[cite]Posted By: heavenSE7[/cite]I find it embarassing that Jonjo might read this thread, but then everyones entitled to thier opinions I guess.
IMO jonjo is an awesome player and i'm glad that happend to him last night as it made him let the football do the talking and must have matured him as a player.
WTF why should he or you be embarrassed or alarmed (I'm sure he's not) folk are giving him a litle bit of advice that's all not crucifying the fella, where the hell does that come from?..Don't you think that he was told the very thing I and others are saying......... both at half time and after the game..you BET he was!
I too hope very much he learned from last night and I'm sure he did because if he didn't then I and a lot of others are going to be somewhat dissapoined in the near future.Like every red blooded Addick I want to see Jonjo out there for every game if possible.
I've only just got around to reading this thread - in one go from top to bottom. And I didn't really see ANYONE having a go at the boy. People were just expressing a bit of concern because WE DON'T WANT HIM TO GET SENT-OFF!!! What's wrong with that? Seems his manager had the same concern, too...
We're all 100 per cent supportive of Jonjo. Surely you know that? And that's why a lot of people were concerned. If we didn't care so much about him, we wouldn't have been bothered...
i think everyone needs to back of cant take the fire out the kid, look at rooney for instance take that away and you dont get the full rooney. players have to play with passion, yes not over the top but bit early to say he is that sort of player
on yesterdays challenges, first one of what i saw yes he flew in but got the ball. was a foul but nothing more not even a booking, the second was a shoulder more then elbow and if he did accidentally that was momentum trying to header the ball there was no agression in it do not feel warranted a booking at all but maybe got booked for combination of both tackles which is a little harsh.
I thought after he got the card at first he held back and kept a clear head and second half went for it but was careful and had a good head on him, so what i can see he has a calm head about him and to keep doing what he did yesterday MOM performance for me IMHO
Well, he's only 17, he scored probably one of the best half-volleys I have probably seen from a Charlton player (although it was probably flattered by the angle from which I was watching) and was totally committed.
Yes, his temperament is of the Rooney variety (or, in Capelloesque terms, be described as ' hesa cray-see, cray-see man'!) but that can be worked on and I'm sure he will be severely reprimanded for his two outbursts of petulance, as well as the prank with the ball-boy at the end to soak up the last few minutes (even though it was quite funny). After all, there's more than plenty of time for him to develop, and with the recession we might just-just- hold on to him until at least the January transfer window or longer, and this will make all the difference to his value and our promotion prospects. Not that I would easily let him leave
If anything, we can just file this under 'misplaced commitment' or over-enthusiasm. If he was jogging around the pitch half-arsed, then we'd have more reason to be concerned.
could be mate, but im just calling how i see it, im not saying that my decision is right and final just merely putting my opinion accross which i can see is differrent from most of the ppl on here lol
nevermind eh? we got the win, good performance and regardless to what ppl think fact is jonjo stayed on pitch. but like u say im sure he has learnt from last night and hopefully he can continue to improve as there is plenty he can still improve. in fairness before last night didnt really think shelvey was as good as everyone was saying but thought he had potential so im not a avid shelvey fan or related unlike Uncle lol
[cite]Posted By: johnnybev1987[/cite]could be mate, but im just calling how i see it, im not saying that my decision is right and final just merely putting my opinion accross which i can see is differrent from most of the ppl on here lol
nevermind eh? we got the win, good performance and regardless to what ppl think fact is jonjo stayed on pitch. but like u say im sure he has learnt from last night and hopefully he can continue to improve as there is plenty he can still improve. in fairness before last night didnt really think shelvey was as good as everyone was saying but thought he had potential so im not a avid shelvey fan or related unlike Uncle lol
Yup uncle did over react a bit there............we all love Jonjo(I think uncle knows that well enough) but the lad isn't beyond a little bit of criticism or advice(even from a few of us old 'uns on the terraces),he's just a kid with a lot to learn.I wish for all the world I could change places with him I know that much....what a future lays ahead of him doing the thing that he and all of us here love best....the lucky sod!
