[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]To be fair, the issue of whether people's names should be published was discussed by the committee representing the staff, particularly in the context of the OTT tribute paid to the recently departed pitch announcer, in the programme and on the OS.
I for one felt it was quite bonkers that people who had been at the the club for years should leave by the back door with no acknowledgement, while the pitch announcer - who many of us couldn't stand - was lauded to the skies on leaving what was presumably a fairly minor part of his livelihood.
I think it was clear that staff felt specific consent was required from the individuals concerned and perhaps that hasn't happened, but that is where the idea originated.
That's how I read it - a clumsily sincere tribute rather than anything sinister.
[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]but the nature of the business must mean that this kind of thing is a risk you take when working for a football (or any other professional sporting) club
...because it makes you come across as pig ignorant
Or maybe just a realist as opposed to a self-righteous, pompous tosspot.
Good luck and best wishes to each and every one of the people on the list. It seems the CAFC website is the official way of telling the world that people are leaving the club. I sincerely hope the staff that are leaving were told before their name was published. Whilst in very different circumstances when I got the heave ho it was announced on the website before I had even been spoken to by anyone at the club.
This is either an honest tribute to the staff going or a major Gaff by the club. Only those affected can really decide which it is.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]The contempt I hold two of the people who were involved in making these redundancies holds no bounds, clueless is not even the word makes my blood boil & it doesn't even actually affect me. Still I have no doubt their time will come soon enough!
Ketman...sorry but I may be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick here.
Are you saying that you hold in contempt the people who were involved in making the redundancy list?
I'm puzzled...are you blaming the admin staff...the directors or the coaching and playing staff...cos to some degree or another they are ALL to blame?
Given that we've been relegated to the lower leagues just what are the club to do...keep on all these folk that we simply can't afford....someone had to do a very unpleasant job(there but for the grace of god go you or I)....the plain truth is some folk very sadly HAD to be laid off as a result. I've no doubt a great deal of soul searching and angst has taken place these last few weeks but tough decisions just HAD to be made as unpleasant as they have been.
As such, I'm having difficulty in understanding 'exactly' who it is you are so angry at?
[cite]Posted By: bc_addick[/cite]Good luck and best wishes to each and every one of the people on the list. It seems the CAFC website is the official way of telling the world that people are leaving the club. I sincerely hope the staff that are leaving were told before their name was published. Whilst in very different circumstances when I got the heave ho it was announced on the website before I had even been spoken to by anyone at the club.
This is either an honest tribute to the staff going or a major Gaff by the club. Only those affected can really decide which it is.
BC
There are two sides to that story, BC, as you know, but in any case the club was responding to a public event and needed to set out its position in public.
Obviously the legal formalities and personal elements of the redundancy process were done and dusted well before anything was put into the public domain. Most staff affected left in the middle of last week, i.e. ten days ago.
In terms of the need for redundancies, I think the club's financial predicament was acknowledged by all concerned. However, at the end of the process the club has made 14 staff redundant, most of them in fairly junior positions.
Anyone with a calculator can guesstimate that that financial impact of these redundancies - and indeed other savings achieved through the process - is marginal against the overall savings necessary, especially as there are costs attached to making people redundant.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]if i was you Airman i would edit the line re "most in junior positions" more than a tad insensertive to those thrown on the dole que.
I don't think it's insensitive - the point is that most of the people made redundant would not have been on above average salaries - but for example there is only one person there who held a managerial position (Suthers). That's just a matter of fact - it doesn't denigrate the people concerned or the loss they have suffered.
Is this a technicality, or am I behind the times...but my understanding of these things is that it is the position that is redundant rather than the person. It means that the position of assistant to the Chief Executive now can't be created (within a certain period of time?) or it would seem like victimisation of the previous post holder. Maybe I have it wrong.
I echo the comments above thanking the departing staff but we should also be told if Mr Waggot and other executives have taken a pay reduction. I will take any silence on this meaning a resounding 'NO'.
Why is it that fat cats are often the last to put their hands in their pockets...... (no I am not referring to the club directors just the management)
The posts cannot be refilled as you say. Posts can be combined and new posts created which have different job specs to those that have been made redundant. I think that the period of time for posts to remain redundant is six months
"Why is it that fat cats are often the last to put their hands in their pockets...... (no I am not referring to the club directors just the management)"
If you have been listening to MP's wriggling and justifying their use of allowances...e.g. Tam Dayell spending £18,000 on bookcases 3 months before leaving Parliament, then it is an example where the powerful feel they can declare and justify anything they like if it is within some kind of 'rule' (contract?) structure, whatever the morality of the situation. The powerful don't need logic, they tell each other they're right 'because you're worth it' !!
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]"Why is it that fat cats are often the last to put their hands in their pockets...... (no I am not referring to the club directors just the management)"
If you have been listening to MP's wriggling and justifying their use of allowances...e.g. Tam Dayell spending £18,000 on bookcases 3 months before leaving Parliament, then it is an example where the powerful feel they can declare and justify anything they like if it is within some kind of 'rule' (contract?) structure, whatever the morality of the situation. The powerful don't need logic, they tell each other they're right 'because you're worth it' !!
