[cite]Posted By: Valiantphil[/cite]Does anyone remember the Lisbie miss at Vicarage Road in our last days in the Prem ?
It probably cost us our Prem spot and we have years in the doldrums now to reflect on it.
I don't care how old anyone is or their playing history - the point is, we cannot miss too many chances. IF Carlisle had equalised today we could have another season in L1 and Shelvey would be gone, along with a few other quality players. Yes, it's a big IF - but it has happened several times already this season.
Parky has not been using Shelvey - I guess that's because he does not warrant a place in the team (i.e. not good enough), and IMHO he did nothing against Carlisle to enhance his reputation.
He is an 18 year old former trainee, that sometimes gets in the first team of a club that is in the playoff zone of the 3rd tier, and who has "supposedly" been the subject of a huge bid by a Premiership club. I'm afraid that's the bear truth.
By contrast, Steve Morison is 26 and has 17 goals so far, to add to the 68 he got last season and the 28 prior to that (both in non-league).
Grant Holt and Rickie Lambert are 28 and their stats are well documented . This is also the bear truth.
Would you rather have either of these 3 guys than Jonjo ?
You are comparing shelvey to 3 of the best strikers in our league why? JJ is a Centre Midfielder just gets played out of position
You also say that he done nothing? if those 2 chances had gone in im sure you would have been singing his praises, yes he was a bit rusty but he did nothing thats just harsh!
He looked composed on the ball, never hid, got in positons to have 3 shots at least(even if bad ones imo), gave 100% which is more can be said for racon, i agree wasn't his greatest game but he hasn't played in a while & played out of position what did you expect him to score a hatrick on his talent alone? get real
I have to say the boo boys make me sick. When Shelvey is in the team we pass the ball around better and keep the ball on the floor. He has a lovely silky touch and makes it so much easier for his teamates to play the next ball, compared to say Reid who seems to smack the ball around at difficult angles. If we play him right he could be our Gerrard but it is early days yet. I was genuinely surprised when he missed his first opportunity because you always expect him to get a shot on goal. Then the defender did a great block on a goal bound shot and then he had another glaring miss but by then he was tiring. Keep at it kid.
Glad to see him back in the starting eleven yesterday, and did ok imo, though should have scored one of them two good chances he had.
Would echo what some people have said re if that was Mooney who missed jonjo's first good chance, the place would have gone mental. Personally i would start him again on saturday.
[cite]Posted By: KBslittlesis[/cite]I HATE it when our own supporters spend more time slagging our home grown talent off than actually getting behind the team.
Well said, Lil'Sis!
I don't understand it either, when supporters won't support the players.
People are taking the time to look at Shelvey and giving him the benefit of the doubt after considering the whole picture after what was IMHO a less than impressive game where he missed some good chances and made a few wrong decisions. Glad to read it.
But other players, and it's Mooney now but could have been McLeod or Akpo, would be getting caned for those misses and level of play.
Why not just look at what a player does in the whole game and forget the name of the back of the shirt and judge on that. Shelvey has most likely played a similar if not more league games than Mooney. Why do so few cut him any slack?
Mooney 35 League games, 8 goals
Shelvey 40 League games, 7 goals.
[cite]Posted By: cafc-4-life[/cite]Today some people around me was frustrated at Jonjo not getting a goal out of his numerous chances but if you was one of them yes he didn't score them BUT he got into the positions for them and got the chances. Today was an off day for the lad of 18 years old and on another day he would off scored them but when was the last time we played and got that many chances on and off target! Start him in todays position against soton and give him a chance, he lacks experience and hasn't played recently but we all know he can hit the back of the net!
Totally agree, I would put it down to lack of match fitness/sharpness not a lack of ability. If he gets a chance like that next week I'd back him to score. What I would say though is if Mooney had missed those chances he would have been slaughtered by the fans and no one would be saying "yes he didn't score them BUT he got into the positions for them and got the chances."
Could not disagree more. Given the run of play the last few months,anyCharlton player that can get into positions that create the opportunity to score will get heralded -- even if his name were Dickson, Fleetwood, or Izale.
[cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]Mooney 35 League games, 8 goals
Shelvey 40 League games, 7 goals.
Interesting!
And they've frequently played a similar role - especially when you consider Mooney regularly drops deeper with link up play, even in an arbitary 4-4-2.
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]So why is Mooney booed then?
Only by supporters ignorant of Mooney's role in the team.
And the fact that they judge the player only on what doesn't always come off for him, rather than giving credit to what he does well - and his value to the team as a unit.