From what I know of him, he'll have learned from last night and it was patently obvious that someone somewhere had pulled him aside at half time and read him the riot act..and more to the point how well he must have listened, he was different mustard in that second half.
As someone here has already said no one wants Jonjo sent off, there was a danger in the 1st half that he would - even if you deem his early actions were totally legal, we have seen players sent off for them. We don't want him to be any less committed in chanelling his energies.His commitment in the 2nd half was no less than the 1st, but he channelled them constructively and thats what we want to see. As for the guy calling him shite, well apart from the Orient fans he would ahve been one on his own and should not be seen by anyone as reflecting the sensible fans at charlton
I like Jonjo and i like Uncle and can see why he's defending his nephew...
I like the fire in Jonjo's play and if he can use that fire better as he gets older and reads the game more he will be the best english midfielder - ala Gerrard or Lampard.
the first tackle in the first minute was right in front of me and it is exactly how Ketman said it tough fair block tackle not how the people in corporate on the other side of the ground saw it.Sorry soundas i cant comment on the elbow as it was your side of the ground,but the first tackle was hard but fair.Al mate dont rise to the bait mate, he's class and I for one will cherish every moment he is with us.
I'm 800 miles away and all I saw of last night were the two goals. Just read this thread; I really understand how it makes you feel, especially after reading about the idiot his Dad had to deal with. But I really think most of the people here have got JonJo's best interests at heart. I know SoundAs personally and he's almost as old as me. So we've seen a bit. We've seen that its a professional game with some cynical nasty bastards in it. The way those bastards see it is; JonJo's a special player, and if we can get him sent off, we're more likely to beat Charlton, and that's our job. A lot of people here just want to tell JonJo to look out for those bastards, and not to let them think he's vulnerable to a wind up. From what little I've seen of him I think he's got a good temperament, but he's 17, and so they will wind him up while they can.
But its also good that you come on here and hit back, its part of what makes having JonJo at Charlton such a great thing. It reminds fans that footballers are also people, with hopes and fears, and they have families. And i wanna tell you. I'll be there on Saturday from Prague, and of course I'll be up for it because of our start; but the chance to see JonJo again -when in May I really didnt expect to -well its something much bigger. Like I said to you before, JonJo carries all our hopes on his young shoulders, the hope that we will once again be a GOOD team with players that other clubs fans admire and fear. So I just wanna tell you this and thank you for always coming on here, and to thank everybody who's given me the chance to see JonJo in a Charlton shirt again.
Oh and just one more thing. Football attracts all sorts of people. There will always be some idiots. Don't kid yourself that there aren't just as many at Upton Park. If you don't believe me, ask Alan Curbishley.
I have no reason to doubt the valued opinions of Messrs Peacock, Foley or Brown though the latter two were not exactly angels but I wonder what would be their view if he had been sent off. Would he have been seen as UNLUCKY? it was a first challenge. Did he really intend to make contact with the elbow/ forearm?
One thing all would have agreed on is at this level and all levels south you have to earn the right to play. To me that was all he was trying to do. Was he overzealous? Probably but that is the way of youth and he showed he learned from the experience and delivered. He will be a better player for it.
He has an edge to his game. If he had not would he be in the side? Semi professional football is full of talented players who are semi professional because they do not have that edge.
His talent will mean he is the focus of attention and unwarranted comment. Though I do not doubt the good intentions of this debate, sadly some people go to games (West Ham, East Ham and all points east included) just to shout abuse at any & everyone. It goes with the territory.
The bottom line - aged 17 he has been part of a team that has overcome significant challenges to win their first 3 league games of the season. He, his family (and us) have every right to be proud of his progress.
