[quote][cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]A 1-1 draw with welling, no he's not. Ok a friendly but obviously not instilled the "every game is a must win" mentality.[/quote] Is a pre-season friendly against Welling a "must win"?[/quote]
Of course the result against Welling is not important as if it were a cup or league match but, it sets a tone of player mentallity. Our best seasons going on from these build up games have been when we have won most of them.
However in fairness we are in a state of transition so hopefully things will improve as Parkinson rebuilds the squad.
To early to tell whether he is doing good or bad, however his 2 signings suggest he is trying to get more physical presence and aerial power in the defence which was needed. When Ward joined us we started to look stronger at the back for the same reason.
The acid test will be sorting out the striker's issue mainly and keeping a strong unit for the midfield.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]A 1-1 draw with welling, no he's not. Ok a friendly but obviously not instilled the "every game is a must win" mentality.
Is a pre-season friendly against Welling a "must win"?
Of course the result against Welling is not important as if it were a cup or league match but, it sets a tone of player mentallity.
"If Parkinson had any courage or self-belief, he would have resigned at the end of last season. If he had any self-respect, he would have already left."
I think it is more likely that self belief that keeps him in the job. One trait that is common amongst most professional sports people is that they have great belief in their own abilities. Perhaps he believes he can turn us around - If so, I certainly hope he's right. Though I do get the feeling that some people would prefer him to fail so that they can say, "told you so". It takes great courage to remain in a post in the face of public criticism, I think he should be applauded for that not derided. Finally being employed is one of the biggest factors in maintaining self-respect, if he believes that the post is worthwhile and that he can do it, how could that be a sign of low self respect?
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]the question was "since stuffing Norwich, has he done a good job so far "
In the circumstances I don't think he could have done much either way as by all accounts he is working with at least one hand tied behind his back and is being constrained by the wage cap put on him by the club.
Then again, the two players he has broght in don't instil me which much hope for the coming season. Llera was frankly non-discript on wednesday evening and by all accounts richardson is seen as no loss by many Leeds fans. I'd far rather we didn't bring any one in than bring in a load of dross - so far Parky has signed 4 players (burton, Spring, Llera & richardson) and i'm pretty sure none of them will be in the running for player of the season come May next year.
He could, of course, force the directors hand by resigning, thus making them act ........
Gordon Bennett Golfie, how doom laden can you get ? How can you possibly think that none of the new signings will make player of the year ? Have you seen either properly ? I doubt it. I thought I was a moaner but not close compared to you.
I have no inside knowledge, but, if I was buying a football club that had been relegated and had a manger whose record since taking over was poor I would want to put my own man in. The club were never going to sack Parkinson and employ somone else whilst a takeover was in the offing. Parkinson has probably been told by the board, "if the takeover falls through you can stay if it goes through then its up to the new board."
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]A lot of people seem to know for sure that Parky is going to be dumped by the new owners.
If you've spoken to them and they've told you that then fine but can you let the rest of us know who they are, why they are taking so long to complete the deal and what their other plans are.
A lot of people seem to think they know !!!
I just wonder how many of these people they say he should have done the decent thing and walked, would have actually walked themselves, what with employment being as it is now. And who do they actually think they are going to get in to replace him. Ferguson , Wenger ???
If Parky thinks he is a decent manager he should have walked because he would have had confidence in getting himself a new job, after all he's good. If he isn't any good, and knows it, then he is doing us a great disservice by staying and should do the decent thing and walk. As to whom should replace him? Frankly I'd have a lot more confidence in Uncle himself doing a decent job than I do Parky.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]An alternative scenario could be that Parkinson offerred to walk at the end of last season, Murray and the Board requested him to stay, to see through the transition to new owners and settle the playing staff while this was completed. Unfortunately this has taken longer than expected and the board have asked him to stay longer than orginally agreed, which he has accepted out of loyalty to the people that gave him a chance to get back into managment.
is this the same Board that, in the shape of RM, told us he was going to be sacked ??
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]A lot of people seem to know for sure that Parky is going to be dumped by the new owners.
If you've spoken to them and they've told you that then fine but can you let the rest of us know who they are, why they are taking so long to complete the deal and what their other plans are.
A lot of people seem to think they know !!!
I just wonder how many of these people they say he should have done the decent thing and walked, would have actually walked themselves, what with employment being as it is now. And who do they actually think they are going to get in to replace him. Ferguson , Wenger ???
Agree completely its a job just like yours or mine, maybe I should have walked but i can tell you with the way tihngs are at the moment anyone jacking in there job has to have a back up plan. If his choice is have money for his family or sit around all day worrying where the mortgage money is coming from of course his gonna stay, its unreasonable to think otherwise if the board dont want him then they will have to do what all other businesses have to do and sack him.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]A 1-1 draw with welling, no he's not. Ok a friendly but obviously not instilled the "every game is a must win" mentality.
