[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]I don't think it's a case of having balls, more that clear and affordable solutions are not immediately apparent.
Exactly that. Murray doesn't want to make things even worse. Can we afford a promising manager at a smaller club, and could they step up to managing a bigger club with real pressure and expectations. Managers out of work, why aren't they in a job at the moment? Take a chance on Powell or someone else with no experience. Might be another Poyet, but could be another Les Reed.
All questions Murray would need to answer. There's probably an ideal manager out there, but who is he? Don't want another Dowie or Pardew who can talk about what they're going to do, but can't actually do it.
If Parky is sacked we should really have a complete clear out. So that means Kinsella, Breacker, Phil Chapple, maybe even Holohan and Woodman all being sacked and paid off as well. At the very least. There might be other staff a new manager doesn't want.
If we lose the next 2 then PP could/ should really be walking.
The atmosphere vs. Brighton is going to be so painful, especially when they absolutely run rings around us. We should all be looking forward to this game with optimism but can anyone see anything other than a big turd on our faces?
After these 2 games, if we have lost both or scraped a point or two and played the same awful football, PP has to be honest and walk. I have stuck by him last season and this season, trying to see a long term vision, how stupid was I?
There is no sign of anything coming together, growing or blossoming; no hope whatsoever. The more games that are being played, the more our players are looking like they don't know each others strengths, movements and weaknesses.
We are weak/predictable and sloppy in defence, midfield and attack. When the whole team is playing that badly over (pretty much) 4 seasons then it is time to look at the set-up/coaching/training of these players, who, on paper are capable of far more than it is achieving.
The question now is are they being coached correctly and played to their strengths, I don't think so: PP, Breaker and Kinsella are not capable of doing it, I am now convinced of this. I see the rest of this season as a pointless exercise unless something changes immediately.
I feel sorry for RM and don't really know what he can do. We won't go up this season and he stands to lose £4 million each year. Seems an impossible situation but i think the next month will see the performances only getting worse as the 'new squad' enthusiasm dwindles and the lack of quality gets exposed even more. I honestly think that if we bring in two quality midfield players, we would stand a decent chance of promotion. We don't have any money so how do we do that? and who are the 2 midfield players?
You cant blame Benson for the first half as we never looked like geting the ball anywhere near him, but Jesus the guy has the pace of a snail and a very old snail at that.
What has happened to Smedo ? he just dosnt look the same player and he looks heavy.
There is truely something wrong within the club. Its been ages since we seem to get "up" for a game. the fitness seems poor.
As for Daily saying Parky is the dogs bollox well maybe he can see a job in the offing when Parky goes.
I dont think the squad is that bad (most on here say the same) therefore it has to be the tactics /motivation---its Parky (and his staff). I just dont see what we do ?
as Leroy and others have said "if not Parky then who?" -- i have no clue. I think that the issues are deeper seated.
How long though do we sit/stand and wait for it to get better ? how long before the wheels fall off our attendances.
Maybe Phil Chapple will pull another rabbit out of his scouting hat? Have Southend, Dagenham or Norwich got any quality midfielders hanging about? - or any other club in the Essex / East Anglian hotbed that has proved so fruitful for us?
Is it just me - but isn't there a lot of over-reaction on here at the moment. I didn't go Saturday and sat at home pressing F5 on here occasionally to follow what was happening. By half-time I was near to stringing myself up....yes it was apparently pretty bad and no team spirit, urgency or interest. But I've since watched the "highlights" and read other - less subjective (biased) reports and although we didn't turn up in the first half - we improved a lot in the second. A few lucky bounces and we could've been right back in it. Still think its far too early with this new bunch of players....I'm not Parky's No.1 fan by a long way - but I would say give it until Christmas to judge results. If we are not in the top 10 at Christmas then it might be time to react - certainly not now - and as everyone knows - we are hardly in a position to go out and hire some sort of Manager-Saviour (if one exists).... Wish people would cool down a bit and give the team a bit more time. Also wonder what sort of impact it had on the team with Parkinson up in the stands.