"You are comparing shelvey to 3 of the best strikers in our league " - No, I said "in contrast" not "in comparison". "You also say that he done nothing" - No, I said "he did nothing to enhance his reputation"
Trawling through Wikipedia about Morison, Holt and Lambert is missing the point. If we don't put the ball in the net NOW, there will be no Shelvey aged 26 at Charlton in the future, (he will be like Defoe, playing in the Prem and hardly any mention will be made of our involvement) - yet we will be stuck in the lower divisions with no money or prospects.
We need to put our chances away, and players who miss decent chances are risking OUR future not their own (e.g Ambrose).
You are still contrasting a midfielder with three strikers.
Yes, we would have liked more goals but we got 100% of them on Saturday and Monday.
If we stay down then Shelvey might well go. He could go even if we stay up. Our final position, like our relegation from the prem, will not be down to one miss, one goal or one mistake (unless we reach the play-offs)
JonJo is quailty if you disagree pop up to the Nth Upper find Queen B and tell her all about iti reckon i will give you 15 seconds of slating the young fella before she rips your head off shites down your neck,
if you are brave enough to do it then i think u have every right to slag him off every game.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]JonJo is quailty if you disagree pop up to the Nth Upper find Queen B and tell her all about iti reckon i will give you 15 seconds of slating the young fella before she rips your head off shites down your neck,
if you are brave enough to do it then i think u have every right to slag him off every game.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]JonJo is quailty if you disagree pop up to the Nth Upper find Queen B and tell her all about iti reckon i will give you 15 seconds of slating the young fella before she rips your head off shites down your neck,
Just relieved to see over all such measured assessment on here of Jonjo's performance. I marked him fairly low primarily as I felt he struggled to get involved in the first half, but was delighted to see him back, and to see him keep hunting after the kind of unfortunate miss that can happen to anyone. We've all seen he can finish with both feet so let's just be glad it didn't affect the 3 pts this time. He never hid and I'd like to see him start again on Saturday if he's fit. As others have said, we seem to create more when he's around, even on one of his relative off-days. Wouldn't it be nice if, after not being seen for a while, he turned out to be the surprise weapon that saw us through the play-offs.
Jonjo Shelvey is a work in progress. The helmets that boo the lad aint got a clue. Most of them are the same age, fat and useless, yet have the audacity to try and mug him off. You can tell most have never played the game, only the Charlton Superstore do kits big enough.
I really do hope he doesnt become unsettled at the Valley and we allow him to progress as a footballer, wearing a Charlton shirt. He'll become a very very big player for us if he keeps developing.
I dont understand the harsh treatment of Mooney. Personally i dont rate him but the abuse aint on.
The JonJo situation leaves the manager in a very difficult quandry.
JonJo i suspect was brought back into the fold with a certain amount of fan pressure calling for it. But it is worth remembering though why he was takeng out of the side in the first place, and that is because he wasn't fitting correctly into the system we were playing, and his performances were below par.
We could argue his strengths and weaknesses, and factor in his age etc until the cows come home, but he has not. for one reason or another, kicked on and been the major player in our side that many of us, and i'm sure both the manager and himself, hoped he would be this season. I can imagine that has been difficult for him to take, particularly as there have been great expectations built around him due to his younger exploits.
I thought he did well when he come on on Saturday, and i thought he did 'ok' on Saturday. I can understand the reasons of why some people automatically defend him, but i can equally see the reasons why some others criticise and get frustrated.
What i did notice was a lot more maturity and discipline in terms of holding the position he was playing, and getting and remaining in the right areas. Felt for him after the miss, but thought he was desperately unlucky with the 2nd one, as i thought he did the right thing delaying and cutting back, and it reminded me of what Mendonca would have done in that position. I think he desperately needed a break from those two incidents to boost his self-belief, and i'm worried about what impact it may have on him not getting that break.
Not sure he is the right foil if Forster is going to be the main main up front. I don't see too much cultured football being played in this run in, and i think the physical attributes of Akpo will be needed for the team. Personally i feel JonJo will flourish in the last half hour of games when space opens up and opposition tire a lot more than through starting at the moment.
A few tough, and ultimately crucial decisions ahead.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Personally i feel JonJo will flourish in the last half hour of games when space opens up and opposition tire a lot more than through starting at the moment.
The point about space is a good one, people say we aren't convincing against the likes of Carisle, but they concentrated on denying us space and defending. Southampton for one will most likely attack us, it'll be an open game because of that and that's when out attacking players especially Shelvey can be really dangerous. I hope the missed chances don't knock his confidence too much as he will offer a lot in the more open games.
His crossing yesterday with BOTH feet was quality yesterday. In fact I cannot remember the last time we put so many decent balls into the box, anyone would think we were trying to score goals or something.