Is a pre-season friendly against Welling a "must win"?
If you are fighting for your job and have a hell of a lot to prove to a bunch of loyal yet disallusioned fans who paid a tenner to stand in the elements on a wet wednesday night then yes.
Pre season friendlies are for developing match fitness.
Pre season friendlies are for trialling new players.
Pre season friendlies are for assessing whom plays best best with who.
Pre season friendlies are for assessing squad strenths and weaknesses.
Pre season friendlies are for trying out new tactics.
Pre season friendlies are for for practicing.
Then, and only then, is winning them important.
Agree to a degree but also dont forget that it was the same for welling. I remember having a rant on another forum when we lost to Bromley pre-season (2 years ago?) and was shot down saying that the results are meaningless etc before going onto have a poor season.
Whilst i wouldnt want any of our players risking injury in such a game and dont even expect them to play near 100% as they get their fitness back, accomodate new players and regain their sharpness from a psychological point of view i still think that we should win such games. As i say the welling players were under the same conditions as you point out, and ok could be argued that they might try harder in the hope of catching someones eye but also to a degree our players should be fighting for a place next season and making it easy for the manager to formulate his strongest team.
After the disaster of last season surely the fans, the players and the manager himself are in dire need of a few confidence boosting pre season results to build spirits and a winning mentality so we hit the ground running when the season kicks off proper. Not expecting us to win 3-0 as im not that naieve but yes i do expect a team of professionals (2nd half) to get more than a draw at welling in effectively a home game.
As for keeping the players togehter i very much doubt parkinson had a significant influencein keeping players there (please correct me those in the know if im wrong) as he is unsure of his future so i doubt any players would base their careers on the premise hell be in charge in 2 seasons. No i think they have stayed for the club and cos they know they will benefit by staying. Also with the hudson sale im sure it was the board calling the shots there...if a takeover is on the cards and with the notion that parkinsons future isnt 100% stable then he wouldnt be authority on such issues particularly when finances are under great scrutiny at present.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]An alternative scenario could be that Parkinson offerred to walk at the end of last season, Murray and the Board requested him to stay, to see through the transition to new owners and settle the playing staff while this was completed. Unfortunately this has taken longer than expected and the board have asked him to stay longer than orginally agreed, which he has accepted out of loyalty to the people that gave him a chance to get back into managment.
is this the same Board that, in the shape of RM, told us he was going to be sacked ??
Did he really say that? That seems a very strange way to run a business, telling customers that a manager is going to be sacked before actually doing the deed. The HR manager must have had a screaming fit on that day.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite]Well I think Uncle might know a little about the team spirit and if he says Parky is doing his job I aint the man to disagree![/quote]
Team spirit could well be good, but if we are left with a manager who can't inspire the team, tactically outthink a manager at half time and one who continues to have very poor results in a results driven business - I don't give a monkey's how the team spirit is - if we're winning games, it's better than losing games - and I think the ethos of a professional footballer is that on the whole, by and large, if the team they are playing for or are part of a squad of are winning and they're getting their win bonuses and the crowd appreciate the wins, then they are happy!
So, Parky is judged on results. It would be nice to spank all before us in pre-season - however, what matters is come the start of the season and how we get on in the league. Is Parkinson going to do a good job at that? On paper - his record would say no.
Is there another established top tier club in the world where there'd be a serious debate about whether a manager (that had just spirited them into the third tier of the game the year after being relegated following a record run of poor results a series of unimpressive signings, tactical faux pas and a few spectacular late capitulations) is "doing a good job"?
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]Is there another established top tier club in the world where there'd be a serious debate about whether a manager (that had just spirited them into the third tier of the game the year after being relegated following a record run of poor results a series of unimpressive signings, tactical faux pas and a few spectacular late capitulations) is "doing a good job"?
It's why I both love and despair for Charlton.
Agree 100%.
Like people saying the bankers are doing a great job at getting the economy back on track.
Our fans can make you laugh and cry - that's why we are Charlton I suppose. How any of us can want to keep our worst manager in history is beyond belief. Money or no money - nobody has ever done worse for us in our history!
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]It's why I both love and despair for Charlton.
Agreed, but most level-headed fans see he came in with the club on it's knees from Pardew and Dowies shenanigans, a poor squad, a club in freefall across all areas. Sure he failed to turn the tide but I don't think he was singularly to blame for our relegation, he then finds himself not backed by the board waiting to see if a takeover happens and he'll likely be gone, no takeover he stays. As others have said who is going to walk out on a job in this climate, I don't suppose he has Pardews millions. I'd wait for a pay-off too in his boat. I'm not saying he should stay, results suggest otherwise, but give the guy a break, don't make him out as the scapegoat for all our problems.
