Very harsh to criticise Racon, especially if you were not even at the game. I think he has actually been one of our best players this season, forming a good partnership with Semedo.
Francis, Doc and Benson have all been worse than Racon this year.
Well, Racon worked his socks off yesterday at Argyle, and played an integral part in our domination of the secondhalf, linking play and keeping moves flowing. Amongst being involved in other penetrating moves, he also got into the box and squared a great ball that Martin should have scored from.
I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes. Definitely a very decent performance from Racon.
So why the criticsm? Perhaps it's best not to rely on barely interested Radio commentators for facts.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]0.05% automatic promotion 49.5% play offs 50% the chance for the apologists to find some new excuses for our most shameful period in our history
what about the other 0.45%
ha ha good spot ............ well the other 0.45% is for somewhere we haven't been before but may give us a chance to visit some new grounds and have a better chance of winning games ..............................
All the goals we've conceded, where was Racon when the goals went in against us? Ever since Brazil 94 and France 98 you need two positionally reliable central midfielders, absolutely essential if your full back and wingers are offensively minded; which ours are. So yes I would prefer McCormack to Racon as in the two matches I've seen him play he's been positionally relibale and put in more block tackles in those games than I've seen Racon do in his whole Charlton career; personally I'd prefer Jackson as he's positionally reliable, a better passer than Racon, a better tackler, a better header and scores more goals.
If people don't agree with my opinion that's fine. But very few people can say to me honestly that Racon doesn't go missing in the vast majority of games he plays in. Yet they often give him 7.5 for being pretty on the ball for about five mins total every match. Whilst every match I see Semedo, whether he's having a good match or not he's busting a gut all 90 mins.
For their second goal yesterday Semedo attempted a tackle the wrong side of goal. The Plymouth player came inside and had all the time in the world to run on and pick a shot. Players have to defend in two's. If the Plymouth player was pushed inside by Semedo's poor harrying tackle, where the hell was Racon? There was three offenisve Plymouth players completely on their own, with only Martin trying to run back. What a joke. This happens time after time in a game. I just can't believe Parky and others don't see it. You have to be tight away from home, and Racon ain't ever defensively tight.
Please tell me for all Racon's poor defensive play, how many goals has he scored and how many assists?
4 goals in 68 league appearances, and 5 assists in 68 league appearances.
I agree Francis has been worse than Racon, but he's only a few games into his Charlton career. Also in a division where there is a dirth of decent, lively wingers your right full back does not set the tone of your game. Your central midfield does. Indeed you can get promoted out of this div with average-shit fb's, just look at Millwall. You can't get out of this div without effective and reliable central midfielders.
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]"Finallly, a plea to all Charlton Lifers : can we please cut out smug, self-serving phrases such as ''the Parky haters will be kicking themselves''? (I'm not going to name the poster, but you will all have read the comment higher up this thread...)
Same goes the other way too can we cut the smug "parky supporters justify this and that"
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]So Racon is this week's boo boy.
He has to be - Francis wasn't playing and it would be mean to boo him as he becomes a dad, Benson scored two goals (how unreasonable), Martin played well, Doherty redeemed himself (after being described by the commentary as a nuisance in both boxes - to Charlton). It seems there is an unwritten rule of CL win, lose or draw there must be a player to focus on and be slagged off.
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]"Finallly, a plea to all Charlton Lifers : can we please cut out smug, self-serving phrases such as ''the Parky haters will be kicking themselves''? (I'm not going to name the poster, but you will all have read the comment higher up this thread...)
Same goes the other way too can we cut the smug "parky supporters justify this and that"
With respect, Dazzler, I think you've missed the point.
The objection was not to anybody speaking up or against Parky, or justifying his position or making a case for him to go.
This is a discussion board, for heaven's sake, so of course people can ask supporters of the manager to justify why he's the right man for the job.
The objection was very specifically to claims that some Charlton supporters want us to lose because they put some other agenda, such as dislike of the manager, above the success of the team.
As said last night, the suggestion that any Charlton Lifer wanted our team to lose yesterday is beneath contempt.
So sorry, it is not a case of ''same goes the other way'' - unless those who want Parky out are accusing his more vocal champions of wanting us to lose?