Didn't go Saturday either but barring the last 15 minutes at Orient and the first 25 minutes against Dagenham, we've been utter tripe all season but i don't think it's impossible to turn it around. Reid is the best winger we've had down there for a while and i'm sure if we had a decent central midfield to add to what we have elsewhere, we would be in with a chance of going up because the division seems quite weak this year. Save any money we have for bringing in two midfield loan players in the January window would be my solution and offload a couple of centre halves and one of our target men if need be.
[quote][cite]Posted By: cafc-west[/cite]Is it just me - but isn't there a lot of over-reaction on here at the moment. I didn't go Saturday and sat at home pressing F5 on here occasionally to follow what was happening. By half-time I was near to stringing myself up....yes it was apparently pretty bad and no team spirit, urgency or interest. But I've since watched the "highlights" and read other - less subjective (biased) reports and although we didn't turn up in the first half - we improved a lot in the second. A few lucky bounces and we could've been right back in it. Still think its far too early with this new bunch of players....I'm not Parky's No.1 fan by a long way - but I would say give it until Christmas to judge results. If we are not in the top 10 at Christmas then it might be time to react - certainly not now - and as everyone knows - we are hardly in a position to go out and hire some sort of Manager-Saviour (if one exists).... Wish people would cool down a bit and give the team a bit more time. Also wonder what sort of impact it had on the team with Parkinson up in the stands.[/quote]
The first line of your post sums it up really.............you didn't go so hardly in the frame to comment. Not sure how many games you've been to, but having only missed the Huddersfield game I can safely say this team is the worse Charlton team I've seen over the 35 years that I have been sipporting them.............even the team in the early 80's containing the likes of Billy Lansdowne, Phil ferns, Kevin Smith etc had goals in them.
If it wasn;t for the fact that Lee Hughes had an off day and that MK Dons don't have a striker, then we would be looking at the bottom 6.
I am giving Parky 6 weeks to turn it around, If, by the start of Dec we are still not gelling, then it is time for him to go.
[cite]Posted By: cafc-west[/cite]Is it just me - but isn't there a lot of over-reaction on here at the moment. I didn't go Saturday and sat at home pressing F5 on here occasionally to follow what was happening. By half-time I was near to stringing myself up....yes it was apparently pretty bad and no team spirit, urgency or interest. But I've since watched the "highlights" and read other - less subjective (biased) reports and although we didn't turn up in the first half - we improved a lot in the second. A few lucky bounces and we could've been right back in it. Still think its far too early with this new bunch of players....I'm not Parky's No.1 fan by a long way - but I would say give it until Christmas to judge results. If we are not in the top 10 at Christmas then it might be time to react - certainly not now - and as everyone knows - we are hardly in a position to go out and hire some sort of Manager-Saviour (if one exists).... Wish people would cool down a bit and give the team a bit more time. Also wonder what sort of impact it had on the team with Parkinson up in the stands.
No over-reaction mate, they were truly shite for large periods, plain & simple!
We would all want it to work out with Parkinson, but it's hard to picture any improvement when we have gone downhill since the start of the season. There is most definitely something lacking tactically, & it seems the heart in the side is beating extremely erratically, especially when you see such a lack of effort, before & after the 1st goal & especially after the 2nd goal went in.
After the 1st, we should have rolled our sleeves up, but it was same ol', same ol', & that led to an easy number 2. This is EXTREMELY disappointing & really disrespectful to us that went, & made the effort on such a grim day.
I'll give 'em a chance, but not for much longer if that's all we are gonna get.
[cite]Posted By: cafc-west[/cite]Also wonder what sort of impact it had on the team with Parkinson up in the stands.
None, he's not exactly an animated interactive figure when he is on the bench is he?
Why do you think he was up in the stands in the first place?
