Not a moan as it was one of the better ones, esp as I was near the back and able to stand all game.
But it seems we have 50% who are as passionate as any fans around. Have pride, want to get behind the team, stand, sing etc. (Basically your avearge away support for most teams)
Then we have the other 50% who want to sit, seem emotionaly detached (im not saying they all are) but thats the impression looking at them. Can't even get out their chair when we are attacking, have a corner etc and only clap along to the der der der songs and Red Army.
Like I said, not a moan - but is there such a noticeable divide at any other club? It's like two completley different supports.
I like the unreserved seating as it at least lets both sides of the divide enjoy the match day experience in the way they like too.
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I brought my 10 year old who has problems with rules and boundaries and I need to set him some kind of example of consideration for others around him. Given half a chance he'd be climbing on the chairs and becoming the youngest person ejected for foul and abusive language. Sitting has nothing to do with passion, it's about choices, rules and consideration.
On a more general note I think people were pretty involved last night, yes maybe we/they don't all stand etc but it doesnt mean they have less pride in the team etc.
As I said, difficult one.
To be fair i reckon that most away followings at Orient and West Ham sing that so it's not exactly a new one.
However I did stand at corners and other times and even sing a bit, I regretted not having a few swift pints beforehand tho.
Some want us to be an idealized unit of 'ultras', which would be great for atmosphere but in todays 'dry' all seater stadia this sort of group mentality is lessening, certainly with us. Also I would agree we do have a diverse support not sure its a two way split tho.
Interesting that Orient make a similar mistake to us - i.e. away fans in the stand with the best acoustics, home fans in the homogenized new areas with the result being zero noise from the home fans.
Unreserved seating is great if you don't have huge stantions in the way and traffic nightmare on the way in...
I didn't say it was ok did i? Things get sung at football matches every week that will offend someone somewhere though, from abusing opposition fans, managers, players, the ref. It's just the way football is.
The fact though is that football has changed a bit and some newer fans etc are not going to understand or want to get involved in the more agressive and controversial type stuff.
Maybe that's the answer to The Organiser's question, football has changed, the way you support your club has changed. I don't think it is specific to Charlton either, I think it is probably quite common across the country.
I think its because different people want different things. To some a live game of football is entertainment. To others its life and death. Each to their own I say.
The probability is that the two contrasting types of fan will have differing attitudes.
I guess the truth of the matter is that some people would rather we were not a family club and more like Millwall. I think the yobby chavvy element resent those who just wish to watch a game of football. One reason I rarely attend away games as being a family man I am the "wrong type" of fan and have no wish to run the risk of getting engaged in hostile dialogue or worse if I politely ask people to sit so that children with me can see the match.
I think the unreserved seating works well as it sorts out alot of the problems that would have otherwise happened last night.
IT'S THE LAW.
Dunno why you suggest that singing means you 'have pride' cos that's all lost mate when we're losing singing 'we've got more fans than you' and 'shit ground no fans' - to LEYTON ORIENT!! Just sounds thick. Thought the ground was decent enough (apart from our stand) and of course we have more fans but what of it? Doesnt really prove anything as we have more fans than Wigan and Fulham too. We have no beef with the O's dunno where the anomosity came from. Was a bit embarassing.
Anyway, been going to Charlton for long enough to know that for most people it's not just about just singing and bouncin'. I wouldn't say it's a divide, its the norm at all clubs mate.
Who are you to say how a fan should support his team? Some people might not want to sing or stand up. Maybe they care more about the game than what other people think of them. Maybe that look of boredom you see is actually intense concerntration. Maybe they have done their time at the back and now want a quieter life.
Why not be grateful that we have fans who care enough to go and not concern yourself so much with how other people choose to show they care.
Actually Len, I go to most away games these days and most fans are considerate, especially if you have kids with you. Yesterday was brilliant for me and my lad - a fantastic night with thousands of Addicks around you celebrating in their own way. As said before, trying to put divides on peoples behaviour based around subjective assumptions as to who is passionate and who is not because they do or don't stand, sing etc is wrong in my view. People exhibit their passion for the club in different ways. Some can't get to away games easily, are they less passionate about the club that those who can? Some don't to many home games, are they less passionate?
The originally post, I think, highlights a false dichotomy
But why should you need to stand up for every corner or free kick? Unless it's impossible to see the ball from your seat, there's no need. It has nothing to do with passion.
It's sad that this happens. My parents no longer attend away matches for the same reasons.
OK I take your point. Unreserved seating certainly worked better yesterday but I tried to meet up with two mates yesterday and couldn't because we were in different sections so it wasn't completely a case of sit where you want.
On the wider issue of our fans v others, maybe then, the problem is the lack of inclusiveness at other clubs and not at ours?
That is very sad but my experience is, on the whole, Charlton away fans are considerate enough, especially when it comes to kids and to the more senior supporters.
There are few that are louder than me at games, and of course of i want noisy, passionate, intimidating support. Two minutes into a game singing No Surrender isn't for me, so i moved. Equally sitting on my hands detatched from the vocal side of proceedings isn't for me either.
But i'm not going to moan about our support in any way, we are what we are. And last night we were pretty much excellent, and i believe played a real part in getting us a win.
around belvedere or abbey wood a group (6) of morons who support Charlton came in and sat in the middle of families f... g this f..... g that c.nt this c.nt that... non spot. I didn't really bother me that much as I expect a small minority of idiots to act like that, but not infront of parents, children and oap's ...
The funniest thing is that whilst givin' it large 1 palace supporter came on with his missus so they started swearing a him so the palace supporter took the mikey out of them and told them 'come here if your going to insult me and bring your friends'... but none of them had the bottle. what a bunch of numpties
so because I sit I'm emotionally detached ? Bollox. I'm as hoarse as anyone today and I sat all game. You don't have to stand to have pride and get behind the team just as you don't need to have drunk four pints to sing either. Others of us too have standards and I refuse to sing songs such as the insest song or that the East End is like Bengal. I'd turn your question around and ask are there many other clubs who have as many fans who are such tools. And I havn't even started on what the elderly and kids are supposed to do ......
Me - being an old geezer I sit and shout and sing the better known songs and stand and jump about when we score or other exciting moment. I must admit that I don't like some of the more extreme songs, but that's my problem!
there is always one. At Bristol City year before last my Dad, 72, asked a drunken fan in front to please sit down or move. He turned round and called him a c*nt. Suffice to say a row ensued and he was offered out by a couple of youngsters who seemed more happy to have a fight than I did. He moved elsewhere. Why do people need to be so abusive to anyone yet alone their own fans, especially elder one's.
If you dont like swearing -- naughty songs etc GO TO CHURCH sing a hymn !