It seems like we'll have little say in the matter. Personally, I feel Wagstaff is no-where near as good as Sam. Don't get why some people seem so nonchalant about letting him go.
You'd think we were in the Premier League, or something. ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Stefco[/cite]Personally, I feel Wagstaff is no-where near as good as Sam.
Agreed ........ although it's not just about comparing individual skills and ability.
Perhaps we should be asking who would be the most effective in the team ....?
We haven't let him go we can't afford his wages. To ask for a £0 replacement forgets that Sam was probably earning best part of £250,000 a year. A three year deal would cost a lot more than £0.
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Sadly it's just a casuality of our decline, and he has split opinion in the last couple of seasons. I can see both sides, but I wouldn't expect, nor demand, that he stay if he can earn more money, playing at a higher level elsewhere.
I know we are not 'letting him go', per-say. I was more commenting on the vibe that, if/when he does, that he won't be a great loss, & that we will be able to conjure up a much better winger, with little, or no money(certainly in terms of transfer fees to clubs)
I'm looking forward to the season whatever the scenario. I want Scott to do well, & given an extended shot, he can only get better.
[cite]Posted By: Stefco[/cite]Don't get why some people seem so nonchalant about letting him go.
Sam seems to be the only youth player that has come through in recent years that some fans actually hate. Gets a lot of abuse at games, sometimes without really doing anything wrong.
Hardly ever a finished product. Very frustrating. Lots of skill. Very lazy. But I doubt in the current situation of the club we are going to find much better. Let waggy have a go.
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Sam seems to be the only youth player that has come through in recent years that some fans actually hate. Gets a lot of abuse at games, sometimes without really doing anything wrong.
i agree, when i would consider him to be one of the better ones... well basically the crap ones are left here and a major reason we'll be stuck here for a long time and the better one(jonjo) has moved on ...
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]If Sam goes I will watch his progress with interest - will he be another Jerome Thomas or will he flourish in a decent team with good coaching?
24 starts and 8 goals for a promotion winning baggies team for jerome last year isn't that bad i'd say
[cite]Posted By: Saga Lout[/cite]If Sam goes I will watch his progress with interest - will he be another Jerome Thomas or will he flourish in a decent team with good coaching?
24 starts and 8 goals for a promotion winning baggies team for jerome last year isn't that bad i'd say
Oh silly me! So, will he be another Jerome Thomas or will he crash and burn is what I should've said.
[cite]Posted By: Stefco[/cite]Don't get why some people seem so nonchalant about letting him go.
Sam seems to be the only youth player that has come through in recent years that some fans actually hate. Gets a lot of abuse at games, sometimes without really doing anything wrong.
Would be dissapointed to see the Lloyd Sam leave that wants to run at defenders but based on the 90% of performances where the Lloyd Sam that cant bothered or doesnt seem to know what to do next i say good luck to him and i hope he passes a medical wherever it may be
[quote][cite]Posted By: Maglor[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
[/quote]
Leeds got promoted - you mean 2nd division[/quote]
I meant assuming he wants to play in he third division {with us} when Leeds {who are already in he second division}, who are fancied to be in he Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Basically he can stay with us in the third division for the foreseeable future, or he can go to Leeds where he will play in the second divison and will have a decent chance of being in he Prem in a couple of seasons.
For me it's a no brainer. This is before you consider the huge difference in what hey will offer him and what we can offer him.
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Leeds got promoted - you mean 2nd division
I meant assuming he wants to play in he third division {with us} when Leeds {who are already in he second division}, who are fancied to be in he Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Basically he can stay with us in the third division for the foreseeable future, or he can go to Leeds where he will play in the second divison and will have a decent chance of being in he Prem in a couple of seasons.
For me it's a no brainer. This is before you consider the huge difference in what hey will offer him and what we can offer him.
im pretty sure that most of us in the same position would bale out. he knows his career has stalled at charlton, theres little enthusiasm to the cause and a new club as always will bring the best out of him. new start, loads more more money = no brainer. money talks
Well he probably feels that he is never going to be liked at Charlton, a player yes who is inconsistent, but is liked almost everywhere else, so if we do not value him he probably thinks it is time for a change!
I feel that faults and all, he is a talented player, who is a good outlet for making and creating chances. If some of our forwards cannot convert them, that is there problem. Our problem is we do not have a decent, fit, ready striker, capable of scoring a decent amount of goals. Having had the likes of Benty and co in the past, it has been a hard act to follow, and frankly there have been some poor performances, and performers! over the past couple of seasons!
I'll be sorry to see Sam go, but he is one of the few young players we've had some return on in recent years. Having said that people seem to forget how poor and at times barely average Sam was to begin with. At his loans at Orient and Wednesday he couldn't keep his place in the team enough for them to want to extend his loan.
Wagstaff had a poor start for Charlton, but he has improved and shown a combative edge that Sam all too often doesn't have. Sam was woeful positionally right up till he was 23. Wagstaff appears to learn faster and is a much better athelet than Sam. Wagstaff will make mistakes but let's not immediately criticise him. Personally I think he'll have a very good start to the season, let's just get behind him whenever he comes off the boil.
