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POST MATCH THREAD : Charlton Athletic V Crawley Town : Tuesday 3rd December 2024
Comments
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We are supporters and not party to the workings and discussions in the club. I do not think any Chairman and SMT want their company to fail, they just might not be any good and not have the product to succeed. I would hope that CM sits with NJ and finds out what is wrong. We cannot doubt that NJ knows what is needed for success ( he has done it before) so he must know what is currently happening is failing.
sounds simple but not easy.0 -
Redmidland said:Many of us, across various social media sites and Charlton forums have had their say.
The concensus seems to be pointing towards 3 different types of action, or maybe take all 3!!
1. Remove NJ from his managerial role.
2. Get a new DoF on board to help NJ change his tactics and recruitment strategy.
3. Sack the entire SMT (Rodwell, CM and Scott) as they've been an abject failure.
Now I know that the majority of fans don't partake in forums etc, so I can only surmise those that do, however, does anybody know if the 'owners' (not the useless SMT) read any of the sites?
My point being we can all give our opinions and thoughts, we can point out the crumbling attendances, the absolutely 'dire' football, the anxiety of where this will finish, and the general feeling that OUR club is on 'life support', BUT if no-one in charge is reading any of this, they, I guess are blissfully unaware of how we feel.
Does there need to be some kind of individual communication (emails etc) direct to the owners to voice our concerns?
I'm not calling for protests or plastic pigs or anything remotely like that, however there are some good ideas that are circulating around, but they're circulating just around the fanbase!
I don't think anything will change with Charlieboy in charge, and he certainly isn't going to sack himself!
Somehow we need to get the message through, and it worries me that the SMT, will not be open and honest!
Am I worrying unnecessarily?CAST or Supporters liasion officer need to get on the case? Seems the only route whereby our opinion as fans can be accuratly portrayed and honestly presented? Other than that us all talking on forums is good for venting but wont do anything to change any percieved issues in the club.I don't know what is best to do to move our club in the right direction, but a decent DoF does seem like a good start...3 -
I am now 80 years old,been watching since the 50s and can honestly say I have never felt so low watching this club go to the dogs.no joke,I almost went to bed in tears on tuesday night,I was that depressed.You are quite right in whats you say,however bad the team has been over the years,there was always players you could associate with,players who perhaps no t very skilful,but run their nuts off.Take their second goal ,appalling keeping but just look at the amount of red shirts within 5-10 yards of the ball who just stood and watched,while their guy said thanks very much.Even the shot,the guy was 30 yards out when he got the ball and was not challenged until he was near the area,and then only a token leg was waved.I watched from my armchair,a 60 mile round trip,a one mile walk to the ground in the freezing cold just did not appeal to me ,and I am sure many others.I ask my self,in my declining years,is this how I am going to remember this once great football club.golfaddick said:I actually thought Crawley were poor first 15 mins & said so in the match thread. Not Burton poor but relegation fodder. Couldn't get out of their half & when they did they didnt get near our box. It was all us (possession wise) & we were winning tackle after tackle and turning over play.
Problem was, like ever, is that we didnt capitalise and because we have no ooomph upfront our play just peaters out. Crosses over hit, under hit, dont clear the first man. And that's when we do actually cross the ball (which was rare) because we dont have the player to do so.
We really should have been 3 nil up at half time. But we've not scored 3 in a league match all season & barely score in the first half of games either.
