The Pards out point i can understand but not agree with yes we were shite yes we might not go up but changing managers does not work lets stick with him and get out of this mess together.
As fans we were just as poor yesterday and did not get going until the little shit scored (as we all knew he would)
The substituation of Mcarthy did make some sense although i did not agree with it as boogie was complete cack.
come on it is mainly a new team and we are still there or there about the Billy Davis point is laughable the man is a dreamer more so than Pards.
Jol with the money spent did a good job but would he look at us when some of the big teams that get knocked out of europe soon willl be looking for a new manager we are back to being little old rubbish Charlton lets just get on with it.
we will end up sounding like spuds fans " we want our charlton back" well guess what we have got it back we are back to being shite lets put as much passion into the noise we create at the valley in a positive way as much as we did to boo
[cite]Posted By: InspectorSands[/cite]Everyone's entitled to their view, but suggesting that Pards should be replaced is lunacy.
I can cope with being called a loony, Inspector, as that about sums up the mood I was in yesterday! Anyone who follows this board will know that I've never been Pards' biggest fan - I find him arrogant, smug and self-centred, all of which are values I don't really associate with Charlton. However, I want nothing more than to see the team be successful, so have bitten my tongue on several occasions when I could have been stronger in my criticism of him, believing that he probably was the best man for the job given lack of other options. Four disappointing results in a row against mid/ lower table teams, culminating in playing 451 at home against the bottom team, was finally too much for me to take.
I expected the thread to become a fairly strong debate on the pros and cons of our manager. If anything I was a bit surprised that so many jumped in to agree with me so quickly, but it was all reasoned comment until Rothko decided to contribute. His initial comment (since edited) simply said F Off. Well, I'm glad he's now taken his own advice.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite][Anyone who follows this board will know that I've never been WSS' biggest fan - I find him arrogant, smug and self-centred
I don't think everyone is saying Pardew should be replaced. It's just that, possibly like me, some of his decsions baffle people. As I said in an earlier post he seems to have a core set of players that will play no matter what. Even some of his own signings, Racon, Mcleod, Varney can't get a regular game. I know he sees the players everyday in training but when you play a CB at RB and you have a RB on the bench or you play 4-5-1 at home to the bottom club but as soon as it goes wrong revert to 4-4-2. Playing a team low on confidence, thats Colchester not us, why didn't we give it an all out attacking start. In hindsight it couldn't have been any worse. I was one of those who thought automatic promotion was a good bet this season but I am concerned now that unless there is an improvement we may struggle to make the play-offs. It could all turn round against Blackpool and we go on a winning run but at this moment in time I don't feel confident we can do that. Just so people know I have seen a lot worse in my time supporting Charlton (30+ years) but then when we were in tier 3 and really really crap you didn't expect any more. The expectations have risen for everyone so maybe we are victims of our own success.
I think we all need to calm down a little bit to be honest.
Yes Rothko's post was a little bit aggressive, but it was heat of the moment and i know exactly how he feels. Nothing worse than when things are going against you, your owning turning and making things ten times worse. Rothko, like others, cares passionately about Charlton, and he tries to do it in a supportive way rather than jumping on the players, manager and board as soon as anything goes wrong. The Valley would be a happier place if everyone had that approach.
We're having a dire run at present, lets agree on that, but we are also very little missing to making this a successful team at this level. If that arrives in the next week, and we go on and make automatic promotion, these posts are going to look ridiculous. I think we just need a bit of patience and try desperately to keep a bit of a lid on our frustrations for the short-term.
I'm not sure what upsets me the most at the moment to be honest. Team playing crap, or supporters so divided ?
I thought this board was a forum for debate, AFKA? I'm more than a bit bewildered that you are defending Rothko I didn't abuse anyone on the forum with what I posted, and even apologised to Rothko if he'd been over-heated because of the tragic road accident - not that I've had any apology in return from him. If I can't express an opinion, albeit a controversial one, then I'm out of here too. 2008 might be a more productive year from a business point of view in that case!