Parkinson was there throughout pardew's reign and surely had some influence. That excuse could also be used for pardew after he inherited the mess post dowie and pardews results made him look more competent compared to parkinson's. I like the guy and on a human level it cant be nice for him to be so insecure and unsuccessful in his position but, without being callous there is a lot more at stake as a result of his management than simply his job as weve found out with relegation.
I'd agree with everything you say Nug, but he took over a squad in freefall that was good enough to stay up (oddly many of the camp that think he's doing OK - because of the difficult circumstances - were also hopeful that he'd keep us up, which strikes me as a paradox) with the right signings and effective management. Clubs have gotten out of much worse holes. He's only responsible for a relatively small slice of our problems and seems to be a genuinely decent man. I'd also wait for a pay off.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Parkinson was there throughout pardew's reign and surely had some influence. That excuse could also be used for pardew after he inherited the mess post dowie and pardews results made him look more competent compared to parkinson's. I like the guy and on a human level it cant be nice for him to be so insecure and unsuccessful in his position but, without being callous there is a lot more at stake as a result of his management than simply his job as weve found out with relegation.
No Pardew spent millions as well as Dowie, he had the backing to get us back up and should have been in the playoffs minimum. Parky is working with scraps in a massive cost-cutting exercise. Like I said I think the club probably needs a new manager, but I for one will not vilify Parky for where we are.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]So, the original question still stands: What could he - or anyone else - have done better over the Summer?
Nothing, the club is frozen until a takeover does or does not happen. We don't know who we can afford to keep, what we can offer out of contract players and who we can sign. Whoever was manager would have both hands tied at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]So, the original question still stands: What could he - or anyone else - have done better over the Summer?
Nothing, the club is frozen until a takeover does or does not happen. We don't know who we can afford to keep, what we can offer out of contract players and who we can sign. Whoever was manager would have both hands tied at the moment.
OK, thanks. So that's conclusive then. We have the best manager for the job right now!
Fair point Nug but success at our level last year isnt always about spending power as Leeds have shown and teams like swansea prove it is largely down to management and getting the best out of what you got as curbs did at our place. Parkinson was good at colchester and i think that it comes down to the chemistry you have with the crop of players at the time and the players you bring in. Curbs worked miracles at our place but didnt set world on fire at west ham even with the increased money. George graham was great at arsenal and millwall (I think?) but not as successful else where as was allardyce at bolton. Ok so its wrong to chop and change and not practical or affordable to do so in hope of finding that winning formula if you dont win every game but to keep hold of a guy who has the worst record since pre- curbs and "hoping" hell turn it round with an even weaker squad than last year where the football and competition will be just as competitive is hard to understand.
Ill happily eat my words if we are comfortably sat in the top six at christmas and good luck to parkinson as ill be backing him 100% when hes in charge but i doubt we will be and what happens if we are playing badly and he gets sacked/ resigns mid season when suitable replacements will be even more scarce and their performance if poor will be defended by the fact they inherited what parkinson left?
[cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]So, the original question still stands: What could he - or anyone else - have done better over the Summer?
Nothing, the club is frozen until a takeover does or does not happen. We don't know who we can afford to keep, what we can offer out of contract players and who we can sign. Whoever was manager would have both hands tied at the moment.
OK, thanks. So that's conclusive then. We have the best manager for the job right now!
I didn't say that. What manager is going to come in when the club's ownership and structure is so up in the air. How can the current board offer the job to someone else when they may not own it tomorrow.
By the way I am not defending his record, far from it. And I don't believe he will be here long-term. But I just don't get the vitriol dished out towards him regarding our current plight and the fact he's still here, based on the current state of our club.
Comments
Is a pre-season friendly against Welling a "must win"?[/quote]
Of course the result against Welling is not important as if it were a cup or league match but, it sets a tone of player mentallity. Our best seasons going on from these build up games have been when we have won most of them.
However in fairness we are in a state of transition so hopefully things will improve as Parkinson rebuilds the squad.
To early to tell whether he is doing good or bad, however his 2 signings suggest he is trying to get more physical presence and aerial power in the defence which was needed. When Ward joined us we started to look stronger at the back for the same reason.
The acid test will be sorting out the striker's issue mainly and keeping a strong unit for the midfield.
I think it is more likely that self belief that keeps him in the job. One trait that is common amongst most professional sports people is that they have great belief in their own abilities. Perhaps he believes he can turn us around - If so, I certainly hope he's right. Though I do get the feeling that some people would prefer him to fail so that they can say, "told you so". It takes great courage to remain in a post in the face of public criticism, I think he should be applauded for that not derided. Finally being employed is one of the biggest factors in maintaining self-respect, if he believes that the post is worthwhile and that he can do it, how could that be a sign of low self respect?
Gordon Bennett Golfie, how doom laden can you get ? How can you possibly think that none of the new signings will make player of the year ? Have you seen either properly ? I doubt it. I thought I was a moaner but not close compared to you.
