So, should Charlton drop prices to increase attendances?

PragueAddick

This is picking up on a sub-discussion which appeared in the match thread - partly my fault as I expressed mild disappointment with the figure, which in turn was a result of over-optimistic noises from the Club during the week.

It's a complex question because if you drop prices you need to be confident that the crowd will increase such that overall revenue goes up. 

The reason why there might be room for improvement is that some competitors are getting bigger crowds. I'm not therefore interested in Millwall, who don't, although they are the only direct competitors in the division for fans in our catchment area. I've chosen two Champ. clubs who are not parachute clubs and not particularly riding on a wave of optimism, AFAIK : Stoke and Middlebrough. They got 25k and 26k respectively on Sat compared to our 22k (rounding  to nearest 000). Also AFAIK disposable income in their catchment area is significantly lower than ours. 

Comparing them in any detail would be a bit of work but now we have AI. I've used Claude. Now, there are a few Lifers who I know are way ahead of me in using AI, and could improve my prompt (bloody stupid tech-bro word, btw, what's wrong with "brief"?) so I'll post my prompt next para. Summary of Claude's answer in the next post...spoiler, it does not look like we are expensive at all....

"I would like you to analyse the overall price for tickets to matches at three English Championship football clubs. The purpose is to establish whether the prices at Charlton are significantly higher than at Stoke or Middlesbrough. This will not be straightforward as the clubs will charge different amounts for different parts of the stadium and you will need to ascertain the capacity of each section. You can ignore "executive" or hospitality sections. I suggest you use the price of the next home League (not Cup) game at each club. If the club appears to charge different prices according to the status of the opponent, I will let you decide how to deal with that! It is essential to work on the prices for this new season as Charlton were in League One last season."

Laddick01

Don’t know why anyone is complaining. I brought an U12 ticket and saved loads. Walked straight in too. 

Those staying away are just lazy. Do your part like me.

PragueAddick

So, the answer. I had to reject his first attempt because he ignored the prompt and used 24-25 prices first time round, the lazy git...

The answer is pretty long so here is the link to the full thing, meanwhile the headline:

Conclusion

Charlton Athletic's ticket prices are definitively NOT significantly higher than Stoke or Middlesbrough.

The evidence clearly shows:

1. Charlton offers competitive Championship pricing despite recent promotion, with season tickets starting at £345-£375
2. Middlesbrough maintains the highest prices in the Championship, with their cheapest season ticket (£574) being 53-66% more expensive than Charlton's
3. Stoke City sits in the middle tier of Championship pricing with reasonable matchday and season ticket costs

Charlton's approach to Championship pricing appears measured and fan-friendly, especially considering the significant step up in competition level and operating costs. The club has avoided the "promotion premium" that some newly-promoted clubs implement, instead maintaining accessibility while competing at a higher level.

Middlesbrough continues to operate at the premium end of Championship pricing, justifying this through consistent attendances despite being in one of England's most economically challenged regions. This makes their pricing strategy, rather than Charlton's, the outlier in terms of being significantly higher than their peers.

Gribbo

“…disposable income in their catchment area is significantly lower than ours.”

Does that take into account the number of millionaires in the capital / Kent vrs Middlesbrough and Stoke? I ask because, considering house prices, cost of living, driving restrictions (fines / tolls / etc), and so on - things people in South East London / North Kent have to deal with - and also factoring in the demographic amongst football fans (even though it’s become very popular among the middle classes now), I’d question that view.

Probably wrong, just find it surprising - not so much generally, but amongst football fans

sam3110

I can't imagine a 3 bed flat in Middlesbrough or Stoke costs 650k. 

Tell someone that about a flat in SE London and they wouldn't bat an eyelid.

MartinCAFC

Based on the Jimmy Seed Stand being sold out as Watford did I would say 20k should be a minimum on those days.