I don't know why your everyone is so shocked that this thread got someone to swear and got a exterme reaction, when I get the feeling it was being looked for. And I'm quite happy to be called an idiot, I've been called a lot worse, shrugged and got on with things.
The opening post is utterly stupid, tainted by a view on a person from a short meeting at a large dinner. What should a Charlton manager be then, meak and mild mannered?
Yes we've had 4 iffy results (two of them where we played with 10 men) but the baby out with the bathwater stuff in the last 24 hours has been is boardering on truely idiotic.
We're 5th at the half way point in the season, we've played some good stuff, we've played some rubbish stuff, the home form has been rubbish, but then so has Watford's.
With a couple coming in during the window there is everything to play for. But reading this kind of Newcastle lite stuff really is annoying and frustrating. I might be more of a glass half full then most on here, but that's me.
Well, Weegie, you said Pards has character traits that you don't feel fit in with our club, which is fair enough - but firing a manager after only a year isn't exactly the Charlton way either.
In fact, it's the kind of thing that most of the dead-weight, run-by-idiots clubs in the Championship would do. We're better than that - even if we are finding it tough.
Not what i'm saying at all Weegs, i've mis-wrote if it reads that way, and we've all got to be careful not to make mountains out of a molehill.
Everyone is fully entitled to post what they like within the very loose guidelines laid out. Those are to err away from politics and religion, which tend to cause only negative reaction, and to respect the views of fellow posters, that's all.
Telling someone to f off doesn't fall into that, and it was pulled up. I try and monitor as much as i can, and if i can nip things in the bud and amend stuff before it escalates and turns into arguments then i do. But this had already run.
However, with my own hat on, not the admin hat :-), if you are bold enough to post a contraversial view there is part of me that thinks maybe you should be strong expect to a contraversial response at some point. I deliberately didn't log on after the game yesterday because i was desperately disappointed and angry by the performance and result, and i knew that if i read a load of criticism it would upset me further.
There are ways of handing out insults etc and if i was in the pub with mates and disagreed with something they said i would tell them in conversation to p off or f off. It wouldn't be done in a threatening or insulting way though, and things appear very different when wrote down than when said. That's how i read it, it was heat of the moment reaction that probably wasn't meant as it read, and shouldn't cause a big fall out. That's all.
Come on, lets all move on otherwise we're all going to be a very bitter bunch. And following a football team shouldn't really be like that.
God, if we lose at home to Palace, i don't think i'll log on for a month :-)
I feel as disappointed as the rest of you and can't understand playing 4-5-1 at home when we have strikers available.If Pardew did go who would replace him, none of his assistants have experience and I doubt if a good experienced manager would take the job with our current team and the lack of money for replacements. Therefore we are best baking Pardew and hoping he can get it right. Yes we have been on a poor run but we are still 5th and IF we can get our act together then promotion is still very possible, but we can only do this if we, the fans, back the current management team - there's no alternative!
Ok Reams, you want to sack the manager now so lets talk about it then.
1. If we sacked Pardew today, pay him off, pay Parkinson and the rest of his staff off, who would you bring in as manager who would a) want to work at this level, b) want the job knowing that giving managers very little time is becoming a habit here, c) be out of work at the moment because paying a fee for a manager would take most of our small transfer budget.
2. If we don't sack pardew, and in the next ten days, bring in a decent striker and defender, pick up six points off Blackpool and Watford and sitting just 4 points off the top of the league, don't you think your call to sack him in hindsight, would of looked premature at best, foolish at worst ?
And if you're answer to 1. is Billy Davies, then forget it. He burnt bridges by p1ssing the club around before, and has done his level best to see Derby relegated with the lowest ever points score.
I like both Weegie and Rothko and value their opinions on here. I think that maybe I treat people a bit differently depending who they are - I could tell my best mate to f off if he came out with something I didn't agree with, but I wouldn't do the same to a lot of other people as I don't have that sort of relationship with them.
We'll never agree on everything, but on the whole let's stick together people!
