[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]People can bury their heads in the sand but the reality is we haven't played well for weeks and have failed to beat Oldham, Brighton, Tranmere, Orient and Gillingham at home. That is just simply not good enough.
Agreed. But it's not only us, is it? Less than 48 hours ago, Colchester threw away the lead and lost to Walsall - who played the entire 2nd half with only 10 men.
A couple of weeks ago, didn't Swindon lose 0-4 at home to Bristol Rovers?
Since Christmas, Leeds have failed to beat Brentford, Brighton, Walsall and Wycombe at home.
Leeds have either scraped a point or chucked away winning positions at Orient, Huddersfield and Hartlepool.
And managed to lose away to Exeter and got mauled at Swindon.
How many points have leeds won by keeping on till the ref blows his whistle, theve turned numerous defeats into priceless points, how many times do see bechio or beckford with +90 next to there name, we don't have the fight they do.
[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]How many points have leeds won by keeping on till the ref blows his whistle, theve turned numerous defeats into priceless points, how many times do see bechio or beckford with +90 next to there name, we don't have the fight they do.
We don't have the finishers up front either. Must be a fair few goals from Beckford, Bechio, Holt and Martin in the last 15 minutes of games. Not saying that's the only issue but a good goalscorer would make some difference.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]People can bury their heads in the sand but the reality is we haven't played well for weeks and have failed to beat Oldham, Brighton, Tranmere, Orient and Gillingham at home. That is just simply not good enough.
Agreed. But it's not only us, is it? Less than 48 hours ago, Colchester threw away the lead and lost to Walsall - who played the entire 2nd half with only 10 men.
A couple of weeks ago, didn't Swindon lose 0-4 at home to Bristol Rovers?
Since Christmas, Leeds have failed to beat Brentford, Brighton, Walsall and Wycombe at home.
Leeds have either scraped a point or chucked away winning positions at Orient, Huddersfield and Hartlepool.
And managed to lose away to Exeter and got mauled at Swindon.
Leeds are also on a bad run there's no denying that, Colchester i don't think are actually that good a side. Swindon's 4-0 was obviously a blip, in recent weeks they drew with Norwich and us, dismantled Leeds and won at Southampton.
We do need a goalscorer but PP needs to look a little closer at HIS tactics and HIS players defending & commitment before he starts commenting on our rivals. Plus the Millwall game wasnt the only reason the boo boys came out....we've been pony for months.
[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]How many points have leeds won by keeping on till the ref blows his whistle, theve turned numerous defeats into priceless points, how many times do see bechio or beckford with +90 next to there name, we don't have the fight they do.
We don't have the finishers up front either. Must be a fair few goals from Beckford, Bechio, Holt and Martin in the last 15 minutes of games. Not saying that's the only issue but a good goalscorer would make some difference.
Norwich have Holt and Martin
Leeds have Beckford and Becchio
Swindon have Austin and Paynter
Millwall have Morison and Harris
Who do we have?! How often does a team win promotion without a goalscorer?
Another thing about Parky is i recall reading last week that he was going to ring the changes and get a reaction out of the players. Well his changes were:
Borrowdale in for Solly (an obvious change as Solly is inexperienced and he's a right back)
Sodje and Burton in for Llera and Sodje (changes any of us would've made)
Sam in for Reid (obvious change after Reid showing at Millwall he is not a right winger)
So there was no formation change, no (apparent) tactical change and Bailey was still on the left. Is that it? Well done Phil, you earned your wages this week!!
I do wonder if that was partly down to Reid not being 100% fit. He might have not wanted the 451 we used at the start of the season. It was good if the midfield were passing the ball well, but if they didn't it was a bit flat and predictable. With Burton now injured, there could be even less chance of him changing to 451.
We absolutely can play a part - but what do we do if the players look disinterested and don't respond to the support, just like at millwall? What's our role then? Keep singing and pretend it's ok? I didn't boo them on sat but there is a time when it's ok to show the players that a lack of effort is not acceptable. I would have appreciated seeing Parky lay into the players when they're not putting it in, with the same passion as he laid into the fans on saturday. PP hid the players away after millwall and talked about how honest they are. When the manager fails to do something about it and he fails to speak out against it then people are going to show their disapproval.
Much of Saturday's reaction was a lot to do with the millwall game. Generally we've been pretty patient and supportive. I remember last year Villa fans booed their players for only drawing even though it kept them in 4th place in the premier league.
Hopefully people have got it out their system and we can all move on. but sometimes the fans need a lift from the players - It's a two way thing though and it always has been.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]People can bury their heads in the sand but the reality is we haven't played well for weeks and have failed to beat Oldham, Brighton, Tranmere, Orient and Gillingham at home. That is just simply not good enough.