For moaning to the ref to much at half time and after the game. I was refering to his style towards the team during the game. He mostly sits/stands quietly while Kins does the vast majority of the talking and gesturing.Wasn't having a go just stating the way it is.
Hold on Parky fans saying what else can we do as we've got no money etc etc - our board gave him an EXTENDED CONTRACT.
WHY!??!? If we hadn't done, we could have got rid of him earlier.
It's been 7 years and we get worse with each season and nothing will change that until we bring in a manager with passion and who can inspire confidence and actually outhink tactically the opposition and motivate a half decent squad.
Until such time as we do, we'll finish bottom half of the table - the football this year has been the worst I've ever seen - albeit in the 27 years I've been going to games!!!
Why so much talk about passion? Parky's weakness isn't a lack of passion. He clearly cares about the club, Murray called him the hardest working manager he's had, he got sent the stands the other day after getting frustrated with the ref.
Unless by passion people mean someone who isn't seen as a "nice guy" and shouts a lot?
Someone like Martin Allen might shout and scream more than Parky, but would he be an improvement tactically?
When it comes to players showing passion, could even argue some players aren't relaxed and are trying too hard. This season we've given away a lot of fouls. Could that partly be down to some players trying too hard and fouling when they should be more disciplined?
I don't think we have a dirty team but the stats are there to see, a few weeks ago we had given away more fouls than any other club in the league.
You are spot on Scoham, there is no lack of passion from the management or the players. We just have an average division 1 set of players playing in , yes that's right, division 1. Therefore we are going to win some games and we are going to lose some games. That is football. All this whinging just because we lost a game is not going to change anything.
I thought that we were very poor in the 1st half but much, much better in the 2nd. The 3 subs all made a big difference and I was particularly impressed with Abbott, who totally unsettled their central defenders. We could easily have drawn, or even won ,the game with the chances we had in the 2nd half. But we didn't take them and so we lost.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]You are spot on Scoham, there is no lack of passion from the management or the players. We just have an average division 1 set of players playing in , yes that's right, division 1. Therefore we are going to win some games and we are going to lose some games. That is football. All this whinging just because we lost a game is not going to change anything.
I thought that we were very poor in the 1st half but much, much better in the 2nd. The 3 subs all made a big difference and I was particularly impressed with Abbott, who totally unsettled their central defenders. We could easily have drawn, or even won ,the game with the chances we had in the 2nd half. But we didn't take them and so we lost.
It's not only whether we win or lose though... it has been the manner in which we have done so. I can take losing all day long as a Charlton fan, BUT, I cannot accept these dire performances season after season (and with new players now). So, to me, this pattern evolving means the management/coaching set-up now needs to be addressed immediately because it IS getting worse. You have to have a cut-off point somewhere along the line!
The wins we have hardly deserved, lucky to take 1 point let alone 3 in most of our wins.
When we have drawn or lost we have (pretty much) played dismally for 50 to 75% of the game, against lower league opposition too.
The players do not seem at all confident, they seem unmotivated for long periods of a game, they show no leadership or team awareness, they do not seem to understand their roles (they are always out of position). Most teams have new lineups at the start of the season so we can't keep using that excuse I'm afraid.
What has happened to Semedo is he does all the bloody work in the middle for 90 mins. Two best chances in first 45 against MK Dons were Semedo busting a gut, yet it was him busting a gut to tackle in our final third all match. On the video for Brentford it's him busting a gut to close breakdown ball; whilst he's pretty piss poor closing down breakdown ball around the D, unlike in open play now, he try's bloody hard to do it.
Hear I go again..... In four seasons when was the last time you saw Racon winning breakdown ball, or busting a gut to effectively close down people? He's usually left up front for corners because he's so useless at it. Racon is a perfect Pardew player; a little better than the Pardew average I'll give you. We need two central midfielders who tackle well and are positionally acute. We have offensive wingers let's try and bring them in to the game more. For God's sake this is League One, most champ teams can't cope with pacey wingers getting on the ball after breakdown ball is won.
