I think we need him in the team more than ever now - when he gets match sharp and confident he could really make the difference. Hopefully people will get behind him, or make an appointment with Queen B for evisceration.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Summed up perfectly by AFKA.
Just cos Elliott is a Charlton fan and Jonjos uncle writes on here its a bit pathetic we arent allowed our view.
When the clearly talented jonjo leaves us for West Ham and we all slag him off a la Parker ope we all rmemeber this/
what a load of absolute BS no one is stopping anyone having a view, Just reminding you to think about his age and to cut him more slack
If you want to slag an 18 yr old boy off for having bad games then you are a fool as he is bound to make mistakes he is learning his trade FFS,
As for when he Fooks off just remember the fee we will get for him as he didnt even need to sign a contract ala Jon Bostock,
He has done no harm or wrong for this football club he is a young kid starting out as for Robbie Elliot just because he is a charlton fan doesnt stop anyone slating him just once again he is a young kid in his first full season not a seasoned pro like weaver who dropped as many clangers,
we are a 3rd division club with 3rd division standard players the young ones will hopefully be better than that but right now they are what they are
[quote][cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Summed up perfectly by AFKA.
Just cos Elliott is a Charlton fan and Jonjos uncle writes on here its a bit pathetic we arent allowed our view. /[/quote]
The only thing that is pathetic is you if you feel me posting on here stops you from your view. I have read all whats written on here and said nothing but now you've made it about me. Your pathetic if you want to say something then say it, dont blame his uncle for not being able to.
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Yes, exactly as you say.........right now JJS cannot get a regular spot in a 3rd division team with 3rd division standard players.
VP please explain why you seem to have a personal grudge against Shelvey. Most "normal" thinking supporters would understand that at 18 he is not going to be the finished article and still has a lot to learn.
Next season no matter what league we're in, this is a title winning team. I am a fan of jonjo, started very brightly and got himself into some brilliant positions. Unlucky not to score but that's football. If he starts next week i will be certain of a goal from the lad.
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Yes, exactly as you say.........right now JJS cannot get a regular spot in a 3rd division team with 3rd division standard players.
he sees things that others dont and he tries things others wont one day they will all come off and he will be the nutts i doubt it will be for us though as we are not good enough for him,
[cite]Posted By: Dan C 4[/cite]Elliott
Richardson Sodje Dailly Youga
Sam Bailey semedo Racon
Shelvey
Burton
Next season no matter what league we're in, this is a title winning team.
shame it wasn't this year when we had this team ........
if we're in this league next year half of those will be gone and if we're in the league above they'd do well to reach mid table ....
[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Yes, exactly as you say.........right now JJS cannot get a regular spot in a 3rd division team with 3rd division standard players.
Just as those players you mentioned couldn't get regular games in their worse than us teams at the same age.
I wonder if fans of those clubs gave Morrison, Lambert and Holt stick back then and are now saying "why did we let them go?".
Shelvey is an England international. He's not the finished article and because of his early progress is making his mistakes in the full glare of the first team not in the U18s or reserves.
Yes, IMHO he didn't do that well v Carlisle and he's had some other poor games. Others will disagree but that's my view. And maybe he's a round peg in a square hole right now with what Charlton need and the other players we have but lets not go overboard over some missed chances.
As for Uncle's presence or Elliot being a fan meaning we can't say anything that is just nonsensical. Both take stick on here and most of it, like with the other players, is unthinking and unfair. But no one is silenced or edited. This thread is still here.
Maybe if we all had to consider that the comments we so freely make on here we had to repeat to the face of person concerned or a relative we'd be a little more considered and polite rather than rushing to re-inforce our pre-concieved ideas. At least I hope so
I made a poor joke before the last Bromley Meeting about "come and boo the players to there face and then run away" in response to the booing following the Gills game. The next day I had a phone call from a Charlton legend asking me to re-assure them that this wouldn't be the case when the players turned up at the meeting. I said that that would never happen as those who were brave enough to boo in a crowd or from behind a keyboard would never do it face to face with someone.
