[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]why can't the linos take a side on the same side of the pitch...
One of the saddest sights for me in football is seeing a teenage or 20 year old ref -pathetic- play the game you plonkers -they end up growing into Polls and D'Ursos!!!!
Well done. Two late entries for the most idiotic comment of 2010 competition!
Morning all.
I didn't really speak to Mrs D'urso,the phone was on answer mode ! (Not really!!)
192.com ?
Whats that ? (Don't really want to know......).
Myself & (I think) Len Glover aren't slagging the club off "just for the sake of it", we both were told that the game "was DEFINETLY on". If it was the same Lady, She made a mistake. Stu, No, I don't expect Her to "Make things up", but surely, after all the calls made to the Club it might have been an idea from "10-30am" after D'urso arrived, to say something along the lines of "The Ref is here now, and we are pretty sure that the Game will go ahead....I suggest you phone back in a 1/2hour of so". I left Home at 11am because I fancyed a drink in The Lib pre-match. If I was told anything other than "DEFINETLY ON" I might have called the Cab firm and asked/told them to delay the Cab for an hour or so. I know it was MY decision to leave when I did, but I was supplied with some wrong information (rightly or wrongly). Mrs MOG had the right idea: Got up at 10am, looked out the window, declared it looked "Bloody cold" and went back to bed.
haven't read all the posts, but for all the faults of d'urso and co, the club telling supporters it was 'definately on' when they still had hot air blowers on parts of the pitch is wrong.
fao muttley,
just how would the lino's on 1 side tell if the ball was out of play.............
the ref calls it- it's a bodge but fair to both sides- don't blame the ref for that just making the point that everything has to be perfect -you could even have the 4th official not checking offsides but sitting in the middle adjudicating on ins and outs- where theres a will theres a way but you can't be innovative can you -not in football- better to waste thousands and everybodies time instead. I would like to see the attaitude- how can we safely play this game?- hwat do we need to do and ensure both sides sign up to what's agreed.
All the London kick-offs were 1pm on police instructions. Bearing in mind temperatures normally peak in the middle of the day this was actually a good thing, but it happens every year and has done for as long as I can remember. So, no, it wasn't another "mistake" by the club as you seem to want to imply.
The club hasn't "admitted" it was wrong not to warn fans because no one at the club thinks the postponement was justified or ever likely. As soon as it became clear D'Urso perceived a problem it went on the website.
Presumably it's also the club's fault the referee wouldn't make a timely decision. What should we have done about that?
Airman, I remain very grateful and highly impressed by all the efforts put in by club and supporters to try and get the game on. I'm not actually pissed off at all with the club, I'm not blaming them, but there are lessons to be learnt from all of this. The main one is that if we have a had a prolonged spell of very cold weather the pitch is likely to be very cold, and overnight temps of -5 are going to make things dodgy so the ref. needs to be called in early for the pitch inspection. The refs guidelines are that if there is any doubt at all, don't play. The ice on the touchlines gave d'Urso justification for his first decision. I think that this could have been sorted by 13:30, and d'Urso failed to take this opportunity, and for that I think he should be held to account.
Whether the pitch was playable or not, is immaterial - if it was genuinely unplayable in the ref's opinion, then we have to live with that whether we like it or not - as another poster eloquently said on this thread "sh*t happens."
What I do have a problem with is the fact that the referee left it so late before calling it off. Calling a game off an hour before kick off, especially on a day when public transport is limited to say the least, means that people are travelling or have already arrived at the ground. One of my mates was driving up from Suffolk having interrupted his holiday and there must have been many similar wasted journeys. If Mr D'Urso felt that it was unplayable, then he should have called the game off after his first inspection when he arrived at the ground. He has handled this situation very badly with no regard for the travelling public.
[quote][cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]The refs guidelines are that if there is any doubt at all, don't play.[/quote]
Well, assuming that is the guideline, you've hit upon the key problem. Professional football is a business, albeit badly organised and run. It provides entertainment for us, the customers. The safety of the customers and the participants has to be paramount, but after that there has to be a TEAM EFFORT TO ENSURE THE PAID FOR ENTERTAINMENT IS PROVIDED. The club, the supporters, and dont forget the Council came together to ensure the safety of customers was ensured (and BTW to a higher standard than in the part of Europe I live in, even for European ties).The players and their managers had all declared themselves ready to play.
The referee is paid by Football to be part of that team. He should take the attitude that this game really has to go ahead and that to postpone it at this stage is a last resort.If you want to see that approach, I refer you to the televised Ipswich game. That was bad because it implied that the people sitting at home are more important customers than those who turn up. Thats another thing wrong with football.