You have to earn the right to play. Racon just gambles to nowheresville.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]You are spot on Scoham, there is no lack of passion from the management or the players. We just have an average division 1 set of players playing in , yes that's right, division 1. Therefore we are going to win some games and we are going to lose some games. That is football. All this whinging just because we lost a game is not going to change anything.
I thought that we were very poor in the 1st half but much, much better in the 2nd. The 3 subs all made a big difference and I was particularly impressed with Abbott, who totally unsettled their central defenders. We could easily have drawn, or even won ,the game with the chances we had in the 2nd half. But we didn't take them and so we lost.
It's not only whether we win or lose though... it has been the manner in which we have done so. I can take losing all day long as a Charlton fan, BUT, I cannot accept these dire performances season after season
[quote][cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]racon dived in and blocked a shot by throwing his body in front of it around the 6 yard box in front of us on saturday[/quote]
That is excellent, I stand to be proved wrong long term with him. I can't recall seeing him do that in the matches I've seen him. Whereas in the two matches I've seen McCorMack that is an attribute he is brilliant at, and seen him do it in both matches.
Firstly -Semedo is an asset at this level and Racon should be. For me the problem is that the team are too negative. This is because they don't believe they can score goals which is sort of backed up with the fact that when we did get our act together in the 2nd half on Saturday, we only got 1 despite creating enough to get more. The answer is to look at ways of carrying more threat upfront. I know Anyinsah is injured but after looking very bright and causing Notts County real problems with their physicality - I was suprised Parky didn't have another look at a Anyisnsah/Sodje partnership. Abbot/Benson are too slow. Maybe we need to look at bring a player in on loan/ maybe a fit Anyinsah is key but this is where we need to sort things out. I think if we do -we do actually have the qulaity to get out of this league. Not easily but we are no worse than others around us and this season it is not as strong as last.
The other thing you have to get the team to do is to go out trying to win 3-0 not 1-0. I would be working on this as my top priority if I was manager but I believe Parky's priority is not to lose which actually adds to our problems. The defence isn't terrible but can be breached through percentages. All teams at this level can play the percentages so it is pretty clear we need to focus on our attacking to sort out the problem.
[cite]Posted By: MuttleyCAFC[/cite]Firstly -Semedo is an asset at this level and Racon should be. For me the problem is that the team are too negative. This is because they don't believe they can score goals which is sort of backed up with the fact that when we did get our act together in the 2nd half on Saturday, we only got 1 despite creating enough to get more. The answer is to look at ways of carrying more threat upfront. I know Anyinsah is injured but after looking very bright and causing Notts County real problems with their physicality - I was suprised Parky didn't have another look at a Anyisnsah/Sodje partnership. Abbot/Benson are too slow. Maybe we need to look at bring a player in on loan/ maybe a fit Anyinsah is key but this is where we need to sort things out. I think if we do -we do actually have the qulaity to get out of this league. Not easily but we are no worse than others around us and this season it is not as strong as last.
The other thing you have to get the team to do is to go out trying to win 3-0 not 1-0. I would be working on this as my top priority if I was manager but I believe Parky's priority is not to lose which actually adds to our problems. The defence isn't terrible but can be breached through percentages. All teams at this level can play the percentages so it is pretty clear we need to focus on our attacking to sort out the problem.
Spot on. Quite simply we need to open up and start playing some football. It was the same for most of last season, we were so tight and we didn't really start playing again until the end of the season when it looked like we might even miss out on the play offs. With goals and the confidence that that brings we would look a totally different team. We need to get the central midfield sorted out Semedo/Macca or Jackson, start feeding the wingers, get the fullbacks overlapping and start pumping in some crosses.