Agreed. But it's not only us, is it? Less than 48 hours ago, Colchester threw away the lead and lost to Walsall - who played the entire 2nd half with only 10 men.
A couple of weeks ago, didn't Swindon lose 0-4 at home to Bristol Rovers?
Since Christmas, Leeds have failed to beat Brentford, Brighton, Walsall and Wycombe at home.
Leeds have either scraped a point or chucked away winning positions at Orient, Huddersfield and Hartlepool.
And managed to lose away to Exeter and got mauled at Swindon.
Indeed I said last week, everyone is as inconsistent as the other bar Norwich, and the next 9 games they'll be plenty of games where all those around the play offs will be dropping points to those team fighting to stay up.
[cite]Posted By: BBClaus[/cite]but sometimes the fans need a lift from the players - It's a two way thing though and it always has been.
Definitely, it's part of the reason getting the first goal and starting a game well is important with the team and fans we have. When we get the first goal, especially at home, it can make a big difference. Probably can be said for a lot of teams in this league though. Most teams I've seen look better defending a lead than chasing a game.
Ah-hah! Someone's hit the nail squarely on the head.If we get promoted a lot of people here are going to have to cramb down a lot of humble pie.
And I assume by that logic when we don't all of his apologists will do the same.
I'm guessing it'll be down to him having less money to spend than Bob Cratchet (conveniently forgetting the expensive loans and bosmans and the excellent support from the board in allowing him to keep Racon, Sam, Shelvey, Bailey and Youga.
Or, it'll be because someone boo-ed at half time against Gillingham.
I don't think our strikers are missing loads of chances every game. If they were then a new striker would be an obvious solution.
If I was Richard Murray and Parkinson came to me at xmas and said 'Richard, if you give me £500,000 I will get a quality striker and I will guarantee you automatic promotion!', I would have replied, 'Phil, that is all very well, but what good is a quality striker when the sides you send out every week create so few chances for its strikers.'
For good reason or whatever, the negativity by so many on this board is oppressive.
We aren't playing well, but we still have a good chance of promotion.
And yet we still need to score our little petty points and go scapegoat hunting .....?
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]I don't think our strikers are missing loads of chances every game. If they were then a new striker would be an obvious solution.
If I was Richard Murray and Parkinson came to me at xmas and said 'Richard, if you give me £500,000 I will get a quality striker and I will guarantee you automatic promotion!', I would have replied, 'Phil, that is all very well, but what good is a quality striker when the sides you send out every week create so few chances for its strikers.'
Are you happy with Mooney and Akpo then? Do you think they are good finishers or can create chances for themselves? We don't always loads create chances, some games we do, but there have been enough games in which a proper goalscorer would have made a difference.
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]
I'm guessing it'll be down to him having less money to spend than Bob Cratchet (conveniently forgetting the expensive loans and bosmans and the excellent support from the board in allowing him to keep Racon, Sam, Shelvey, Bailey and Youga.
Are the loans expensive though? The reason we could get them is because they were cheap enough.
If we don't go up, which I don't think we will, yes he'll be partly to blame. I always said I thought he could get us into the play-offs, which is looking likely, unfortunately it looks like he hasn't quite done enough to get us into the top two.
However I don't think that many affordable and realistic managers would have got this squad into the top two. The injury news today shows how small our squad is when we're considering who our replacements are.
Certainly if Parky left last summer and his replacement had us in this position, the new manager would be getting far more credit even with unconvincing performances.
Villa fans were all over talksport slagging of martin o'neil for being 'boring' and 'predictable' after there 2 2 draw with local rivals wolves that kept them 4th at the time... honestly some people slagging there manager off.....
What Parky has said is true. A few fans have done nothing but moan and winge for 5 or more years. Remember the "Curbs is useless" campaign and all the cheering when he left . Godd idea him going was'nt It. Havent you worked it out you have to be careful what you wish for
Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
If you have to moan at least wait until the end of the season because to change manager now would be plain stupid. Who could we get and who in their right mind would want the job ?
[cite]Posted By: DPFC[/cite]Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
[cite]Posted By: DPFC[/cite]
Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
we have finished lower than our current position only twice in the last 75 years.
[cite]Posted By: DPFC[/cite]What Parky has said is true. A few fans have done nothing but moan and winge for 5 or more years. Remember the "Curbs is useless" campaign and all the cheering when he left . Godd idea him going was'nt It. Havent you worked it out you have to be careful what you wish for
Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
If you have to moan at least wait until the end of the season because to change manager now would be plain stupid. Who could we get and who in their right mind would want the job ?
