[cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]We have not got a pot to p*** in. What you would rather have Parky in charge, or no football club.
Don't go down the Kinsella route, cause it's not going to happen.
Neither but I dont think they are mutually exclusive. I dont think kinsella, as much of a charlton man he is, hes been part of the set up that has got us relegated much as parkinson was there in pardews tenure.
Parky could leave on mutally agreed terms and we could get a manager in on his salary or less surely?
i would love them to be relgated becoz until a so called big club is relegated people wont realise what a vermin the premiership and the gulf it creates is.I woz told this by a charlie wyatt fromt he sun,who said the gap is too big and no good for football a view i fully concur with
The Board will decide in the next two weeks re Parky, but don't think Kinsella is his replacement. If Parky goes, them IMHO KInsella and Chapple go as well.
Would be amazed if Parky is not confirmed in charge for next season, a few days after the Norwich game.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]i would love them to be relgated becoz until a so called big club is relegated people wont realise what a vermin the premiership and the gulf it creates is.I woz told this by a charlie wyatt fromt he sun,who said the gap is too big and no good for football a view i fully concur with
I seen dis on sky sportz n'all n dey r da bible n da gozpel when in cums 2 da mattaz ov da bootifull gayme. So it mus b tru innit.
[cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]We have not got a pot to p*** in. What you would rather have Parky in charge, or no football club.
Don't go down the Kinsella route, cause it's not going to happen.
Shirty. With all the best intentions that cant be the way to run CAFC Plc and the football club in 2009. Are you seriously saying that Parky has to stay because we cant afford the termination costs?
From a financial position the board are between a rock and something not soft. Sack Parkinson and incur the costs that and replacing him will involve or keep him and risk alienating fans and reducing season ticket renewals as has been touted on here.
It's not just one man (ie:parky) to go, if we get rid of Parky then the other 2 go as well, cause the maybe new man, will not want them. IMHO the board will leave it as it is.
Yeah IMHO we are going to have to be careful with every penny unless we get taken over.
I remember reading somewhere on here before that running costs in div 3 are around £5m p/a lower than in the championship? Is that right and if so wont that lessen the financial burden a fair whack?
I say it again, don't sack Parky, let him hang aroung warming up the blokes in training, or tending the goat or something, don't have to pay him off, sit him in a corner and ignore him.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I say it again, don't sack Parky, let him hang aroung warming up the blokes in training, or tending the goat or something, don't have to pay him off, sit him in a corner and ignore him.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]I remember reading somewhere on here before that running costs in div 3 are around £5m p/a lower than in the championship? Is that right and if so wont that lessen the financial burden a fair whack?
Yeh but the loss of tv revenue more than offsets that.
[cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]It's not just one man (ie:parky) to go, if we get rid of Parky then the other 2 go as well, cause the maybe new man, will not want them. IMHO the board will leave it as it is.
Yeah IMHO we are going to have to be careful with every penny unless we get taken over.
Why do the other 2 have to go? Why cant the Board have the balls to set out the vision they want and if the new manager doesnt want it. Well tough. Who is running the show. Who is paying for the journey. The Board and the fans. I appreciate that the profile of the new manager may not be what was expected by some fans but that is a separate decision.
I dont know you Shirty but I do know you have attended the Shareholders meetings and posted back with useful information and are clearly not a nutter.
It is clear finances are not good. But Richard Murray has said categorically that we will not go into Administration. That should in my mind leave scope for reasonable staff changes at all levels of the business. If that is not the case then Richard should not have said what he did.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]I remember reading somewhere on here before that running costs in div 3 are around £5m p/a lower than in the championship? Is that right and if so wont that lessen the financial burden a fair whack?
Yeh but the loss of tv revenue more than offsets that.
We will more than make up for that loss with our cup run next season and the additioanal tv rights from our subsequent UEFA cup campaign the following season!
For what it's worth I'm with you Callum.
I think Parky has repaired the shambles that Pardew left him with.
He's an easy target though, and he hasn't been good enough to turn things around results wise.
It takes some guts to stand up and say stick with him. There are no guarantees and he's likely to lose a lot of good players in the summer.
I think the younger me would have been screaming for a change of manager, but for what it's worth my gut feeling is to stick with him.