For the record, despite a recent loss-of-plot combined with a lack of discipline, I am sticking by Pardew. I have no idea how influential or effective his coaching team are, so will keep my opinion focused on him as is the man in charge. He does need to do some decent moves in the transfer market though - will take some effort with the small amount of money I suspect we have available.
All I feel I can do is cheer them on when I go to matches and try to ride out the rough patches with optimism and patience.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]I feel as disappointed as the rest of you and can't understand playing 4-5-1 at home when we have strikers available.
I really can't understand why people are wetting themselves because we played 1 up front. If the system is played properly then we are in fact playing a 4-3-3, is that not more atacking than just 2 up front.
The problem is not the formation, the problem is that we have been playing poorly. Piss poor play is piss poor play and I have yet to see a formation that will make a poorly performing side play better.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]God, if we lose at home to Palace, i don't think i'll log on for a month :-)
dude, i am actually shitting a brick thinking about this fixture, they are going to give us a right proper old hammering i reckon, and i will tell you now that'll feck up my whole year! Yesterday, after the Col U game, i had the real hump, when charlton lose to rubbish, i get well angry! If we get beat by Warnocks men, it will be absolutely gutting!
[cite]Posted By: Sco[/cite]All I feel I can do is cheer them on when I go to matches and try to ride out the rough patches with optimism and patience.
Well, that's what most of us used to do most of the time when we watched Charlton play.
Now it's just periods of stony silence punctuated by abuse at individual players at the first misplaced pass.
How many go to cheer the team on, especially when we go a goal down?
Pard's is a self centre,arrogant man IMHO,but hey if he gets the job done so be it.I'm disappointed with his team selection and buys at present,but I do think there is not a quick fix to the problems.I think this has been coming a long time with no plan B when curbs left.I believe as much as we don't want to admit we are suffering like many teams who have been relegated after spending a long period in the Premiership.We don't really know how to tackle this league either get stuck in and fight it out or play our way out,we seem to be stuck in the middle and are suffering for it.Personally i have been more chilled recently (and people who know me will find thast hard to believe)I find our defending absolutely laughable and spend a lot of time laughin at Magic during the game.We are know playing average football with very average players.I would personally like to build a team similar to the way Coppell did at Reading.He didn't panic looked at players from all divisions and built a team that wasn't ful of prima-donas and had a real hunger.If Pards is prepared to do this (reo-coker what a crackin buy when he bought him) I'm prepared to back him,but I feel we panicked a bit with some of the signings and need to be more thorough.
[cite]Posted By: Reamsofverse[/cite]It's not for me to decide who to bring in as manager maybe Pardew can start the new year with a new approach and the question how can it be that prove me and others wrong which incidently I will be only too happy to admit to but one has to ask why our ex players including the ones out on loan can immediately raise their game as soon as they are out of the door.
That seems a bit of a cop out to be honest. It's not just to you but any of the others that have suggested sacking Pardew. Unless there is someone better to replace him, what would we gain by sacking him?
That last comment is a bit of grabbing at straws to bolster your arguement. Which ex players are you talking about, I assume Lisbie? If that is the case then why was Lisbie never able to "raise his game" in the previous 12 years he was with us if it is all down to Pardew?
As for players on loan, how many of them have actually played for Pardew?
[cite]Posted By: Reamsofverse[/cite]interesting post AFKA clearly this is something to do with an issue over our respective sights as you have aimed you question at me and nobody else on here who is critical of Pardew.
Don't read to much into things. I knew you'd give a full response and i was interested in your view.
In my view, Pardew has made mistakes, but should be given time to put them right. Till the end of the season at least. Chopping and changing regimes rarely benefits a club in the long-term, and only increases the longevity of instability. The worst that can happen this season is we don't get promoted and remain in the Championship. Its not a consequence that requires a panic reaction.
I've never really been a believer of chopping a manager mid-season, but if you are to do so then it should be in early December, given a new guy a few weeks to identify new targets and set the wheels in motion. Changing now is pretty much too late already for that.
