[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]I think people would be more tolerant if Emma was a boy.
I find this quite bizarre. People have made it abundantly clear what they dislike about Emma's commentary - the lack of description of events, the interminable pauses between words, the banal comments. No-one has resorted to gender arguments. The truth is that there has been no need to do so.
Defend her if you will. No problem. But please don't fall into the sexism trap as the basis for dismissing the dissatisfaction. Defend her by telling us why we should be happy to listen to comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
I defy anyone ... male, female or South African runner ... to come through that unscathed.
I think some of the women here need to chill, it has nothing to do with gender at all, its just the poor commentary. The way some people seem to be reacting is silly, it's like saying 'you don't like Garth Crooks punditry, therefore it must be because he's black and so you're a racist'.
[cite]Posted By: AshTray[/cite]I think people would be more tolerant if Emma was a boy.
I find this quite bizarre. People have made it abundantly clear what they dislike about Emma's commentary - the lack of description of events, the interminable pauses between words, the banal comments. No-one has resorted to gender arguments. The truth is that there has been no need to do so.
Defend her if you will. No problem. But please don't fall into the sexism trap as the basis for dismissing the dissatisfaction. Defend her by telling us why we should be happy to listen to comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
I defy anyone ... male, female or South African runner ... to come through that unscathed.
Absolutely spot on Dave. In fact it's only AshTray that constantly refers to the fact she's a woman. Yet he/she is very quick to rubbish and pigeon hole others views and even has the pomposity to say "I'm not even saying people are being consciously sexist". They're not being sexist at all mate - deal with it.
I haven't even bothered turning the commentary on for the last few games, can't deal with it. She's infuriating.
But I didn't realise I couldn't listen to it because I'm subconsciously sexist. So thanks for that Ash. Your powers of text-based psychoanalysis are second to none.
I've never listened to her so can't comment on her ability.
It sounds like she is having to learn on the job which is never easy. Keeping a constant and informed commentary going for 90 minutes is difficult which is one reason that on Radio Five the commentators are switched two or three times during games.
It is especially hard when delivering to an "expert" audience ie fans of the particular club playing who will know the players better than any commentator.
However people are not just saying "she's an annoying bird". As Dave Rudd pointed out people have made quiet clear the, in their opinion, legitimate complaints they have about her knowledge, style and delivery. Hopefully she is getting feedback on how she is doing as well as advice on how to improve. Does Ruth Aubrey still work at BBC Radio London?
Ashtray, you have been asked the question more than once about your relationship with Emma but despite long and well written comments you have given no response. Why is that?
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I've never listened to her so can't comment on her ability.
It sounds like she is having to learn on the job which is never easy. Keeping a constant and informed commentary going for 90 minutes is difficult which is one reason that on Radio Five the commentators are switched two or three times during games.
It is especially hard when delivering to an "expert" audience ie fans of the particular club playing who will know the players better than any commentator.
/quote]
good point, but surely there must be some sports commentary training courses that the bbc must run (hopefully not lectured by ron atkinson) that gives them a founding on the job. it seems as though she has been thrown in at the deep end and they're hoping nobody notices. if carlton palmer, stan collymore and paul merson can do it then most other people could probably pick it up.
I'm really uncomfortable with putting in complaints that might end up with somebody who is trying - i.e. not being lazy or not bothering - with losing her job. She's really bad though, and that's irrespective of gender. She's probably the worst commentator that I've heard and that's in a world that contains Motty, Walker, Lawro, Pleat et al (all incompetent blokes)
She is not up to the job, but they pay her peanuts and to get somebody competent would cost the station more money as talented commentators expect to be properly rewarded.
Unfortunately, Emma is fairly typical of the standard of sports commentary on BBC local radio these days. If it's any consolation, some of the cricket commentary is even worse.
During the Essex v Kent game at Chelmsford last year, two BBC Radio Essex commentators described a six over spell by Wayne Parnell as being bowled by Steffan Jones. Parnell is a 19 year old left-arm bowler who delivers the ball at close to 90mph. Jones is a 35 year old right-arm journeyman who struggles to get above 80mph. Yet in 36 balls, neither commentator noticed this discrepancy.