We really are so so over critical and so so lacking in any perspective so times. At a game and in the height of the game I can understand, and share, that frustration and exasperation but to carry it on when there is time to reflect and consider really only puts us as fans in a bad light, not the players.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
Maybe if we all had to consider that the comments we so freely make on here we had to repeat to the face of person concerned or a relative we'd be a little more considered and polite rather than rushing to re-inforce our pre-concieved ideas. At least I hope so
I agree with much of what you say and a bit more consideration about the performances of players would be welcome. I hope, though, that this sentiment applies to be players that might not currently be in favour with the management team.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Maybe if we all had to consider that the comments we so freely make on here we had to repeat to the face of person concerned or a relative
Perhaps some supporters don't understand that players are actually ordinary human beings?
Even 18 year olds.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I made a poor joke before the last Bromley Meeting about "come and boo the players to there face and then run away" in response to the booing following the Gills game.
The next day I had a phone call from a Charlton legend asking me to re-assure them that this wouldn't be the case when the players turned up at the meeting.
Evidence that constant booing and barracking does undermine our own players.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]We really are so so over critical and so so lacking in any perspective so times.
We wouldn't like it if people are constantly over critical about us - so why are some of us always unthinkingly and insensitively barracking players?
On another thread I posted a quote from the Norwich defender Gary Docherty ....... and he made specific reference to how Leeds and yes, Charlton supporters - negatively affect their own players.
[cite]Posted By: Dan C 4[/cite]Elliott
Richardson Sodje Dailly Youga
Sam Bailey semedo Racon
Shelvey
Burton
Next season no matter what league we're in, this is a title winning team.
I am a fan of jonjo, started very brightly and got himself into some brilliant positions. Unlucky not to score but that's football. If he starts next week i will be certain of a goal from the lad.
You're having a laugh there. That team is not good enough to win the Championship and get promoted to the Premier League.
[cite]Posted By: Dan C 4[/cite]Elliott
Richardson Sodje Dailly Youga
Sam Bailey semedo Racon
Shelvey
Burton
Next season no matter what league we're in, this is a title winning team.
I am a fan of jonjo, started very brightly and got himself into some brilliant positions. Unlucky not to score but that's football. If he starts next week i will be certain of a goal from the lad.
You're having a laugh there. That team is not good enough to win the Championship and get promoted to the Premier League.
That's what I was thinking. Racon won't play on the left either.
Happy to put my thoughts on JJS all in one place, nothing personal though - i'm sure he is a top notch lad.
If he is old enough to pull on the shirt - he is old enough to enjoy the glory (great game at Norwich) / or the brickbats (missed 2 chances against Carlisle).
If he needs practice - practice in the reserves or in meaningless midtable first team matches (see below).
His manager does not think he is good enough for a regular first team place - why do we all think he is the new Ronaldo ?
If he is sold, we would benefit financially - but it took £7m to stay afloat this season, and I doubt he would fetch that much, so we might last half a season.
Our task is in front of us NOW not in several years time - chances in front of goal must be taken now (or at least be on target !)
If we don't get out of this league quick we will have plenty of meaningless matches in which to blood new players in seasons to come - JJS won't be one of them.
He may not be an out-and-out striker but he was playing in a 4-4-1-1, so he has to be prepared for a chance on goal.
Yes, if JJS had scored I would have gone nuts - if they had equalised I would be preparing for another 12 months of rainy Yeovil, freezing Walsall, characterless MKD, and miserable Carlisle.
In summary, our expectations of JJS are too high and it's debatable whether he is an appropriate player to get us out of L1 (Parky not picking him).
Best Case Scenario: We get automatic promotion, stabilise ourselves financially, re-establish ourselves as an upward looking Championship side, retain JJS, Bailey, etc etc and add more quality players and trainees.
Worst Case Scenario: One or two dropped points/missed chances cost us promotion, money runs out, players leave (incl JJS), assets get sold, club slides into L2 and beyond.
