Empty or not, I want to see him play every minute of our last games. I will feel very bitter if he is rested then leaves, thus depriving us of the pleasure of a few more games in the shirt.
a teenager with a big reputation (at charlton that is), but he's only played a handful of games, so hopefully, potential bidders will refrain from making an offer on the basis that they haven't seen enough of him yet :-)
OK, so he might prefer to continue his development at a higher level. However, he signed for us fully aware that we were most likely going down, so perhaps he's not too bothered what division he's in, as long as he's playing regular first team football over the next year or so. A season in the third division with regular football (like a number of our youngsters have experienced) is still good development and hopefully he will flourish to the benefit of both the club and himself.
Seems very odd to make him play two games in two days, and then 'rest' him for the rest of the season. However Phil Parkinson is capable of saying and doing all sorts of things. On the Mailing List today Trevor Puddifoot posted this, under the title "the laziest hardest working player in the squad":
Parkinson about Shelvey
News Shopper Online 13th April
"His feet are firmly on the ground and if he keeps his feet on the ground, and adds more work rate to the undoubted talent he?s got, he?ll be a top player."
News Shopper Online 14th April
"Every time Jonjo plays, he covers nearly 13km and runs more than any other player on the pitch."
If PP carries on with his quality quotes he's going to get his very own column in Private Eye like the old 'Colemanballs' !
The context to the Jonjo debate is depressing :
a) we're so broke we are sacking 30 odd people next month
b) apparently we were told today that Ward's wages equal the budget allocated to the entire defence for next season.
I'm afraid in those circs, if the board get a £2m offer for Jonjo, they will have to sell him. And you could even argue that it would be irresponsible of them not to do so.
Sorry, Nadou. I agree with what you say and I know how you feel about him, having watched him since he was 14. We've discussed it outside this public forum as well as in it. I don't want it to happen, either, because he could be our talisman - and you can't put a price on those.
But in our current financial crisis, will the board feel they can afford to hold on to a 2 million pound player in div three? Surely not.
How many other players worth that much are currently languishing in the third tier?
And in any case, going back to Parky's comments quoted by Prague Addick, if he only runs 13k per game and can't up his work rate , do we really want him? (JOKE!!!)
Even on money alone one case for keeping Shelvey is that his market price now will almost certainly double in a year's time. Richard Murray will know this because that is what happened with Parker. I haven't seen it recalled here recently that Parker was the subject of a 5m bid from Chelsea, pre-Abramovic, we resisted, and eventually he went for 11m.
Now a complication is the current refusal of banks to do what they are supposed to do. (lend) But I'd want to have a better idea of the P&L numbers before I capitulate. And while we have let 30 people go, we still have a CEO, AND an MD, AND a CFO. So there are still costs to be cut in other areas.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]"His feet are firmly on the ground and if he keeps his feet on the ground, and adds more work rate to the undoubted talent he?s got, he?ll be a top player."
Sometimes I find he probably runs around when he doesn't need to and wastes energy. Does look like it's just enthusiasm though, he's trying his best and wants to show he is, always wants to make things happen.
Agree about other cost-cutting areas, Richard. A few chiefs really should go along with the indians.
But back to Shelvey. The difference with Parker was that his price doubled because he was cutting it week in and week out at Prem level (and Chelsea were still in the first flush of daft Abramovich money-is-no-object bravado).
A season in division three out-classing the cloggers is not necessarily going to replicate the Parker effect.
The board are also clearly operating on a very short-term basis these days , and even if Shelvey's price is going to double in a year, I fear they would opt for realising their asset now if a decent offer comes in rather than risking some oik from Hartlepool or somewhere clattering him with a hospital tackle, after which he wouldn't be worth very much at all.
I really hope I'm wrong because in principle I don't disagree with you and Nadou and others on this one at all. But frankly my view is that our best hope is that he hasn't actually done enough yet for a big club to come in with a 2m plus bid and so we get to keep him that way. For a short while, at least.
Surely the club could simply divide Shelvey up anatomically & allow the fans to purchase the various body parts. I would happily pay, say, fifty quid for his right eye-lid.
Depending on how he is divided up we could raise a load of cash & whats more any potential buyers would have to negotiate with each body-part owner. It could end up with Aston Villa owning his right leg, Chelsea his nose, Arsenal his arm (from the elbow down) & Spurs will undoubtedly pay top dollar for his hair (if we can get him to pose on You Tube with a wig).
I also think alot will depend on how unsettled JonJo becomes with agents circling like buzzards. I fear this will lead to a Scott Parkker scenario, where he is convinced that his footballing interests lie elsewhere.
I guess this will be yet another test for Parky's (meagre) man management skills.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]depends on what we get for othe players. Say 500K for Gray 200k Weaver maybe 300K for Fourtune/Hudson.
Weaver and Fortune both out of contract. Also said in the shareholders meeting thread we're hoping to offer him a contract. I think we'll be looking to hold onto Hudson unless it's a good offer, £750k+.