What I am saying is that if there was a succcesful campaign to get rid of Emma - and heaven knows as a broadcaster she is barely competent enough to read the weather let alone commentate on a live football game - there is no guarantee we would get anyone better. In fact, they might conceivably be even worse.
I'm not excusing her because she is inexcusably incompetent. But at the same time she is a symptom of the policy of the bean-counters at both BBC London and Kent to try to do everything on the cheap.
I've not heard her, so can't comment on her ability, but if she is a lifelong Charlton fan, than that should count for something.
I remember Motty commentating on us away to Chelsea on Radio 5 (must have been a while ago now), and i was getting more and more infuriated at all the inane chatter between him and the summariser to the point that I hadn;t got a clue what was going on on the pitch. Radio commentary is a very particular skill - to be able to paint that picture for others of exactly what is happening. Not many can do it well.
Isn't the talk born of frustration....when you listen to Charlton playing away you want to know whats happening, if you can't tell what is going on it means you're wasting your time and frustrated. Emma simply needs to tell us...and she doesn't!
Dave Rudd: Quote: comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
Brilliant, I missed that bit.
Looking at it from another perspective: I suppose there is a certain novelty factor here which is rather fun. Let's consider that if anyone was actually doing a 'proper' commentary we would probably have been slitting our wrists anyway.
I say, keep her in (while we are playing shite) for the comedy aspect we (so) need in our lives right now when listening to Charlton commentary. However, when we start winning convincingly and playing football again, ditch the b..... (bird - oops is that sexist too, ahem).
Interesting debate, i must admit when i've heard her she's been pretty poor, but i think this is more to do with her sounding new to the job. I think she will get better as time goes on and if she is a Charlton fan i would rather have her doing it than someone who doesn't care a bit about the club.
[quote][cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: johnny73[/cite]Obviously the club are as good with negotiating for commentators as they have been for players over recent years![/quote] It's nothing to do with the club.[/quote] You are right about which commentators are used but the club are saying they negotiated for the full match commentary. "As part of an agreement we have reached with BBC LONDON (which took a lot of hard work on both sides), we have come to an arrangement by which the club benefits from this resource and supporters can gain access to commentary." So this is my understanding (probably wrong). The club wanted to keep the cost of commentary to the minimum. So instead of hiring a couple of completely biased (in our favour) experts. They piggy backed off of the BBC London service. Hence the poor quality service we are receiving.
Other clubs in the football league are generally signed up to the full world player package, where subscribers are charged for official website content and world player content, the income probably covers match commentators etc. We have chosen to keep running our own website and have had to do a deal to get commentary. It comes down to the club trying to save money and to be honest I'm ok with that and will be glad I can actually hear the games.
I've tried to do it on occasion for fun while watching matches on the TV with the sound turned down and the verdict of the "beneficiaries" of my commentary has not been favourable!
It's not easy although that said I guess it is reasonable to expect somebody employed in the role to be competent and proficient.
Comments
I find this quite bizarre. People have made it abundantly clear what they dislike about Emma's commentary - the lack of description of events, the interminable pauses between words, the banal comments. No-one has resorted to gender arguments. The truth is that there has been no need to do so.
Defend her if you will. No problem. But please don't fall into the sexism trap as the basis for dismissing the dissatisfaction. Defend her by telling us why we should be happy to listen to comments like "Well, Elliott has hurt his arm, but .... and this will sound silly because he's a goalkeeper .... at least the kicking part of his game will be OK. It's just that the bit where he uses his arms might be a problem."
I defy anyone ... male, female or South African runner ... to come through that unscathed.
Jackie Oatley has improved too although there are better male commentators in my opinion as well as worse.
Absolutely spot on Dave. In fact it's only AshTray that constantly refers to the fact she's a woman. Yet he/she is very quick to rubbish and pigeon hole others views and even has the pomposity to say "I'm not even saying people are being consciously sexist". They're not being sexist at all mate - deal with it.
But I didn't realise I couldn't listen to it because I'm subconsciously sexist. So thanks for that Ash. Your powers of text-based psychoanalysis are second to none.
It sounds like she is having to learn on the job which is never easy. Keeping a constant and informed commentary going for 90 minutes is difficult which is one reason that on Radio Five the commentators are switched two or three times during games.