You've confused an accusation that some Charlton Lifers want our team to lose with a quite legitimate debate about Parky's strengths and weaknesses as a manager.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]
For their second goal yesterday Semedo attempted a tackle the wrong side of goal. The Plymouth player came inside and had all the time in the world to run on and pick a shot. Players have to defend in two's. If the Plymouth player was pushed inside by Semedo's poor harrying tackle, where the hell was Racon? There was three offenisve Plymouth players completely on their own, with only Martin trying to run back. What a joke. This happens time after time in a game. I just can't believe Parky and others don't see it. You have to be tight away from home, and Racon ain't ever defensively tight.
Racon made the first tackle in that phase of play, the ball breaks to Semedo who allows himself to be too easily muscled off the ball and the bloke turns and shoots into the top corner from 30 yards - how the hell is that Racon's fault?
I'd be more critical of Jackson who left his position on the post and allowed BWP's shot in for the first goal - not exactly great 'positional discipline' that.
I was at the game yesterday. I thought both teams were poor in the first half, no chances were being created. Charlton came out in the second half and absolutey dominated Plymouth, Reidy and Martin were running circles around them! It was a disgrace what the Plymouth players were doing to Reid, they were kicking the hell out of him. Anyway we deserved to be in the lead but we kept hitting the post or our shots were being blocked all the time. Unfortunatly Plymouth took the lead again undeservedly. We didn't give up though, we kept going for them and in the last minute, i thought he wasn't going to get it but luckily Doherty reached to the ball with his head and knocked it down to Paul Benson to score an equaliser and send the Charlton supporters ecstatic. Overall a good performance and definitely the best i've seen so far this season.
[cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]"Finallly, a plea to all Charlton Lifers : can we please cut out smug, self-serving phrases such as ''the Parky haters will be kicking themselves''? (I'm not going to name the poster, but you will all have read the comment higher up this thread...)
Same goes the other way too can we cut the smug "parky supporters justify this and that"
With respect, Dazzler, I think you've missed the point.
The objection was not to anybody speaking up or against Parky, or justifying his position or making a case for him to go.
This is a discussion board, for heaven's sake, so of course people can ask supporters of the manager to justify why he's the right man for the job.
The objection was very specifically to claims that some Charlton supporters want us to lose because they put some other agenda, such as dislike of the manager, above the success of the team.
As said last night, the suggestion that any Charlton Lifer wanted our team to lose yesterday is beneath contempt.
So sorry, it is not a case of ''same goes the other way'' - unless those who want Parky out are accusing his more vocal champions of wanting us to lose?
You've confused an accusation that some Charlton Lifers want our team to lose with a quite legitimate debate about Parky's strengths and weaknesses as a manager.
Except the post you are citing doesn't say that some Lifers want our team to lose. You may have decide to read it that way but that is not what he said.
What CAFC-SE7 said was "The Parky haters will be kicking themselves though, they thought they had their chance!"
I read that as saying the Parky haters thought that at 1- 2 they would have more stones to throw at the manager but that chance was taken away. Hence Dazzlers quite reasonable request.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving
What CAFC-SE7 said was "The Parky haters will be kicking themselves though, they thought they had their chance!"
Exactly. Far from ''kicking themselves'' I do not believe there is any CAFC supporter who did not share in the joy when we equalised, and to suggest otherwise is scurrilous.
I hope now he's had time to reflect on his rash comment, CAFC-SE7 will reconsider what he said.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]you need to read some other sites where so called "fans" have been wishing that we lose the next five games so that parky is forced out.
For the sake of my sanity, I'd really rather not!
I would suggest that anyone who wants Charlton to lose our next five matches should go and follow Millwall, where they will clearly feel more at home.
We will have to disagree on the ''validity'' of Dazzler's point. We are a discussion board, after all, and those who want Parky out surely have every right to ask his defenders to justify his retention. Just as those who want him to stay have a right to ask those who want him out to say who they would replace him with. I agree we should be able to have a grown-up discussion about it without being smug or indulging in playground scrapping, though.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]you need to read some other sites where so called "fans" have been wishing that we lose the next five games so that parky is forced out.
For the sake of my sanity, I'd really rather not!
I would suggest that anyone who wants Charlton to lose our next five matches should go and follow Millwall, where they will clearly feel more at home.
We will have to disagree on the ''validity'' of Dazzler's point. We are a discussion board, after all, and those who want Parky out surely have every right to ask his defenders to justify his retention. Just as those who want him to stay have a right to ask those who want him out to say who they would replace him with. I agree we should be able to have a grown-up discussion about it without being smug or indulging in playground scrapping, though.
my single point was dont snipe at one another whether Optimist, realist or pessimist! that is all.