So after that, apart from Gray, who is there to sell that we don't want to keep, but would attract Championship clubs? Not many, most of them are out of contract.
Theo Walcott 21 games 4 Goals
Aarron Ramsey 16 games 1 goal which was against Chasetown
Jonjo Shelvey 15 games 2 goals
So why can't we expect 5-7 million for Shelvey, especially when Fabian Delph of Leeds is being touted to the big four for that price. Shelvey footballing Brain at this age is far more developed than those three. His value will continue to rise. At this tender age you can see he controls the tempo of each game he plays and can both defend and create for his team.
Personally I hope to see Shelvey in a Charlton shirt for as long as he feels it is beneficial to him and the Club, at the moment he is the main reason I turn up come Saturday morning.
Shelvey the SuperBoy! - The OS states that the club trainer was astonished to find out that JonJo ran 13.6 kms in the Brum home game. Considering the average pitch length as 100m, the distance covered by the lad in 90 mins translates to 136 lengths of the football pitch - unbelievable and you cannot see Ramsay or Walcott doing the same without being knackered well before the end......
Can't see why everyone is speculating what the board can afford to turn down for him. Unless his agent is a complete mentalist he would have had to put a release clause in his contracts, knowing when he signed it we were bound for Div 3. I don't imagine there'll be much negotiation when the time comes. If he gets an offer that makes sense to him to take - financially or from a football perspective - he'll go if the trigger is hit, surely. Very different point to Parker where our board and manager judged that the payment offered was too good to turn down given his motivation etc.
[cite]Posted By: Curbey[/cite]Theo Walcott 21 games 4 Goals
Aarron Ramsey 16 games 1 goal which was against Chasetown
Jonjo Shelvey 15 games 2 goals
So why can't we expect 5-7 million for Shelvey, especially when Fabian Delph of Leeds is being touted to the big four for that price. Shelvey footballing Brain at this age is far more developed than those three. His value will continue to rise. At this tender age you can see he controls the tempo of each game he plays and can both defend and create for his team.
1. We are very publically skint
2. Shelvey has nothing like the hype surrounding him that the other two (full internationals) do.
3. Release fee
4. We're just not very good in the transfer market.
5. We're a division three club.
Morts we are just speculating on a release fee lets hope his manager is a agent (i though it was his Dad) besides that the final decision is down to Shelvey.There are also a rumours in papers today of Delph of Leeds to Aston Villa for 6 million so why not.
[cite]Posted By: Curbey[/cite]Morts we are just speculating on a release fee lets hope his manager is a agent (i though it was his Dad) besides that the final decision is down to Shelvey.There are also a rumours in papers today of Delph of Leeds to Aston Villa for 6 million so why not.
That's true, we're all speculating, but rationally he did not have to sign a contract on his birthday in Feb and could have walked out for very little then. He signed it pretty much knowing we were bound for league one. If I were him I wouldn't rely on a gentleman's agreement that if Man U came in for me offering to pay me 50k a week (just to be clear I'm making all this up) that the club wouldn't scupper the deal demanding too much money, so I'd not go near that contract unless I knew I could get out if the right offer came in for me. Logically the lower a release fee, the more he'd get and - it gets thrown about a lot, but it is a short career -he could do his ligaments playing against Carlisle next year and earn a fraction of his true potential so I can understand why they sometimes chase the money .
I can't comment on Delph, I don't know enough about it. But I guess it would depend where he was on the hype curve when he signed his deal whether he'd have been able to get similar safeguards in his contract AND that 6M is just more speculation. If he goes for 6M at the end of the next season my speculation will be wrong AND I'll be happy!!
I understand what you are saying Morts and it's all true, but I've got a good feeling about Shelvey him and the people around him.I respect him for signing the contract in Feb because of the current predicament the club finds itself in. Delph is hyped up a fair bit he has 1 cap for England U21's which is suppose is more then Shelvey at this point. Playing for England U17 in European Championships this summer won't be doing any harm for his price tag.
I think Jonjo will stay because the club think that he will be able to play more games next season and fill the gap left by the departure for "reasonable" money of either Racon and Bailey or both. They know that whatever the value of Jonjo this year it will be worth more next and that is a financial life boat if things go tits upwards next season too.
West Ham United will be taken over by a consortium of international banks in the coming weeks. Icelandic government-appointed officials running the stricken investment bank Straumur are set to to take control from Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson at Upton Park. (The Guardian)
Comments
OK, so he might prefer to continue his development at a higher level. However, he signed for us fully aware that we were most likely going down, so perhaps he's not too bothered what division he's in, as long as he's playing regular first team football over the next year or so. A season in the third division with regular football (like a number of our youngsters have experienced) is still good development and hopefully he will flourish to the benefit of both the club and himself.
We shall see!!!!!!!!!