Worst football since I've watching (mid 70's) and that includes the seasons where we had players like Dowman, Billy Lansdown & Phil Ferns. Even in the early 80's when we were had attendances around the 5000-6000 figure we had players like Carl Harris, Martin Robinson & Phil Walker who would excite you as they took on defenders & tried their hardest. And then there was Killer. Didn't close down defenders or bust a gut needlessly but knew where the goal was.32 -
If the manager and players have anything about them they won't be feeling sorry for themselves but will be giving everything to do something about this. Not getting defensive or angry except with themselves. Their only defence to the criticism is they are rubbish so assuming that is not the case or they do not believe it is the case, let's see what their response is.0
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thickandthin63 said:
I am now 80 years old,been watching since the 50s and can honestly say I have never felt so low watching this club go to the dogs.no joke,I almost went to bed in tears on tuesday night,I was that depressed.You are quite right in whats you say,however bad the team has been over the years,there was always players you could associate with,players who perhaps no t very skilful,but run their nuts off.Take their second goal ,appalling keeping but just look at the amount of red shirts within 5-10 yards of the ball who just stood and watched,while their guy said thanks very much.Even the shot,the guy was 30 yards out when he got the ball and was not challenged until he was near the area,and then only a token leg was waved.I watched from my armchair,a 60 mile round trip,a one mile walk to the ground in the freezing cold just did not appeal to me ,and I am sure many others.I ask my self,in my declining years,is this how I am going to remember this once great football club.golfaddick said:I actually thought Crawley were poor first 15 mins & said so in the match thread. Not Burton poor but relegation fodder. Couldn't get out of their half & when they did they didnt get near our box. It was all us (possession wise) & we were winning tackle after tackle and turning over play.
Problem was, like ever, is that we didnt capitalise and because we have no ooomph upfront our play just peaters out. Crosses over hit, under hit, dont clear the first man. And that's when we do actually cross the ball (which was rare) because we dont have the player to do so.
We really should have been 3 nil up at half time. But we've not scored 3 in a league match all season & barely score in the first half of games either.
Worst football since I've watching (mid 70's) and that includes the seasons where we had players like Dowman, Billy Lansdown & Phil Ferns. Even in the early 80's when we were had attendances around the 5000-6000 figure we had players like Carl Harris, Martin Robinson & Phil Walker who would excite you as they took on defenders & tried their hardest. And then there was Killer. Didn't close down defenders or bust a gut needlessly but knew where the goal was.
Can someone please fwd this to Sparrow Lane and put it up in the changing rooms? or better yet to the SMT.
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Why? Is there an embargo, because I thought we had a decent playing budget for this league, to the extent that we didn't need the most prolific striker or most creative midfielder to succeed?rememberbillybonds said:We are supporters and not party to the workings and discussions in the club. I do not think any Chairman and SMT want their company to fail, they just might not be any good and not have the product to succeed. I would hope that CM sits with NJ and finds out what is wrong. We cannot doubt that NJ knows what is needed for success ( he has done it before) so he must know what is currently happening is failing.
sounds simple but not easy.0 -
I'd say it's more a case of a lack of ability rather than a lack of effort.Briston_Addick said:
The players looked like they couldn't be arsed, there wasn't a great deal of chasing and pressing on show.2 -
I think we can all see that there is effort from the players, Im not sure that there is a lack of ability either I think its obvious that they are being told to play this way, this wont end well imo as the players will start to feel they are being mugged off by the coaching staff having to persist with this shite. People have said Miles doesnt look himself ? maybe he is pissed off with watching the ball coming out of the sky for 90 minutes. I have said this before but all that bollocks about NJ not wanting to use the loan market who would send any decent youngsters to a club that is set up to play this way ?Redskin said:
I'd say it's more a case of a lack of ability rather than a lack of effort.Briston_Addick said:
The players looked like they couldn't be arsed, there wasn't a great deal of chasing and pressing on show.9 -
I do not want to appear awkward but I was never of the opinion George Dobson was creative. He is a great midfield player who is missed but not the creative player we need. Doherty was supposed to be that. Coventry and Taylor are not creative either.The reason the forwards look lost is there is no service to them. I do not count the “ave it” balls we send out of defence.
On a completely different tact, is not owning the ground and training ground a restriction to progress?5 -
rememberbillybonds said:I do not want to appear awkward but I was never of the opinion George Dobson was creative. He is a great midfield player who is missed but not the creative player we need. Doherty was supposed to be that. Coventry and Taylor are not creative either.The reason the forwards look lost is there is no service to them. I do not count the “ave it” balls we send out of defence.
On a completely different tact, is not owning the ground and training ground a restriction to progress?
Longer-term - potentially yes. Shorter-term/right now - No.
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Today is pre match interview day.