If we can possibly keep the nucleus of this side, the key to our revival is finding a proper striker, and Parky knows that.
[cite]Posted By: shirty5[/cite]The Board will decide in the next two weeks re Parky, but don't think Kinsella is his replacement. If Parky goes, them IMHO KInsella and Chapple go as well.
Would be amazed if Parky is not confirmed in charge for next season, a few days after the Norwich game.
I will be amazed if Parky is not given his walking papers.
Or put on extended gardening leave.
With one year remaining on his assistant manager's level contract, it won't be that expensive to terminate him or put him out to pasture. If he doesn't want to go on leave, he can always negotiate a buyout at a lower rate.
[cite]Posted By: Six-a-bag-of-nuts[/cite]I think Parky has repaired the shambles that Pardew left him with.
I think that's an important point. Our squad was broken, we had no confidence, couldn't score, couldn't keep goals out (no it's not perfect now, but it's a lot better), no belief, and injuries to Zheng, Racon, Fortune and worries about Shelvey without him being on a pro contract.
I don't think a new manager would have come in and turned it around as easily as some seem to think.
As I said on another thread I wouldn't trust Parky to run a tap.
Perhaps one of his admirers could tell me why, when they point out Pards left us with only 2 centre halves, did Parky sign five other loanees before he got a centre half in, and that was after Holland had to play there twice.
Perhaps they could also tell me why a player he admitted he had tracked for ages, Burton, can now only make the bench.
Perhaps they could tell my why another player he admired and could bring much needed nous to the central midfield cannot now hardly even make the bench, Spring.
Why have we probably spend close to 100k in wages for loanee right backs when the two brought in are not signoficantly better than the one we have, Moo2.
Why do we continually play one-up in must win games against teams like Donny, Watford, Blackpool none of whom were, the last time I looked, Barcelona.
Why did Parky not have the same impact on us as Billy Davies and Brendan Rodgers have had at there respective Clubs? Has a new broom there motivated and galvanised the same squads of players to propel them up the league? Yes. Strange that the Saints replaced the Manager with the Assistant as we have done and have ultimately got the same result.
In my opinion things havn't got significantly better and certainly not enough to keep Parky in a job. He is out of his depth. He was before at Hull and didn't learn anything from that experience. The squad is going to break up massively and so him 'knowing' the players will make little difference. Those out of contract, except perhaps Forch, will go. Others we will want to go because of their high wages whilst others we want to keep will want to go as they are good enough for a higher level. Those good enough for League 1 will stay. The time is right for a new broom. Last time we sacked the head and kept the handle. It hasn't worked. Learn from that mistake and give the handle the boot NOW.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Perhaps one of his admirers could tell me why, when they point out Pards left us with only 2 centre halves, did Parky sign five other loanees before he got a centre half in, and that was after Holland had to play there twice.
We know he was trying to get someone in, there was all the talk about Wayne Brown from Hull, and he did get Ward in eventually (who has done very well).
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Perhaps they could also tell me why a player he admitted he had tracked for ages, Burton, can now only make the bench.
Perhaps they could tell my why another player he admired and could bring much needed nous to the central midfield cannot now hardly even make the bench, Spring.
Yeah two mistakes but we had to get some players in and not much was available.
The signing of Spring confused me, we had plenty of CMs and he doesn't offer anything they can't. At least now he's realised he's very average and is only a squad player, at least at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why have we probably spend close to 100k in wages for loanee right backs when the two brought in are not signoficantly better than the one we have, Moo2.
Disagree, Murty was definitely an improvement. I like Yassin but there's obviously problems there.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why do we continually play one-up in must win games against teams like Donny, Watford, Blackpool none of whom were, the last time I looked, Barcelona.
Because it gives us a stronger team.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why did Parky not have the same impact on us as Billy Davies and Brendan Rodgers have had at there respective Clubs? Has a new broom there motivated and galvanised the same squads of players to propel them up the league? Yes. Strange that the Saints replaced the Manager with the Assistant as we have done and have ultimately got the same result.
There is one big difference between us and Forest & Watford. They have at least one or two good strikers. We didn't/don't. Gray can get a few, but I'd imagine was effected by his personal problems. After him who else is there? None of them can guarantee 15+ goals, but players at those clubs can.