Comments
You are comparing shelvey to 3 of the best strikers in our league why? JJ is a Centre Midfielder just gets played out of position
You also say that he done nothing? if those 2 chances had gone in im sure you would have been singing his praises, yes he was a bit rusty but he did nothing thats just harsh!
He looked composed on the ball, never hid, got in positons to have 3 shots at least(even if bad ones imo), gave 100% which is more can be said for racon, i agree wasn't his greatest game but he hasn't played in a while & played out of position what did you expect him to score a hatrick on his talent alone? get real
I was genuinely surprised when he missed his first opportunity because you always expect him to get a shot on goal. Then the defender did a great block on a goal bound shot and then he had another glaring miss but by then he was tiring. Keep at it kid.
Lambert, Holt and Morrison are all strikers not midfielders and all, as you say, a lot older than 18.
More relevantly where were they when they were 18?
Morrison failed at Northampton and ended up in non-league
Holt was at Barrow having played for Workington and Halifax.
Lambert was bombed out by Blackpool
Would echo what some people have said re if that was Mooney who missed jonjo's first good chance, the place would have gone mental. Personally i would start him again on saturday.
Well said, Lil'Sis!
I don't understand it either, when supporters won't support the players.
They might as well cheer opponents.
So why is Mooney booed then?
Interesting!
And they've frequently played a similar role - especially when you consider Mooney regularly drops deeper with link up play, even in an arbitary 4-4-2.
Cant believe the Shelvey quotes on here TBH foolish to say the least clowns no wonder palace call us it
Only by supporters ignorant of Mooney's role in the team.
And the fact that they judge the player only on what doesn't always come off for him, rather than giving credit to what he does well - and his value to the team as a unit.
"You also say that he done nothing" - No, I said "he did nothing to enhance his reputation"
Trawling through Wikipedia about Morison, Holt and Lambert is missing the point. If we don't put the ball in the net NOW, there will be no Shelvey aged 26 at Charlton in the future, (he will be like Defoe, playing in the Prem and hardly any mention will be made of our involvement) - yet we will be stuck in the lower divisions with no money or prospects.
We need to put our chances away, and players who miss decent chances are risking OUR future not their own (e.g Ambrose).
Yes, we would have liked more goals but we got 100% of them on Saturday and Monday.
If we stay down then Shelvey might well go. He could go even if we stay up. Our final position, like our relegation from the prem, will not be down to one miss, one goal or one mistake (unless we reach the play-offs)
Goal scoring is not our problem, defending is.
not so much now 1 goal conceded in the last 3.5 games......... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Why do I hate you being right so much?? :-)
It's all Darren Randolph's fault!
if you are brave enough to do it then i think u have every right to slag him off every game.
You up for it B
Sounds Lovely.
I reckon KBsis and me could be a tag team.
Keep going Jonjo. The goals will soon come again.
I will sell the tickets B me nad tav 50 50
I really do hope he doesnt become unsettled at the Valley and we allow him to progress as a footballer, wearing a Charlton shirt. He'll become a very very big player for us if he keeps developing.
I dont understand the harsh treatment of Mooney. Personally i dont rate him but the abuse aint on.
JonJo i suspect was brought back into the fold with a certain amount of fan pressure calling for it. But it is worth remembering though why he was takeng out of the side in the first place, and that is because he wasn't fitting correctly into the system we were playing, and his performances were below par.
We could argue his strengths and weaknesses, and factor in his age etc until the cows come home, but he has not. for one reason or another, kicked on and been the major player in our side that many of us, and i'm sure both the manager and himself, hoped he would be this season. I can imagine that has been difficult for him to take, particularly as there have been great expectations built around him due to his younger exploits.
I thought he did well when he come on on Saturday, and i thought he did 'ok' on Saturday. I can understand the reasons of why some people automatically defend him, but i can equally see the reasons why some others criticise and get frustrated.
What i did notice was a lot more maturity and discipline in terms of holding the position he was playing, and getting and remaining in the right areas. Felt for him after the miss, but thought he was desperately unlucky with the 2nd one, as i thought he did the right thing delaying and cutting back, and it reminded me of what Mendonca would have done in that position. I think he desperately needed a break from those two incidents to boost his self-belief, and i'm worried about what impact it may have on him not getting that break.
Not sure he is the right foil if Forster is going to be the main main up front. I don't see too much cultured football being played in this run in, and i think the physical attributes of Akpo will be needed for the team. Personally i feel JonJo will flourish in the last half hour of games when space opens up and opposition tire a lot more than through starting at the moment.
A few tough, and ultimately crucial decisions ahead.