I may have criticisms but they are constructive. I as an individual think that Parky did amazingly well last season, with a squad that was still unbalanced from Pardew. This season I look at the squad and actually think it could be better than last years. Especially during the winter months, in which we faltered last season. Everyone must now know my oppinion on our central midfield.
Having said all this, barring the last champ 1/2 season, Parky's done a bloody amazing job. Who can put a clearly logical debate together to say that another manager could do a better job? Adkins was one of the only managers I wanted but we couldn't even have afforded his sign on fee, let alone a new budget to sign players. I am fully behind Parky.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]I may have criticisms but they are constructive. I as an individual think that Parky did amazingly well last season, with a squad that was still unbalanced from Pardew. This season I look at the squad and actually think it could be better than last years. Especially during the winter months, in which we faltered last season. Everyone must now know my oppinion on our central midfield.
Having said all this, barring the last champ 1/2 season, Parky's done a bloody amazing job. Who can put a clearly logical debate together to say that another manager could do a better job? Adkins was one of the only managers I wanted but we couldn't even have afforded his sign on fee, let alone a new budget to sign players. I am fully behind Parky.
Dazzler said
"my single point was dont snipe at one another whether Optimist, realist or pessimist! that is all."
Fair enough but why after plymouth went 2-1 up did you post "LMFAO" in the match thread , I couldn't see any particular comments that were too funny around that moment ......
That's not a foul. Semedo's on the wrong side of the Plymouth player, the Plymouth players trying to shield the ball. Semedo just runs into the Plymouth's players leg, as the Pymouth player's setting himself. As always Semedo is one of the only midfielders lively to breakdown ball, Semedo's poor attempt at a tackle I absolutely applaud as he's busting a gut. I personally do not see this as a foul.
However you see it one tackle by a Plymouth player took one of our players out. Then Plymouth had three players running positively just in front of the D in one of the most dangerous areas, with no Charlton player anywhere near them. Parky can gripe about the foul, but the analysis must be why was his central midfield woefully out of position at 1-1?
Poor start again. Defended poorly against the oppo set plays in the first half, (Peter Reid is obviously using his recent experience at Stoke with Pulis, to adopt a similar style, long throws, long balls into the corners etc.), but we would have known about their strength at set plays as most clubs cover their future opponents at least twice prior to each fixture. So just panicky defending.
After equalising with a soft goal against the run of play, we battered them. Reid ran riot on the left, got both players on that side booked and the right back substituted, as neither could handle him. Martin was combining with Dailley on the right, and going past the full back on that side, and but for an excellent save from Martin, a rebound off the post and numerous missed half-chances, we would have taken all three points.
Agree with Colin Tat, we have a hole in the middle of midfield whenever the opposition move forward. With Semedo deep sheilding the centre backs, Racon is often caught the wrong side of the ball after wandering into attacking areas. Plymouth played through that area with two simple passes to eliminate Semedo in 2 v 1 situations. Their second goal - a cracking shot - came from that area.
Dailley shored-up the right back area, where Francis was mullered last week at Brentford. A class act at this level.
Benson - 2 goals. Can't argue with that, but his overall contribution is still weak. Perhaps he's still adjusting to a higher level of football.
A better start against Brighton is paramount. They would have watched Saturday's game and will double-up on Reid. But Brighton are more of a football side than previous opposition, which should suit us. Its about time we played a consistent 90 minutes, not just in periods of the game. Looking forward to seeing if they are in a false position, as I suspect they are.
Haven't had time to read up much on the game but Benson scoring twice is a big bonus and although not fantastic, 2-2 away to plymouth, witha last minute equaliser and dominating for long periods sounds promising. The test will come on Saturday though and if we can put in a good cohesive performance and a win against Brighton (more importantly a good home performance and a win), then we will hopefully be starting to see some progress. If Anyinsah is coming back to fitness as well, then that could be a big plus from what i've seen so far. Saturday could bea pivotal game in our season i reckon and i think we'll know a lot about where we're headed based on what happens. Looking forward to it. Come on Charlton.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]That's not a foul. Semedo's on the wrong side of the Plymouth player, the Plymouth players trying to shield the ball. Semedo just runs into the Plymouth's players leg, as the Pymouth player's setting himself. As always Semedo is one of the only midfielders lively to breakdown ball, Semedo's poor attempt at a tackle I absolutely applaud as he's busting a gut. I personally do not see this as a foul.
However you see it one tackle by a Plymouth player took one of our players out. Then Plymouth had three players running positively just in front of the D in one of the most dangerous areas, with no Charlton player anywhere near them. Parky can gripe about the foul, but the analysis must be why was his central midfield woefully out of position at 1-1?