With Millwall, Leicester, Southampton, Portsmouth, Birmingham, QPR, Coventry, Sheff Weds, Wrexham, Norwich, Oxford, Sheff Utd all likely to sell out the Jimmy Seed Stand I would probably put Watford towards the lower end of that pack in terms of being attractive opponents, probably only ahead of Oxford so probably 12th out of maybe 13 expected away end sell outs.

Of the remaining 10 home games 4 of them are on a Tuesday night which naturally see lower attended crowds which reduced prices probably won't have much impact on. That then leaves maybe 6 home games in which to target increased crowds but even then out of those 6 remaining 3pms Stoke, Blackburn, Preston, Bristol City, Hull and Swansea there's still every possibility Stoke and Bristol City may sell out the JSS. Hull on the penultimate game of the season may need a result and bring a crowd with them too.

So in reality it's probably only Blackburn, Preston and Swansea 3pm games who may not come anywhere near to selling out the JSS stand against potentially 12-15 more games that could sell out. Of the 15 + Watford I would still put Watford amongst the bottom 3-4 of most appealing teams to watch us play against.

Point is I would expect more bigger crowds than reduced crowds for the rest of the season even if results dip and we get into a relegation scrap I don't see this team rolling over to cause crowds to give up and not come back. So on that basis probably no need to reduce the prices.

That's also before you have the debate about the board's investment in the team and raised season ticket prices.

fenaddick

Problem with the headline answer you’ve been given @PragueAddick is it quotes season ticket prices not match day ones, are we still reasonable there? 

Weegie Addick

For me it is more of an issue that the lower Covered End is virtually full with STs so it can sell out easily before the match day. Add on the Meire tax and you’re looking at £35 for walk-ups.

Last season a lot of effort rightly went in to raising the club’s profile in the immediate local area / RBG to bring in new fans. That’s a good strategy when we have a big catchment and lots of people new to the area. I’d like to see the club reduce the prices in the far end blocks of West and Curbs so that there are cheaper tickets available for impulse or last minute purchases on the day.

It’s like hotel rooms - if you don’t fill them that revenue has gone.

rananegra

The other issue in the lower north/cheap seats is that it's now so crowded the chances of spending anything from 15 minutes before kick off is pretty much nil unless you're prepared to risk missing the game or popping out before half time.

valleynick66

It’s not complex. 

If you take the ticket price as approx £30 per adult you need to compare and contrast to alternate activities - given you are trying to get back floating supporters or new families. 

The comparison is theatre/cinema/restaurant/pub/Sky subscription. 

However you justify it though football is not a cheap option. 

I’ve suggested before the tactic should be something like buy a full price ticket get the next match half price. Yes season ticket price is a consideration and those were increased too far. 

For a family the total spend is the number to think about.  

cantersaddick

My personal experience is that I gave up my season ticket in 2022 when various other things in my life meant that I couldn't get to enough games to make it worth it. I said I would go game by game as and when I could but the prices have put me off a lot of times and there have been a couple seasons where I only attended 1 or 2 games. Once I was out the habit of going if I didn't have another reason to go (meet up with mates etc.) Then it was hard to justify the price. Better value last season and will be this one however we are playing given its championship football. But I would 100% attend more if it was cheaper. Haven't done a Tuesday night since I gave up my season ticker but 100% would if they were say £20. 

PragueAddick

fenaddick said:

Problem with the headline answer you’ve been given @PragueAddick is it quotes season ticket prices not match day ones, are we still reasonable there? 

There's the problem with the AI platforms, Claude rather swerved the trickier part of my brief. If you read the full answer he clearly hasn't done the full analysis section by section, based on prices for the next home game, but pretends to have done by making references to some match-day prices. 

But that said, it would be surprising if a club have much higher season ticket prices AND lower walk up prices than Charlton.

PragueAddick

valleynick66 said:

It’s not complex. 

If you take the ticket price as approx £30 per adult you need to compare and contrast to alternate activities - given you are trying to get back floating supporters or new families. 

The comparison is theatre/cinema/restaurant/pub/Sky subscription. 

However you justify it though football is not a cheap option. 