Who should we get in? Not saying he should definitely stay, but I'm not sure there are all these fantastic managers out there dying for the chance to manage a club like Charlton.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Perhaps one of his admirers could tell me why, when they point out Pards left us with only 2 centre halves, did Parky sign five other loanees before he got a centre half in, and that was after Holland had to play there twice.
We know he was trying to get someone in, there was all the talk about Wayne Brown from Hull, and he did get Ward in eventually (who has done very well).
But that was months after he had taken charge. He also didn't deem it necessary until we were down to one fit CH.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Perhaps they could also tell me why a player he admitted he had tracked for ages, Burton, can now only make the bench.
Perhaps they could tell my why another player he admired and could bring much needed nous to the central midfield cannot now hardly even make the bench, Spring.
Yeah two mistakes but we had to get some players in and not much was available.
The signing of Spring confused me, we had plenty of CMs and he doesn't offer anything they can't. At least now he's realised he's very average and is only a squad player, at least at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why have we probably spend close to 100k in wages for loanee right backs when the two brought in are not signoficantly better than the one we have, Moo2.
Disagree, Murty was definitely an improvement. I like Yassin but there's obviously problems there.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why do we continually play one-up in must win games against teams like Donny, Watford, Blackpool none of whom were, the last time I looked, Barcelona.
Because it gives us a stronger team.
It may give us a stronger team, but not a winning one. We needed to win these games but he wasn't prepared to gamble. He was happy to take a point and say we are getting better we really we are not. All we are doing to shoring up midfield to stop us losing games but doing nothing to help us win games.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]Why did Parky not have the same impact on us as Billy Davies and Brendan Rodgers have had at there respective Clubs? Has a new broom there motivated and galvanised the same squads of players to propel them up the league? Yes. Strange that the Saints replaced the Manager with the Assistant as we have done and have ultimately got the same result.
There is one big difference between us and Forest & Watford. They have at least one or two good strikers. We didn't/don't. Gray can get a few, but I'd imagine was effected by his personal problems. After him who else is there? None of them can guarantee 15+ goals, but players at those clubs can.
So how many have Forest's top scorer got ? The point is both Rodgers and Davies took over squads facing relagation but motivated those same players to achieve so much more. If Calderwood and Bothroyd were in charge still they wouldn't be where they are now.
Who should we get in? Not saying he should definitely stay, but I'm not sure there are all these fantastic managers out there dying for the chance to manage a club like Charlton.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]But that was months after he had taken charge. He also didn't deem it necessary until we were down to one fit CH.
We don't know that though do we. How do we know he didn't try to sign someone?
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]It may give us a stronger team, but not a winning one. We needed to win these games but he wasn't prepared to gamble. He was happy to take a point and say we are getting better we really we are not. All we are doing to shoring up midfield to stop us losing games but doing nothing to help us win games.
He did play 4-4-2 for a while but it was doing any better. We then got ZZ and Racon back and played our best team. We have a weakness up front, so it gets our more talented midfielders in over very average and unreliable strikers.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]So how many have Forest's top scorer got ? The point is both Rodgers and Davies took over squads facing relagation but motivated those same players to achieve so much more. If Calderwood and Bothroyd were in charge still they wouldn't be where they are now.
Earnshaw with 11 (and another 5 in the cups), Garner another striker with 6 and Tyson with 5. Not loads but much better than us with Todorov, Waghorn, Varney etc with 1 or 2 each.
It's a fair point though, I wanted someone new at the time. But still looking back over the season we've not had much quality at all up front, which is causing problems for the team as a whole.
L, D, L, L, D, L, D, L, L, L, W, L, L, W, D, D, L, L, D, L, D, W, D, D, D
That's 19 points out of possible 75.
That is also one win in 11 matches with Racon, ZZ, Shelvey and Ward available for selection, so much much for improved results with the better players together.
And somehow some people here think that is even remotely acceptable? Or good enough to have faith in his management to be brought back next season?
As Derek Chappell told us, "it's all about results."
There are the results, and they are not good enough. Unless you are prepared to accept a continued downward spiral.
[cite]Posted By: American_Addick[/cite]Courtesy of the email list's Dick Sheppard:
Parky's record since taking the reigns:
L, D, L, L, D, L, D, L, L, L, W, L, L, W, D, D, L, L, D, L, D, W, D, D, D
That's19 pointsout of possible 75.