How is the centre of midfield woefully out of position? Racon makes a challenge as Plymouth are attacking down their right(ish), Semedo is to his right. Racon doesn't manage to win back possession cleanly, but he halts the attack and the ball breaks towards Semedo. You can see Racon is expecting Semedo to win the ball and is readying himself to get involved in a break. Semedo fails to win the ball and the Plymouth player turns, takes two paces and lashes it in - you make it sound like 3 plymouth players were allowed to run 20/30 yards unchallenged through the middle of the pitch, when in reality there's about 3 seconds between Racon's initial tackle and the ball hitting the back of the net. As both Racon and Semedo are in position to challenge for the ball in that short period I would argue they are both positioned exactly where they should be. Plymouth just got the run of the ball on that occasion (aided by a weak challenge by Jose) and then also get fortunate with the kind of shot that 80% of the time isn't even on target - them's the breaks sometimes.
Maybe Racon could have anticipated better and headed back towards goal after his initial tackle, but I don't think he had time to get between the shot and the goal and, frankly, Racon continually get pelters for not doing enough in the way of goals and assists and the only way he's going to answer those critics is to try and take up more and better offensive positions, which he was trying to by starting to move forwards in anticpation of a break away.
I'll happily take the odd goal against like this one if it means we're trying to play on the front foot, even away from home.
Comments
Francis, Doc and Benson have all been worse than Racon this year.
Well, Racon worked his socks off yesterday at Argyle, and played an integral part in our domination of the secondhalf, linking play and keeping moves flowing. Amongst being involved in other penetrating moves, he also got into the box and squared a great ball that Martin should have scored from.
I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes. Definitely a very decent performance from Racon.
So why the criticsm? Perhaps it's best not to rely on barely interested Radio commentators for facts.
ha ha good spot ............ well the other 0.45% is for somewhere we haven't been before but may give us a chance to visit some new grounds and have a better chance of winning games ..............................
If people don't agree with my opinion that's fine. But very few people can say to me honestly that Racon doesn't go missing in the vast majority of games he plays in. Yet they often give him 7.5 for being pretty on the ball for about five mins total every match. Whilst every match I see Semedo, whether he's having a good match or not he's busting a gut all 90 mins.
For their second goal yesterday Semedo attempted a tackle the wrong side of goal. The Plymouth player came inside and had all the time in the world to run on and pick a shot. Players have to defend in two's. If the Plymouth player was pushed inside by Semedo's poor harrying tackle, where the hell was Racon? There was three offenisve Plymouth players completely on their own, with only Martin trying to run back. What a joke. This happens time after time in a game. I just can't believe Parky and others don't see it. You have to be tight away from home, and Racon ain't ever defensively tight.
Please tell me for all Racon's poor defensive play, how many goals has he scored and how many assists?
4 goals in 68 league appearances, and 5 assists in 68 league appearances.
You keep telling yourself that.
exactly
He has to be - Francis wasn't playing and it would be mean to boo him as he becomes a dad, Benson scored two goals (how unreasonable), Martin played well, Doherty redeemed himself (after being described by the commentary as a nuisance in both boxes - to Charlton). It seems there is an unwritten rule of CL win, lose or draw there must be a player to focus on and be slagged off.
With respect, Dazzler, I think you've missed the point.
The objection was not to anybody speaking up or against Parky, or justifying his position or making a case for him to go.
This is a discussion board, for heaven's sake, so of course people can ask supporters of the manager to justify why he's the right man for the job.
The objection was very specifically to claims that some Charlton supporters want us to lose because they put some other agenda, such as dislike of the manager, above the success of the team.
As said last night, the suggestion that any Charlton Lifer wanted our team to lose yesterday is beneath contempt.
So sorry, it is not a case of ''same goes the other way'' - unless those who want Parky out are accusing his more vocal champions of wanting us to lose?
You've confused an accusation that some Charlton Lifers want our team to lose with a quite legitimate debate about Parky's strengths and weaknesses as a manager.
Racon made the first tackle in that phase of play, the ball breaks to Semedo who allows himself to be too easily muscled off the ball and the bloke turns and shoots into the top corner from 30 yards - how the hell is that Racon's fault?
I'd be more critical of Jackson who left his position on the post and allowed BWP's shot in for the first goal - not exactly great 'positional discipline' that.
Except the post you are citing doesn't say that some Lifers want our team to lose. You may have decide to read it that way but that is not what he said.
