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++Charlie Kelman signs on a 4 year deal++
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I think people need to understand that the way we set up, means that it is extremely hard for any striker to score. Essentially even in possession we are keeping seven players behind the ball and not overcommitted in attack. As we don't have midfield runners stretching defences, the two players furthest forward are much easier to mark, as there is nothing happening to give defenders decisions to make. This is great for keeping things tight, and making us hard to beat, but clearly makes us limited in attack.3
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I completely understand that and have said as much.brownbear said:I think people need to understand that the way we set up, means that it is extremely hard for any striker to score. Essentially even in possession we are keeping seven players behind the ball and not overcommitted in attack. As we don't have midfield runners stretching defences, the two players furthest forward are much easier to mark, as there is nothing happening to give defenders decisions to make. This is great for keeping things tight, and making us hard to beat, but clearly makes us limited in attack.
I happen to think that Oloafe would be better suited to the forward press role. He certainly deserves a chance. And maybe Kelman coming on later might change his fortunes as well1 -
Strange people are advocating tanto to replace Kelman, whenever tanto’s come on he’s been a like for like replacement for TC.I’m still convinced a tanto/Kelman combo is our best strike partnership.5
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I think it's more that he has enough stamina and speed, alongside TC, to keep the opposition playing back and forth without being able to break forward, increasing the likelyhood of having to play into a marked player, or go long. Leaburn at the moment, whilst he is winning his duels and nicking the ball more often, doesn't have the stamina to keep that back and forth press going, hence why Wednesday were able to break out down the left so often in the second half.Chunes said:Am I the only one that doesn't find Kelman's pressing that impressive... I struggle to believe that it's the basis for him staying in the team.
He has won possession in the final 3rd just 3 times in 537 minutes. By comparison, Leaburn has won it 11 times in 406 minutes.1 -
You’re absolutely right, that does sound ridiculous.balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.9 -
I'm sure you do appreciate it, but its no coincidence that after ten games our 4 strikers have two goals between them!! Watching the game on Saturday the front two in the first half are mainly feeding on high balls and 'seconds', we're just not getting players into the final third playing cute one twos or balls into feet from ten feet away, that as a striker you can work with.carly burn said:
I completely understand that and have said as much.brownbear said:I think people need to understand that the way we set up, means that it is extremely hard for any striker to score. Essentially even in possession we are keeping seven players behind the ball and not overcommitted in attack. As we don't have midfield runners stretching defences, the two players furthest forward are much easier to mark, as there is nothing happening to give defenders decisions to make. This is great for keeping things tight, and making us hard to beat, but clearly makes us limited in attack.
I happen to think that Oloafe would be better suited to the forward press role. He certainly deserves a chance. And maybe Kelman coming on later might change his fortunes as well
I think we all have to accept that consolidation is so important this season, that we have to sacrifice flair and extravagance for the time being.
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I was definitely one of the more negative people about signing Kelman. If he wasn’t playing well or wasn’t improving then I’d be concerned. But I think after starting off poorly, he has been getting better each week. Was a real handful on Saturday, and it’s a shame we have a game Tuesday which he was probably subbed with that in mind, as it could have been a good game to leave him on for him to get that goal against a poor defenceBraziliance said:It is concerning he hasn't scored in 10, but, he is adjusting to a higher standard of football in a new team, and we are undoubtedly a worse team when he comes off.
Josh Sargent is probably the best striker in this league, but I specifically remember Norwich fans at the Valley in 2022 chanting "If Sargent scores, we're on the pitch". It isn't always easy for a striker to hit the ground running, unless they're special.
He is on a long contract, and Nathan Jones specifically wanted him. He will get going at some point 👍🏻
I’ve said it a few times but last season he only had 3 goals by mid-December, and then won the golden boot. Just needs a bit of confidence and then he’ll be fine8 -
The people calling for Tanto to replace Kelman do realise he’s only scored one goal aswell? And when he has started hasn’t done enough to take the starting spot. A goal put on a plate the likes of which Kelman hasn’t been supplied all season. If we are judging it by goals scored not sure 1 goal swings it enough. So we are then down to playing the system and work rate, therefore don’t see why Kelman looses his place. To caveat this I do like Tanto but don’t see it being one or the other. Think it’s more of a formation issue that NJ won’t change. Kelman will get goals….. I hope, I’m really pulling for the fella, he’s Charlton and gets my full support.1
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Based on a couple of goals he's scored in the league below the one in which Kelman won the golden boot last season?balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.3 -
Olaofe hasn't stated a game in the league yet!Sword65pf said:The people calling for Tanto to replace Kelman do realise he’s only scored one goal aswell? And when he has started hasn’t done enough to take the starting spot. A goal put on a plate the likes of which Kelman hasn’t been supplied all season. If we are judging it by goals scored not sure 1 goal swings it enough. So we are then down to playing the system and work rate, therefore don’t see why Kelman looses his place. To caveat this I do like Tanto but don’t see it being one or the other. Think it’s more of a formation issue that NJ won’t change. Kelman will get goals….. I hope, I’m really pulling for the fella, he’s Charlton and gets my full support.