The person shoved out as the public face of the club today will be Nathan Jones.
The problem is it is likely he will be interviewed by a person or people who are constrained from asking him repeated and searching questions.
Nathan Jones always gives the impression that he dislikes the interviews (he is impressively articulate most of the time though) and it is somehow doing the fans a big favour.
Yet the club emails and advertises for support and half season tickets and whatever. The dynamic is ‘give us undying loyal support’ even ‘get onboard with this journey’ whilst at the same time not giving a damn about the support in any meaningful way.
If Nathan Jones is the only face of the club then he should be asked the very challenging questions until someone else faces us. If that means he is reduced to denying responsibilities then he can say so, if that means he blames another individual(s) at the club then he should say so.
The crap results, crap communications about things that matter to fans like knowing about streams, or ticket availability, or times, the crap infrastructure like even having turnstiles open, and for me most recently the appalling event for dear Kevin Nolan…and more.
If Jones is the only public facing person put out there, then he can take the heat if there are interviewers with the cojones to ask very hard questions about everything going on.
Maybe they are all the same as Burger Boy where his default position was ‘if you don’t like it, eff off, and don’t come back’.
Jones reaction about the fans after Tuesday was terrible, and it is clear to me that our Oxford United devotee as CEO sees the fans as distant ballast for his weird ambitions.10 -
When did you last see any of our midfield pick up the ball and run with it as the Crawley mids did on Tuesday? We have a one paced, uncreative midfield group who spend most of the games watching the ball fly over their heads. This is not fixable by a new manager, they will have to be cleared out. The best we can hope for this season is that we can grind out enough results to avoid relegation.rememberbillybonds said:I do not want to appear awkward but I was never of the opinion George Dobson was creative. He is a great midfield player who is missed but not the creative player we need. Doherty was supposed to be that. Coventry and Taylor are not creative either.The reason the forwards look lost is there is no service to them. I do not count the “ave it” balls we send out of defence.
On a completely different tact, is not owning the ground and training ground a restriction to progress?3 -
I think the overreactions of NJ pitchside could have a great unsettling affect on the players.
They have all got the gitters and rush at everything. There is no sense of calm in their play, and there is no one out there who can just put his foot on the ball and take control. The absence of a commanding captain to influence the play on the pitch has been a weakness for years now.
Many have said that the players have the ability to do well in this league (they have already proven this with a few strong results), but the unsettling? influence of Jones on the sidelines during play, I feel sure, does not help to bring out the best. (IMO).
Visiting managers tend to present a more professional image (in the main), while our manager now attracts regular cards. If Jones could keep his cool and save his reactions until the halftime talk, then maybe the players can perform more to their strengths during play? At present, everything is so intense and rushed.
Jones is an intense individual and probably cannot change, but he must find a way to introduce a more confident set of players who can deliver a better and more consistent performance on match days.
He has the knowledge, and I do not want to see another change of manager, but this poor level of performances on the pitch has to change now before we plunge lower in the league and get entangled in a relegation fight.
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I was there on Tuesday.
It seems to me that our game tactics should be named "Pinball" as they appear to be based on the workings of a pinball machine.
The game starts with the ball (the football) being pinged by the plunger ("Hoofball") to the top of the machine (the pitch), after which gravity (the opposition) tries to draw the ball back down towards the centre drain (our goal).
The initial line of defence is the bumpers and holes (midfield and attack) which react when hit by the ball by shooting it off at top speed in a random direction (as demonstrated by most of our headers and passes).
Eventually the ball will be drawn down towards the bottom of the machine where the flippers (our back three) will propel it back up to the top in the hope that it will bounce off a few more bumpers and holes before it falls back down again where the whole process is repeated.
Inevitably, the ball will eventually find its way to the centre of the machine as it falls (a long range shot by the opposition) and roll unopposed into the centre drain and the game is over.
Occasionally the bumpers and holes will strike lucky and win a bonus ball (we score).
The whole game is managed by the player (NJ) who, if they are like me, is high on adrenalin, jumping around a lot, shouting a few obscenities, and trying to nudge the machine to gain a few more points whilst, all the time, knowing he has no control of what is happening on the table in front of him as it is complete chaos.