The fact is non-footballing staff are blameless in all this yet they, rather than a festering running sore like Christensen, are carrying the can for the collapse of our club.
That said the club is contracting so if the non-footballing staff are paying the price how do high earners like Waggott, Kavanagh and Capelin survive the cull?
I would have expected at least one of those to go given the contraction of the organisation.
Varney did the job on his own for many years and the likes of Capelin and Kavanagh only came in once we had grown into an established premiership club.
Sorry to be pedantic Len but Nigel Capelin as been with the club longer than Peter Varney as he joined in the summer of 97 a few months before Peter Varney came on board.
[cite]Posted By: JohnnyH2[/cite]Sorry to be pedantic Len but Nigel Capelin as been with the club longer than Peter Varney as he joined in the summer of 97 a few months before Peter Varney came on board.
Fair enough I stand corrected.
We still now have 3 people doing the work of two in a contracting organisation so my general principle still stands.
There is a very good reason why it's deemed neccessary at this point to have kept all three on the payrole...those who were at the Bromley meeting recently know why (I of course cannot go into detail folks)......other than to say it is fully justified.
[cite]Posted By: Tavern[/cite]names should not of been mentioned end of.
Good luck to you all though,very sad
Agree with the above. I will apologise for this if i'm wrong, but 2/3 years ago when the club let people go then, was not the employees who were being made redunudant, all named on the club's website at the time?
All this smoke and mirrors stuff, 'there are good reasons', 'the fullness of time', private conversations at semi-public meetings, no-one knowing what's happening, redundancies, what about the takeover, what about the manager...it drags on and on....none of which is driving me personally to buying my season ticket. Am I the only one fed up with the whole shambles? For those who have lost their jobs I am really sorry, and can only hope you all get sorted as soon as possible. Everybody knows you are victims here.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]All this smoke and mirrors stuff, 'there are good reasons', 'the fullness of time', private conversations at semi-public meetings, no-one knowing what's happening, redundancies, what about the takeover, what about the manager...it drags on and on....none of which is driving me personally to buying my season ticket. Am I the only one fed up with the whole shambles?
For those who have lost their jobs I am really sorry, and can only hope you all get sorted as soon as possible. Everybody knows you are victims here.
What Soundas says is true. I know it's difficult but we have to be patient and I am hopeful things will start to "move" in the next few weeks.
"There are two sides to that story, BC, as you know, but in any case the club was responding to a public event and needed to set out its position in public." Sorry Don't know how to do quotes.
Airman. If you'd like to tell me the other side of the story I'd like to hear it as some others may. The fact is I was sacked on the website and NO attempt was made to contact me before it was published. That is the simple fact of the matter and is why I hope those made redundant were aware they were appearing on the site.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]All this smoke and mirrors stuff, 'there are good reasons', 'the fullness of time', private conversations at semi-public meetings, no-one knowing what's happening, redundancies, what about the takeover, what about the manager...it drags on and on....none of which is driving me personally to buying my season ticket. Am I the only one fed up with the whole shambles?
For those who have lost their jobs I am really sorry, and can only hope you all get sorted as soon as possible. Everybody knows you are victims here.
Seth it's only a shambles(as you see it) because you don't know what's going on exactly....and despite my previous comment re The Bromley meeting (which you were quite welcome to attend...as are all true Addicks I may add) I don't know exactly what's going on either..... and rightly so why should I, I'm not putting any money up.
We know 'something' is going on and we'll just have to be patient....there's no shambles...you're just frustrated (and I can understand that) that you don't know exactly what....but then why should you.
The more you read this thread/board Seth the more you'll become frustrated I guess because there are a lot of truths and half truths coming out which we all can't quite fathom out at this stage....but I don't see it as a shambles....just a lot of idle rumours and frustrating speculation by some well meaning folk as well as those with other possibly mischevious agendas of whom, especially the later, we must all be on the watch out for.
Thanks all for your kind comments on here/facebook and by text!
Obviously quite upset about it at the mo, and the last 8 weeks have been hell, although I'm still here doing a handover for the next two weeks (not sure what that will entail!)
I wasn't asked about the name on the website personally, but I didn't mind it going up there either anyway.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]Thanks all for your kind comments on here/facebook and by text!
Obviously quite upset about it at the mo, and the last 8 weeks have been hell, although I'm still here doing a handover for the next two weeks (not sure what that will entail!)
I wasn't asked about the name on the website personally, but I didn't mind it going up there either anyway.
Anyone need a PA?
Suzi I'd like to think that if there was the need to re-recruit in a year or so that your name would be well up there on the list to 'make a comeback'.....that is of course assuming that's what you wanted to do.
I hope the same for the others too of course.
[cite]Posted By: bc_addick[/cite]"There are two sides to that story, BC, as you know, but in any case the club was responding to a public event and needed to set out its position in public."
Sorry Don't know how to do quotes.
Airman. If you'd like to tell me the other side of the story I'd like to hear it as some others may. The fact is I was sacked on the website and NO attempt was made to contact me before it was published. That is the simple fact of the matter and is why I hope those made redundant were aware they were appearing on the site.