There needs to be a new mindset based around the acknowledgement that the customer comes first. In that mindset, Andy D'Urso, and not some poor lady on the Charlton switchboard , would be held to account and possible sanction.
But this will only happen when we start behaving like customers, as opposed to little people who meekly accept authority without stopping to question where that authority comes from and whether someone has earned the right to carry it.
Those of you who don't agree with this; did you order your Christmas food online for delivery? What would be your attitude if it didnt arrive because an individual driver unilaterally decided the roads were too dangerous for him to drive on?
Watching the league show last night, they showed the Ipswich game being called off. The pitch looked great, green all over, with very little signs of frost. The ref wasn't happy with one area of the pitch, they tried pouring boiling water on the area. In the end he called if off 2 hours before kick off. On the show, they the football leagues stated that the ref should be at the ground at least 1 1/2 hours before kick off, if the home club have any issues with the pitch, they should request for the ref to show up earlier.
I think it not just a case of the pitch being playable to start, but also a case of being playable to finish. With the temperature dropping from kick off, the pitch including the side lines were always going to get worse.
I have to add my little bit here, that pitch at kick off time was entirely playable, even at 8am a fork slipped easily into the pitch, both managers and sets of players were more than happy to play, the only person who was not happy was one linesman, who from the start was in D"urso's ear wanting the game off, Paddy Powell was beside himself with what went on, as far as he and anybody else was concerned that pitch was playable, as Parky said after, the pitch was in better nick than vs Luton. The blame lies entirely with the officials.
someone mentioned it earlier but if these exact same conditions arrive for the "LIVE SKY" game against swindon next week does anyone really think it would be called off .... not in a million years
As I said before, It was my decision to leave at 11.
I was wrong.
It was someone at the Club who told Me the game was "Definetly On".
She was wrong.
It was D'urso who called the game off.
He (In most peoples opinions) was wrong.
Why does No-One except they are/were Wrong nowadays.....
Its always someone elses fault.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]All the London kick-offs were 1pm on police instructions. Bearing in mind temperatures normally peak in the middle of the day this was actually a good thing, but it happens every year and has done for as long as I can remember. So, no, it wasn't another "mistake" by the club as you seem to want to imply.
The club hasn't "admitted" it was wrong not to warn fans because no one at the club thinks the postponement was justified or ever likely. As soon as it became clear D'Urso perceived a problem it went on the website.
Presumably it's also the club's fault the referee wouldn't make a timely decision. What should we have done about that?
Touchy!
It was a genuine question on the basis that it was clear that had we been given the option to start at 2pm, or even 3pm the club would have had longer with the blowers on the frozen sections of the pitch.
Does that instruction by the police mean that we were not allowed to push the kick off back further than 1:15? If so it does rather restrict the options if the pitch is thawing out but not quickly.
I'm going to ignore your last question as I'm sure you only threw it in there to make me look stupid.
I don't think you need to be so defensive. Sometimes a question is just a question and not a personal attack on you or the club.
Why, as Airman Brown has suggested, may Charlton be in trouble with the F.A. for publicly criticising the decision of Andy D'Urso to call off yesterday's game at such a late stage. With a substantially reduced gate at the rearranged fixture, together with the costs for food, policing and stewarding incurred yesterday, our cash-strapped Club could be out of pocket to something in the region of £50,000, whilst the supporters from both Clubs have in all probability wasted a similar amount, on top of having their Boxing Day ruined.
The "Fans Forum" currently consists of representatives from the various local supporter's groups and their contact details can be found on the Club's Website. There are obviously lessons that can be learned from yesterday's postponement and Airman Brown, in his offocial capacity, has been requested to include this as an Agenda item at the next "Fans Forum Meeting".
Finally, around 50 Charlton fans have already signed a nationwide petition to the Football League calling for the sacking of Andy D'Urso and those who wish to express their dissatisfaction at what happened yesterday, may wish to jopin them on:-
I think the club schould be congratulated for doing everything they could to get the game played - also those brave volunteers who worked so hard.
This is not sour grapes or someone thinking that their team can do no wrong, but the decision of the ref only confirms my belief for some years now, that the referees have a conspiracy against Charlton. We have had some VERY questionable decisions which have gone against us - one of the worst was that match against Fulham when they were given a free kick which resulted in them scoring a goal, when it was clearly our ball.
The fact that there seems to be little or no accountability and no method for questioning the decision of referees is totally wrong in my opinion. If a manager wants to question a ref's decision he is likely to be charged by the FA. When Charlton have tried to appeal against decisions they have had their appeals turned down and a further penalty added for making a 'frivolous' appeal.