I’ve suggested before the tactic should be something like buy a full price ticket get the next match half price. Yes season ticket price is a consideration and those were increased too far. 

For a family the total spend is the number to think about.  

Sure. But equally if not more so for a family in Stoke or Middlesbrough; and the alternative activities there are not more expensive - some will be cheaper - than in London and North Kent. Yet based on yesterday's attendances they are going to have 12-15% more people through the turnstiles than us, and at higher prices; and in the case of Boro, eye wateringly higher season ticket prices, and it's not as if they don't have the capacity. 

I am sure there's room for innovative match-day promotions, maybe yours is one of them, and specifically for the sections @Weegie Addick mentions, but based on comparison with those two clubs (and I guess we could ask Claude to do the job on the whole league to see where we rank) I don't see much wrong with our season ticket prices. 

N01R4M

And the moral to this is "if you want a job done properly, don't employ AI"!!

In addition to @Gribbo's comments about disposable income, and the need to compare one-off tickets as well as season tickets, I think another relevant variable is the number of choices of ways to spend said "spare" cash.  I would argue London offers a far wider choice of leisure activities and venues than either Teesside or the Potteries, so the competition for casual uncommitted customers (as apposed to die-hard fans) is greater in Charlton than Middlesbrough or Stoke.

valleynick66

PragueAddick said:

valleynick66 said:

It’s not complex. 

If you take the ticket price as approx £30 per adult you need to compare and contrast to alternate activities - given you are trying to get back floating supporters or new families. 

The comparison is theatre/cinema/restaurant/pub/Sky subscription. 

However you justify it though football is not a cheap option. 

I’ve suggested before the tactic should be something like buy a full price ticket get the next match half price. Yes season ticket price is a consideration and those were increased too far. 

For a family the total spend is the number to think about.  

Sure. But equally if not more so for a family in Stoke or Middlesbrough; and the alternative activities there are not more expensive - some will be cheaper - than in London and North Kent. Yet based on yesterday's attendances they are going to have 12-15% more people through the turnstiles than us, and at higher prices; and in the case of Boro, eye wateringly higher season ticket prices, and it's not as if they don't have the capacity. 

I am sure there's room for innovative match-day promotions, maybe yours is one of them, and specifically for the sections @Weegie Addick mentions, but based on comparison with those two clubs (and I guess we could ask Claude to do the job on the whole league to see where we rank) I don't see much wrong with our season ticket prices. 

Doesn’t matter to me what other teams charge. 

The cost has to be relative to alternate spend in London. 

It’s how much of your disposable income it takes and many aspects of London living are already higher than elsewhere. 

Football was not historically an expensive past time. It is now. 

Uboat

I actually don’t think it’s rational. £32 a ticket makes me wince, but £28 feels reasonable. However, after transport, food, beers etc that £4 a ticket is fairly trivial, especially if both my girls come and attempt to drink the pub dry. 

Marriott110

I want to stay away from the talk of average wage comparisons and answer the original question 

Yes, we should have prices as low as possible for every ticket in the ground.

Whilst I think it’s a better model to have lower ticket prices across the board like German sides tend too do, it would benefit us greatly too, Wembley showed their is a greater fanbase than what we saw yesterday, get those people in by slashing ticket prices as a way to have a cheaper day out than going elsewhere in south London or Kent, attendances and fanbase grows and we claw back fans who may of been disillusioned after such a rubbish last few years pre Jones

Gribbo

Thought the difference (or not) in disposable income was a significant part of the original question tbh

MarcusH26

I wonder if Football For a Fiver will make an appearance this season or with all the changeable kickoff times there's probably no real point?

