As to Jonjo's valuation...the club is in a strong position. I'm sure there is a buy-out clause in there which if triggered allows him to move if he wants, but I'd presume that would be at a reasonable level - ie above the £2m or so that some here think he'd go for. Bear in mind that he's one month into a two and a half year deal and even if there is no buy-out clause then the club have a fair amount of bargaining power, ie they can say no several times until good money is on the table. As for Jonjo, I think he's got a wise head on his shoulders and has good advisers, while he won't want to be playing in League One, neither will he want to be stuck playing reserve team football at a Premiership club. That is why he signed a pro contract with us in February.
This is indeed a depressing thread and mainly because so many people seem ready to accept that he has to leave this summer, simply because of our "financial situation". But that is nowhere near a good enough reason. There is a P&L account to balance next year for sure. Well there are a lot of people to get rid of, and guess what, they are paid in the same currency as JonJo. Weaver, Gray, Ambrose for starters. That will cut quite a lot off. More regrettably ZZ and Mootoo. Does anyone think we should be paying the salaries of Burton or Todorov next season? Will Matt Holland feature? Do not forget also that one of the many almost absurd aspects of our demise is that we have run very large squads in this division. Somebody mentioned that Burnley make do with 18, and look at them.
And that's just the cost cutting side. Cost cutting in business can be done by any idiot. And often is. The important and more difficult thing is to CREATE VALUE. JonJo Shelvey is not just a very good footballer.In one respect Parkinson is right to compare Shelvey to Gerrard. He will be our talisman, and my God, don't we just need one now. He is a product of our youth policy. He signed when he could easily have walked. We can even chat to his uncle on this site. That makes his VALUE to Charlton much greater than "what somebody is prepared to pay for him". Nadou is right. We need something to give us a reason to turn up next season.We need hope. That is what a football club sells. Hope. (yes I know, it kills you in the end...)
The directors are human. if they read loads of people debating how much they will get for him, rather than demanding that he stays, they will sell him. It does not have to be like this. There are other ways to balance the books. They may be a bit harder than taking a wad for JonJo, well you know what, we deserve a bit of hard work to be done. We deserve the right to watch JonJo Shelvey for at least one season, during which for sure his current value will double . Really,people don't we have any fight left in us? Let's get the message across loud and clear. JonJoShelvey is NOT FOR SALE!
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]The directors are human. if they read loads of people debating how much they will get for him, rather than demanding that he stays, they will sell him. It does not have to be like this.
come on really.....do you really think they'll take any notice of a few internet goons like us mulling over whether to keep or sell jonjo for whatever price , i very much doubt it cos if they took any notice i really don't think parky would be manager of us but hey-ho each to their own...
and why would jonjo playing in league one be of any benefit to him when he is clearly good enough to be a regular in the championship at least!
Providing he's a first choice and starting games, at his age he can afford a season to gain strength and experience;
he's got emotional security and respect here, he's looked after and he feels valued.
All that can be important to a 17 year old.
He knows time is on his side. and we'll all know when he's outgrown Charlton and time to step up.
Then he'll move straight to a Prem club, who'll break an 18/19 year old gently into their 1st team set up, before he establishes himself as a fixture.
And putting things in perspective: talent that he is, he's not yet got even an Under-18 cap, let alone Under-21.
Everybody in top football will be aware of him, but don't forget Rooney, Owen and Walcott had all already been blooded in the full England team at around Jonjo's age.
He seems to have some good advisers/managers behind him, and a sound head on his shoulders. When he signed the pro contract in February we were realistically doomed and if he was worried about playing in League One and not progressing his career he could have taken one of the offers that were allegedly on the table or delayed a contract decision until the summer. However I presume in all the negotiations the club have assured him that he'll get a regular starting position next year and consequently he has decided that playing regularly for the club that have nurtured him will be the best for the long term. On the downside his contract isn't that long, and I suspect that we'll be revising this topic in a year's time and then with time running out the club might be forced to cash in on a player who might not sign another contract.
The ideal scenario is for Shelvey to stay a year and sign an enhanced and extended contract on his 18th birthday, for say 3 years.
He'll then be sold for a larger fee to a Prem club during the next close season or the following January.
Result:
1) we keep the quality player that may well enable us to win promotion in the first year.
2) Jonjo gets the security he needs to develop in safe and familiar surroundings.
3) When the time comes for him to step up, his value is substantially increased
4) Jonjo gets the club and contract that will mould him into an established Prem player.
I think you'll find there s a trigger clause in his contract of £2m plus and we have to listen to offers - can;'t see that not being triggered - then depends on the lad and his family as to whether he stays or not.
Some good posts. I am hoping that the offloading of some of the high earners coupled with the raising of working capital takes the pressure off needing to sell at the bottom end. Of course we dont know.