Just over 3 years ago we beat Newcastle 2-0 in a Prem match. We can't change history, but we can shape the future.
quote# 39
Posted By: shirty5
Mooney 35 League games, 8 goals
Shelvey 40 League games, 7 goals.
Posted By: Oggy Red
Interesting!
And they've frequently played a similar role - especially when you consider Mooney regularly drops deeper with link up play, even in an arbitary 4-4-2. 1 to 40 of 84
Not sure where you have got these stats from but i think you'll find if you look at the statbank posted today yours doesn't seem to match. Also why have you only added goals and not assists? We can all work stats in our favour if we want. Oggy you seem to be forgetting jonjo played half of his games at left midfield because racon threw his toys out the pram and wouldn't play there. Not sure i can remember mooney playing out there to often. Now i'm not knocking mooney because i actually like him, but if your going to use stats to prove an argument then at least use all the true facts
Shelvey has the advantage of taking set pieces, but then like uncle says he's played in midfield, Mooney's only ever played up front (even if it's in the deeper role).
Bit confused where those stats have come from, are they including the last two seasons and Mooney's appearances for other clubs?
personally I thought Jonjo did reasonably Ok on sat without setting the game on fire. One thing I will say though - he craves supporters support.His first reaction when he thought he was going to be subbed to look at the north stand as he wanted to know what theri reaction was going to be. I'm pretty sure if the club and supporters show confidence in him he will improve at a very fast rate from here on
[cite]Posted By: redman[/cite]personally I thought Jonjo did reasonably Ok on sat without setting the game on fire.
One thing I will say though - he craves supporters support.His first reaction when he thought he was going to be subbed to look at the north stand as he wanted to know what theri reaction was going to be. I'm pretty sure if the club and supporters show confidence in him he will improve at a very fast rate from here on
I completely agree. Jonjo seemed a bit rusty but look back over the season and it's clear that he can score some crucial goals.
I think he was given a job to do by Parky and he carried it out for the team. He's a midfielder, not a striker so he can be forgiven the ocassional miss. What was encouraging was that we got into those positions where we were able to shoot.
I don't buy the argument by some on this forum that it's okay to slag off an 18 year old just because he's a professional fotballer and that he should just get used to it. We need to encourage our players and treat them with the respect that we would expect of ourselves.
Very exciting young talent with the ability to make a pass that nobody else in the team could spot let alone complete.
At the start of the season in the free role in the 4-5-1 he was awesome.
However if we play 4-4-2 I'm not sure where he fits into the team.
Isn't yet physical or disciplined enough to play centre-midfield IMO (even alongside a stopper like Semedo) and isn't really a natural wide player as his instinct is to go looking for the ball so we lose shape and the full-back on his side is exposed when we lose possession.
As all our strikers are fairly poor I'd like to see us revert to 4-5-1 with Forster or Burton up front and the same midfield five who looked a million dollars at the start of the season (Bailey, Semedo, Racon, JJ and Sam (or Reid))
4-5-1 is definitely be the way to go in the play-offs where you need to keep things tight so let's get back into the groove right away and we could still sneak second!
Comments
I think we need him in the team more than ever now - when he gets match sharp and confident he could really make the difference. Hopefully people will get behind him, or make an appointment with Queen B for evisceration.
Come on Jonjo!
Oh Matron!
need to be brave, stupid or both to take us on ;-)
Just cos Elliott is a Charlton fan and Jonjos uncle writes on here its a bit pathetic we arent allowed our view.
