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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Wrexham: Saturday 26th October 2024: KO 15:00
Comments
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Slim. We had a great day. Drank in Greenwich then the Royal Oak and Fans Bar. They loved that in particular. All had food in there - the curry - which was good. They loved the Valley and the general feel of the place. We let the crowds go post match and had a couple more beers in the West car park fan thing. Had a chat with Lloyd Jones (who reckoned another three weeks). They’re a mixed bag of fans from Spurs, to Middlesbrough, Blackburn and Liverpool and we go to a few home games for these clubs through the season, making a weekend of it in Newcastle etc. This was the first Charlton trip. Overall Charlton compared favourably in terms of ‘match day experience’ - it’s just difficult to overcome the poor standard of football.AFKABartram said:What’s the honest likelihood of them returning more frequently @Valley11 ?Perhaps that’s best summed up by one of them falling asleep in the second half. That could’ve been the £7.20 Peroni’s though…13 -
There’s nothing wrong with a decent loan. (Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, Rak-Sakyi). If one or two of that quality came in during the January window it could be a game changer.golfaddick said:
Our defence is certainly better than last season (once Jones & Ramsay are back) and our central midfield has more depth so don't have on rely on loans or to many kids.king addick said:
Christ...we are definitely better than last season as a squad and results, Stevenage was shit but yet they beat the mighty Wrexham aswell. We have had so many games this year alone where we would have crumbled of played last year and not dragged a draw and nicked a win.golfaddick said:
This.blackpool72 said:
What has got us into the mess we are in is a succession of useless , clueless owners.Callumcafc said:
So we’ll have made no progress at all until the moment that it all clicks into place and we do something we haven’t managed in four years?blackpool72 said:
If you finish outside the top 6 it doesn't really matter whether you finish 10th 12th or 16th.Callumcafc said:
Expecting the goalposts to be moved here with a “we should be expecting better” or “that’s a low bar” whilst that being a completely different point & one that everyone agrees with.Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.
Now you could argue that 10th would be an improvement on 16th but in the big picture it makes little difference.
Top 6 at a minimum is what I would call an improvement.
There has to be some measurement of progress internally - if you’re on the payroll & involved in working to get this club on the up then you’ve got to cut through the noise and stop seeing things in black & white like fans will.
Working on the basis of promotion good & no promotion bad under Sandgaard is arguably what got us into such a mess, following many prior years of neglect.
Now I'm not saying that applies to our current American Billionaires but time will tell.
In the meantime I'm not really interested in what goes on behind the scenes only in what happens on the pitch and in my humble opinion we are hardly any better placed than the last couple of seasons.
Remember Andy Scott said at the start of last season to judge him on results.
We then finished in our lowest league position for 99 years.
We have only won one of our last 7 league matches.
So forgive me if I don't judge him very well.
Are we any better than last season ? At this point I'd say no. We've lost the leagues top goal scorer, a player who ended up 2nd top scorer & top assist maker even though he left in January and finally we lost our midfield "stopper". Have any been replaced adequately ? The answer is demonstrably NO and most would say we are weaker in those 3 areas.
And then to say "give Jones time, he's only had one transfer window" I would answer that with that he knew those players had left / were leaving & so should have made their replacements a priority.
Yes, we might be less easy to beat than we were last season but that wasn't a high bar to beat, and it seems that Jones made the defence his no 1 priority. Which you might say was important......but in that case lets scrap this season already if staying up is to be the ultimate goal as I for one was hoping for a lttle better than beating 16th.
I'm not sure why people think we have this god given right to smash the league. We have had a decent window ( honestly we have) but they need to gel. Birmingham shouldn't ( in theory ) be drawing at Mansfield and yet they did, results can't always go your way.
Unfortunately we have to be patient and let it click and I'm supremely confident it will click.
But up front (both out wide and attack) is worse than last season. No creativity & only Godden (and Leaburn when fully fit) know where the goal is.
We wont go down or even get drawn into a relegation scrap but we wont seriously be involved in a play off scrap either. Yes, people will drone on & on over the coming months that we are only x points off 6th and just wait until we go on a run. The truth is we just dont have enough quality to sustain a run......unless you mean a run of draws like we are currently on.
It’s another wasted season. Just mark my words.