What CAFC-SE7 said was "The Parky haters will be kicking themselves though, they thought they had their chance!"
I read that as saying the Parky haters thought that at 1- 2 they would have more stones to throw at the manager but that chance was taken away. Hence Dazzlers quite reasonable request.
Exactly. Far from ''kicking themselves'' I do not believe there is any CAFC supporter who did not share in the joy when we equalised, and to suggest otherwise is scurrilous.
I hope now he's had time to reflect on his rash comment, CAFC-SE7 will reconsider what he said.
A moronic, attention seeking and very small minority but a reality.
I still don't read CAFC_SE7 the way you do but he can speak from himself.
Dazzlers point is still valid.
For the sake of my sanity, I'd really rather not!
I would suggest that anyone who wants Charlton to lose our next five matches should go and follow Millwall, where they will clearly feel more at home.
We will have to disagree on the ''validity'' of Dazzler's point. We are a discussion board, after all, and those who want Parky out surely have every right to ask his defenders to justify his retention. Just as those who want him to stay have a right to ask those who want him out to say who they would replace him with. I agree we should be able to have a grown-up discussion about it without being smug or indulging in playground scrapping, though.
Having said all this, barring the last champ 1/2 season, Parky's done a bloody amazing job. Who can put a clearly logical debate together to say that another manager could do a better job? Adkins was one of the only managers I wanted but we couldn't even have afforded his sign on fee, let alone a new budget to sign players. I am fully behind Parky.
Agree with pretty much all of that.
"my single point was dont snipe at one another whether Optimist, realist or pessimist! that is all."
Fair enough but why after plymouth went 2-1 up did you post "LMFAO" in the match thread , I couldn't see any particular comments that were too funny around that moment ......
Clear foul on Semedo on build up to their 2nd
However you see it one tackle by a Plymouth player took one of our players out. Then Plymouth had three players running positively just in front of the D in one of the most dangerous areas, with no Charlton player anywhere near them. Parky can gripe about the foul, but the analysis must be why was his central midfield woefully out of position at 1-1?
After equalising with a soft goal against the run of play, we battered them. Reid ran riot on the left, got both players on that side booked and the right back substituted, as neither could handle him. Martin was combining with Dailley on the right, and going past the full back on that side, and but for an excellent save from Martin, a rebound off the post and numerous missed half-chances, we would have taken all three points.
Agree with Colin Tat, we have a hole in the middle of midfield whenever the opposition move forward. With Semedo deep sheilding the centre backs, Racon is often caught the wrong side of the ball after wandering into attacking areas. Plymouth played through that area with two simple passes to eliminate Semedo in 2 v 1 situations. Their second goal - a cracking shot - came from that area.
Dailley shored-up the right back area, where Francis was mullered last week at Brentford. A class act at this level.
Benson - 2 goals. Can't argue with that, but his overall contribution is still weak. Perhaps he's still adjusting to a higher level of football.
A better start against Brighton is paramount. They would have watched Saturday's game and will double-up on Reid. But Brighton are more of a football side than previous opposition, which should suit us. Its about time we played a consistent 90 minutes, not just in periods of the game. Looking forward to seeing if they are in a false position, as I suspect they are.
How is the centre of midfield woefully out of position? Racon makes a challenge as Plymouth are attacking down their right(ish), Semedo is to his right. Racon doesn't manage to win back possession cleanly, but he halts the attack and the ball breaks towards Semedo. You can see Racon is expecting Semedo to win the ball and is readying himself to get involved in a break. Semedo fails to win the ball and the Plymouth player turns, takes two paces and lashes it in - you make it sound like 3 plymouth players were allowed to run 20/30 yards unchallenged through the middle of the pitch, when in reality there's about 3 seconds between Racon's initial tackle and the ball hitting the back of the net. As both Racon and Semedo are in position to challenge for the ball in that short period I would argue they are both positioned exactly where they should be. Plymouth just got the run of the ball on that occasion (aided by a weak challenge by Jose) and then also get fortunate with the kind of shot that 80% of the time isn't even on target - them's the breaks sometimes.
Maybe Racon could have anticipated better and headed back towards goal after his initial tackle, but I don't think he had time to get between the shot and the goal and, frankly, Racon continually get pelters for not doing enough in the way of goals and assists and the only way he's going to answer those critics is to try and take up more and better offensive positions, which he was trying to by starting to move forwards in anticpation of a break away.
I'll happily take the odd goal against like this one if it means we're trying to play on the front foot, even away from home.