Manic_mania

I can only speak for myself and my little group of 4 sometimes 5 who catch about 5 games a season (for mainly work reasons) it was not at all about the price and all about the kick off time for us. Call me fickle but it just ain't the same. Pre match fry up about midday, leisurely stroll to a nearby pub for a few jars and get a bit of atmosphere, muck about selecting a few accumulators between us to follow along during the match. It's a whole routine for us... and yeah so... we ain't doing all that at 10 AM.  So we will be aiming for the Blackburn game. 

letthegoodtimesroll

Something else that is cheaper at Middlesbrough seems to be the price of a pint, in fact all 24 Championship clubs seem to have been considerably cheaper last season

Weegie Addick

Here’s that actual link. Even if these have all gone up 10-20% we are massively out of line:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/pint-of-beer-prices-for-all-24-efl-championship-clubs-ranked/

jimmymelrose

PragueAddick said:

 , AFAIK : Stoke and Middlebrough. They got 25k and 26k respectively on Sat compared to our 22k (

Really? I don't believe it. I watched the highlights this evening and there were loads of empty seats at Stoke. Last season was always the same. I don't think they do much more than half fill it. The Valley certainly looked more full than Stoke. I'm not convinced that Middlesbrough really had that many either.

Bedsaddick

I your answer to the original question. No . If we want a superior product ie a good squad , which we have , then we should expect to pay a little more . 

PragueAddick

Vjimmymelrose said:

PragueAddick said:

 , AFAIK : Stoke and Middlebrough. They got 25k and 26k respectively on Sat compared to our 22k (

Really? I don't believe it. I watched the highlights this evening and there were loads of empty seats at Stoke. Last season was always the same. I don't think they do much more than half fill it. The Valley certainly looked more full than Stoke. I'm not convinced that Middlesbrough really had that many either.

Stoke capacity is 30k and Boro 34k. The uncomfortable fact is that we won’t have had 22k either because AFAIK we count season tickets in the released figures, as do all the others. 

I believe Boro fans frequently argue that they should drop the prices and fill the place, get a better atmosphere. The question, always the question, is whether if you drop the prices the increased number of fans more than compensates and the total revenue goes up. Because if it doesnt, there is less money to spend on the player wage budget. Another inconvenient fact that @valleynick66 (above) chooses to ignore - a surprise to me as in different threads you’ve been quite the hard-headed businessman.

Valleysarr

Interesting but why didn’t you do Watford or QPR ? 

Yorkshireaddick

Middlesbrough is the biggest club between Sunderland and Leeds geographically. That’s a big catchment area taking in the Tees Valley and much of North Yorkshire.

se9addick

Weegie Addick said:

Here’s that actual link. Even if these have all gone up 10-20% we are massively out of line:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/pint-of-beer-prices-for-all-24-efl-championship-clubs-ranked/

Wow, away fans must be flabbergasted when they come to the Valley!

shine166

The cost of living is a interesting one, just because it costs over a mil to buy a house locally, doesnt mean that a big % of our fans own multi million pound houses or have great paying jobs in the city. They may well be struggling to make ends meet and the price of football is just one expense too much. 

Theres a huge discrepancy in our fan bases ages, so the older crew have probably done well and seen great house prices increase over the last 3 decades and the youger lot possibly still at home on lower paid jobs.

TelMc32

se9addick said:

Weegie Addick said:

Here’s that actual link. Even if these have all gone up 10-20% we are massively out of line:

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/pint-of-beer-prices-for-all-24-efl-championship-clubs-ranked/

Wow, away fans must be flabbergasted when they come to the Valley!

Yeah, but then we’re paying for the level of service and quality of product!

🫣🤦🏻‍♂️

Gribbo

shine166 said:

The cost of living is a interesting one, just because it costs over a mil to buy a house locally, doesnt mean that a big % of our fans own multi million pound houses or have great paying jobs in the city. They may well be struggling to make ends meet and the price of football is just one expense too much. 

Theres a huge discrepancy in our fan bases ages, so the older crew have probably done well and seen great house prices increase over the last 3 decades and the youger lot possibly still at home on lower paid jobs.

Also, "disposable income" isn't necessarily reflective if what someone earns. Someone on £40k a year, but tight as a duck arse will more than likely have more disposable than someone on £150k a year, who spends £151k a year