That’s never going to be the choice, though, is it? Ten per cent off season tickets is about £300,000, before any offsetting from changes to sales. It’s disingenuous to pretend that these are the key differentials when your commercial income is a quarter or a fifth of the average in the division, the central revenue is eight figures and you can potentially sell a player for £10m.
And, again, the whole discussion is what prices maximise ticket revenue, not what changes are fair or desirable.
Airman, Have I read that right? "Our commercial income is a quarter of the average for the division". This would seem to me to be a significant problem if true.
I’m approximating because I haven’t done the analysis, but we will be in the bottom six and there is a big gap to the top earners. That said, this is turnover not profit. It takes no account of costs, and clubs will have a wide variety of non-matchday operations and commercial deals, so it not easy to make comparisons. This is the last year for which we have published accounts. I’d expect Charlton to be sub £5m in 25/26 based on all previous performance, possibly well below that. The average in the table is £13m, so maybe a third of that?
We might get a lift from having put the retail cost of sale back in, but I can’t see it being huge and as above it’s not profit.
Charlton’s commercial income was £1.4m in 23/24 and £2.1m in 2019/20 (Championship season truncated by Covid).
Our turnover will almost certainly be in the bottom six or eight of the Championship for this season. And this should be considered alongside Player Sales revenue as well as owners appetite and ability to fund losses. For that gives the complete picture of the cashflow going into the club and therefore what the club can afford for the playing budget - same for the competition as the wage bill has a very strong correlation with final league position.
We know that the Championship is a harsh environment where often one club a season runs into difficulty as the owner loses interest or ability to finance losses, often due to mistakes over time. There's a long list of owners writing down accumulated losses of anything up to £200M in order to handover the club.
As you correctly state, CAFC commercial revenue is way, way lower than a typical Championship club so how quickly might this be addressed? Hefty increases in lounge pass prices have occurred over the last couple of seasons with the Vista lounge now costing £2,000 per season + VAT. Individual match passes aren't cheap! How much might our commercial sponsorship increase given our location and new Championship status? And what of the bars and catering where many fans object to the queues etc.?
Taking a broader view of the revenue together with our emergence form nigh on a decade in League One, one wonders whether we might look at the question posed differently. In other words, "No, prices should not be dropped - instead the club should look at improving the performances and results on the pitch for this and next season". That might sound obvious, but how many additional seats will be sold should we become a top eight contender? What will it take to retain our best players, AND to acquire even more talent next summer? The Enterprise Value of CAFC will rise significantly should we establish ourselves in the top eight simply because of increased revenue streams, massive increased value of the players and proximity to the EPL. And that could well equate to significantly more access to capital?
Perhaps we might then look at the gates as a symptom / outcome of all the other decisions, rather than a variable to be studied in isolation? All things being even, we may well hit sell out games in the home areas simply by pushing on. And with Nathan Jones and others at the helm, we certainly have people who have made this journey before. As you state, the average gate for this season will evolve so we shouldn't look at just one game. But let's instead look at the development of the performances and results under this new ownership, and see how far / how fast we might climb both the league and the revenue tables over the next year or two.
Some of what you are identifying as commercial is treated as matchday revenue, I think.
Player sales are clearly important, as owners like Duchatelet have recognised, but they are not a consistent or reliable revenue stream and they also damage your chances of growing other revenue.
The owners will likely need to contribute £10m this season, which is roughly the same as last year. That could be offset by sales.
Simple maths tells you that you can only raise a fraction of that even by adding 5,000 people to the average crowd - let’s say £3m - and the investment in players needed to do that (at current pricing) is likely to be several multiples of that.
Incremental tweaks are far more feasible even though the outcomes will be less dramatic.
For those not going to tonight’s cup game - what’s your reason? The price point is very attractive and you'll get to see some players that your club has spent millions on.
I imagine the explanations won’t be too different from those who skipped the Watford match, which brought the attendance down to around 22k, rather than 25k.
Autograph session before the game. Football for a fiver. Kids for a quid. 7pm kick off. Discounted voucher with your ticket on food and drink and /or club shop. Half time appearance by a social celeb.
As a former season ticket holder who lives on the Kent coast and doesn't get to many games these days, I don't think dropping prices would make any difference to me. The ticket isn't the issue, it's the cost of the whole day out. If I lived a walk or a bus ride from the ground, maybe. But I don't, and the cost of public transport to the match from where I live is the factor that means I can't afford to go that often. Unless someone has some sway on the railways, I don't see that changing, unfortunately.