If Parky thinks he is a decent manager he should have walked because he would have had confidence in getting himself a new job, after all he's good. If he isn't any good, and knows it, then he is doing us a great disservice by staying and should do the decent thing and walk. As to whom should replace him? Frankly I'd have a lot more confidence in Uncle himself doing a decent job than I do Parky.
is this the same Board that, in the shape of RM, told us he was going to be sacked ??
Agree completely its a job just like yours or mine, maybe I should have walked but i can tell you with the way tihngs are at the moment anyone jacking in there job has to have a back up plan. If his choice is have money for his family or sit around all day worrying where the mortgage money is coming from of course his gonna stay, its unreasonable to think otherwise if the board dont want him then they will have to do what all other businesses have to do and sack him.
Agree to a degree but also dont forget that it was the same for welling. I remember having a rant on another forum when we lost to Bromley pre-season (2 years ago?) and was shot down saying that the results are meaningless etc before going onto have a poor season.
Whilst i wouldnt want any of our players risking injury in such a game and dont even expect them to play near 100% as they get their fitness back, accomodate new players and regain their sharpness from a psychological point of view i still think that we should win such games. As i say the welling players were under the same conditions as you point out, and ok could be argued that they might try harder in the hope of catching someones eye but also to a degree our players should be fighting for a place next season and making it easy for the manager to formulate his strongest team.
After the disaster of last season surely the fans, the players and the manager himself are in dire need of a few confidence boosting pre season results to build spirits and a winning mentality so we hit the ground running when the season kicks off proper. Not expecting us to win 3-0 as im not that naieve but yes i do expect a team of professionals (2nd half) to get more than a draw at welling in effectively a home game.
As for keeping the players togehter i very much doubt parkinson had a significant influencein keeping players there (please correct me those in the know if im wrong) as he is unsure of his future so i doubt any players would base their careers on the premise hell be in charge in 2 seasons. No i think they have stayed for the club and cos they know they will benefit by staying. Also with the hudson sale im sure it was the board calling the shots there...if a takeover is on the cards and with the notion that parkinsons future isnt 100% stable then he wouldnt be authority on such issues particularly when finances are under great scrutiny at present.
Did he really say that? That seems a very strange way to run a business, telling customers that a manager is going to be sacked before actually doing the deed. The HR manager must have had a screaming fit on that day.
Team spirit could well be good, but if we are left with a manager who can't inspire the team, tactically outthink a manager at half time and one who continues to have very poor results in a results driven business - I don't give a monkey's how the team spirit is - if we're winning games, it's better than losing games - and I think the ethos of a professional footballer is that on the whole, by and large, if the team they are playing for or are part of a squad of are winning and they're getting their win bonuses and the crowd appreciate the wins, then they are happy!
So, Parky is judged on results. It would be nice to spank all before us in pre-season - however, what matters is come the start of the season and how we get on in the league. Is Parkinson going to do a good job at that? On paper - his record would say no.
It's why I both love and despair for Charlton.
Agree 100%.
Like people saying the bankers are doing a great job at getting the economy back on track.
Our fans can make you laugh and cry - that's why we are Charlton I suppose. How any of us can want to keep our worst manager in history is beyond belief. Money or no money - nobody has ever done worse for us in our history!
Agreed, but most level-headed fans see he came in with the club on it's knees from Pardew and Dowies shenanigans, a poor squad, a club in freefall across all areas. Sure he failed to turn the tide but I don't think he was singularly to blame for our relegation, he then finds himself not backed by the board waiting to see if a takeover happens and he'll likely be gone, no takeover he stays. As others have said who is going to walk out on a job in this climate, I don't suppose he has Pardews millions. I'd wait for a pay-off too in his boat. I'm not saying he should stay, results suggest otherwise, but give the guy a break, don't make him out as the scapegoat for all our problems.
But he's not doing "a good job".
No Pardew spent millions as well as Dowie, he had the backing to get us back up and should have been in the playoffs minimum. Parky is working with scraps in a massive cost-cutting exercise. Like I said I think the club probably needs a new manager, but I for one will not vilify Parky for where we are.
Nothing, the club is frozen until a takeover does or does not happen. We don't know who we can afford to keep, what we can offer out of contract players and who we can sign. Whoever was manager would have both hands tied at the moment.
Ill happily eat my words if we are comfortably sat in the top six at christmas and good luck to parkinson as ill be backing him 100% when hes in charge but i doubt we will be and what happens if we are playing badly and he gets sacked/ resigns mid season when suitable replacements will be even more scarce and their performance if poor will be defended by the fact they inherited what parkinson left?
I didn't say that. What manager is going to come in when the club's ownership and structure is so up in the air. How can the current board offer the job to someone else when they may not own it tomorrow.
100% agree with that