[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]i didnt sing the anti IRA song last night as i choose not to, as with the incest song. f i felt like it i may or may not. I swear at footie but try not to be OTT when there are young kids about. Its my choice. I dont do it because ohhhhh dear f**k me it might upset the pc element .
yes lets please please please please please have a total sterile atmosphere where we all get along and maybe we can shout encore -- bravo , bravo every now and again
thats if we all agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bravo gooner hater bravo after all these message you still don't get it.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]what songs can we sing.
and Good bye Horse how does that "inspire" the team[/quote]
Well there's Valley Floyd Road...
I agree our songs/chants aren't that numerous (are they at other clubs?) but reverting to stereotypical chants that are neither funny nor original isn't the way to go.
How sad. Best away attendance in yonks. Weve won our 1st 3 games of the season since.... Well I cant remember and we're arguing about what songs should or shouldnt be sung.
FFS! No wonder everyone thinks we're trainspotters with no passion!!
the reason I don't like the no surrender song is that is a symbol of nationalist bigotry and intolerance, which if enough people stood up and said was wrong we might not get into ridiculous situations like NI, and indeed pretty much every other war in the first place - the politics of hate which it represents is the reason our soldiers have to go to place like that and get shot for no reason other than bigoted indoctrinated intolerance.
Pretty sure it's easy to drown out the moronic chants if it's just a minority of people chanting them. I didn't hear any racist or IRA related chants were I was.
The point I was trying to make is that songs are only that.
Songs!
I wouldn't feel intimidated by them but equally I wouldn't bring my kids to away games until they were old enough to know what was going on, it's intimidating for a little person to be in a crowd at a tube station let alone a packed stadium with people chanting and generally letting off steam. It's unfair to expect otherwise to be honest. At home you can take kids into the family bit or one of the stands along the side of the pitch, at aways it's a bit different.
Not only that but if they come home and repeat what they hear to their mothers that is not the fault of the fans that is the fault of them being impressionable and probably coming to football before they really understand what is ok and not ok.
Before I get told off by anyone, I appreciate some kiddies are more difficult and may have some problems with this but as bing says, it's about boundaries and some little people need them set with a bit more vigour than others. I still to this day don't use some of my more colourful language in front of my mum or other women, and never repeated what I heard or saw at football when I was a nipper as I didn't want to eat a bar of cussons!!
[cite]Posted By: Charlton Dan[/cite]How sad. Best away attendance in yonks. Weve won our 1st 3 games of the season since.... Well I cant remember and we're arguing about what songs should or shouldnt be sung.
FFS! No wonder everyone thinks we're trainspotters with no passion!!
My issue isn't the songs, although there are songs I don't or wouldn't sing, but the implication that you are not a proper fan unless you stand, drink, swear and abuse anybody who questions that behaviour.
There are enough posts on this thread to suggest that others have similar concerns.
Some people are proud to be associated with a family club others want to be Millwall.
some prick in another thread tells everyone who was in block D to f**k off as he didnt like a chant and go his ticket first which was in A block.He goes on to say we (CAFC) dont need their fare weather support . Could of course said that alot of tickets had no designation and you stood or sat where you wanted and had nothing to do with the date on which you brought your ticket.These people crime was singing 442.
3,000 people there and all you can do is twat on about "the wrong type of song" ------get a life.
[quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]the reason I don't like the no surrender song is that is a symbol of the nationalist bigotry and intolerance, which if enough people stood up and said was wrong we might not get into ridiculous situations like NI, and indeed pretty much every other war in the first place - the politics of hate which it represents is the reason our soldiers have to go to place like that and get shot for no reason other than bigoted indoctrinated intolerance.[/quote]
Razil, if you look at the class of person who think that singing "No surrender" is cutting edge political stuff then you'd realise that you are wasting your time trying to drill sense into them, unless that is you have a drill in which case go right ahead...These plebs think that waving a union jack and waxing lyrical about my country being right or wrong rarely understand the intricacies of politics.