I like Sam, he has got a lot of skill on the ball and can beat his man regularly, it's what he does next that frustrates people, he always seems to cock it up by doing, or trying to to do, something extra and seems it rarely, if ever comes off...
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]I'll be sorry to see Sam go, but he is one of the few young players we've had some return on in recent years. Having said that people seem to forget how poor and at times barely average Sam was to begin with. At his loans at Orient and Wednesday he couldn't keep his place in the team enough for them to want to extend his loan.
Wagstaff had a poor start for Charlton, but he has improved and shown a combative edge that Sam all too often doesn't have. Sam was woeful positionally right up till he was 23. Wagstaff appears to learn faster and is a much better athelet than Sam. Wagstaff will make mistakes but let's not immediately criticise him. Personally I think he'll have a very good start to the season, let's just get behind him whenever he comes off the boil.
Difference with Wagstaff is he's been involved with the first team since he made his debut at 18 (mainly down to our decline of course).
Sam made his debut when he was 20 and didn't play regularly until we were relegated, by then he was 22/23 early on in the season. Often see people saying Sam hasn't reached his potential, but is it really a surprise when he played reserve football with the odd short loan spell until his early 20s.
Agree we should get behind Wagstaff, assuming he stays. Plenty of room for improvement and he has the right attitude. Do hope we have some competition for him on the right though.
Not that bothered either way. We couldnt afford him so we made an offer that we could afford and he turned it down. Leeds sign a (possibly very good) player for nothing.
Sam is like an increasing number of players that have the ability but their head isnt really there and they dont achieve what their skill sets say they should.
Comments
But is it on Wikipedia .....?
And your choice of better quality, £0 replacement would be?
Mr Scott Wagstaff, of course.
You'd think we were in the Premier League, or something. ;-)
and even then they have got the Gary Docherty transfer wrong.
Agreed ........ although it's not just about comparing individual skills and ability.
Perhaps we should be asking who would be the most effective in the team ....?
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Sadly it's just a casuality of our decline, and he has split opinion in the last couple of seasons. I can see both sides, but I wouldn't expect, nor demand, that he stay if he can earn more money, playing at a higher level elsewhere.
Good luck to him.
I'm looking forward to the season whatever the scenario. I want Scott to do well, & given an extended shot, he can only get better.
Leeds got promoted - you mean 2nd division
i agree, when i would consider him to be one of the better ones... well basically the crap ones are left here and a major reason we'll be stuck here for a long time and the better one(jonjo) has moved on ...
24 starts and 8 goals for a promotion winning baggies team for jerome last year isn't that bad i'd say
Oh silly me! So, will he be another Jerome Thomas or will he crash and burn is what I should've said.
He is frustrating though as you know he could do so much more if he had a bit more devilment in him.
Kevin Lisbie?
This is, of course, assuming he wants to play in the third division when Leeds, who must be fancied to be in the Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
[/quote]
Leeds got promoted - you mean 2nd division[/quote]
I meant assuming he wants to play in he third division {with us} when Leeds {who are already in he second division}, who are fancied to be in he Prem in a couple of seasons, offer him a game.
Basically he can stay with us in the third division for the foreseeable future, or he can go to Leeds where he will play in the second divison and will have a decent chance of being in he Prem in a couple of seasons.
For me it's a no brainer. This is before you consider the huge difference in what hey will offer him and what we can offer him.
im pretty sure that most of us in the same position would bale out. he knows his career has stalled at charlton, theres little enthusiasm to the cause and a new club as always will bring the best out of him. new start, loads more more money = no brainer. money talks
I feel that faults and all, he is a talented player, who is a good outlet for making and creating chances. If some of our forwards cannot convert them, that is there problem. Our problem is we do not have a decent, fit, ready striker, capable of scoring a decent amount of goals. Having had the likes of Benty and co in the past, it has been a hard act to follow, and frankly there have been some poor performances, and performers! over the past couple of seasons!
Wagstaff had a poor start for Charlton, but he has improved and shown a combative edge that Sam all too often doesn't have. Sam was woeful positionally right up till he was 23. Wagstaff appears to learn faster and is a much better athelet than Sam. Wagstaff will make mistakes but let's not immediately criticise him. Personally I think he'll have a very good start to the season, let's just get behind him whenever he comes off the boil.
It needs to be drilled into him:
Beat your man, cross the ball....
Beat your man, cross the ball....
Beat your man, cross the ball....
Beat your man, cross the ball....
Beat your man, cross the ball....
Sam made his debut when he was 20 and didn't play regularly until we were relegated, by then he was 22/23 early on in the season. Often see people saying Sam hasn't reached his potential, but is it really a surprise when he played reserve football with the odd short loan spell until his early 20s.
Agree we should get behind Wagstaff, assuming he stays. Plenty of room for improvement and he has the right attitude. Do hope we have some competition for him on the right though.
Sam is like an increasing number of players that have the ability but their head isnt really there and they dont achieve what their skill sets say they should.