"The Who" put this all in a song although I can't imagine who the "Deaf, dumb and blind kid" is (I haven't mentioned our SMT!).
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Brilliant description of NJ tactics
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Superb, it is spot on1
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Ha, this makes me laugh.Tunwellsaddick said:I think the overreactions of NJ pitchside could have a great unsettling affect on the players.
They have all got the gitters and rush at everything. There is no sense of calm in their play, and there is no one out there who can just put his foot on the ball and take control. The absence of a commanding captain to influence the play on the pitch has been a weakness for years now.
Many have said that the players have the ability to do well in this league (they have already proven this with a few strong results), but the unsettling? influence of Jones on the sidelines during play, I feel sure, does not help to bring out the best. (IMO).
Visiting managers tend to present a more professional image (in the main), while our manager now attracts regular cards. If Jones could keep his cool and save his reactions until the halftime talk, then maybe the players can perform more to their strengths during play? At present, everything is so intense and rushed.
Jones is an intense individual and probably cannot change, but he must find a way to introduce a more confident set of players who can deliver a better and more consistent performance on match days.
He has the knowledge, and I do not want to see another change of manager, but this poor level of performances on the pitch has to change now before we plunge lower in the league and get entangled in a relegation fight.
When we had Appleton everyone was moaning that he just sat there unanimated.
Now we have the mega animated guy.
Both managers have got crap results.
When will people realise that the manager is not the major problem?
I’m curious now to know who people would prefer? Can we hold a vote between MA and NJ?
Would you vote NJ but still want him sacked?3 -
My answer to that is yes. I dont mind his touchline antics and I hated Appletons cant be arsed attitude. But unfortunately his attitude on the sideline and the potential flareup is the only excitement likely to be happening during the game. For someone so obviously passionate to be able to put out such an uninspiring team performance is truely remarkablejimmymelrose said:
Ha, this makes me laugh.Tunwellsaddick said:I think the overreactions of NJ pitchside could have a great unsettling affect on the players.
They have all got the gitters and rush at everything. There is no sense of calm in their play, and there is no one out there who can just put his foot on the ball and take control. The absence of a commanding captain to influence the play on the pitch has been a weakness for years now.
Many have said that the players have the ability to do well in this league (they have already proven this with a few strong results), but the unsettling? influence of Jones on the sidelines during play, I feel sure, does not help to bring out the best. (IMO).
Visiting managers tend to present a more professional image (in the main), while our manager now attracts regular cards. If Jones could keep his cool and save his reactions until the halftime talk, then maybe the players can perform more to their strengths during play? At present, everything is so intense and rushed.
Jones is an intense individual and probably cannot change, but he must find a way to introduce a more confident set of players who can deliver a better and more consistent performance on match days.
He has the knowledge, and I do not want to see another change of manager, but this poor level of performances on the pitch has to change now before we plunge lower in the league and get entangled in a relegation fight.
When we had Appleton everyone was moaning that he just sat there unanimated.
Now we have the mega animated guy.
Both managers have got crap results.
When will people realise that the manager is not the major problem?
I’m curious now to know who people would prefer? Can we hold a vote between MA and NJ?
Would you vote NJ but still want him sacked?1 -
Perhaps we should not be too harsh on some of the players, I got the distinct impression on Tuesday (particularly when Coventry was being substituted) that they are far from happy with how they were being asked to play.5
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But if you’d prefer NJ but still want him sacked, who would you then prefer?
Holden, Adkins?
Do you really think any manager would have more than our customary 6 month bounce?
I don’t believe it.0 -
jimmymelrose said:But if you’d prefer NJ but still want him sacked, who would you then prefer?
Holden, Adkins?
Do you really think any manager would have more than our customary 6 month bounce?
I don’t believe it.