He did start in both league cup games. I remember him having a decent game against stevenage. He wasn't so great in the Cambridge game but then he was playing with a bunch of kids.
I hope he starts on Tuesday. It's time to give him a go.3 -
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We are doing better so far than any reasonable expectation we could have had before the season started. I can’t understand why anyone would want to significantly mess with the system that is working this far.
Opinion seems to be divided between those who can see that if the sum of the whole is greater than the parts then don’t change the parts and those who think it’s 1957 and a striker should be considered rubbish if he isn’t scoring 45 goals a season by pushing the goalkeeper into the net. Thankfully Nathan Jones seems more inclined to the former.5 -
No mate, as I said "for our system". Mbick just looks like a more rounded striker. If we are going to play TC down the side running from deep, then I believe the essentially lone striker needs to have more of a physical presence. Kone would have been ideal.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Based on a couple of goals he's scored in the league below the one in which Kelman won the golden boot last season?balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.
Lets be honest, Mbick might not have scored more than Kelman but he certainly wouldn't have scored less. And goals is supposed to be Kelman's main currency. How many assists has he got?
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Kelman has 537 minutes on the pitch in the league this season. Tanto has 124 with no league starts.Sword65pf said:The people calling for Tanto to replace Kelman do realise he’s only scored one goal aswell? And when he has started hasn’t done enough to take the starting spot. A goal put on a plate the likes of which Kelman hasn’t been supplied all season. If we are judging it by goals scored not sure 1 goal swings it enough. So we are then down to playing the system and work rate, therefore don’t see why Kelman looses his place. To caveat this I do like Tanto but don’t see it being one or the other. Think it’s more of a formation issue that NJ won’t change. Kelman will get goals….. I hope, I’m really pulling for the fella, he’s Charlton and gets my full support.
Both are new signings in the summer, both cost 7 figure sums, and both would like to play down the middle.
But only one has been starting games.0 -
I think we should recall Mbick and Kanu in Jan and play a front 3 of Kanu Leaburn Mbick for the remainder of the season just to watch this place utterly fcking implode, only a biologist with Parkinson's would spill more DNA.1
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It is the sum of the total though. We'd be unbeaten with 16 points after an hour in the 8 games Kelman has started without a single goal conceded so, perhaps, defending from the front and the hard work that he is producing is the reason for Kelman's continued starting spot.balham red said:
No mate, as I said "for our system". Mbick just looks like a more rounded striker. If we are going to play TC down the side running from deep, then I believe the essentially lone striker needs to have more of a physical presence. Kone would have been ideal.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Based on a couple of goals he's scored in the league below the one in which Kelman won the golden boot last season?balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.
Lets be honest, Mbick might not have scored more than Kelman but he certainly wouldn't have scored less. And goals is supposed to be Kelman's main currency. How many assists has he got?
NJ will have his reasons why he sent Mbick out on loan (probably because he doesn't think he's ready for this level) and why he didn't sign Kone instead (perhaps because he doesn't think he would fit into his way of playing).
When all is said and done, though, we are 9th in the Championship and QPR are 11th whereas Colchester are 14th in League 2. Just to also point out that Middlesbrough are currently in second place and their two joint top scorers have two goals each and they've had 12 different players to find the net.
We're not doing that much wrong and the reason we are there and why we were promoted is because of the decisions NJ has made. Perhaps we should trust him?2 -
If we’d been able to sign Kone then we definitely would have done. Would have been a no brainer decision, even if some on this thread disagreed in the summer, if we had the choice of Kelman or Kone then we’d have signed KoneAddick Addict said:
It is the sum of the total though. We'd be unbeaten with 16 points after an hour in the 8 games Kelman has started without a single goal conceded so, perhaps, defending from the front and the hard work that he is producing is the reason for Kelman's continued starting spot.balham red said:
No mate, as I said "for our system". Mbick just looks like a more rounded striker. If we are going to play TC down the side running from deep, then I believe the essentially lone striker needs to have more of a physical presence. Kone would have been ideal.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Based on a couple of goals he's scored in the league below the one in which Kelman won the golden boot last season?balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.