Comments
The Pards out point i can understand but not agree with yes we were shite yes we might not go up but changing managers does not work lets stick with him and get out of this mess together.
As fans we were just as poor yesterday and did not get going until the little shit scored (as we all knew he would)
The substituation of Mcarthy did make some sense although i did not agree with it as boogie was complete cack.
come on it is mainly a new team and we are still there or there about the Billy Davis point is laughable the man is a dreamer more so than Pards.
Jol with the money spent did a good job but would he look at us when some of the big teams that get knocked out of europe soon willl be looking for a new manager we are back to being little old rubbish Charlton lets just get on with it.
we will end up sounding like spuds fans " we want our charlton back" well guess what we have got it back we are back to being shite lets put as much passion into the noise we create at the valley in a positive way as much as we did to boo
The people that run this board do a cracking job yet when we lose we have idiots telling people to f off cos they dont agree with their viewpoint!!!
I'll be back when we win.
See you in Feb :)
i agree, but haven't told weegie to fuck off because she does think he should go.
I can cope with being called a loony, Inspector, as that about sums up the mood I was in yesterday! Anyone who follows this board will know that I've never been Pards' biggest fan - I find him arrogant, smug and self-centred, all of which are values I don't really associate with Charlton. However, I want nothing more than to see the team be successful, so have bitten my tongue on several occasions when I could have been stronger in my criticism of him, believing that he probably was the best man for the job given lack of other options. Four disappointing results in a row against mid/ lower table teams, culminating in playing 451 at home against the bottom team, was finally too much for me to take.
I expected the thread to become a fairly strong debate on the pros and cons of our manager. If anything I was a bit surprised that so many jumped in to agree with me so quickly, but it was all reasoned comment until Rothko decided to contribute. His initial comment (since edited) simply said F Off. Well, I'm glad he's now taken his own advice.
Love you Weegie!
I was one of those who thought automatic promotion was a good bet this season but I am concerned now that unless there is an improvement we may struggle to make the play-offs. It could all turn round against Blackpool and we go on a winning run but at this moment in time I don't feel confident we can do that.
Just so people know I have seen a lot worse in my time supporting Charlton (30+ years) but then when we were in tier 3 and really really crap you didn't expect any more.
The expectations have risen for everyone so maybe we are victims of our own success.
I feel a bit better for that!!!!!!
Yes Rothko's post was a little bit aggressive, but it was heat of the moment and i know exactly how he feels. Nothing worse than when things are going against you, your owning turning and making things ten times worse. Rothko, like others, cares passionately about Charlton, and he tries to do it in a supportive way rather than jumping on the players, manager and board as soon as anything goes wrong. The Valley would be a happier place if everyone had that approach.
We're having a dire run at present, lets agree on that, but we are also very little missing to making this a successful team at this level. If that arrives in the next week, and we go on and make automatic promotion, these posts are going to look ridiculous. I think we just need a bit of patience and try desperately to keep a bit of a lid on our frustrations for the short-term.
I'm not sure what upsets me the most at the moment to be honest. Team playing crap, or supporters so divided ?
The opening post is utterly stupid, tainted by a view on a person from a short meeting at a large dinner. What should a Charlton manager be then, meak and mild mannered?
Yes we've had 4 iffy results (two of them where we played with 10 men) but the baby out with the bathwater stuff in the last 24 hours has been is boardering on truely idiotic.
We're 5th at the half way point in the season, we've played some good stuff, we've played some rubbish stuff, the home form has been rubbish, but then so has Watford's.
With a couple coming in during the window there is everything to play for. But reading this kind of Newcastle lite stuff really is annoying and frustrating. I might be more of a glass half full then most on here, but that's me.
In fact, it's the kind of thing that most of the dead-weight, run-by-idiots clubs in the Championship would do. We're better than that - even if we are finding it tough.
so funny
Everyone is fully entitled to post what they like within the very loose guidelines laid out. Those are to err away from politics and religion, which tend to cause only negative reaction, and to respect the views of fellow posters, that's all.