Referees need to have more concern about the wider implications of their decisions. Thousands of people had their day ruined yesterday on the whim of one man - if both teams were willing to play then it should have gone ahead. He obviously didn't care that football clubs are struggling these days and to call off a match at such a late stage would have massive financial implications. In August I questioned the need for floodlights in the middle of Summer- the club informed me that it was at the decision of the referee. Although it is only a small cost to the club to use floodlights in August , it is symptomatic of the total lack of consideration by referees for clubs struggling financially.
My step sister was visiting the country from the USA for the first time in many years - her son who has lived in America all his life was desperate to see an English football match. My step-brother had got tickets for all of them to watch the match. One little boy ( like many others) was left very very upset when the game was called off. I hope Andy D'Urso spares a thought for the upset he has caused, though somehow I doubt it.
Positively my last comments on this unless some scandalous misrepresentation of what I have said previously is posted!
My intention has not been to slag off the Club other than to relay the FACTS of my conversation with the commercial centre. The use of the phrase DEFINITELY ON was unfortunate in the extreme when the referee had not yet inspected the pitch and in my opinion it is a shame that fact was not disclosed to telephone enquirers.
That said I, along with others higher up the thread, thank Airman Brown for coming on here and posting as he has. Whether one agrees or disagrees with everything he has said I suspect that there are not many clubs where someone in his position would engage in vigorous debate with disgruntled fans. That says something positive both about the good Airman and our club.
Just a comment on the order in which people were informed of the decison - reading an earlier post, the BBC were told asap (even before the managers!), yet they didn't bother to broadcast the news on BBC Radio London AT ALL. As a result, we drove all the way to the ground. Where did they broadcast it? I will be putting in a complaint to the BBC about this.
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]Just a comment on the order in which people were informed of the decison - reading an earlier post, the BBC were told asap (even before the managers!), yet they didn't bother to broadcast the news on BBC Radio London AT ALL. As a result, we drove all the way to the ground. Where did they broadcast it? I will be putting in a complaint to the BBC about this.
I was on my way to the game and I heard the announcement on BBC London at just after 12noon
Comments
Well done. Two late entries for the most idiotic comment of 2010 competition!
I didn't really speak to Mrs D'urso,the phone was on answer mode ! (Not really!!)
192.com ?
Whats that ? (Don't really want to know......).
Myself & (I think) Len Glover aren't slagging the club off "just for the sake of it", we both were told that the game "was DEFINETLY on". If it was the same Lady, She made a mistake. Stu, No, I don't expect Her to "Make things up", but surely, after all the calls made to the Club it might have been an idea from "10-30am" after D'urso arrived, to say something along the lines of "The Ref is here now, and we are pretty sure that the Game will go ahead....I suggest you phone back in a 1/2hour of so". I left Home at 11am because I fancyed a drink in The Lib pre-match. If I was told anything other than "DEFINETLY ON" I might have called the Cab firm and asked/told them to delay the Cab for an hour or so. I know it was MY decision to leave when I did, but I was supplied with some wrong information (rightly or wrongly). Mrs MOG had the right idea: Got up at 10am, looked out the window, declared it looked "Bloody cold" and went back to bed.
PS. Nice to meet you NLA yesterday.
fao muttley,
just how would the lino's on 1 side tell if the ball was out of play.............
aborts post.
i am just still happy that i know the saints fans were more peeed off than me all that way just to turn around made me happy
As he's in the Far East he won't see this for a while now, but yes he is/was before his work took him overseas.
The club hasn't "admitted" it was wrong not to warn fans because no one at the club thinks the postponement was justified or ever likely. As soon as it became clear D'Urso perceived a problem it went on the website.
Presumably it's also the club's fault the referee wouldn't make a timely decision. What should we have done about that?
What I do have a problem with is the fact that the referee left it so late before calling it off. Calling a game off an hour before kick off, especially on a day when public transport is limited to say the least, means that people are travelling or have already arrived at the ground. One of my mates was driving up from Suffolk having interrupted his holiday and there must have been many similar wasted journeys. If Mr D'Urso felt that it was unplayable, then he should have called the game off after his first inspection when he arrived at the ground. He has handled this situation very badly with no regard for the travelling public.
Well, assuming that is the guideline, you've hit upon the key problem. Professional football is a business, albeit badly organised and run. It provides entertainment for us, the customers. The safety of the customers and the participants has to be paramount, but after that there has to be a TEAM EFFORT TO ENSURE THE PAID FOR ENTERTAINMENT IS PROVIDED. The club, the supporters, and dont forget the Council came together to ensure the safety of customers was ensured (and BTW to a higher standard than in the part of Europe I live in, even for European ties).The players and their managers had all declared themselves ready to play.