It is especially hard when delivering to an "expert" audience ie fans of the particular club playing who will know the players better than any commentator.
However people are not just saying "she's an annoying bird". As Dave Rudd pointed out people have made quiet clear the, in their opinion, legitimate complaints they have about her knowledge, style and delivery. Hopefully she is getting feedback on how she is doing as well as advice on how to improve. Does Ruth Aubrey still work at BBC Radio London?
Ashtray, you have been asked the question more than once about your relationship with Emma but despite long and well written comments you have given no response. Why is that?
Too many cooks spoil the broth
It sounds like she is having to learn on the job which is never easy. Keeping a constant and informed commentary going for 90 minutes is difficult which is one reason that on Radio Five the commentators are switched two or three times during games.
It is especially hard when delivering to an "expert" audience ie fans of the particular club playing who will know the players better than any commentator.
/quote]
good point, but surely there must be some sports commentary training courses that the bbc must run (hopefully not lectured by ron atkinson) that gives them a founding on the job. it seems as though she has been thrown in at the deep end and they're hoping nobody notices. if carlton palmer, stan collymore and paul merson can do it then most other people could probably pick it up.
Unfortunately, Emma is fairly typical of the standard of sports commentary on BBC local radio these days. If it's any consolation, some of the cricket commentary is even worse.
During the Essex v Kent game at Chelmsford last year, two BBC Radio Essex commentators described a six over spell by Wayne Parnell as being bowled by Steffan Jones. Parnell is a 19 year old left-arm bowler who delivers the ball at close to 90mph. Jones is a 35 year old right-arm journeyman who struggles to get above 80mph. Yet in 36 balls, neither commentator noticed this discrepancy.
What I am saying is that if there was a succcesful campaign to get rid of Emma - and heaven knows as a broadcaster she is barely competent enough to read the weather let alone commentate on a live football game - there is no guarantee we would get anyone better. In fact, they might conceivably be even worse.
I'm not excusing her because she is inexcusably incompetent. But at the same time she is a symptom of the policy of the bean-counters at both BBC London and Kent to try to do everything on the cheap.
I remember Motty commentating on us away to Chelsea on Radio 5 (must have been a while ago now), and i was getting more and more infuriated at all the inane chatter between him and the summariser to the point that I hadn;t got a clue what was going on on the pitch. Radio commentary is a very particular skill - to be able to paint that picture for others of exactly what is happening. Not many can do it well.
Brilliant, I missed that bit.
Looking at it from another perspective: I suppose there is a certain novelty factor here which is rather fun. Let's consider that if anyone was actually doing a 'proper' commentary we would probably have been slitting our wrists anyway.
I say, keep her in (while we are playing shite) for the comedy aspect we (so) need in our lives right now when listening to Charlton commentary. However, when we start winning convincingly and playing football again, ditch the b..... (bird - oops is that sexist too, ahem).
You're never too old to learn
It's nothing to do with the club.[/quote]
You are right about which commentators are used but the club are saying they negotiated for the full match commentary. "As part of an agreement we have reached with BBC LONDON (which took a lot of hard work on both sides), we have come to an arrangement by which the club benefits from this resource and supporters can gain access to commentary."
So this is my understanding (probably wrong). The club wanted to keep the cost of commentary to the minimum. So instead of hiring a couple of completely biased (in our favour) experts. They piggy backed off of the BBC London service. Hence the poor quality service we are receiving.
Other clubs in the football league are generally signed up to the full world player package, where subscribers are charged for official website content and world player content, the income probably covers match commentators etc. We have chosen to keep running our own website and have had to do a deal to get commentary. It comes down to the club trying to save money and to be honest I'm ok with that and will be glad I can actually hear the games.
Now there's a name from the past!!!!
Maybe the Beeb would let you sit with her doing her prep work, and then some knowledgeable infill comments that she could pick up on.
It might even help her learn the players' names.
;o)
I've tried to do it on occasion for fun while watching matches on the TV with the sound turned down and the verdict of the "beneficiaries" of my commentary has not been favourable!
It's not easy although that said I guess it is reasonable to expect somebody employed in the role to be competent and proficient.
You can't ride two horses with one arse.