Besides that it's somewhat out of date - someone needs to tell those singing it that the "troubles" in NI ended some time ago, even the Unionist thugs have laid down their arms and singing something that every other club does is pretty unoriginal. Mind you we are dealing with a community that like to shout seig heil whenever we play against a German...
I'm inclined to agree with what goonerlover is saying here people
Len, I don't think people want anything to do with millwall or to look like them. Put yourself in their heads for a bit. Young lads, out on the beer and whatever for an away day. You would get a bit over-excited and play up to the crowd and group wpuld you not that's all they are doing? They are in with their mates and call it peer pressure or whatever you want it's what young men do when they're charged up. They'll grow out of it, it's just the way they want to support the club at the age they are at. They don't want to intimidate any of our fans mate.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]
Besides that it's somewhat out of date - someone needs to tell those singing it that the "troubles" in NI ended some time ago, even the Unionist thugs have laid down their arms and singing something that every other club does is pretty unoriginal. Mind you we are dealing with a community that like to shout seig heil whenever we play against a German...
Far from over mate, just not in the papers as much. There are still plently of problems there
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]the reason I don't like the no surrender song is that is a symbol of the nationalist bigotry and intolerance, which if enough people stood up and said was wrong we might not get into ridiculous situations like NI, and indeed pretty much every other war in the first place - the politics of hate which it represents is the reason our soldiers have to go to place like that and get shot for no reason other than bigoted indoctrinated intolerance.
Im 25, i go with mates, we have a few beers before the game. At no point do i ever consider abusing other charlton fans. People here have said they have been the subject of abuse just because they dont sing or stand. Thats not on. Just enjoy the atmosphere, the game and the company of fellow CAFC supporters. Its not that hard, as 3000 supporters will tell you from last night.
[cite]Posted By: Carter[/cite]I'm inclined to agree with what goonerlover is saying here people
Len, I don't think people want anything to do with millwall or to look like them. Put yourself in their heads for a bit. Young lads, out on the beer and whatever for an away day. You would get a bit over-excited and play up to the crowd and group wpuld you not that's all they are doing? They are in with their mates and call it peer pressure or whatever you want it's what young men do when they're charged up. They'll grow out of it, it's just the way they want to support the club at the age they are at. They don't want to intimidate any of our fans mate.
I'm sure what you say is right for the majority.
Unfortunately it is the minority who are capable of ruining the day / evening for those who don't fit their stereotype.
When I was young I enjoyed a beer (sometimes rather more than one) but I never knowingly invaded other peoples space and if asked to keep the noise down I did.
This whole debate can really be summed up by one word: CONSIDERATION.
Neither side of the argument is listening to the other.
My view is football is football and songs will be sung and things said that we don't all agree with or like. Get over it and enjoy yourself. If it gets to the point where you don't like the content of the songs or you don't like the fact its become sterile then stop going. Simples....
At the Hartlepool match there were 550 fans, these were made up of the very young, the very old and every age group inbetween including small groups of friends, families, individuals, married couples etc. The 'singers' sat/stood behind the goal at the back, which is traditional, many sat on the left, and many sat on the right....
The only time the fans showed any real 'unity' was when we came out at the start, scored the two goals, end of half time, start of the second half, the great Robbie Elliot save, and the final whistle, everything else was made up with the great vocal support of the 'choir', the odd communal rendition of VFR and usual 'C'mon Charlton' type hollers from the many individuals at regular intervals...
As a supporter for over forty years and having been to many, many away games the Hartlepool scenario was typical of every match I've ever been to, there'll always be those that sing their hearts out for the lads, those that sit quietly and those with the big mouth that like to shout out in a crowd...
Although I wasn't at the Orient game I wouldn't mind betting that due to the law of averages the crowd reaction and behaviour was exactly the same as the Hartlepool match but increased by a factor of six. That means there would be an increase in singing, and increase in passive behaviour and an increase of everything else inbetween....