Our recruitment has been patchy, but only Docherty, Adhadme and A Campbell have (so far) been duds. Mitchell and Ramsay in particular have been very good signings.2 -
I would say 0%.0
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I don't mind the odd loan here and there if it's a quality player that will make a real difference. It's past regimes where it's felt like " we have 5 loan slots let's use all of them" where I have the problem. Been so many just forgettable ones over the past few seasons or ones that will be remembered for all the wrong reasons.
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Let’s be honest if premier teams loan us players they will want them playing quality football, not the drab crap we play under Jones.0
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Before Saturday I knew somewhere in the region of a dozen people who were going to the match, and yesterday discovered a few more in talking to people.AFKABartram said:What’s the honest likelihood of them returning more frequently @Valley11 ?
I asked the same question and all the answers have been the same and that is “no”
Most of the guy’s all support other teams and only went for the Wrexham factor and the girls only seemed interested in seeing celebrities
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NJ is not a fan of the loan system as he sees no point in developing players for other clubs. I think we will see Dixon given his chance soon.1
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This is good news if true, poss only out for 1 or 2 more league games. Fingers crossed.Valley11 said:
Slim. We had a great day. Drank in Greenwich then the Royal Oak and Fans Bar. They loved that in particular. All had food in there - the curry - which was good. They loved the Valley and the general feel of the place. We let the crowds go post match and had a couple more beers in the West car park fan thing. Had a chat with Lloyd Jones (who reckoned another three weeks). They’re a mixed bag of fans from Spurs, to Middlesbrough, Blackburn and Liverpool and we go to a few home games for these clubs through the season, making a weekend of it in Newcastle etc. This was the first Charlton trip. Overall Charlton compared favourably in terms of ‘match day experience’ - it’s just difficult to overcome the poor standard of football.AFKABartram said:What’s the honest likelihood of them returning more frequently @Valley11 ?Perhaps that’s best summed up by one of them falling asleep in the second half. That could’ve been the £7.20 Peroni’s though…1 -
In the main, Nathan Jones most successful signings have been defenders, and a much improved centre back in Lloyd Jones, credit to him for that. So we know the managers strengths are in the players and shape he adopts to make us hard to beat, I don't think he has, or has not proved that he has the nous to understand attacking play, which probably makes his assertion that we could do better without Alfie May even more baffling.JamesSeed said:
There’s nothing wrong with a decent loan. (Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, Rak-Sakyi). If one or two of that quality came in during the January window it could be a game changer.golfaddick said:
Our defence is certainly better than last season (once Jones & Ramsay are back) and our central midfield has more depth so don't have on rely on loans or to many kids.king addick said:
Christ...we are definitely better than last season as a squad and results, Stevenage was shit but yet they beat the mighty Wrexham aswell. We have had so many games this year alone where we would have crumbled of played last year and not dragged a draw and nicked a win.golfaddick said:
This.blackpool72 said:
What has got us into the mess we are in is a succession of useless , clueless owners.Callumcafc said:
So we’ll have made no progress at all until the moment that it all clicks into place and we do something we haven’t managed in four years?blackpool72 said:
If you finish outside the top 6 it doesn't really matter whether you finish 10th 12th or 16th.Callumcafc said:
Expecting the goalposts to be moved here with a “we should be expecting better” or “that’s a low bar” whilst that being a completely different point & one that everyone agrees with.Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.
Now you could argue that 10th would be an improvement on 16th but in the big picture it makes little difference.
Top 6 at a minimum is what I would call an improvement.
There has to be some measurement of progress internally - if you’re on the payroll & involved in working to get this club on the up then you’ve got to cut through the noise and stop seeing things in black & white like fans will.
Working on the basis of promotion good & no promotion bad under Sandgaard is arguably what got us into such a mess, following many prior years of neglect.
Now I'm not saying that applies to our current American Billionaires but time will tell.
In the meantime I'm not really interested in what goes on behind the scenes only in what happens on the pitch and in my humble opinion we are hardly any better placed than the last couple of seasons.
Remember Andy Scott said at the start of last season to judge him on results.
We then finished in our lowest league position for 99 years.
We have only won one of our last 7 league matches.
So forgive me if I don't judge him very well.
Are we any better than last season ? At this point I'd say no. We've lost the leagues top goal scorer, a player who ended up 2nd top scorer & top assist maker even though he left in January and finally we lost our midfield "stopper". Have any been replaced adequately ? The answer is demonstrably NO and most would say we are weaker in those 3 areas.