When the clearly talented jonjo leaves us for West Ham and we all slag him off a la Parker ope we all rmemeber this/
what a load of absolute BS no one is stopping anyone having a view, Just reminding you to think about his age and to cut him more slack
If you want to slag an 18 yr old boy off for having bad games then you are a fool as he is bound to make mistakes he is learning his trade FFS,
As for when he Fooks off just remember the fee we will get for him as he didnt even need to sign a contract ala Jon Bostock,
He has done no harm or wrong for this football club he is a young kid starting out as for Robbie Elliot just because he is a charlton fan doesnt stop anyone slating him just once again he is a young kid in his first full season not a seasoned pro like weaver who dropped as many clangers,
we are a 3rd division club with 3rd division standard players the young ones will hopefully be better than that but right now they are what they are
Just cos Elliott is a Charlton fan and Jonjos uncle writes on here its a bit pathetic we arent allowed our view.
/[/quote]
The only thing that is pathetic is you if you feel me posting on here stops you from your view. I have read all whats written on here and said nothing but now you've made it about me. Your pathetic if you want to say something then say it, dont blame his uncle for not being able to.
VP please explain why you seem to have a personal grudge against Shelvey. Most "normal" thinking supporters would understand that at 18 he is not going to be the finished article and still has a lot to learn.
Richardson Sodje Dailly Youga
Sam Bailey semedo Racon
Shelvey
Burton
Next season no matter what league we're in, this is a title winning team.
I am a fan of jonjo, started very brightly and got himself into some brilliant positions. Unlucky not to score but that's football. If he starts next week i will be certain of a goal from the lad.
he sees things that others dont and he tries things others wont one day they will all come off and he will be the nutts i doubt it will be for us though as we are not good enough for him,
shame it wasn't this year when we had this team ........
if we're in this league next year half of those will be gone and if we're in the league above they'd do well to reach mid table ....
Just as those players you mentioned couldn't get regular games in their worse than us teams at the same age.
I wonder if fans of those clubs gave Morrison, Lambert and Holt stick back then and are now saying "why did we let them go?".
Shelvey is an England international. He's not the finished article and because of his early progress is making his mistakes in the full glare of the first team not in the U18s or reserves.
Yes, IMHO he didn't do that well v Carlisle and he's had some other poor games. Others will disagree but that's my view. And maybe he's a round peg in a square hole right now with what Charlton need and the other players we have but lets not go overboard over some missed chances.
As for Uncle's presence or Elliot being a fan meaning we can't say anything that is just nonsensical. Both take stick on here and most of it, like with the other players, is unthinking and unfair. But no one is silenced or edited. This thread is still here.
Maybe if we all had to consider that the comments we so freely make on here we had to repeat to the face of person concerned or a relative we'd be a little more considered and polite rather than rushing to re-inforce our pre-concieved ideas. At least I hope so
I made a poor joke before the last Bromley Meeting about "come and boo the players to there face and then run away" in response to the booing following the Gills game. The next day I had a phone call from a Charlton legend asking me to re-assure them that this wouldn't be the case when the players turned up at the meeting. I said that that would never happen as those who were brave enough to boo in a crowd or from behind a keyboard would never do it face to face with someone.
We really are so so over critical and so so lacking in any perspective so times. At a game and in the height of the game I can understand, and share, that frustration and exasperation but to carry it on when there is time to reflect and consider really only puts us as fans in a bad light, not the players.
Perhaps some supporters don't understand that players are actually ordinary human beings?
Even 18 year olds.
Evidence that constant booing and barracking does undermine our own players.
We wouldn't like it if people are constantly over critical about us - so why are some of us always unthinkingly and insensitively barracking players?
On another thread I posted a quote from the Norwich defender Gary Docherty ....... and he made specific reference to how Leeds and yes, Charlton supporters - negatively affect their own players.
You're having a laugh there. That team is not good enough to win the Championship and get promoted to the Premier League.
If he is old enough to pull on the shirt - he is old enough to enjoy the glory (great game at Norwich) / or the brickbats (missed 2 chances against Carlisle).
If he needs practice - practice in the reserves or in meaningless midtable first team matches (see below).
His manager does not think he is good enough for a regular first team place - why do we all think he is the new Ronaldo ?
If he is sold, we would benefit financially - but it took £7m to stay afloat this season, and I doubt he would fetch that much, so we might last half a season.
