Just so I'm clear. You think that some players have been trying to play well to get a move away from the club, but they have been trying so hard that they have ended up playing like crap?
Some interesting faces in their last night actually. Dunno if the clubs were giving away tickets to anyone they had a phone number for but Peter Taylor and Chris Hutchings were there a well as Gordon Mcqueen (Boro scout I think?) Simon Grayson too who had a good laugh when they scored and Stuart Pearce - wonder if he's having a look at Jonjo for the U21's?
[cite]Posted By: The Red Robin[/cite]Llera aside Sam was our worst player last night. Wasted opportunities to cross the ball or cut it back to team mates, tried to take the ball past another player when there was no need, showing off at every opportunity, and his first touch and passing were awful. He was the same against Hartlepool and I think he knows there's been scouts there watching him. The last two home games I've seen scouts from Newcastle, Bolton, Burnley and Boro watching us and I think some of our players are aware of this and are trying too hard to get a move away from the club. The sooner January is over the better.
Spot on
Llyod failed to give us an option of Width throughout the whole 1st half and it amazes me people failed to see that, Not once did he hang wide and stretch play (like a winger should) he continually come inside and made us narrow on more than 1 occasion he was berrated for not going wide by Bailey, Dailey Semedo.
Doubled up on well i wont comment about that for the 2nd half as i was in the west and i didnt see that i will re watch the shite performance tonight to see,
Sam should be ripping this league apart he is a much better player than he has shown this season and is head and shoulders above 2 bob defenders like last night
in the first half he was up against a clown of a full back who Lloyd was too scared to attack, Yet in the first 1 min of the 2nd half he delivered a great cross why because he attacked him and got past him
Richardson ran the full length of the pitch and got past the Fullback more than once, If sam wouldve done that from half the distance he would have killed the guy, the full backs touch was woefull his distribution poor an ideal candidate for a speedy tricky winger yet once again he failed to do his job.
the guy deserves criticism that he is getting he is no longer the youngster the prospect he needs to now deliver the promise that he has shown in spits and spurts in his whole career here
Wingers look lazy it goes with the territory. John Robinson is one of the few exceptions I can think of to that rule.
Rommedahl, Ambrose, Bouazza, Lee Cook, Scott Sinclair, Jerome Thomas all lazier than Lloyd Sam who makes an effort to track back and help out his full back yet still offers more attacking threat than most.
I wouldn't mind betting that any other league 1 club (including Leeds and Norwich) would bite your arm off to have Sam in their team as would a fair few Championship clubs.
Cant really say Sam played badly last night but its becoming a bit depressing how just about every attack we have has to go through him or else we end up hoofing it upfield. We desperately need something on the left... If a team wants to beat us they know that there best option is to double up on Sam and try and mark him out of the game. He cant take on a team by himself and we are beginning to look like a team very short of ideas
[cite]Posted By: Sam lloyd[/cite]Just watched the re-run on Sky and the commentator said what I thought last night in that Lloyd does not deserve to be in the losing team
well i bloody do they were total shit the lot of them
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
Rommedahl, Ambrose, Bouazza, Lee Cook, Scott Sinclair, Jerome Thomas all lazier than Lloyd Sam who makes an effort to track back and help out his full back yet still offers more attacking threat than most.
All Sh!t.
Agree with an earlier post that Richardson was flying past their left back but didn't have the quality to cross it at the end. Now if Richardson can be that direct and get past him with ease then I'm sure someone with the technical ability of Sam is more than capable. But he didn't. Would of been interesting to see how Wagstaff would have played out there last night.
Orient weren't great and we probably didn't deserve to lose the game considering the opportunities we wasted.
quote# 42 Cant really say Sam played badly last night but its becoming a bit depressing how just about every attack we have has to go through him or else we end up hoofing it upfield. We desperately need something on the left... If a team wants to beat us they know that there best option is to double up on Sam and try and mark him out of the game. He cant take on a team by himself and we are beginning to look like a team very short of ideas
Good post Len and from reading the critizism I think it comes down to Sam not being the player people want him to be. Wagstaff energy and directness give him an easy way to impress.
He isn't that type or winger though. He might not sprint down the line and charge into space like many want him to, but he still creates chances in his own way every game. The stepovers don't really bother me, they had no major effect either way, but I was pleased to see him create a decent number of chances.