And then to say "give Jones time, he's only had one transfer window" I would answer that with that he knew those players had left / were leaving & so should have made their replacements a priority.
Yes, we might be less easy to beat than we were last season but that wasn't a high bar to beat, and it seems that Jones made the defence his no 1 priority. Which you might say was important......but in that case lets scrap this season already if staying up is to be the ultimate goal as I for one was hoping for a lttle better than beating 16th.
I'm not sure why people think we have this god given right to smash the league. We have had a decent window ( honestly we have) but they need to gel. Birmingham shouldn't ( in theory ) be drawing at Mansfield and yet they did, results can't always go your way.
Unfortunately we have to be patient and let it click and I'm supremely confident it will click.
But up front (both out wide and attack) is worse than last season. No creativity & only Godden (and Leaburn when fully fit) know where the goal is.
We wont go down or even get drawn into a relegation scrap but we wont seriously be involved in a play off scrap either. Yes, people will drone on & on over the coming months that we are only x points off 6th and just wait until we go on a run. The truth is we just dont have enough quality to sustain a run......unless you mean a run of draws like we are currently on.
It’s another wasted season. Just mark my words.
Our recruitment has been patchy, but only Docherty, Adhadme and A Campbell have (so far) been duds. Mitchell and Ramsay in particular have been very good signings.1 -
I agree with you, we haven't got upgrades on either Dobbo or Alfie although (I suspect) like you I do see the value both Coventry and Godden are bringing to the team.AndyG said:
I’m not saying he wouldn’t mate as I said I’m not putting the guy down but I was making a point that we have nobody in midfield that would keep Dobson out of the team which makes the thinking behind letting him go even stranger if the replacements are not betterLeuth said:
Dobson would walk into our team, yes, but Coventry would still walk into our teamAndyG said:
I’m still not convinced by him tbh and my view is Dobson would walk into our team but I will say it must be difficult to pass it forward when you know whoever you pass it to isn’t going to control or shield the ball enough to keep possession so you know in about 5 seconds the ball is coming back and we are under pressuremsomerton said:
This the player who passes side way and backwards most of the time. When he passes forward more often than not it is to an opponent.Leuth said:Coventry is pretty much the dictionary definition of 'a Cullen', it's the hyenas who are the real enemy others who lose massively by comparison to that team
He cannot keep the ball when he has it his feet and cannot win a tackle.
I'm not sure though that we would have held onto either Dobbo or Alfie? Making the assumption they've both had a very good pay-day at their new clubs, I don't think we'd have been able to compete with this aspect and keep pay integrity with the rest of our squad and incoming players. I reckon, one way or another, both of them would have wanted away for the pay-day and good luck to them.
Both Brum and Wrexham have larger revenues than us which does put them in the position where they're able to offer better terms than anyone else in L1 and in addition they have owners who seem willing to 'enhance' their spending by converting some of their spend into equity (?). Our owners may be doing this too but not to the extent of Brum and Wrexham would be my guess.
Anyway, we are where we are as they say and we're not making too bad a job of it. I do hope we can improve one aspect of our game as and when players come back into contention or perhaps after January and that's to give me the feeling that there's enough out there for us to be in control of the game all over the pitch for decent chunks of the game. I have the feeling at the moment that we're very capable of holding our own but I would like more than that please........?2 -
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I enjoyed the drama but not much of the football. If I wasnt already stuck here I would not be coming back. We're a tough watch ☹0
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I'd like to know who these couple of good players are that people hope will come in during the January window and improve our squad so that we become really top six (ie. 1 in 4 chance of promotion) material.1
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This sounds like you're stuck inside The Valley permanently, hope they let you out soon.rananegra said:I enjoyed the drama but not much of the football. If I wasnt already stuck here I would not be coming back. We're a tough watch ☹4 -
Fear not, Andy Scott has been tracking the progress of these players for the last two seasons and when we do sign them we will have beaten Championship clubs to their signaturesNadou said:I'd like to know who these couple of good players are that people hope will come in during the January window and improve our squad so that we become really top six (ie. 1 in 4 chance of promotion) material.