End of Rant
What he said. A vocal minority wanted Curbs out and plenty more moaned about the style of football "boring mid table Premiership football" and that Curbs should go because he had "taken us as far as he can." The archives of 606, Talksport, Netaddicks, Your Views etc do not lie before people jump down my throat.
I can remember being asked if I worked for the Club on netaddicks when I remarked that we would rue the day Curbs left. This was some considerable time before he did leave when the usual suspects were moaning about him.
In many cases the self same people who are moaning about Parky now and who boo our players.
[cite]Posted By: DPFC[/cite]Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
LOL. First time I've laugh in days.
Why dont we sign up for the SELKENT sunday pub league next year....we'd have an even better season on paper there.
Two points. Firstly any manager in any job is employed for two principle reasons, 1) They take/make decisions. 2) They take responsibility. I know there is lots of other stuff but it basically boils down to those two things. The important caveats to those two things are, 1) What is the situation that they inherited. 2)How much have they been allowed to change the situation that they inherited.
For me (to answer my own points), The manager has to take responsibility. But with the following caveats.
1) The inherited situation was terrible, we were a poor championship team, with very low morale. Any player that could be sold was, ok we kept onto our midfield, but I bet we only had interest in Bailey and Jonjo. We have not got a squad of championship players, they only ones to play regularly at that level are Burton and Dailly. Even the Sodjes have never really been first choice for more than one or two seasons.
2) We might have a high wage bill but isn't that due to overpaying players, rather than them being any good? I am guessing but isn't Moo2 on 8k+ a week, McCloed must be on close to that and Dickson,Sinclair and Fleetwood on close to that combined so lets for arguments sake and ease of maths say 25k per week, thats £1,300,00 per year on five players that have barely played a game, and are not likely to. Take out the 1.3m add back on what other clubs are paying our loanees (a fraction I would imagine), and perhaps our wage bill isn't so special. So his ability to change the inherited situation, can only really be measured in motivation and training, not in financial terms.
I should add that I have not seen us live for three seasons (not connected to PL status), I only ever see us on the tele/internet when we are always crap, so I can not comment with any amount of accuracy on how our players perform. And therefore rarely do comment on their performance. It sounds terrible on the radio, and perhaps that is not just Emma's fault.
Undoubtably a poor set of recent results (leeds almost as bad) - BUT the question should be how we get enough points to get second. Does the booing help or hinder? I cant see how it helps! End of debate!
maybe if the management can get some sort of passion out of the players, then we won't be left picking up the peices talking about this complete side issue that everyone has been sucked into.
1a. No-one ever goes out onto a football pitch with the intent of not picking up three points. 1b. Most would agree that as long as our players show effort, no matter how bad then we will support them.
= Why, oh why are we booing our team? There is plenty of effort to succeed from everyone involved.
2. Can we not just get over this please? For the sake of the rest of our season. Leave this issue until the summer.
[cite]Posted By: Callumcafc[/cite]A couple of points:
1a. No-one ever goes out onto a football pitch with the intent of not picking up three points.
1b. Most would agree that as long as our players show effort, no matter how bad then we will support them.
= Why, oh why are we booing our team? There is plenty of effort to succeed from everyone involved.
2. Can we not just get over this please? For the sake of the rest of our season. Leave this issue until the summer.
Agree with points 1a and b Callum but unfortunately many of us were debating the same issue(s) last summer
Comments
Agreed. But it's not only us, is it? Less than 48 hours ago, Colchester threw away the lead and lost to Walsall - who played the entire 2nd half with only 10 men.
A couple of weeks ago, didn't Swindon lose 0-4 at home to Bristol Rovers?
Since Christmas, Leeds have failed to beat Brentford, Brighton, Walsall and Wycombe at home.
Leeds have either scraped a point or chucked away winning positions at Orient, Huddersfield and Hartlepool.
And managed to lose away to Exeter and got mauled at Swindon.
Leeds are also on a bad run there's no denying that, Colchester i don't think are actually that good a side. Swindon's 4-0 was obviously a blip, in recent weeks they drew with Norwich and us, dismantled Leeds and won at Southampton.
Norwich have Holt and Martin
Leeds have Beckford and Becchio
Swindon have Austin and Paynter
Millwall have Morison and Harris
Who do we have?! How often does a team win promotion without a goalscorer?
And Moooney!
Borrowdale in for Solly (an obvious change as Solly is inexperienced and he's a right back)
Sodje and Burton in for Llera and Sodje (changes any of us would've made)
Sam in for Reid (obvious change after Reid showing at Millwall he is not a right winger)
So there was no formation change, no (apparent) tactical change and Bailey was still on the left. Is that it? Well done Phil, you earned your wages this week!!