I think people need to just accept its part of jonjos game!I remember a certain young lee bowyer going in for some cringing tackles but the lad couldnt help it!It was the way he played, one particular occasion sticking out being the millwall game when curbs had told bowyer not to get wound up and within 25 minutes he got sent off!It was in his game and its in jonjos!Much the same as scotty parker as well! I know that jonjo being sent off would mean us being down to literally nothing in terms of back up!But if he didnt have that "hot blood" in his game, he wouldnt be the same player.... The bottom line is...he is 17 years old, he is still learning!
I sat with Johnnybev and agree with him. The first challenge did look worse than what it was. Shelvey looked to have won the ball very cleanly. He was up for the game. The 2nd one was more to do with going up ot win the ball, nothing malicious. With the first challege (the only thing ref did right) was to have a word with Shelvey.. if only if he didnt it couldve sparked a nasty derby.. so he got in there to diffuse the situation.... that was one bit of good reffing. He was crap the rest of the game (ref that is not Shelvey)
It was very evident that later on.. he did withdrew a few challenges and held back to avoid a 2nd yellow. It was a 50/50 ball but realised if he had misstimed it... rightly or wrongly he wouldve gone.. that shows great maturity and a good head... most other players sod the consequences......
as I said to John.. up until yesterday his performances were poor (only by his high standrard) but last night it was pure class. and long may it continue !!
Didn't see anything wrong with the first tackle from where I was sitting. That's exactly what I want our midfielders to be doing. Wasn't dangerous, just went in hard and fairly and got the ball. Didn't see his booking properly but just looked like he was making a challenge in the air, could'nt see too much wrong with it, but in all fairness my view wasn't the best for that one. Lot of over-reacting going on here IMHO. Hope Jonjo keeps doing what he's doing.
I love the fact Uncle posts on here and has become part of our wider group, and in turn through it i hope we've become a bit more than just the club his talented nephew plays for.
What i love most about the fact he posts here is not the different insight it gives, but the impact it haves on others when talking about Jonjo. Regardless of what Unc thinks (he's naturally biaised), I sense a slight reluctance of people on here to criticise or comment on Jonjo in the same way they would about other players because they know full well that his family will read it, and probably Jonjo himself. I think most hold back what they would say, or try and articulate what they want to say in a softer way. And i like that to a certain extent because you are bringing the person attached to the kit into your assessment, as you would if you were talking to someone face to face.
On the flip side, Uncle (and others if they are in a similar position, i'm sure the families of most players read these sort of sites) are going to have to learn that in crowds of thousands of people, there are always going to be idiots that slag off their boy. Sometimes justified, but 95% of the time not. And for your own sanity and enjoyment, no matter how hard it is, your just going to have to let it go.
Sometimes its going to be very personal and awful to swallow, but if you rise to it then you will spend the next 15 years either arguing or scrapping with idiots who are ignorant, rude, drunk, offensive or insulting. And you will pretty much find someone in that category at every game.
Don't envy you at all, it must be the proudest feeling in the world seeing someone you're close to breaking through, but unless you learn to laugh it off and pity the know-nothing idiot, then it will always eat away at your enjoyment.
Comment. Fair play Uncle, I wouldn't expect anything other than total support from you. Equally the original post was fairly balanced. There can't be any addick who doesn't love the boy. And the idea that west ham don't get on players backs is ridiculous. They do. Ask iain dowie......er anyway!we're a broad church like all teams. It never fails to amaze me, different takes on the game.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]What i love most about the fact he posts here is not the different insight it gives, but the impact it haves on others when talking about Jonjo. Regardless of what Unc thinks (he's naturally biaised), I sense a slight reluctance of people on here to criticise or comment on Jonjo in the same way they would about other players because they know full well that his family will read it, and probably Jonjo himself. I think most hold back what they would say, or try and articulate what they want to say in a softer way.
Absolutely spot on.
Kelly Youga - mate, if you're reading this get yer grandad on here pronto.
Your average mark per game in AFKA's sticky will rise by at least 1.0 and you won't need to spend so long wading through an English dictionary trying to find the latest four letter word used to describe your performance... ;-)
I was thinking about youga when I wrote my post. I know you're replying to uncle there, but not long ago I suggested youga wasn't much good and got told I had " no understanding of football". Either that was youga himself posting, or we all see the game different!