We will be very proud and honored that they chose Charlton over everyone else7 -
That's the golden question. They're out there, we just need to find themNadou said:I'd like to know who these couple of good players are that people hope will come in during the January window and improve our squad so that we become really top six (ie. 1 in 4 chance of promotion) material.0 -
But are they really out there? Why, if they are any good, will they be available, unless we are prepared to offer them silly money - unlikely given our recent outlays.?fenaddick said:
That's the golden question. They're out there, we just need to find themNadou said:I'd like to know who these couple of good players are that people hope will come in during the January window and improve our squad so that we become really top six (ie. 1 in 4 chance of promotion) material.
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Yes definitely, he more or less throws it into the net.Todds_right_hook said:
I would say Mannion ogguinnessaddick said:
https://x.com/Astro1102/status/1850284856212693279Bailey said:The criticism of Mannion's recent performances need to be measured out with the loss of Lloyd Jones, that's probably true of Mitchell as well. I have looked at yesterdays first goal conceded and it flies off Coventry's head into the net, no way could Mannion come and get it and if he had got a hand to it then it would have been a wonder save. He also saved one shot down to his right in the second half and unlike his mistake at Barnsley he used the balls momentum to push it wide, he's learning.
Cov OG1 -
That's why you try to find hidden gems like Kayne Ramsay, he wasn't on anyone's radar at all and didn't seem to cost silly money. And sometimes it's about finding a player who has quality but just isn't gelling with his current team. Transfer business is always hit and miss but it is possible to find good players in JanuaryNadou said:
But are they really out there? Why, if they are any good, will they be available, unless we are prepared to offer them silly money - unlikely given our recent outlays.?fenaddick said:
That's the golden question. They're out there, we just need to find themNadou said:I'd like to know who these couple of good players are that people hope will come in during the January window and improve our squad so that we become really top six (ie. 1 in 4 chance of promotion) material.5 -
Couldn’t disagree more with this post and it’s amazing 32 likes. I’ve been there for 65 years. These are hard times . However, given the last 10 years I think we are lucky to still be playing football.ShootersHillGuru said:The league table doesn’t lie. 11th is about right. Can’t understand posters clinging onto the season as if we’ll suddenly morph into a top six team. We’re miles off yet again. No idea where this club is heading but we’re very much an established third tier football club now. Depressing and disappointing club to support. Jones was another false dawn. After 64 years of support I finally feel the passion for the club slipping away. It is what it is though I suppose.Two recent games against the ( supposedly ) best 2 teams in the league have proven that we have nothing to fear. We need a few back from injury and a bit of a run of good results and Wembley will beckon.My cup is half full. COYR.6 -
I reckon he'll be on Tuesday, if not starting then at half time. A game against other U21s would seem a sensible place to give him a proper shot.Starinnaddick said:NJ is not a fan of the loan system as he sees no point in developing players for other clubs. I think we will see Dixon given his chance soon.1 -
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I don't think that's quite true. Mannion has made a couple of mistakes recently but overall has been decent, certainly an upgrade on the last two keepers and he was only intended to be a developing backup anyway. Edwards has slipped back a bit since his injury but is a good player, Berry has popped up with some important goals and is on for a very good season if he keeps it up and Godden is averaging around a goal every two games in terms of minutes played. Docherty and ACampbell have been very disappointing so far, as has Ahadme but to say all but one of the signings have been rubbish is a way off.Covered End said:
I agree but the main problem is his signings which have been dreck apart from Mitchell.Bailey said:I have to say that ive backed the majority of managers, with the exception of Pardew, Dowie and Slade, but i am now feeling that I might add another to that little list. My defence of the last few managers is because they were unfortunately employed by lunatic Chairman but this Manager cannot lay claim to any such interference, lack of backing or lack of funds. I have watched every game this season and the football has been dire, from wing backs that don't cross the halfway line to full backs that suffer the same restrictions. A midfield that has no guile, doesnt create chances, just runs around a lot. A winger called Tyreece Campbell who, we are led to believe is an excellent front two forward. No width to the side, by design, allowing opposing full backs to join their midfield and nulify ours. This team will not push on into the top six because it has no flair. I will not get into the Alfie May argument but if you sell your top scorer on the basis that you can produce a side that is better without him, then you better produce the results that you firmly believe would happen without him. So I have to say I have run out of patience with Nathan Jones, I just don't have belief in what he is doing.