But it's the SMT's job to worry about who comes next, and how long they get, isn't it? That should be part of everyday planning for the future. If they can't or won't sack NJ and appoint a better fit then the blame is on them and they deserve to face fans anger.4 -
I start by saying I have no idea what’s in the background or individual circumstances. But throughout Tuesdays game Miles Leaburn played and looked like he did not want to be there.9
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I suspect given our private equity/hedge fund owners and the usual desire of that type for quick results in line with plan the SMT will be more concerned about their own future's than that of Nathan Jones. Whether our owners want to have another go with a new SMT, make a fire sale, or engage with RD's property play waits to be seen. Our best hope is that NJ realises that is Route 1/hoofball routine isn't what is needed and tries pdq to get the team playing the type of passing football I remember from Luton on their way up.swords_alive said:jimmymelrose said:But if you’d prefer NJ but still want him sacked, who would you then prefer?
Holden, Adkins?
Do you really think any manager would have more than our customary 6 month bounce?
I don’t believe it.
But it's the SMT's job to worry about who comes next, and how long they get, isn't it? That should be part of everyday planning for the future. If they can't or won't sack NJ and appoint a better fit then the blame is on them and they deserve to face fans anger.1 -
A bit more humility from NJ and a bit less windbaggery wouldn't go amiss either.4
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These ideas that Jones needs to change what he does or who he is seem quite irrelevant to my mind. This is him and where he's got us to. Not good enough and time to depart. The longer it is left the worse the situation gets and the harder it will be to recover from.5
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Anderson is the one who can do that. For all his faults, our midfield combination on Tuesday wasn't better without him.Southbank said:
When did you last see any of our midfield pick up the ball and run with it as the Crawley mids did on Tuesday? We have a one paced, uncreative midfield group who spend most of the games watching the ball fly over their heads. This is not fixable by a new manager, they will have to be cleared out. The best we can hope for this season is that we can grind out enough results to avoid relegation.rememberbillybonds said:I do not want to appear awkward but I was never of the opinion George Dobson was creative. He is a great midfield player who is missed but not the creative player we need. Doherty was supposed to be that. Coventry and Taylor are not creative either.The reason the forwards look lost is there is no service to them. I do not count the “ave it” balls we send out of defence.
On a completely different tact, is not owning the ground and training ground a restriction to progress?5 -
Nathan Jones ! Aka Howard (Mr Nice) Marks, another Welsh 2 faced smooth talker. Welshman Mark Aizelwoods in prison isn't he.0
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Yesjimmymelrose said:
Ha, this makes me laugh.Tunwellsaddick said:I think the overreactions of NJ pitchside could have a great unsettling affect on the players.
They have all got the gitters and rush at everything. There is no sense of calm in their play, and there is no one out there who can just put his foot on the ball and take control. The absence of a commanding captain to influence the play on the pitch has been a weakness for years now.
Many have said that the players have the ability to do well in this league (they have already proven this with a few strong results), but the unsettling? influence of Jones on the sidelines during play, I feel sure, does not help to bring out the best. (IMO).
Visiting managers tend to present a more professional image (in the main), while our manager now attracts regular cards. If Jones could keep his cool and save his reactions until the halftime talk, then maybe the players can perform more to their strengths during play? At present, everything is so intense and rushed.
Jones is an intense individual and probably cannot change, but he must find a way to introduce a more confident set of players who can deliver a better and more consistent performance on match days.
He has the knowledge, and I do not want to see another change of manager, but this poor level of performances on the pitch has to change now before we plunge lower in the league and get entangled in a relegation fight.
When we had Appleton everyone was moaning that he just sat there unanimated.
Now we have the mega animated guy.
Both managers have got crap results.
When will people realise that the manager is not the major problem?
I’m curious now to know who people would prefer? Can we hold a vote between MA and NJ?
Would you vote NJ but still want him sacked?1 -
How much of that success was down to him though?rememberbillybonds said:We are supporters and not party to the workings and discussions in the club. I do not think any Chairman and SMT want their company to fail, they just might not be any good and not have the product to succeed. I would hope that CM sits with NJ and finds out what is wrong. We cannot doubt that NJ knows what is needed for success ( he has done it before) so he must know what is currently happening is failing.
sounds simple but not easy.0