Wagstaff does more than just direct running though doesn't he. People rate him because he's been effective and has scored goals or created chances every time he has played. Something Llyod Sam is not doing at the moment for whatever reason.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
Rommedahl, Ambrose, Bouazza, Lee Cook, Scott Sinclair, Jerome Thomas all lazier than Lloyd Sam who makes an effort to track back and help out his full back yet still offers more attacking threat than most.
All Sh!t.
Agree with an earlier post that Richardson was flying past their left back but didn't have the quality to cross it at the end. Now if Richardson can be that direct and get past him with ease then I'm sure someone with the technical ability of Sam is more than capable. But he didn't. Would of been interesting to see how Wagstaff would have played out there last night.
Orient weren't great and we probably didn't deserve to lose the game considering the opportunities we wasted.
this is the bit that most seem to be missing Sam did not try to get past the defender he did not try in the 1st half at all
for him to have tried to get past him i wouldve seen it we were on that side level with the Corner flag insted Sam went inside looking for the ball and caused us to be very narrow,
When he did get the ball he went inside not outside
What chances did he create in the first half 1 off the top of my head when he went inside easiest days work for the Fullbacks of Orient last night
But he didnt create any chances in the first half other tahn the shot that he had because he cut inside,
He needs to go past defenders on the outside and put a ball across the box that is his job and for the last 2 home games he has failed to do that IMO.
If he was doing his job and the strikers were missing the chances from his crosses then the only people to get the blame would be them
2nd half i was on the oposite side so i wont say that he didnt try and kept getting tackled or doubled up on but it certainly didnt look that way to me.
he has shown so much promise in the chumpionship yet a league lower he can not it does not make sense
I think some people seem to confuse the fact that he cannot create chances for people if they are not in position to be crossed to. It seems to me that this is also why he cuts inside so much. What is the point in crossing if no one is going to get on the end of it? Surely it is better to cut inside and try to buy some time for your team mates to catch up with play.
he was our most productive player last night obviously no competition from his team mates but he done better than anyone last night on the offensive side imo ...
He created 4 or 5 chances but without watching the match again I can't remember when they were and exactly how they all happened.
In a higher league he gets more space as less teams sit back against us. He's still near the top of the assists table with 8 (I think), plus 4 goals and all the missed chances he creates.
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]still a kid he has time
but he aint Nolly what is he now 25??
[cite]Posted By: Vinnie V.[/cite]I think some people seem to confuse the fact that he cannot create chances for people if they are not in position to be crossed to. It seems to me that this is also why he cuts inside so much. What is the point in crossing if no one is going to get on the end of it? Surely it is better to cut inside and try to buy some time for your team mates to catch up with play.
By going past the defender causes the attackers to get in the box, he does not get past the full back so there is no need for the attckers to go in there
if he started getting past them i bet the strikers would be in there
1st half he done F all like i said 2nd i cant comment on as i was too far away, i remember his great cross in the 1st min of 2nd half and a real cracker it was too showing that he can do it,
but that is all i can recall him doing i, i taped it so i will rewatch it tonite
On the whole I thought Charlton played reasonably well last night. Better than in some games we have won. If Burton and Mooney had not wasted some glorious opportunities and had a bit of luck on other oportunities we would have won and no one could argue that we did not deserve to win. However, the only time we looked like a decent footballing team was when we attacked down the right wing and most of the time Sam was involved in those attacks. If the option to move the ball out of defense down the right wing is not available the only alternative seems to be the long ball up the middle which 9 times out 10 gives away possesion and every now and then Burton gets a head to it and may be it falls to another Charlton player. It is just like the Pardew tactic where the primary means of attack was the long ball up to Iwelimo (pretty sure that is the wrong spelling). I feel sure that when Youga is back and Wagstaff starts on the left mid field (I think he has earned the right to start the next few games there) we could go on another run.
the non biased view from the orient fan in the players ratings
" Lloyd Sam was your best player going forward and the only one that actually threatened our defence I was surprised by how poor both Bailey and Shelvey were as they both possess quality though"
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]still a kid he has time
[cite]Posted By: nolly[/cite]agreed its everyone but sams fault
of course not but he creates far more than he's given credit for.
Vinnie makes a good point which was discussed when Burton was up front on his own. Sam often had to try and pick out 1 or 2 players in a crowded box, and he's not one to just swing hopeful balls into the box. Not as bad now we play 442 but Mooney isn't exactly a good target in the air.