Jesus......were you lot never 17? Come on give him a break.....he will settle down... You could tell he was up for it before the game with the way he responded to the crowd.....top lad and Im sure Uncle and the rest of the family are justly proud, I know I would be.
I agree with what Tel says - it does mean Jonjo will get booked on occasions but I would much rather have that than some of the insipid performances we have seen from so-called members of our team over the last 2 or 3 years.
What hasn't been mentioned here (I think) is that the game has changed and what was seen as a great full blooded challenge 10 years ago,is now not allowed.
Jon-Jo's sliding challenge at the start would have been excellent 10 years ago, now though the like of Rob Styles and Mike Reilly would have sent him off I reckon.
The second incident, accidental elbow or forearm (whatever) should have earned him a red card for recklessness, I remember Koncheskey being sent off by Reilly at The Valley against either Liverpool or Man U for a lesser offence.
I reckon he would have definitely been off if it wasn't for the fact that both incidents were in front of the Charlton fans, which saved him in my opinion.
If he continues in this vein he will be sent off on more than one occasion this season. (IMO)
NB I also believe referees favour the bigger teams and this also went in his favour on Tuesday.
NB Uncle I am not having a pop at Jon-Jo I would say the same about any individual, he definitely reminds me of Rooney / Gazza at a similar age and I love him to bits.
A few points here uncle I don't think anyone backing Charlton ever wants Jonjo to get sent off they just see him walking a tight rope with some of things he does.
Having had the warning in the 1st minute he needed to settle and to put that tackle that resulted in the yellow in the same half left him walking a tighter rope. He managed to play out the rest of the game without getting involved which was all well and good but in another scenerio he could have walked.
The lad has got a great future ahead of him but he still needs to learn and develop and I'm sure the management will have a little chat abouyt the good and not so good things he done last night.
i cant begin to imagine how hard it is watching a close family member from the stands of a professional football match when there are clueless idiots in the stands shouting things like that. Ive found it hard myself to not turn round and have a pop at someone who clearly is on another planet/one too many pints.
And you can see how quickly small pockets or even 1 or 2 people can build a bad rep for everyone else.
Ah, the beauty of forums. Everyone has an opinion & everyone believes their opinion is right. It's easy to talk about someone who is somewhat detached from you & call it friendly advice. But to then be surprised when a family member reacts the way Uncle did, is the most interesting part of this thread. I will wager that if it were your nephew 90% of you would have reacted the way Uncle did. I know i would & do. You see i have a nephew who is a couple of years older than Jonjo. They both have had to go through more in their young lives than most of us will ever have to. Thankfully for both they are hugely talented in something that gives them the opportunity to focus & achieve things that help them get through life. Believe me, Jonjo has the right attitude. It's the one thing thats got him to where he is still wearing that beautiful smile of his. Let those closest to him give him advice. Seems to me they've done a sterling job so far.
Comments
WTF why should he or you be embarrassed or alarmed (I'm sure he's not) folk are giving him a litle bit of advice that's all not crucifying the fella, where the hell does that come from?..Don't you think that he was told the very thing I and others are saying......... both at half time and after the game..you BET he was!
I too hope very much he learned from last night and I'm sure he did because if he didn't then I and a lot of others are going to be somewhat dissapoined in the near future.Like every red blooded Addick I want to see Jonjo out there for every game if possible.
I've only just got around to reading this thread - in one go from top to bottom. And I didn't really see ANYONE having a go at the boy. People were just expressing a bit of concern because WE DON'T WANT HIM TO GET SENT-OFF!!! What's wrong with that? Seems his manager had the same concern, too...