But one scenario does concern me and that is I am pretty sure in League 1 he is going to get clunked. He will be the target of some rough treatment and I hope he is protected and perhaps more importantly doesnt pick up any serious injury. If I was an adviser I would be mindful that one loony tackle could ruin his career.
I appreciate this can happen at any level but I hope the referees protect him appropriately.
But one scenario does concern me and that is I am pretty sure in League 1 he is going to get clunked.
..........
That will happen at whatever level he plays and it'll be part of his learning curve. Another reason why he should stay at Charlton is that the club will give him time to recover from injuries. As with Bowyer, Parker etc I trust the club to bring him on properly, and that is another reason why he should stay.
Lets just see what happens eh? He's a great lad, with fantastic talent and he's commited his future to Charlton, which in my book means he wants to stay and play for us. Why don't we just accept that and let him get on with his career?
Talk of a trigger clause is premature because whether there is one or not is irrelevant if he wants to stay and play.
Next season may be the opportunity for him that elluded players like Bostock, namely the chance to play a starring role in a promotion winning team!! That will enhance his reputation, develop his experience and that can only be good for him in the long run.
Next season may be the opportunity for him that elluded players like Bostock, namely the chance to play a starring role in a promotion winning team!! That will enhance his reputation, develop his experience and that can only be good for him in the long run.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]Lets just see what happens eh?
My point is, there are two sides to the story. First, there is the player and his family. We can play our role by making it clear just how much pride and pleasure we take from seeing him develop - and from being able to speak here directly with a member of his family.
Then there is the Board. We have to make it clear that JonJo is more than just a good footballer, he represents Hope, and as such, is a major asset to this club not just on the field but in the stands and through the turnstiles, in the shop, and in the media. You may think the Board knows that perfectly well. However if we make it clear that this is how we feel, this will help the Value Builders on the Board defeat the Cost Cutters. because for sure there will be that division on the Board. There is on most Boards of any company.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]
My point is, there are two sides to the story.
I agree 100% with everything you say on this PA.
My original point though was in relation to the 'potential' other side of this story, namely that we have no idea at what level, if any, there is any form of gentleman's agreement, formal writing in what JJS agreed in February in relation to exit.
If there is, then that largely makes what you say, and what i agree with, irrelevent.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]But one scenario does concern me and that is I am pretty sure in League 1 he is going to get clunked.
I did also worry about this but BFR is right, it happens at any level. Certainly this level. Remember Bowyer at Huddersfield, Horton screaming "Break his legs"? Or the Leeds game at The Valley when Parker was targetted by none other than Danny Mills?
The solution of course is to employ Derek Hales to stand by the players tunnel to monitor the situation...
Prague Addick - you and I are totally at one over this. IfJonjo wants to go, there's nothing we can do - apart, from writing the kind of stuff I do here from time to time, hoping that Uncle will notice it and report back to him how important and special we feel Jonjo is to us. But if it is the directors' choice to let him go in order to recoup on him, it would be the biggest sign of their lack of commitment and love of the club. As you so rightly say, he is our hope - along with the other promising youngsters I've watched in the Academy over the last few years like Toks, Tamer Tuna, Jack Clark, Chris Solly etc. Our commitment to them and theirs to us is what would give us a future that would feel like CAFC.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]
My point is, there are two sides to the story.
I agree 100% with everything you say on this PA.
My original point though was in relation to the 'potential' other side of this story, namely that we have no idea at what level, if any, there is any form of gentleman's agreement, formal writing in what JJS agreed in February in relation to exit.
If there is, then that largely makes what you say, and what i agree with, irrelevent.
That there sums this all up, perfectly. And for that reason ahm oot! This thread is an odd mixture of blind hope and insane despair all based on as much verifiable fact as those hilarious medium shows on Living TV "). I'm getting an insight now as to why people watch that kind of stuff.
More seriously though, it was a good point that Shelvey is worth more to us than what clubs are willing to pay. Parker was never a £20m player, but to us he was worth that. Once he wanted to leave though, there was no point keeping someone that didn't want to play for us.
Comments
I told D i aint going anywhere and his little boy thinks i am Nicky Bailey and that aint rubbish ;-)
I think Luke Young only had a year left on his Charlton contract though.
And Boro weren't desperate to sell, Villa were desperate for a right back.
We had just got relegated and needed to get players off the wage bill.
And that's just the cost cutting side. Cost cutting in business can be done by any idiot. And often is. The important and more difficult thing is to CREATE VALUE. JonJo Shelvey is not just a very good footballer.In one respect Parkinson is right to compare Shelvey to Gerrard. He will be our talisman, and my God, don't we just need one now. He is a product of our youth policy. He signed when he could easily have walked. We can even chat to his uncle on this site. That makes his VALUE to Charlton much greater than "what somebody is prepared to pay for him". Nadou is right. We need something to give us a reason to turn up next season.We need hope. That is what a football club sells. Hope. (yes I know, it kills you in the end...)