As Derek Chappell told us, "it's all about results."
that is why the man has to go there is no sustained improvement there just a run of no defeats at the end of the period where HE said there are 9 cup finals of which we have won 1 and got replays in other 5
Come on AA, not even Chappell himself belives what he said. The time to bin Parky was a just before we got him in as Pards: number two b, after the 8 game fiasco.
now he is in place, we have sunk to his level, we are losing the players who can get us back up - we might as well stick to him. At least we will have someone to blame when we dont get promoted next season, which will shield the board from some of the stick.
Anyhoo, the change is gonna come in the form of a takeover a sweep out and a rebuilding. The bloke serving the curry pasties in the north stand told me so
Ok, so let's have an alternative look at Parky's recent record. In his last 7 games he has won 1, drawn 5 & lost just 1 (away to top of the table Wolves). So that's 8 points from 7 games, which is the equivalent of 53 points over a 46 game season. That should be more than enough to keep us up. If you expand that to his last 12 games, he has won 2, drawn 7 & lost 3. 13 points from 12 games is the equivalent to 50 points from 46 games. Which would have at least have given us a chance of staying up. You can prove anything you like with statistics but as far as I'm concerned he is doing a decent job in an impossible situation, with a totally unbalanced team & not one single goalscoring striker worthy of the name. He will probably go at the end of the season anyway but thanks Phil & good luck for the future.
[cite]Posted By: American_Addick[/cite]Courtesy of the email list's Dick Sheppard:
Parky's record since taking the reigns:
L, D, L, L, D, L, D, L, L, L, W, L, L, W, D, D, L, L, D, L, D, W, D, D, D
That's19 pointsout of possible 75.
As Derek Chappell told us, "it's all about results."
that is why the man has to go there is no sustained improvement there just a run of no defeats at the end of the period where HE said there are 9 cup finals of which we have won 1 and got replays in other 5
Comments
Neither but I dont think they are mutually exclusive. I dont think kinsella, as much of a charlton man he is, hes been part of the set up that has got us relegated much as parkinson was there in pardews tenure.
Parky could leave on mutally agreed terms and we could get a manager in on his salary or less surely?
Would be amazed if Parky is not confirmed in charge for next season, a few days after the Norwich game.
I seen dis on sky sportz n'all n dey r da bible n da gozpel when in cums 2 da mattaz ov da bootifull gayme. So it mus b tru innit.
Shirty. With all the best intentions that cant be the way to run CAFC Plc and the football club in 2009. Are you seriously saying that Parky has to stay because we cant afford the termination costs?
They wont be sleeping easy tonight.
Yeah IMHO we are going to have to be careful with every penny unless we get taken over.
Hed sue us for constructive dismissal.
Yeh but the loss of tv revenue more than offsets that.
Why do the other 2 have to go? Why cant the Board have the balls to set out the vision they want and if the new manager doesnt want it. Well tough. Who is running the show. Who is paying for the journey. The Board and the fans. I appreciate that the profile of the new manager may not be what was expected by some fans but that is a separate decision.
I dont know you Shirty but I do know you have attended the Shareholders meetings and posted back with useful information and are clearly not a nutter.
It is clear finances are not good. But Richard Murray has said categorically that we will not go into Administration. That should in my mind leave scope for reasonable staff changes at all levels of the business. If that is not the case then Richard should not have said what he did.
We will more than make up for that loss with our cup run next season and the additioanal tv rights from our subsequent UEFA cup campaign the following season!
I think Parky has repaired the shambles that Pardew left him with.
He's an easy target though, and he hasn't been good enough to turn things around results wise.
It takes some guts to stand up and say stick with him. There are no guarantees and he's likely to lose a lot of good players in the summer.
I think the younger me would have been screaming for a change of manager, but for what it's worth my gut feeling is to stick with him.
If we can possibly keep the nucleus of this side, the key to our revival is finding a proper striker, and Parky knows that.
I will be amazed if Parky is not given his walking papers.
Or put on extended gardening leave.
With one year remaining on his assistant manager's level contract, it won't be that expensive to terminate him or put him out to pasture. If he doesn't want to go on leave, he can always negotiate a buyout at a lower rate.