We're all 100 per cent supportive of Jonjo. Surely you know that? And that's why a lot of people were concerned. If we didn't care so much about him, we wouldn't have been bothered...
on yesterdays challenges, first one of what i saw yes he flew in but got the ball. was a foul but nothing more not even a booking, the second was a shoulder more then elbow and if he did accidentally that was momentum trying to header the ball there was no agression in it do not feel warranted a booking at all but maybe got booked for combination of both tackles which is a little harsh.
I thought after he got the card at first he held back and kept a clear head and second half went for it but was careful and had a good head on him, so what i can see he has a calm head about him and to keep doing what he did yesterday MOM performance for me IMHO
Yes, his temperament is of the Rooney variety (or, in Capelloesque terms, be described as ' hesa cray-see, cray-see man'!) but that can be worked on and I'm sure he will be severely reprimanded for his two outbursts of petulance, as well as the prank with the ball-boy at the end to soak up the last few minutes (even though it was quite funny). After all, there's more than plenty of time for him to develop, and with the recession we might just-just- hold on to him until at least the January transfer window or longer, and this will make all the difference to his value and our promotion prospects. Not that I would easily let him leave
If anything, we can just file this under 'misplaced commitment' or over-enthusiasm. If he was jogging around the pitch half-arsed, then we'd have more reason to be concerned.
nevermind eh? we got the win, good performance and regardless to what ppl think fact is jonjo stayed on pitch. but like u say im sure he has learnt from last night and hopefully he can continue to improve as there is plenty he can still improve. in fairness before last night didnt really think shelvey was as good as everyone was saying but thought he had potential so im not a avid shelvey fan or related unlike Uncle lol
lol supposed to be a whisper to asa£ woops
What did he do?
From what I know of him, he'll have learned from last night and it was patently obvious that someone somewhere had pulled him aside at half time and read him the riot act..and more to the point how well he must have listened, he was different mustard in that second half.
I like the fire in Jonjo's play and if he can use that fire better as he gets older and reads the game more he will be the best english midfielder - ala Gerrard or Lampard.
I'm 800 miles away and all I saw of last night were the two goals. Just read this thread; I really understand how it makes you feel, especially after reading about the idiot his Dad had to deal with. But I really think most of the people here have got JonJo's best interests at heart. I know SoundAs personally and he's almost as old as me. So we've seen a bit. We've seen that its a professional game with some cynical nasty bastards in it. The way those bastards see it is; JonJo's a special player, and if we can get him sent off, we're more likely to beat Charlton, and that's our job. A lot of people here just want to tell JonJo to look out for those bastards, and not to let them think he's vulnerable to a wind up. From what little I've seen of him I think he's got a good temperament, but he's 17, and so they will wind him up while they can.
But its also good that you come on here and hit back, its part of what makes having JonJo at Charlton such a great thing. It reminds fans that footballers are also people, with hopes and fears, and they have families. And i wanna tell you. I'll be there on Saturday from Prague, and of course I'll be up for it because of our start; but the chance to see JonJo again -when in May I really didnt expect to -well its something much bigger. Like I said to you before, JonJo carries all our hopes on his young shoulders, the hope that we will once again be a GOOD team with players that other clubs fans admire and fear. So I just wanna tell you this and thank you for always coming on here, and to thank everybody who's given me the chance to see JonJo in a Charlton shirt again.
Oh and just one more thing. Football attracts all sorts of people. There will always be some idiots. Don't kid yourself that there aren't just as many at Upton Park. If you don't believe me, ask Alan Curbishley.
One thing all would have agreed on is at this level and all levels south you have to earn the right to play. To me that was all he was trying to do. Was he overzealous? Probably but that is the way of youth and he showed he learned from the experience and delivered. He will be a better player for it.
He has an edge to his game. If he had not would he be in the side? Semi professional football is full of talented players who are semi professional because they do not have that edge.
His talent will mean he is the focus of attention and unwarranted comment. Though I do not doubt the good intentions of this debate, sadly some people go to games (West Ham, East Ham and all points east included) just to shout abuse at any & everyone. It goes with the territory.