That's not the club's version of events, but in any case it has no bearing on the situation of people losing their full time jobs under a different regime following a 30-day consultation process, involving collective and individual meetings.
Comments
That's how I read it - a clumsily sincere tribute rather than anything sinister.
Or maybe just a realist as opposed to a self-righteous, pompous tosspot.
Where's Parky?
Maybe if he was first on the list on January 1, the 14 on the list may not have been on any such list.
This is either an honest tribute to the staff going or a major Gaff by the club. Only those affected can really decide which it is.
BC
Ketman...sorry but I may be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick here.
Are you saying that you hold in contempt the people who were involved in making the redundancy list?
I'm puzzled...are you blaming the admin staff...the directors or the coaching and playing staff...cos to some degree or another they are ALL to blame?
Given that we've been relegated to the lower leagues just what are the club to do...keep on all these folk that we simply can't afford....someone had to do a very unpleasant job(there but for the grace of god go you or I)....the plain truth is some folk very sadly HAD to be laid off as a result. I've no doubt a great deal of soul searching and angst has taken place these last few weeks but tough decisions just HAD to be made as unpleasant as they have been.
As such, I'm having difficulty in understanding 'exactly' who it is you are so angry at?
There are two sides to that story, BC, as you know, but in any case the club was responding to a public event and needed to set out its position in public.
Obviously the legal formalities and personal elements of the redundancy process were done and dusted well before anything was put into the public domain. Most staff affected left in the middle of last week, i.e. ten days ago.
In terms of the need for redundancies, I think the club's financial predicament was acknowledged by all concerned. However, at the end of the process the club has made 14 staff redundant, most of them in fairly junior positions.
Anyone with a calculator can guesstimate that that financial impact of these redundancies - and indeed other savings achieved through the process - is marginal against the overall savings necessary, especially as there are costs attached to making people redundant.
I don't think it's insensitive - the point is that most of the people made redundant would not have been on above average salaries - but for example there is only one person there who held a managerial position (Suthers). That's just a matter of fact - it doesn't denigrate the people concerned or the loss they have suffered.
Maybe I have it wrong.
Why is it that fat cats are often the last to put their hands in their pockets...... (no I am not referring to the club directors just the management)
If you have been listening to MP's wriggling and justifying their use of allowances...e.g. Tam Dayell spending £18,000 on bookcases 3 months before leaving Parliament, then it is an example where the powerful feel they can declare and justify anything they like if it is within some kind of 'rule' (contract?) structure, whatever the morality of the situation. The powerful don't need logic, they tell each other they're right 'because you're worth it' !!
Spot on, mate, spot on!!!
That said the club is contracting so if the non-footballing staff are paying the price how do high earners like Waggott, Kavanagh and Capelin survive the cull?
I would have expected at least one of those to go given the contraction of the organisation.
Varney did the job on his own for many years and the likes of Capelin and Kavanagh only came in once we had grown into an established premiership club.
Fair enough I stand corrected.
We still now have 3 people doing the work of two in a contracting organisation so my general principle still stands.
3 people=1/2 jobs ?
Explain................
Good luck to you all though,very sad
Agree with the above. I will apologise for this if i'm wrong, but 2/3 years ago when the club let people go then, was not the employees who were being made redunudant, all named on the club's website at the time?
For those who have lost their jobs I am really sorry, and can only hope you all get sorted as soon as possible. Everybody knows you are victims here.
What Soundas says is true. I know it's difficult but we have to be patient and I am hopeful things will start to "move" in the next few weeks.
Sorry Don't know how to do quotes.
Airman. If you'd like to tell me the other side of the story I'd like to hear it as some others may. The fact is I was sacked on the website and NO attempt was made to contact me before it was published. That is the simple fact of the matter and is why I hope those made redundant were aware they were appearing on the site.
Seth it's only a shambles(as you see it) because you don't know what's going on exactly....and despite my previous comment re The Bromley meeting (which you were quite welcome to attend...as are all true Addicks I may add) I don't know exactly what's going on either..... and rightly so why should I, I'm not putting any money up.
We know 'something' is going on and we'll just have to be patient....there's no shambles...you're just frustrated (and I can understand that) that you don't know exactly what....but then why should you.
The more you read this thread/board Seth the more you'll become frustrated I guess because there are a lot of truths and half truths coming out which we all can't quite fathom out at this stage....but I don't see it as a shambles....just a lot of idle rumours and frustrating speculation by some well meaning folk as well as those with other possibly mischevious agendas of whom, especially the later, we must all be on the watch out for.
Obviously quite upset about it at the mo, and the last 8 weeks have been hell, although I'm still here doing a handover for the next two weeks (not sure what that will entail!)
I wasn't asked about the name on the website personally, but I didn't mind it going up there either anyway.
Anyone need a PA?
Suzi I'd like to think that if there was the need to re-recruit in a year or so that your name would be well up there on the list to 'make a comeback'.....that is of course assuming that's what you wanted to do.
I hope the same for the others too of course.
That's not the club's version of events, but in any case it has no bearing on the situation of people losing their full time jobs under a different regime following a 30-day consultation process, involving collective and individual meetings.