Agree with Carter red zed and Charlton Dan, apart from his rant at me, he spends all game at the back of the H block telling me to sidaarn and keep quiet as he can't hear the announcer, I'm sure he would be happier at shutrhurst where he would be among friends.
As we were in Prague I gave my ticket and my palace mates ticket away for wycombe.
My brother took his 8 year old to the wycombe game and he must of had a sheltered life supporting man utd from the calm of chelsfield as my brother said one of their players was on the deck playing up and the fans around were shouting wanker! Wanker! At him. My nephew asked my brother why the fans were telling him to wake up, was he pretending to be asleep? Still he seemed to enjoy the game and they will both be back Saturday, perhaps another convert in the offing.
Agree with Carter red zed and Charlton Dan, apart from his rant at me, he spends all game at the back of the H block telling me to sidaarn and keep quiet as he can't hear the announcer, I'm sure he would be happier at shutrhurst where he would be among friends.
As we were in Prague I gave my ticket and my palace mates ticket away for wycombe.
My brother took his 8 year old to the wycombe game and he must of had a sheltered life supporting man utd from the calm of chelsfield as my brother said one of their players was on the deck playing up and the fans around were shouting wanker! Wanker! At him. My nephew asked my brother why the fans were telling him to wake up, was he pretending to be asleep? Still he seemed to enjoy the game and they will both be back Saturday, perhaps another convert in the offing.
We all go to games united behind our team why are we arguing about how we should and should not behave? It's a well known fact that at football matches there's swearing, if people can't accept that or are offended by it, they should probably go and watch another sport, but from experience even at rugby matches, and motor racing events you still hear it. Equally we're all individuals and some may just wish to take in the game and watch the team, and if some can't accept that they should go and watch another sport, or go to a gig or something.
The great thing about football is it transcends race, gender, class and just about every other social grouping. I go to games with people I'd never have met outside of football, and it's one of the reasons I like going to games so much. I have a sing, some of my mates sit on their hands, but I accept them and they accept me, and we have a great time! Why can't we all just accept that, get along with each other and hopefully support the lads to promotion!
Does it really matter? Just because some fans are not singing etc. does not mean they are any less "passionate" about Charlton. I don't think any fan needs to prove how much he/she loves the club by singing the same few songs over and over again.
Comments
and Good bye Horse how does that "inspire" the team[/quote]
Well there's Valley Floyd Road...
I agree our songs/chants aren't that numerous (are they at other clubs?) but reverting to stereotypical chants that are neither funny nor original isn't the way to go.
FFS! No wonder everyone thinks we're trainspotters with no passion!!
The point I was trying to make is that songs are only that.
Songs!
I wouldn't feel intimidated by them but equally I wouldn't bring my kids to away games until they were old enough to know what was going on, it's intimidating for a little person to be in a crowd at a tube station let alone a packed stadium with people chanting and generally letting off steam. It's unfair to expect otherwise to be honest. At home you can take kids into the family bit or one of the stands along the side of the pitch, at aways it's a bit different.
Not only that but if they come home and repeat what they hear to their mothers that is not the fault of the fans that is the fault of them being impressionable and probably coming to football before they really understand what is ok and not ok.
Before I get told off by anyone, I appreciate some kiddies are more difficult and may have some problems with this but as bing says, it's about boundaries and some little people need them set with a bit more vigour than others. I still to this day don't use some of my more colourful language in front of my mum or other women, and never repeated what I heard or saw at football when I was a nipper as I didn't want to eat a bar of cussons!!
My issue isn't the songs, although there are songs I don't or wouldn't sing, but the implication that you are not a proper fan unless you stand, drink, swear and abuse anybody who questions that behaviour.
There are enough posts on this thread to suggest that others have similar concerns.
Some people are proud to be associated with a family club others want to be Millwall.
3,000 people there and all you can do is twat on about "the wrong type of song" ------get a life.
Razil, if you look at the class of person who think that singing "No surrender" is cutting edge political stuff then you'd realise that you are wasting your time trying to drill sense into them, unless that is you have a drill in which case go right ahead...These plebs think that waving a union jack and waxing lyrical about my country being right or wrong rarely understand the intricacies of politics.