Parkinson about Shelvey
News Shopper Online 13th April
"His feet are firmly on the ground and if he keeps his feet on the ground, and adds more work rate to the undoubted talent he?s got, he?ll be a top player."
News Shopper Online 14th April
"Every time Jonjo plays, he covers nearly 13km and runs more than any other player on the pitch."
The context to the Jonjo debate is depressing :
a) we're so broke we are sacking 30 odd people next month
b) apparently we were told today that Ward's wages equal the budget allocated to the entire defence for next season.
I'm afraid in those circs, if the board get a £2m offer for Jonjo, they will have to sell him. And you could even argue that it would be irresponsible of them not to do so.
Sorry, Nadou. I agree with what you say and I know how you feel about him, having watched him since he was 14. We've discussed it outside this public forum as well as in it. I don't want it to happen, either, because he could be our talisman - and you can't put a price on those.
But in our current financial crisis, will the board feel they can afford to hold on to a 2 million pound player in div three? Surely not.
How many other players worth that much are currently languishing in the third tier?
And in any case, going back to Parky's comments quoted by Prague Addick, if he only runs 13k per game and can't up his work rate , do we really want him? (JOKE!!!)
Even on money alone one case for keeping Shelvey is that his market price now will almost certainly double in a year's time. Richard Murray will know this because that is what happened with Parker. I haven't seen it recalled here recently that Parker was the subject of a 5m bid from Chelsea, pre-Abramovic, we resisted, and eventually he went for 11m.
Now a complication is the current refusal of banks to do what they are supposed to do. (lend) But I'd want to have a better idea of the P&L numbers before I capitulate. And while we have let 30 people go, we still have a CEO, AND an MD, AND a CFO. So there are still costs to be cut in other areas.
Sometimes I find he probably runs around when he doesn't need to and wastes energy. Does look like it's just enthusiasm though, he's trying his best and wants to show he is, always wants to make things happen.
But back to Shelvey. The difference with Parker was that his price doubled because he was cutting it week in and week out at Prem level (and Chelsea were still in the first flush of daft Abramovich money-is-no-object bravado).
A season in division three out-classing the cloggers is not necessarily going to replicate the Parker effect.
The board are also clearly operating on a very short-term basis these days , and even if Shelvey's price is going to double in a year, I fear they would opt for realising their asset now if a decent offer comes in rather than risking some oik from Hartlepool or somewhere clattering him with a hospital tackle, after which he wouldn't be worth very much at all.
I really hope I'm wrong because in principle I don't disagree with you and Nadou and others on this one at all. But frankly my view is that our best hope is that he hasn't actually done enough yet for a big club to come in with a 2m plus bid and so we get to keep him that way. For a short while, at least.
Depending on how he is divided up we could raise a load of cash & whats more any potential buyers would have to negotiate with each body-part owner. It could end up with Aston Villa owning his right leg, Chelsea his nose, Arsenal his arm (from the elbow down) & Spurs will undoubtedly pay top dollar for his hair (if we can get him to pose on You Tube with a wig).
Just an idea.
Hold onto Bailey till Jan
JonJo IMO if someone offered 2 mill plus bolt ons then we will sell.
needs must when the devil is at the gate.
I guess this will be yet another test for Parky's (meagre) man management skills.
Weaver and Fortune both out of contract. Also said in the shareholders meeting thread we're hoping to offer him a contract. I think we'll be looking to hold onto Hudson unless it's a good offer, £750k+.
So after that, apart from Gray, who is there to sell that we don't want to keep, but would attract Championship clubs? Not many, most of them are out of contract.
Aarron Ramsey 16 games 1 goal which was against Chasetown
Jonjo Shelvey 15 games 2 goals
So why can't we expect 5-7 million for Shelvey, especially when Fabian Delph of Leeds is being touted to the big four for that price. Shelvey footballing Brain at this age is far more developed than those three. His value will continue to rise. At this tender age you can see he controls the tempo of each game he plays and can both defend and create for his team.
Personally I hope to see Shelvey in a Charlton shirt for as long as he feels it is beneficial to him and the Club, at the moment he is the main reason I turn up come Saturday morning.
2. Shelvey has nothing like the hype surrounding him that the other two (full internationals) do.
3. Release fee
4. We're just not very good in the transfer market.
5. We're a division three club.
You hope he stays. That's the operative phrase...
I can't comment on Delph, I don't know enough about it. But I guess it would depend where he was on the hype curve when he signed his deal whether he'd have been able to get similar safeguards in his contract AND that 6M is just more speculation. If he goes for 6M at the end of the next season my speculation will be wrong AND I'll be happy!!
Delph goal vs Brighton
If Shelvey was sold for £3M (plus a sell on fee of say 25%) we could buy a whole team for that at Div 1 level ?
That wouldnt happen though. We will be spending approximately £0 in the summer regardless of who stays and goes imo.
I would rather clone 11 Shelveys and wait 17 years.
?