Telling someone to f off doesn't fall into that, and it was pulled up. I try and monitor as much as i can, and if i can nip things in the bud and amend stuff before it escalates and turns into arguments then i do. But this had already run.
However, with my own hat on, not the admin hat :-), if you are bold enough to post a contraversial view there is part of me that thinks maybe you should be strong expect to a contraversial response at some point. I deliberately didn't log on after the game yesterday because i was desperately disappointed and angry by the performance and result, and i knew that if i read a load of criticism it would upset me further.
There are ways of handing out insults etc and if i was in the pub with mates and disagreed with something they said i would tell them in conversation to p off or f off. It wouldn't be done in a threatening or insulting way though, and things appear very different when wrote down than when said. That's how i read it, it was heat of the moment reaction that probably wasn't meant as it read, and shouldn't cause a big fall out. That's all.
Come on, lets all move on otherwise we're all going to be a very bitter bunch. And following a football team shouldn't really be like that.
God, if we lose at home to Palace, i don't think i'll log on for a month :-)
1. If we sacked Pardew today, pay him off, pay Parkinson and the rest of his staff off, who would you bring in as manager who would a) want to work at this level, b) want the job knowing that giving managers very little time is becoming a habit here, c) be out of work at the moment because paying a fee for a manager would take most of our small transfer budget.
2. If we don't sack pardew, and in the next ten days, bring in a decent striker and defender, pick up six points off Blackpool and Watford and sitting just 4 points off the top of the league, don't you think your call to sack him in hindsight, would of looked premature at best, foolish at worst ?
And if you're answer to 1. is Billy Davies, then forget it. He burnt bridges by p1ssing the club around before, and has done his level best to see Derby relegated with the lowest ever points score.
We'll never agree on everything, but on the whole let's stick together people!
For the record, despite a recent loss-of-plot combined with a lack of discipline, I am sticking by Pardew. I have no idea how influential or effective his coaching team are, so will keep my opinion focused on him as is the man in charge. He does need to do some decent moves in the transfer market though - will take some effort with the small amount of money I suspect we have available.
All I feel I can do is cheer them on when I go to matches and try to ride out the rough patches with optimism and patience.
I really can't understand why people are wetting themselves because we played 1 up front. If the system is played properly then we are in fact playing a 4-3-3, is that not more atacking than just 2 up front.
The problem is not the formation, the problem is that we have been playing poorly. Piss poor play is piss poor play and I have yet to see a formation that will make a poorly performing side play better.
dude, i am actually shitting a brick thinking about this fixture, they are going to give us a right proper old hammering i reckon, and i will tell you now that'll feck up my whole year! Yesterday, after the Col U game, i had the real hump, when charlton lose to rubbish, i get well angry! If we get beat by Warnocks men, it will be absolutely gutting!
Well, that's what most of us used to do most of the time when we watched Charlton play.
Now it's just periods of stony silence punctuated by abuse at individual players at the first misplaced pass.
How many go to cheer the team on, especially when we go a goal down?
That seems a bit of a cop out to be honest. It's not just to you but any of the others that have suggested sacking Pardew. Unless there is someone better to replace him, what would we gain by sacking him?
That last comment is a bit of grabbing at straws to bolster your arguement. Which ex players are you talking about, I assume Lisbie? If that is the case then why was Lisbie never able to "raise his game" in the previous 12 years he was with us if it is all down to Pardew?
As for players on loan, how many of them have actually played for Pardew?
Don't read to much into things. I knew you'd give a full response and i was interested in your view.
In my view, Pardew has made mistakes, but should be given time to put them right. Till the end of the season at least. Chopping and changing regimes rarely benefits a club in the long-term, and only increases the longevity of instability. The worst that can happen this season is we don't get promoted and remain in the Championship. Its not a consequence that requires a panic reaction.
I've never really been a believer of chopping a manager mid-season, but if you are to do so then it should be in early December, given a new guy a few weeks to identify new targets and set the wheels in motion. Changing now is pretty much too late already for that.
And we're still FIFTH in the league.......