Yes lets keep him on i mean he has only been here 3 seasons and we have improved so f**king much !
I think that's an important point. Our squad was broken, we had no confidence, couldn't score, couldn't keep goals out (no it's not perfect now, but it's a lot better), no belief, and injuries to Zheng, Racon, Fortune and worries about Shelvey without him being on a pro contract.
I don't think a new manager would have come in and turned it around as easily as some seem to think.
Perhaps one of his admirers could tell me why, when they point out Pards left us with only 2 centre halves, did Parky sign five other loanees before he got a centre half in, and that was after Holland had to play there twice.
Perhaps they could also tell me why a player he admitted he had tracked for ages, Burton, can now only make the bench.
Perhaps they could tell my why another player he admired and could bring much needed nous to the central midfield cannot now hardly even make the bench, Spring.
Why have we probably spend close to 100k in wages for loanee right backs when the two brought in are not signoficantly better than the one we have, Moo2.
Why do we continually play one-up in must win games against teams like Donny, Watford, Blackpool none of whom were, the last time I looked, Barcelona.
Why did Parky not have the same impact on us as Billy Davies and Brendan Rodgers have had at there respective Clubs? Has a new broom there motivated and galvanised the same squads of players to propel them up the league? Yes. Strange that the Saints replaced the Manager with the Assistant as we have done and have ultimately got the same result.
In my opinion things havn't got significantly better and certainly not enough to keep Parky in a job. He is out of his depth. He was before at Hull and didn't learn anything from that experience. The squad is going to break up massively and so him 'knowing' the players will make little difference. Those out of contract, except perhaps Forch, will go. Others we will want to go because of their high wages whilst others we want to keep will want to go as they are good enough for a higher level. Those good enough for League 1 will stay. The time is right for a new broom. Last time we sacked the head and kept the handle. It hasn't worked. Learn from that mistake and give the handle the boot NOW.
We know he was trying to get someone in, there was all the talk about Wayne Brown from Hull, and he did get Ward in eventually (who has done very well).
Yeah two mistakes but we had to get some players in and not much was available.
The signing of Spring confused me, we had plenty of CMs and he doesn't offer anything they can't. At least now he's realised he's very average and is only a squad player, at least at the moment.
Disagree, Murty was definitely an improvement. I like Yassin but there's obviously problems there.
Because it gives us a stronger team.
There is one big difference between us and Forest & Watford. They have at least one or two good strikers. We didn't/don't. Gray can get a few, but I'd imagine was effected by his personal problems. After him who else is there? None of them can guarantee 15+ goals, but players at those clubs can.
Who should we get in? Not saying he should definitely stay, but I'm not sure there are all these fantastic managers out there dying for the chance to manage a club like Charlton.
We don't know that though do we. How do we know he didn't try to sign someone?
He did play 4-4-2 for a while but it was doing any better. We then got ZZ and Racon back and played our best team. We have a weakness up front, so it gets our more talented midfielders in over very average and unreliable strikers.
Earnshaw with 11 (and another 5 in the cups), Garner another striker with 6 and Tyson with 5. Not loads but much better than us with Todorov, Waghorn, Varney etc with 1 or 2 each.
It's a fair point though, I wanted someone new at the time. But still looking back over the season we've not had much quality at all up front, which is causing problems for the team as a whole.
Parky's record since taking the reigns:
L, D, L, L, D, L, D, L, L, L, W, L, L, W, D, D, L, L, D, L, D, W, D, D, D
That's 19 points out of possible 75.
That is also one win in 11 matches with Racon, ZZ, Shelvey and Ward available for selection, so much much for improved results with the better players together.
And somehow some people here think that is even remotely acceptable? Or good enough to have faith in his management to be brought back next season?
As Derek Chappell told us, "it's all about results."
There are the results, and they are not good enough. Unless you are prepared to accept a continued downward spiral.
The time to bin Parky was
a just before we got him in as Pards: number two
b, after the 8 game fiasco.
now he is in place, we have sunk to his level, we are losing the players who can get us back up - we might as well stick to him.
At least we will have someone to blame when we dont get promoted next season, which will shield the board from some of the stick.
Anyhoo, the change is gonna come in the form of a takeover a sweep out and a rebuilding.
The bloke serving the curry pasties in the north stand told me so
Unbeaten in 5!