Much of Saturday's reaction was a lot to do with the millwall game. Generally we've been pretty patient and supportive. I remember last year Villa fans booed their players for only drawing even though it kept them in 4th place in the premier league.
Hopefully people have got it out their system and we can all move on. but sometimes the fans need a lift from the players - It's a two way thing though and it always has been.
Indeed I said last week, everyone is as inconsistent as the other bar Norwich, and the next 9 games they'll be plenty of games where all those around the play offs will be dropping points to those team fighting to stay up.
I'm guessing it'll be down to him having less money to spend than Bob Cratchet (conveniently forgetting the expensive loans and bosmans and the excellent support from the board in allowing him to keep Racon, Sam, Shelvey, Bailey and Youga.
Or, it'll be because someone boo-ed at half time against Gillingham.
If I was Richard Murray and Parkinson came to me at xmas and said 'Richard, if you give me £500,000 I will get a quality striker and I will guarantee you automatic promotion!', I would have replied, 'Phil, that is all very well, but what good is a quality striker when the sides you send out every week create so few chances for its strikers.'
We aren't playing well, but we still have a good chance of promotion.
And yet we still need to score our little petty points and go scapegoat hunting .....?
Time to have a word with ourselves.
Are the loans expensive though? The reason we could get them is because they were cheap enough.
If we don't go up, which I don't think we will, yes he'll be partly to blame. I always said I thought he could get us into the play-offs, which is looking likely, unfortunately it looks like he hasn't quite done enough to get us into the top two.
However I don't think that many affordable and realistic managers would have got this squad into the top two. The injury news today shows how small our squad is when we're considering who our replacements are.
Certainly if Parky left last summer and his replacement had us in this position, the new manager would be getting far more credit even with unconvincing performances.
We'll have him if you don't want him.
;-)
Many wont like to hear this, but on paper this has been our best season for over 10 years, when were we last 3rd in the table with 9 matches to go ? when was the last time we had this many points? when was the last time we we only lost 5 out of 37 matches.
If you have to moan at least wait until the end of the season because to change manager now would be plain stupid. Who could we get and who in their right mind would want the job ?
End of Rant
10 years ago we wernt in the 3rd division
for the record i loved curbs still do
LOL. First time I've laugh in days.
we have finished lower than our current position only twice in the last 75 years.
What he said. A vocal minority wanted Curbs out and plenty more moaned about the style of football "boring mid table Premiership football" and that Curbs should go because he had "taken us as far as he can." The archives of 606, Talksport, Netaddicks, Your Views etc do not lie before people jump down my throat.
I can remember being asked if I worked for the Club on netaddicks when I remarked that we would rue the day Curbs left. This was some considerable time before he did leave when the usual suspects were moaning about him.
In many cases the self same people who are moaning about Parky now and who boo our players.
Why dont we sign up for the SELKENT sunday pub league next year....we'd have an even better season on paper there.
For me (to answer my own points), The manager has to take responsibility. But with the following caveats.
1) The inherited situation was terrible, we were a poor championship team, with very low morale. Any player that could be sold was, ok we kept onto our midfield, but I bet we only had interest in Bailey and Jonjo. We have not got a squad of championship players, they only ones to play regularly at that level are Burton and Dailly. Even the Sodjes have never really been first choice for more than one or two seasons.
2) We might have a high wage bill but isn't that due to overpaying players, rather than them being any good? I am guessing but isn't Moo2 on 8k+ a week, McCloed must be on close to that and Dickson,Sinclair and Fleetwood on close to that combined so lets for arguments sake and ease of maths say 25k per week, thats £1,300,00 per year on five players that have barely played a game, and are not likely to. Take out the 1.3m add back on what other clubs are paying our loanees (a fraction I would imagine), and perhaps our wage bill isn't so special. So his ability to change the inherited situation, can only really be measured in motivation and training, not in financial terms.
I should add that I have not seen us live for three seasons (not connected to PL status), I only ever see us on the tele/internet when we are always crap, so I can not comment with any amount of accuracy on how our players perform. And therefore rarely do comment on their performance. It sounds terrible on the radio, and perhaps that is not just Emma's fault.
1a. No-one ever goes out onto a football pitch with the intent of not picking up three points.
1b. Most would agree that as long as our players show effort, no matter how bad then we will support them.
= Why, oh why are we booing our team? There is plenty of effort to succeed from everyone involved.
2. Can we not just get over this please? For the sake of the rest of our season. Leave this issue until the summer.
Agree with points 1a and b Callum but unfortunately many of us were debating the same issue(s) last summer