The bottom line - aged 17 he has been part of a team that has overcome significant challenges to win their first 3 league games of the season. He, his family (and us) have every right to be proud of his progress.
Grapevine 49
I know that jonjo being sent off would mean us being down to literally nothing in terms of back up!But if he didnt have that "hot blood" in his game, he wouldnt be the same player....
The bottom line is...he is 17 years old, he is still learning!
It was very evident that later on.. he did withdrew a few challenges and held back to avoid a 2nd yellow. It was a 50/50 ball but realised if he had misstimed it... rightly or wrongly he wouldve gone.. that shows great maturity and a good head... most other players sod the consequences......
as I said to John.. up until yesterday his performances were poor (only by his high standrard) but last night it was pure class. and long may it continue !!
Lot of over-reacting going on here IMHO. Hope Jonjo keeps doing what he's doing.
What i love most about the fact he posts here is not the different insight it gives, but the impact it haves on others when talking about Jonjo. Regardless of what Unc thinks (he's naturally biaised), I sense a slight reluctance of people on here to criticise or comment on Jonjo in the same way they would about other players because they know full well that his family will read it, and probably Jonjo himself. I think most hold back what they would say, or try and articulate what they want to say in a softer way. And i like that to a certain extent because you are bringing the person attached to the kit into your assessment, as you would if you were talking to someone face to face.
On the flip side, Uncle (and others if they are in a similar position, i'm sure the families of most players read these sort of sites) are going to have to learn that in crowds of thousands of people, there are always going to be idiots that slag off their boy. Sometimes justified, but 95% of the time not. And for your own sanity and enjoyment, no matter how hard it is, your just going to have to let it go.
Sometimes its going to be very personal and awful to swallow, but if you rise to it then you will spend the next 15 years either arguing or scrapping with idiots who are ignorant, rude, drunk, offensive or insulting. And you will pretty much find someone in that category at every game.
Don't envy you at all, it must be the proudest feeling in the world seeing someone you're close to breaking through, but unless you learn to laugh it off and pity the know-nothing idiot, then it will always eat away at your enjoyment.
And that will be a real shame.
Absolutely spot on.
Kelly Youga - mate, if you're reading this get yer grandad on here pronto.
Your average mark per game in AFKA's sticky will rise by at least 1.0 and you won't need to spend so long wading through an English dictionary trying to find the latest four letter word used to describe your performance... ;-)
I agree with what Tel says - it does mean Jonjo will get booked on occasions but I would much rather have that than some of the insipid performances we have seen from so-called members of our team over the last 2 or 3 years.
Jon-Jo's sliding challenge at the start would have been excellent 10 years ago, now though the like of Rob Styles and Mike Reilly would have sent him off I reckon.
The second incident, accidental elbow or forearm (whatever) should have earned him a red card for recklessness, I remember Koncheskey being sent off by Reilly at The Valley against either Liverpool or Man U for a lesser offence.
I reckon he would have definitely been off if it wasn't for the fact that both incidents were in front of the Charlton fans, which saved him in my opinion.
If he continues in this vein he will be sent off on more than one occasion this season. (IMO)
NB I also believe referees favour the bigger teams and this also went in his favour on Tuesday.
NB Uncle I am not having a pop at Jon-Jo I would say the same about any individual, he definitely reminds me of Rooney / Gazza at a similar age and I love him to bits.
Having had the warning in the 1st minute he needed to settle and to put that tackle that resulted in the yellow in the same half left him walking a tighter rope. He managed to play out the rest of the game without getting involved which was all well and good but in another scenerio he could have walked.
The lad has got a great future ahead of him but he still needs to learn and develop and I'm sure the management will have a little chat abouyt the good and not so good things he done last night.
And you can see how quickly small pockets or even 1 or 2 people can build a bad rep for everyone else.
That is exactly what he is doing.
If he'd done that at Chelsea away at Man U, Liverpool, West Ham etc in front of their supporters, I'm confident he'd have been sent off.
So the positive is he is learning in the right place.