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]What has happened to Semedo is he does all the bloody work in the middle for 90 mins. Two best chances in first 45 against MK Dons were Semedo busting a gut, yet it was him busting a gut to tackle in our final third all match. On the video for Brentford it's him busting a gut to close breakdown ball; whilst he's pretty piss poor closing down breakdown ball around the D, unlike in open play now, he try's bloody hard to do it.
Hear I go again..... In four seasons when was the last time you saw Racon winning breakdown ball, or busting a gut to effectively close down people? He's usually left up front for corners because he's so useless at it. Racon is a perfect Pardew player; a little better than the Pardew average I'll give you. We need two central midfielders who tackle well and are positionally acute. We have offensive wingers let's try and bring them in to the game more. For God's sake this is League One, most champ teams can't cope with pacey wingers getting on the ball after breakdown ball is won.
You have to earn the right to play. Racon just gambles to nowheresville.
Comments
All questions Murray would need to answer. There's probably an ideal manager out there, but who is he? Don't want another Dowie or Pardew who can talk about what they're going to do, but can't actually do it.
If Parky is sacked we should really have a complete clear out. So that means Kinsella, Breacker, Phil Chapple, maybe even Holohan and Woodman all being sacked and paid off as well. At the very least. There might be other staff a new manager doesn't want.
The atmosphere vs. Brighton is going to be so painful, especially when they absolutely run rings around us. We should all be looking forward to this game with optimism but can anyone see anything other than a big turd on our faces?
After these 2 games, if we have lost both or scraped a point or two and played the same awful football, PP has to be honest and walk. I have stuck by him last season and this season, trying to see a long term vision, how stupid was I?
There is no sign of anything coming together, growing or blossoming; no hope whatsoever. The more games that are being played, the more our players are looking like they don't know each others strengths, movements and weaknesses.
We are weak/predictable and sloppy in defence, midfield and attack. When the whole team is playing that badly over (pretty much) 4 seasons then it is time to look at the set-up/coaching/training of these players, who, on paper are capable of far more than it is achieving.
The question now is are they being coached correctly and played to their strengths, I don't think so: PP, Breaker and Kinsella are not capable of doing it, I am now convinced of this. I see the rest of this season as a pointless exercise unless something changes immediately.
You cant blame Benson for the first half as we never looked like geting the ball anywhere near him, but Jesus the guy has the pace of a snail and a very old snail at that.
What has happened to Smedo ? he just dosnt look the same player and he looks heavy.
There is truely something wrong within the club. Its been ages since we seem to get "up" for a game. the fitness seems poor.
As for Daily saying Parky is the dogs bollox well maybe he can see a job in the offing when Parky goes.
I dont think the squad is that bad (most on here say the same) therefore it has to be the tactics /motivation---its Parky (and his staff). I just dont see what we do ?
as Leroy and others have said "if not Parky then who?" -- i have no clue. I think that the issues are deeper seated.
How long though do we sit/stand and wait for it to get better ? how long before the wheels fall off our attendances.
None, he's not exactly an animated interactive figure when he is on the bench is he?
The first line of your post sums it up really.............you didn't go so hardly in the frame to comment. Not sure how many games you've been to, but having only missed the Huddersfield game I can safely say this team is the worse Charlton team I've seen over the 35 years that I have been sipporting them.............even the team in the early 80's containing the likes of Billy Lansdowne, Phil ferns, Kevin Smith etc had goals in them.
If it wasn;t for the fact that Lee Hughes had an off day and that MK Dons don't have a striker, then we would be looking at the bottom 6.
I am giving Parky 6 weeks to turn it around, If, by the start of Dec we are still not gelling, then it is time for him to go.
No over-reaction mate, they were truly shite for large periods, plain & simple!
We would all want it to work out with Parkinson, but it's hard to picture any improvement when we have gone downhill since the start of the season. There is most definitely something lacking tactically, & it seems the heart in the side is beating extremely erratically, especially when you see such a lack of effort, before & after the 1st goal & especially after the 2nd goal went in.