The referee is paid by Football to be part of that team. He should take the attitude that this game really has to go ahead and that to postpone it at this stage is a last resort.If you want to see that approach, I refer you to the televised Ipswich game. That was bad because it implied that the people sitting at home are more important customers than those who turn up. Thats another thing wrong with football.
There needs to be a new mindset based around the acknowledgement that the customer comes first. In that mindset, Andy D'Urso, and not some poor lady on the Charlton switchboard , would be held to account and possible sanction.
But this will only happen when we start behaving like customers, as opposed to little people who meekly accept authority without stopping to question where that authority comes from and whether someone has earned the right to carry it.
Those of you who don't agree with this; did you order your Christmas food online for delivery? What would be your attitude if it didnt arrive because an individual driver unilaterally decided the roads were too dangerous for him to drive on?
I think it not just a case of the pitch being playable to start, but also a case of being playable to finish. With the temperature dropping from kick off, the pitch including the side lines were always going to get worse.
The blame lies entirely with the officials.
I was wrong.
It was someone at the Club who told Me the game was "Definetly On".
She was wrong.
It was D'urso who called the game off.
He (In most peoples opinions) was wrong.
Why does No-One except they are/were Wrong nowadays.....
Its always someone elses fault.
totally agree , something i don't have to deal with myself but my wife has a problem understanding this concept
Touchy!
It was a genuine question on the basis that it was clear that had we been given the option to start at 2pm, or even 3pm the club would have had longer with the blowers on the frozen sections of the pitch.
Does that instruction by the police mean that we were not allowed to push the kick off back further than 1:15? If so it does rather restrict the options if the pitch is thawing out but not quickly.
I'm going to ignore your last question as I'm sure you only threw it in there to make me look stupid.
I don't think you need to be so defensive. Sometimes a question is just a question and not a personal attack on you or the club.
The "Fans Forum" currently consists of representatives from the various local supporter's groups and their contact details can be found on the Club's Website. There are obviously lessons that can be learned from yesterday's postponement and Airman Brown, in his offocial capacity, has been requested to include this as an Agenda item at the next "Fans Forum Meeting".
Finally, around 50 Charlton fans have already signed a nationwide petition to the Football League calling for the sacking of Andy D'Urso and those who wish to express their dissatisfaction at what happened yesterday, may wish to jopin them on:-
www.petitiononline.com/swfc08/petition.html
This is not sour grapes or someone thinking that their team can do no wrong, but the decision of the ref only confirms my belief for some years now, that the referees have a conspiracy against Charlton. We have had some VERY questionable decisions which have gone against us - one of the worst was that match against Fulham when they were given a free kick which resulted in them scoring a goal, when it was clearly our ball.
The fact that there seems to be little or no accountability and no method for questioning the decision of referees is totally wrong in my opinion. If a manager wants to question a ref's decision he is likely to be charged by the FA. When Charlton have tried to appeal against decisions they have had their appeals turned down and a further penalty added for making a 'frivolous' appeal.
Referees need to have more concern about the wider implications of their decisions. Thousands of people had their day ruined yesterday on the whim of one man - if both teams were willing to play then it should have gone ahead. He obviously didn't care that football clubs are struggling these days and to call off a match at such a late stage would have massive financial implications. In August I questioned the need for floodlights in the middle of Summer- the club informed me that it was at the decision of the referee. Although it is only a small cost to the club to use floodlights in August , it is symptomatic of the total lack of consideration by referees for clubs struggling financially.
My step sister was visiting the country from the USA for the first time in many years - her son who has lived in America all his life was desperate to see an English football match. My step-brother had got tickets for all of them to watch the match. One little boy ( like many others) was left very very upset when the game was called off. I hope Andy D'Urso spares a thought for the upset he has caused, though somehow I doubt it.
My intention has not been to slag off the Club other than to relay the FACTS of my conversation with the commercial centre. The use of the phrase DEFINITELY ON was unfortunate in the extreme when the referee had not yet inspected the pitch and in my opinion it is a shame that fact was not disclosed to telephone enquirers.
That said I, along with others higher up the thread, thank Airman Brown for coming on here and posting as he has. Whether one agrees or disagrees with everything he has said I suspect that there are not many clubs where someone in his position would engage in vigorous debate with disgruntled fans. That says something positive both about the good Airman and our club.
I was on my way to the game and I heard the announcement on BBC London at just after 12noon