Our task is in front of us NOW not in several years time - chances in front of goal must be taken now (or at least be on target !)
If we don't get out of this league quick we will have plenty of meaningless matches in which to blood new players in seasons to come - JJS won't be one of them.
He may not be an out-and-out striker but he was playing in a 4-4-1-1, so he has to be prepared for a chance on goal.
Yes, if JJS had scored I would have gone nuts - if they had equalised I would be preparing for another 12 months of rainy Yeovil, freezing Walsall, characterless MKD, and miserable Carlisle.
In summary, our expectations of JJS are too high and it's debatable whether he is an appropriate player to get us out of L1 (Parky not picking him).
Best Case Scenario:
We get automatic promotion, stabilise ourselves financially, re-establish ourselves as an upward looking Championship side, retain JJS, Bailey, etc etc and add more quality players and trainees.
Worst Case Scenario:
One or two dropped points/missed chances cost us promotion, money runs out, players leave (incl JJS), assets get sold, club slides into L2 and beyond.
Just over 3 years ago we beat Newcastle 2-0 in a Prem match. We can't change history, but we can shape the future.
Posted By: shirty5
Mooney 35 League games, 8 goals
Shelvey 40 League games, 7 goals.
Posted By: Oggy Red
Interesting!
And they've frequently played a similar role - especially when you consider Mooney regularly drops deeper with link up play, even in an arbitary 4-4-2. 1 to 40 of 84
Not sure where you have got these stats from but i think you'll find if you look at the statbank posted today yours doesn't seem to match. Also why have you only added goals and not assists? We can all work stats in our favour if we want. Oggy you seem to be forgetting jonjo played half of his games at left midfield because racon threw his toys out the pram and wouldn't play there. Not sure i can remember mooney playing out there to often. Now i'm not knocking mooney because i actually like him, but if your going to use stats to prove an argument then at least use all the true facts
Mooney 20 starts 5 subs 5 goals 3 assists (FL site says 2)
Shelvey 21 starts 4 subs 4 goals 6 assists (FL site says 5)
Shelvey has the advantage of taking set pieces, but then like uncle says he's played in midfield, Mooney's only ever played up front (even if it's in the deeper role).
Bit confused where those stats have come from, are they including the last two seasons and Mooney's appearances for other clubs?
One thing I will say though - he craves supporters support.His first reaction when he thought he was going to be subbed to look at the north stand as he wanted to know what theri reaction was going to be. I'm pretty sure if the club and supporters show confidence in him he will improve at a very fast rate from here on
Sorry WSS, have I missed something here?
He wont bite cos the lino was a cheat!!! See AFKA i even done that without swearing at the cheating ..........Lino
I completely agree. Jonjo seemed a bit rusty but look back over the season and it's clear that he can score some crucial goals.
I think he was given a job to do by Parky and he carried it out for the team. He's a midfielder, not a striker so he can be forgiven the ocassional miss. What was encouraging was that we got into those positions where we were able to shoot.
I don't buy the argument by some on this forum that it's okay to slag off an 18 year old just because he's a professional fotballer and that he should just get used to it. We need to encourage our players and treat them with the respect that we would expect of ourselves.
Very exciting young talent with the ability to make a pass that nobody else in the team could spot let alone complete.
At the start of the season in the free role in the 4-5-1 he was awesome.
However if we play 4-4-2 I'm not sure where he fits into the team.
Isn't yet physical or disciplined enough to play centre-midfield IMO (even alongside a stopper like Semedo) and isn't really a natural wide player as his instinct is to go looking for the ball so we lose shape and the full-back on his side is exposed when we lose possession.
As all our strikers are fairly poor I'd like to see us revert to 4-5-1 with Forster or Burton up front and the same midfield five who looked a million dollars at the start of the season (Bailey, Semedo, Racon, JJ and Sam (or Reid))
4-5-1 is definitely be the way to go in the play-offs where you need to keep things tight so let's get back into the groove right away and we could still sneak second!