For those not going to tonight’s cup game - what’s your reason? The price point is very attractive and you'll get to see some players that your club has spent millions on.
I imagine the explanations won’t be too different from those who skipped the Watford match, which brought the attendance down to around 22k, rather than 25k.
Be interesting to hear.
I do not advocate cutting seat prices, but would hope the club may operate a price freeze for a season or two. The clubto increase attendance must appeal to the newly arrived communities in our area. Though not all are mimunum wage works a high proportion are, they come with there own football allegencies from their home countries, plus those teams they watched regularly on international sports channels. These new communities must be the future supporters of the club if it is to thrive.
As a former season ticket holder who lives on the Kent coast and doesn't get to many games these days, I don't think dropping prices would make any difference to me. The ticket isn't the issue, it's the cost of the whole day out. If I lived a walk or a bus ride from the ground, maybe. But I don't, and the cost of public transport to the match from where I live is the factor that means I can't afford to go that often. Unless someone has some sway on the railways, I don't see that changing, unfortunately.
If only someone had thought of running a cheap coach service to sell extra match tickets.
As a former season ticket holder who lives on the Kent coast and doesn't get to many games these days, I don't think dropping prices would make any difference to me. The ticket isn't the issue, it's the cost of the whole day out. If I lived a walk or a bus ride from the ground, maybe. But I don't, and the cost of public transport to the match from where I live is the factor that means I can't afford to go that often. Unless someone has some sway on the railways, I don't see that changing, unfortunately.
If only someone had thought of running a cheap coach service to sell extra match tickets.
Would there not be problems with brining in more coaches and that is Greenwich`s plans for healthier/safer streets. I do not see them being happy at say 20 to 30 coaches packing up in Charlton. It would have to be that number to bring in 1200 to 1800 fans. Any thing less would seem of very little impact on increasing support for Charlton games.
As someone who doesn't know a great deal about the finances of Charlton, I just feel that every price range of season tickets are slightly high, wouldn't argue with the cheapest price but my zone one seat just feels a bit to high.
Tonight proved that cheaper prices bring in new and younger fans, as well as more families!
Great to see a lot more diversity toniggt
Yet a poor attendance, significantly less than the other championship teams this evening.
Don’t think these early cup games, against uninspiring oppo (sorry Stevenage) are exactly going to draw huge crowd - especially when fans will chose to do more away games this year.
what it did do, was being more families and locals to the ground
For those not going to tonight’s cup game - what’s your reason? The price point is very attractive and you'll get to see some players that your club has spent millions on.
I imagine the explanations won’t be too different from those who skipped the Watford match, which brought the attendance down to around 22k, rather than 25k.
Be interesting to hear.
I don’t go to early round cup games any more - they are reserve games - I only want to go to a fixture where both clubs are putting everything they have into winning the game - I watched it on sky but wouldn’t have gone anyway if it wasn’t on - I made that decision about 6 years ago and am sticking with it - later rounds when we are trying everything to win it, I’ll be there.
For those not going to tonight’s cup game - what’s your reason? The price point is very attractive and you'll get to see some players that your club has spent millions on.
I imagine the explanations won’t be too different from those who skipped the Watford match, which brought the attendance down to around 22k, rather than 25k.
Be interesting to hear.
I have an enlarged prostate. Sitting on a hard plastic seat shuffling from buttock to buttock for a couple of hours is not much fun. Missed the goal on saturday cos i'd had enough. Didn't fancy it again for Stevenage. Sorry.
Tbh I’m amazed at the crowds that keep flocking to football despite the number of people who can watch any game they want on tv with a dodgy stick or sky or similar - the predicted affect on football gates has never happened
40,000 willing to trek to Wembley but cant attract 25,000 for season opener......plastics lol
All jokes aside, it’s this narrow, ‘apples and pears comparison’ thinking that is probably at the root of not understanding what the problem is.
The ticket to Wembley is always going to comparatively more popular. The Play Off Final in a stadium that offers a more than adequate number of catering outlets and other facilities, comfortable seats (not that we used them), plenty of leg room and most likely a whole raft of other stuff and is the football equivalent of offering people and families a day out in Disney World compared to the local common fairground ride that the Valley offers it’s paying customers. The Valley may be a 27k capacity ground but its facilities and catering probably are more suitable for the 4k numbers we had last night. Wembley tickets cost more but value for money is streets ahead. The Valley’s only real attraction is the team. If we are not playing a box office match and expected to win (& we don’t have a great record in this cup, or any cup competition tbf) then the appeal of paying a premium price to go there will not be so great.