Comments
The club coats with the bade all over it give it away slightly. They sit in the West Lower. Oh and this is as well...
Spot on
Llyod failed to give us an option of Width throughout the whole 1st half and it amazes me people failed to see that, Not once did he hang wide and stretch play (like a winger should) he continually come inside and made us narrow on more than 1 occasion he was berrated for not going wide by Bailey, Dailey Semedo.
Doubled up on well i wont comment about that for the 2nd half as i was in the west and i didnt see that i will re watch the shite performance tonight to see,
Sam should be ripping this league apart he is a much better player than he has shown this season and is head and shoulders above 2 bob defenders like last night
in the first half he was up against a clown of a full back who Lloyd was too scared to attack, Yet in the first 1 min of the 2nd half he delivered a great cross why because he attacked him and got past him
Richardson ran the full length of the pitch and got past the Fullback more than once, If sam wouldve done that from half the distance he would have killed the guy, the full backs touch was woefull his distribution poor an ideal candidate for a speedy tricky winger yet once again he failed to do his job.
the guy deserves criticism that he is getting he is no longer the youngster the prospect he needs to now deliver the promise that he has shown in spits and spurts in his whole career here
Rommedahl, Ambrose, Bouazza, Lee Cook, Scott Sinclair, Jerome Thomas all lazier than Lloyd Sam who makes an effort to track back and help out his full back yet still offers more attacking threat than most.
I wouldn't mind betting that any other league 1 club (including Leeds and Norwich) would bite your arm off to have Sam in their team as would a fair few Championship clubs.
well i bloody do they were total shit the lot of them
All Sh!t.
Agree with an earlier post that Richardson was flying past their left back but didn't have the quality to cross it at the end. Now if Richardson can be that direct and get past him with ease then I'm sure someone with the technical ability of Sam is more than capable. But he didn't. Would of been interesting to see how Wagstaff would have played out there last night.
Orient weren't great and we probably didn't deserve to lose the game considering the opportunities we wasted.
* CommentTime6 minutes ago
quote# 42
Cant really say Sam played badly last night but its becoming a bit depressing how just about every attack we have has to go through him or else we end up hoofing it upfield. We desperately need something on the left... If a team wants to beat us they know that there best option is to double up on Sam and try and mark him out of the game. He cant take on a team by himself and we are beginning to look like a team very short of ideas
Good point!
He isn't that type or winger though. He might not sprint down the line and charge into space like many want him to, but he still creates chances in his own way every game. The stepovers don't really bother me, they had no major effect either way, but I was pleased to see him create a decent number of chances.
this is the bit that most seem to be missing Sam did not try to get past the defender he did not try in the 1st half at all
for him to have tried to get past him i wouldve seen it we were on that side level with the Corner flag insted Sam went inside looking for the ball and caused us to be very narrow,
When he did get the ball he went inside not outside
What chances did he create in the first half 1 off the top of my head when he went inside easiest days work for the Fullbacks of Orient last night
He's not a goalscorer like Wagstaff is, but Wagstaff doesn't have as quick feet or as good a cross. Different type of wingers.
EDIT that was in reply to The Red Robin
He needs to go past defenders on the outside and put a ball across the box that is his job and for the last 2 home games he has failed to do that IMO.
If he was doing his job and the strikers were missing the chances from his crosses then the only people to get the blame would be them
2nd half i was on the oposite side so i wont say that he didnt try and kept getting tackled or doubled up on but it certainly didnt look that way to me.
he has shown so much promise in the chumpionship yet a league lower he can not it does not make sense
In a higher league he gets more space as less teams sit back against us. He's still near the top of the assists table with 8 (I think), plus 4 goals and all the missed chances he creates.
but he aint Nolly what is he now 25??
By going past the defender causes the attackers to get in the box, he does not get past the full back so there is no need for the attckers to go in there
if he started getting past them i bet the strikers would be in there
but that is all i can recall him doing i, i taped it so i will rewatch it tonite
" Lloyd Sam was your best player going forward and the only one that actually threatened our defence I was surprised by how poor both Bailey and Shelvey were as they both possess quality though"
Vinnie makes a good point which was discussed when Burton was up front on his own. Sam often had to try and pick out 1 or 2 players in a crowded box, and he's not one to just swing hopeful balls into the box. Not as bad now we play 442 but Mooney isn't exactly a good target in the air.