The directors are human. if they read loads of people debating how much they will get for him, rather than demanding that he stays, they will sell him. It does not have to be like this. There are other ways to balance the books. They may be a bit harder than taking a wad for JonJo, well you know what, we deserve a bit of hard work to be done. We deserve the right to watch JonJo Shelvey for at least one season, during which for sure his current value will double . Really,people don't we have any fight left in us? Let's get the message across loud and clear. JonJoShelvey is NOT FOR SALE!
Good post!
come on really.....do you really think they'll take any notice of a few internet goons like us mulling over whether to keep or sell jonjo for whatever price , i very much doubt it cos if they took any notice i really don't think parky would be manager of us but hey-ho each to their own...
and why would jonjo playing in league one be of any benefit to him when he is clearly good enough to be a regular in the championship at least!
he's got emotional security and respect here, he's looked after and he feels valued.
All that can be important to a 17 year old.
He knows time is on his side. and we'll all know when he's outgrown Charlton and time to step up.
Then he'll move straight to a Prem club, who'll break an 18/19 year old gently into their 1st team set up, before he establishes himself as a fixture.
And putting things in perspective: talent that he is, he's not yet got even an Under-18 cap, let alone Under-21.
Everybody in top football will be aware of him, but don't forget Rooney, Owen and Walcott had all already been blooded in the full England team at around Jonjo's age.
So nobody's in a rush.
He'll then be sold for a larger fee to a Prem club during the next close season or the following January.
Result:
1) we keep the quality player that may well enable us to win promotion in the first year.
2) Jonjo gets the security he needs to develop in safe and familiar surroundings.
3) When the time comes for him to step up, his value is substantially increased
4) Jonjo gets the club and contract that will mould him into an established Prem player.
But one scenario does concern me and that is I am pretty sure in League 1 he is going to get clunked. He will be the target of some rough treatment and I hope he is protected and perhaps more importantly doesnt pick up any serious injury. If I was an adviser I would be mindful that one loony tackle could ruin his career.
I appreciate this can happen at any level but I hope the referees protect him appropriately.
..........
That will happen at whatever level he plays and it'll be part of his learning curve. Another reason why he should stay at Charlton is that the club will give him time to recover from injuries. As with Bowyer, Parker etc I trust the club to bring him on properly, and that is another reason why he should stay.
Talk of a trigger clause is premature because whether there is one or not is irrelevant if he wants to stay and play.
Next season may be the opportunity for him that elluded players like Bostock, namely the chance to play a starring role in a promotion winning team!! That will enhance his reputation, develop his experience and that can only be good for him in the long run.
so he'll be joining QPR then!!
My point is, there are two sides to the story. First, there is the player and his family. We can play our role by making it clear just how much pride and pleasure we take from seeing him develop - and from being able to speak here directly with a member of his family.
Then there is the Board. We have to make it clear that JonJo is more than just a good footballer, he represents Hope, and as such, is a major asset to this club not just on the field but in the stands and through the turnstiles, in the shop, and in the media. You may think the Board knows that perfectly well. However if we make it clear that this is how we feel, this will help the Value Builders on the Board defeat the Cost Cutters. because for sure there will be that division on the Board. There is on most Boards of any company.
I agree 100% with everything you say on this PA.
My original point though was in relation to the 'potential' other side of this story, namely that we have no idea at what level, if any, there is any form of gentleman's agreement, formal writing in what JJS agreed in February in relation to exit.
If there is, then that largely makes what you say, and what i agree with, irrelevent.
I did also worry about this but BFR is right, it happens at any level. Certainly this level. Remember Bowyer at Huddersfield, Horton screaming "Break his legs"? Or the Leeds game at The Valley when Parker was targetted by none other than Danny Mills?
The solution of course is to employ Derek Hales to stand by the players tunnel to monitor the situation...
Can't get more certain than Dave.
2004 - Parker
2006 - Murphy
2008 - Reid
2010 - Shelvey?
;-)
More seriously though, it was a good point that Shelvey is worth more to us than what clubs are willing to pay. Parker was never a £20m player, but to us he was worth that. Once he wanted to leave though, there was no point keeping someone that didn't want to play for us.
Jonjo Shelvey could be rested for Charlton's remaining games this season.
Boss Phil Parkinson said "He's a kid and he's running on empty"....
Call me a cynic, but could this be a 'gentlemans agreement' with potential new bidders ???
Hope I'm wrong !!!!
well drop/rest him and he can go and rest at plenty of better clubs than charlton