Lets be honest, Mbick might not have scored more than Kelman but he certainly wouldn't have scored less. And goals is supposed to be Kelman's main currency. How many assists has he got?
NJ will have his reasons why he sent Mbick out on loan (probably because he doesn't think he's ready for this level) and why he didn't sign Kone instead (perhaps because he doesn't think he would fit into his way of playing).
When all is said and done, though, we are 9th in the Championship and QPR are 11th whereas Colchester are 14th in League 2. We're not doing that much wrong and the reason we are there and why we were promoted is because of the decisions NJ has made.He wouldn’t have signed for us though, QPR are an established championship team so they would always be his pick. The potential he has means he was always going to have established championship interest which we can’t compete with until we’ve stayed up this season2 -
Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Olaofe hasn't stated a game in the league yet!Sword65pf said:The people calling for Tanto to replace Kelman do realise he’s only scored one goal aswell? And when he has started hasn’t done enough to take the starting spot. A goal put on a plate the likes of which Kelman hasn’t been supplied all season. If we are judging it by goals scored not sure 1 goal swings it enough. So we are then down to playing the system and work rate, therefore don’t see why Kelman looses his place. To caveat this I do like Tanto but don’t see it being one or the other. Think it’s more of a formation issue that NJ won’t change. Kelman will get goals….. I hope, I’m really pulling for the fella, he’s Charlton and gets my full support.
He did start in both league cup games. I remember him having a decent game against stevenage. He wasn't so great in the Cambridge game but then he was playing with a bunch of kids.
I hope he starts on Tuesday. It's time to give him a go.For many reasons it is clearly not working with Campbell and Kelman upfront, bring Olaofe in with Kelman and see what results that brings.1 -
I did think that a few weeks ago but I've come to the natural conclusion that Olaofe could provide the exact same level of output if not more than we are currently getting from KelmanAddick Addict said:
It is the sum of the total though. We'd be unbeaten with 16 points after an hour in the 8 games Kelman has started without a single goal conceded so, perhaps, defending from the front and the hard work that he is producing is the reason for Kelman's continued starting spot.balham red said:
No mate, as I said "for our system". Mbick just looks like a more rounded striker. If we are going to play TC down the side running from deep, then I believe the essentially lone striker needs to have more of a physical presence. Kone would have been ideal.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Based on a couple of goals he's scored in the league below the one in which Kelman won the golden boot last season?balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.
Lets be honest, Mbick might not have scored more than Kelman but he certainly wouldn't have scored less. And goals is supposed to be Kelman's main currency. How many assists has he got?
NJ will have his reasons why he sent Mbick out on loan (probably because he doesn't think he's ready for this level) and why he didn't sign Kone instead (perhaps because he doesn't think he would fit into his way of playing).
When all is said and done, though, we are 9th in the Championship and QPR are 11th whereas Colchester are 14th in League 2. Just to also point out that Middlesbrough are currently in second place and their two joint top scorers have two goals each and they've had 12 different players to find the net.
We're not doing that much wrong and the reason we are there and why we were promoted is because of the decisions NJ has made. Perhaps we should trust him?0 -
Would like to see a Kelman x Tanto partnership just once just to settle whether it’s the personnel on the pitch and style of play or just Kelman is not that great because no matter how underwhelming Kelman has been we’re always going to ask what if unless it’s been tested
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While I think Campbell needs a rest, I'd like to see a Campbell and Tanto partnership tried out, with Tanto through the middle, as he's primarily not a winger and deserves a chance in the No 9 role.
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I agree. But happen to think that Campbell is probably one of the first on Nathan's team sheet. Can't see him dropping him. The Kelman role is probably Tantos only option at a starting berth at the moment imo.Crispywood said:Would like to see a Kelman x Tanto partnership just once just to settle whether it’s the personnel on the pitch and style of play or just Kelman is not that great because no matter how underwhelming Kelman has been we’re always going to ask what if unless it’s been tested0 -
People keep saying to not judge kelman on his fee as it wasn't his choice, and thats fair enough, but if we were judging him on his performances for us alone, then he wouldn't be in the starting line up. Its as simple as that. However ineffective people say TC has been, his output has been far greater than Kelmans.Crispywood said:Would like to see a Kelman x Tanto partnership just once just to settle whether it’s the personnel on the pitch and style of play or just Kelman is not that great because no matter how underwhelming Kelman has been we’re always going to ask what if unless it’s been tested4 -
And you are basing that on a couple of highlight reels where he’s bullying League Two defenders? I’m not denigrating that and good luck to the lad but suggest he should be leading the line for us is, at this point in time, ridiculous.balham red said:Might sound ridiculous, but I reckon Mbick is a better option for our system.3 -
We tried it once and lost 3-1 to Cambridge though...Diebythesword said:Strange people are advocating tanto to replace Kelman, whenever tanto’s come on he’s been a like for like replacement for TC.I’m still convinced a tanto/Kelman combo is our best strike partnership.0 -
Oh come on, don't read anything into that Cambridge game.Callumcafc said:
We tried it once and lost 3-1 to Cambridge though...Diebythesword said:Strange people are advocating tanto to replace Kelman, whenever tanto’s come on he’s been a like for like replacement for TC.I’m still convinced a tanto/Kelman combo is our best strike partnership.