As a former season ticket holder who lives on the Kent coast and doesn't get to many games these days, I don't think dropping prices would make any difference to me. The ticket isn't the issue, it's the cost of the whole day out. If I lived a walk or a bus ride from the ground, maybe. But I don't, and the cost of public transport to the match from where I live is the factor that means I can't afford to go that often. Unless someone has some sway on the railways, I don't see that changing, unfortunately.
If only someone had thought of running a cheap coach service to sell extra match tickets.
Would there not be problems with brining in more coaches and that is Greenwich`s plans for healthier/safer streets. I do not see them being happy at say 20 to 30 coaches packing up in Charlton. It would have to be that number to bring in 1200 to 1800 fans. Any thing less would seem of very little impact on increasing support for Charlton games.
I don’t think Greenwich would have a problem with coaches. They never have. But the club is unlikely to make the effort anyway.
40,000 willing to trek to Wembley but cant attract 25,000 for season opener......plastics lol
All jokes aside, it’s this narrow, ‘apples and pears comparison’ thinking that is probably at the root of not understanding what the problem is.
The ticket to Wembley is always going to comparatively more popular. The Play Off Final in a stadium that offers a more than adequate number of catering outlets and other facilities, comfortable seats (not that we used them), plenty of leg room and most likely a whole raft of other stuff and is the football equivalent of offering people and families a day out in Disney World compared to the local common fairground ride that the Valley offers it’s paying customers. The Valley may be a 27k capacity ground but its facilities and catering probably are more suitable for the 4k numbers we had last night. Wembley tickets cost more but value for money is streets ahead. The Valley’s only real attraction is the team. If we are not playing a box office match and expected to win (& we don’t have a great record in this cup, or any cup competition tbf) then the appeal of paying a premium price to go there will not be so great.
40,000 willing to trek to Wembley but cant attract 25,000 for season opener......plastics lol
All jokes aside, it’s this narrow, ‘apples and pears comparison’ thinking that is probably at the root of not understanding what the problem is.
The ticket to Wembley is always going to comparatively more popular. The Play Off Final in a stadium that offers a more than adequate number of catering outlets and other facilities, comfortable seats (not that we used them), plenty of leg room and most likely a whole raft of other stuff and is the football equivalent of offering people and families a day out in Disney World compared to the local common fairground ride that the Valley offers it’s paying customers. The Valley may be a 27k capacity ground but its facilities and catering probably are more suitable for the 4k numbers we had last night. Wembley tickets cost more but value for money is streets ahead. The Valley’s only real attraction is the team. If we are not playing a box office match and expected to win (& we don’t have a great record in this cup, or any cup competition tbf) then the appeal of paying a premium price to go there will not be so great.
Guess you were not in the upper tier.
O, why, are Wembley’s upper tier and facilities worse than they are in the upper tiers at The Valley ?
Many people in my street don’t have London roots and support a variety of British and World clubs. They won’t go to the Valley at £30 unless it’s against their team or there’s a promotion with cheap(er) tickets. I fear that many with Charlton roots living out of London who haven’t been for a while will be difficult to entice back because of transport and match ticket costs.
Many people in my street don’t have London roots and support a variety of British and World clubs. They won’t go to the Valley at £30 unless it’s against their team or there’s a promotion with cheap(er) tickets. I fear that many with Charlton roots living out of London who haven’t been for a while will be difficult to entice back because of transport and match ticket costs.
That’s partly a choice by the club, though. Kent cricket, which admittedly has a different fixture/attendance pattern, does cheaper memberships for people who live outside the South East.
The club could run an aggressive marketing initiative to attract people back but it appears to focus on not subsidising coaches and promoting them to people already attending. Hence it runs a rump service which successive ownerships have regarded as a nuisance. It’s far easier for the club to bombard people with emails, etc.
As a former season ticket holder who lives on the Kent coast and doesn't get to many games these days, I don't think dropping prices would make any difference to me. The ticket isn't the issue, it's the cost of the whole day out. If I lived a walk or a bus ride from the ground, maybe. But I don't, and the cost of public transport to the match from where I live is the factor that means I can't afford to go that often. Unless someone has some sway on the railways, I don't see that changing, unfortunately.