After the 1st, we should have rolled our sleeves up, but it was same ol', same ol', & that led to an easy number 2. This is EXTREMELY disappointing & really disrespectful to us that went, & made the effort on such a grim day.
I'll give 'em a chance, but not for much longer if that's all we are gonna get.
For moaning to the ref to much at half time and after the game. I was refering to his style towards the team during the game. He mostly sits/stands quietly while Kins does the vast majority of the talking and gesturing.Wasn't having a go just stating the way it is.
WHY!??!? If we hadn't done, we could have got rid of him earlier.
It's been 7 years and we get worse with each season and nothing will change that until we bring in a manager with passion and who can inspire confidence and actually outhink tactically the opposition and motivate a half decent squad.
Until such time as we do, we'll finish bottom half of the table - the football this year has been the worst I've ever seen - albeit in the 27 years I've been going to games!!!
Unless by passion people mean someone who isn't seen as a "nice guy" and shouts a lot?
Someone like Martin Allen might shout and scream more than Parky, but would he be an improvement tactically?
When it comes to players showing passion, could even argue some players aren't relaxed and are trying too hard. This season we've given away a lot of fouls. Could that partly be down to some players trying too hard and fouling when they should be more disciplined?
I don't think we have a dirty team but the stats are there to see, a few weeks ago we had given away more fouls than any other club in the league.
I thought that we were very poor in the 1st half but much, much better in the 2nd. The 3 subs all made a big difference and I was particularly impressed with Abbott, who totally unsettled their central defenders. We could easily have drawn, or even won ,the game with the chances we had in the 2nd half. But we didn't take them and so we lost.
It's not only whether we win or lose though... it has been the manner in which we have done so. I can take losing all day long as a Charlton fan, BUT, I cannot accept these dire performances season after season (and with new players now). So, to me, this pattern evolving means the management/coaching set-up now needs to be addressed immediately because it IS getting worse. You have to have a cut-off point somewhere along the line!
The wins we have hardly deserved, lucky to take 1 point let alone 3 in most of our wins.
When we have drawn or lost we have (pretty much) played dismally for 50 to 75% of the game, against lower league opposition too.
The players do not seem at all confident, they seem unmotivated for long periods of a game, they show no leadership or team awareness, they do not seem to understand their roles (they are always out of position). Most teams have new lineups at the start of the season so we can't keep using that excuse I'm afraid.
Hear I go again..... In four seasons when was the last time you saw Racon winning breakdown ball, or busting a gut to effectively close down people? He's usually left up front for corners because he's so useless at it. Racon is a perfect Pardew player; a little better than the Pardew average I'll give you. We need two central midfielders who tackle well and are positionally acute. We have offensive wingers let's try and bring them in to the game more. For God's sake this is League One, most champ teams can't cope with pacey wingers getting on the ball after breakdown ball is won.
You have to earn the right to play. Racon just gambles to nowheresville.
That is excellent, I stand to be proved wrong long term with him. I can't recall seeing him do that in the matches I've seen him. Whereas in the two matches I've seen McCorMack that is an attribute he is brilliant at, and seen him do it in both matches.
The other thing you have to get the team to do is to go out trying to win 3-0 not 1-0. I would be working on this as my top priority if I was manager but I believe Parky's priority is not to lose which actually adds to our problems. The defence isn't terrible but can be breached through percentages. All teams at this level can play the percentages so it is pretty clear we need to focus on our attacking to sort out the problem.
Spot on. Quite simply we need to open up and start playing some football. It was the same for most of last season, we were so tight and we didn't really start playing again until the end of the season when it looked like we might even miss out on the play offs. With goals and the confidence that that brings we would look a totally different team. We need to get the central midfield sorted out Semedo/Macca or Jackson, start feeding the wingers, get the fullbacks overlapping and start pumping in some crosses.
you were saying.....