Besides that it's somewhat out of date - someone needs to tell those singing it that the "troubles" in NI ended some time ago, even the Unionist thugs have laid down their arms and singing something that every other club does is pretty unoriginal. Mind you we are dealing with a community that like to shout seig heil whenever we play against a German...
Len, I don't think people want anything to do with millwall or to look like them. Put yourself in their heads for a bit. Young lads, out on the beer and whatever for an away day. You would get a bit over-excited and play up to the crowd and group wpuld you not that's all they are doing? They are in with their mates and call it peer pressure or whatever you want it's what young men do when they're charged up. They'll grow out of it, it's just the way they want to support the club at the age they are at. They don't want to intimidate any of our fans mate.
LOL
I'm sure what you say is right for the majority.
Unfortunately it is the minority who are capable of ruining the day / evening for those who don't fit their stereotype.
When I was young I enjoyed a beer (sometimes rather more than one) but I never knowingly invaded other peoples space and if asked to keep the noise down I did.
This whole debate can really be summed up by one word: CONSIDERATION.
Sadly a significant minority has none.
;-)
Neither side of the argument is listening to the other.
My view is football is football and songs will be sung and things said that we don't all agree with or like. Get over it and enjoy yourself. If it gets to the point where you don't like the content of the songs or you don't like the fact its become sterile then stop going. Simples....
The only time the fans showed any real 'unity' was when we came out at the start, scored the two goals, end of half time, start of the second half, the great Robbie Elliot save, and the final whistle, everything else was made up with the great vocal support of the 'choir', the odd communal rendition of VFR and usual 'C'mon Charlton' type hollers from the many individuals at regular intervals...
As a supporter for over forty years and having been to many, many away games the Hartlepool scenario was typical of every match I've ever been to, there'll always be those that sing their hearts out for the lads, those that sit quietly and those with the big mouth that like to shout out in a crowd...
Although I wasn't at the Orient game I wouldn't mind betting that due to the law of averages the crowd reaction and behaviour was exactly the same as the Hartlepool match but increased by a factor of six. That means there would be an increase in singing, and increase in passive behaviour and an increase of everything else inbetween....
It ain't rocket science, just human nature....
As we were in Prague I gave my ticket and my palace mates ticket away for wycombe.
My brother took his 8 year old to the wycombe game and he must of had a sheltered life supporting man utd from the calm of chelsfield as my brother said one of their players was on the deck playing up and the fans around were shouting wanker! Wanker! At him. My nephew asked my brother why the fans were telling him to wake up, was he pretending to be asleep? Still he seemed to enjoy the game and they will both be back Saturday, perhaps another convert in the offing.
As we were in Prague I gave my ticket and my palace mates ticket away for wycombe.
My brother took his 8 year old to the wycombe game and he must of had a sheltered life supporting man utd from the calm of chelsfield as my brother said one of their players was on the deck playing up and the fans around were shouting wanker! Wanker! At him. My nephew asked my brother why the fans were telling him to wake up, was he pretending to be asleep? Still he seemed to enjoy the game and they will both be back Saturday, perhaps another convert in the offing.
We finally ACTUALLY WIN SOME BLOODY MATCHES and all people can go about is singing etc!
Saying that there are some *very* strange people that go. . . . lol
The great thing about football is it transcends race, gender, class and just about every other social grouping. I go to games with people I'd never have met outside of football, and it's one of the reasons I like going to games so much. I have a sing, some of my mates sit on their hands, but I accept them and they accept me, and we have a great time! Why can't we all just accept that, get along with each other and hopefully support the lads to promotion!
All joking aside. Great point. We could do with keeping this in mind at times.
But people who sit have no less passion than thise who stand
I would rather stand at away games all day long but last night showed that you can get a decent atmosphere even if you sit.
As a passionate england fan I agree that no surrender should be sung at engand games not charlton