If only someone had thought of running a cheap coach service to sell extra match tickets.
Would there not be problems with brining in more coaches and that is Greenwich`s plans for healthier/safer streets. I do not see them being happy at say 20 to 30 coaches packing up in Charlton. It would have to be that number to bring in 1200 to 1800 fans. Any thing less would seem of very little impact on increasing support for Charlton games.
Plenty of space on Anchor & Hope Lane for coaches to park up during the match, there'll be other spots like the Thames Barrier car park too. If a school playground's being opened as a little-used car park, turn it over for coaches instead. Ultimately the council (and TfL, who'd no doubt have a say) will have to engage with this as it'd support their rather distant dream of reducing car use in the borough.
I'm insensitive to ticket prices but the whole matchday experience is unappealing especially as I get older (I live in Herts).
There is unpredictable and often bad traffic (particularly if Spurs or West Ham are at home), virtually no parking options (a big factor if I take my old man), queues for packed post-match train platforms (if used as travel alternative), limited local food/drink options (even worse once inside the stadium)....and now the best part of half the games are available on Sky.
The lack of parking however is the biggest issue. If the club could somehow secure a couple of thousand spaces dotted around the various industrial estates etc. then it would make a huge difference to me and I suspect many others (and personally I couldn't care if they're making a small profit for facilitating it).
I only attended two home games last season and doubt I will do many more unless we are in an unlikely promotion battle. Either way I wouldn't do an evening game regardless.
In my opinion it is more important to support the team in Home games, that's where the club gets most of it's income from. Last night's game cost me a total of £10.00 to attend, over 65 price plus free travel on my 60+ Oyster card. Since i started work aged 16 i've had a season ticket so that i never have to miss a home game, although obviously have had to pay for cup games. For about the the last 40 years i've attended the vast majority of away games, but i would never prioritise an away trip instead of attending a home game. In fact Saturday [16/8/25] will be the 50th anniversary since i last missed a home game 16th August 1975, V Notts County.
In my opinion it is more important to support the team in Home games, that's where the club gets most of it's income from. Last night's game cost me a total of £10.00 to attend, over 65 price plus free travel on my 60+ Oyster card. Since i started work aged 16 i've had a season ticket so that i never have to miss a home game, although obviously have had to pay for cup games. For about the the last 40 years i've attended the vast majority of away games, but i would never prioritise an away trip instead of attending a home game. In fact Saturday [16/8/25] will be the 50th anniversary since i last missed a home game 16th August 1975, V Notts County.
Comments
The bloke in front of us had two kids under five with him, he spent the entire game entertaining them as they never seemed to be looking at the pitch
I reckon his wife said if you are disappearing for the day you take the kids with you
The owners will likely need to contribute £10m this season, which is roughly the same as last year. That could be offset by sales.
I imagine the explanations won’t be too different from those who skipped the Watford match, which brought the attendance down to around 22k, rather than 25k.
Be interesting to hear.
These new communities must be the future supporters of the club if it is to thrive.
what it did do, was being more families and locals to the ground
Missed the goal on saturday cos i'd had enough. Didn't fancy it again for Stevenage. Sorry.
The ticket to Wembley is always going to comparatively more popular. The Play Off Final in a stadium that offers a more than adequate number of catering outlets and other facilities, comfortable seats (not that we used them), plenty of leg room and most likely a whole raft of other stuff and is the football equivalent of offering people and families a day out in Disney World compared to the local common fairground ride that the Valley offers it’s paying customers. The Valley may be a 27k capacity ground but its facilities and catering probably are more suitable for the 4k numbers we had last night. Wembley tickets cost more but value for money is streets ahead. The Valley’s only real attraction is the team. If we are not playing a box office match and expected to win (& we don’t have a great record in this cup, or any cup competition tbf) then the appeal of paying a premium price to go there will not be so great.
Last night's game cost me a total of £10.00 to attend, over 65 price plus free travel on my 60+ Oyster card.
Since i started work aged 16 i've had a season ticket so that i never have to miss a home game, although obviously have had to pay for cup games.
For about the the last 40 years i've attended the vast majority of away games, but i would never prioritise an away trip instead of attending a home game.
In fact Saturday [16/8/25] will be the 50th anniversary since i last missed a home game 16th August 1975, V Notts County.