They were playing in front of a team of kids. And they hardly had a dominant midfield behind them creating loads of chances for them.1 -
And we still took 15 points from the 8 games.Addick Addict said:
In the 8 games where Kelman has started we've scored 5 and conceded just 1 goal in a total of 500 minutes. In those remaining 220 minutes, after he's been taken off, we've scored 5 goals but we've conceded 4 times.
These are the minutes played and the score at the time Kelman was withdrawn:
Watford (71) 0-0
Bristol City (60) 0-0
Millwall (61) 1-0
Sheff Utd (61) 0-0
Blackburn (60) 1-0
Derby (57) 1-0
Preston (69) 0-1
Sheff Wed (61) 2-0
So the only game we were losing when Kelman departed the pitch was Preston. Interestingly, that goal was scored in the 67th minute when, ordinarily, he's already been taken off. Put another way, had those matches ended at the point Kelman was taken off then we would have taken 15 points from 8 matches.1 -
If he comes good, he was 100% a Jones target.Braziliance said:It is concerning he hasn't scored in 10, but, he is adjusting to a higher standard of football in a new team, and we are undoubtedly a worse team when he comes off.
Josh Sargent is probably the best striker in this league, but I specifically remember Norwich fans at the Valley in 2022 chanting "If Sargent scores, we're on the pitch". It isn't always easy for a striker to hit the ground running, unless they're special.
He is on a long contract, and Nathan Jones specifically wanted him. He will get going at some point 👍🏻
If he's naff forever, he came off of one of Andy Scott's old shortlists.4 -
The midfield three that night was Knibbs, Anderson and Rankin-Costello. All senior pros.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Oh come on, don't read anything into that Cambridge game.Callumcafc said:
We tried it once and lost 3-1 to Cambridge though...Diebythesword said:Strange people are advocating tanto to replace Kelman, whenever tanto’s come on he’s been a like for like replacement for TC.I’m still convinced a tanto/Kelman combo is our best strike partnership.
They were playing in front of a team of kids. And they hardly had a dominant midfield behind them creating loads of chances for them.1 -
And they all played crap!!Callumcafc said:
The midfield three that night was Knibbs, Anderson and Rankin-Costello. All senior pros.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
Oh come on, don't read anything into that Cambridge game.Callumcafc said:
We tried it once and lost 3-1 to Cambridge though...Diebythesword said:Strange people are advocating tanto to replace Kelman, whenever tanto’s come on he’s been a like for like replacement for TC.I’m still convinced a tanto/Kelman combo is our best strike partnership.
They were playing in front of a team of kids. And they hardly had a dominant midfield behind them creating loads of chances for them.0 -
Covered End said:
And we still took 15 points from the 8 games.Addick Addict said:
In the 8 games where Kelman has started we've scored 5 and conceded just 1 goal in a total of 500 minutes. In those remaining 220 minutes, after he's been taken off, we've scored 5 goals but we've conceded 4 times.
These are the minutes played and the score at the time Kelman was withdrawn:
Watford (71) 0-0
Bristol City (60) 0-0
Millwall (61) 1-0
Sheff Utd (61) 0-0
Blackburn (60) 1-0
Derby (57) 1-0
Preston (69) 0-1
Sheff Wed (61) 2-0
So the only game we were losing when Kelman departed the pitch was Preston. Interestingly, that goal was scored in the 67th minute when, ordinarily, he's already been taken off. Put another way, had those matches ended at the point Kelman was taken off then we would have taken 15 points from 8 matches.
Indeed, so we had a net gain of zero post Kelman coming off - won 2 points in each of the games against Watford and Sheffield United but dropped two points against Millwall and Derby respectively, with the other 4 results remaining the same.0