Presumably with a 5 year contract he will be given time to rebuild again?5 -
in terms of individual players the squad is stronger than last season with the glaring exceptions of Dobbo and May. All our signings except Ahadme and Ramsay had some sort of pedigree even if they appear to be duds/past it/both for us. One of those two aforementioned has turned out to be a big boost. The problem to me is the system we are playing. It is desperately dull Neanderthal football with the singular intention not to lose. We could have Messi and Ronaldo in midfield and all they would achieve is a stiff neck watching the ball fly over them backwards and forwards.2
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I believe Jones had no/very little budget to spend on recruiting players and the only way he could recruit was by selling May, which he was also ok with as he wanted a big target man up front.Bailey said:
In the main, Nathan Jones most successful signings have been defenders, and a much improved centre back in Lloyd Jones, credit to him for that. So we know the managers strengths are in the players and shape he adopts to make us hard to beat, I don't think he has, or has not proved that he has the nous to understand attacking play, which probably makes his assertion that we could do better without Alfie May even more baffling.JamesSeed said:
There’s nothing wrong with a decent loan. (Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, Rak-Sakyi). If one or two of that quality came in during the January window it could be a game changer.golfaddick said:
Our defence is certainly better than last season (once Jones & Ramsay are back) and our central midfield has more depth so don't have on rely on loans or to many kids.king addick said:
Christ...we are definitely better than last season as a squad and results, Stevenage was shit but yet they beat the mighty Wrexham aswell. We have had so many games this year alone where we would have crumbled of played last year and not dragged a draw and nicked a win.golfaddick said:
This.blackpool72 said:
What has got us into the mess we are in is a succession of useless , clueless owners.Callumcafc said:
So we’ll have made no progress at all until the moment that it all clicks into place and we do something we haven’t managed in four years?blackpool72 said:
If you finish outside the top 6 it doesn't really matter whether you finish 10th 12th or 16th.Callumcafc said:
Expecting the goalposts to be moved here with a “we should be expecting better” or “that’s a low bar” whilst that being a completely different point & one that everyone agrees with.Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.
Now you could argue that 10th would be an improvement on 16th but in the big picture it makes little difference.
Top 6 at a minimum is what I would call an improvement.
There has to be some measurement of progress internally - if you’re on the payroll & involved in working to get this club on the up then you’ve got to cut through the noise and stop seeing things in black & white like fans will.
Working on the basis of promotion good & no promotion bad under Sandgaard is arguably what got us into such a mess, following many prior years of neglect.
Now I'm not saying that applies to our current American Billionaires but time will tell.
In the meantime I'm not really interested in what goes on behind the scenes only in what happens on the pitch and in my humble opinion we are hardly any better placed than the last couple of seasons.
Remember Andy Scott said at the start of last season to judge him on results.
We then finished in our lowest league position for 99 years.
We have only won one of our last 7 league matches.
So forgive me if I don't judge him very well.
Are we any better than last season ? At this point I'd say no. We've lost the leagues top goal scorer, a player who ended up 2nd top scorer & top assist maker even though he left in January and finally we lost our midfield "stopper". Have any been replaced adequately ? The answer is demonstrably NO and most would say we are weaker in those 3 areas.
And then to say "give Jones time, he's only had one transfer window" I would answer that with that he knew those players had left / were leaving & so should have made their replacements a priority.
Yes, we might be less easy to beat than we were last season but that wasn't a high bar to beat, and it seems that Jones made the defence his no 1 priority. Which you might say was important......but in that case lets scrap this season already if staying up is to be the ultimate goal as I for one was hoping for a lttle better than beating 16th.
I'm not sure why people think we have this god given right to smash the league. We have had a decent window ( honestly we have) but they need to gel. Birmingham shouldn't ( in theory ) be drawing at Mansfield and yet they did, results can't always go your way.
Unfortunately we have to be patient and let it click and I'm supremely confident it will click.
But up front (both out wide and attack) is worse than last season. No creativity & only Godden (and Leaburn when fully fit) know where the goal is.
We wont go down or even get drawn into a relegation scrap but we wont seriously be involved in a play off scrap either. Yes, people will drone on & on over the coming months that we are only x points off 6th and just wait until we go on a run. The truth is we just dont have enough quality to sustain a run......unless you mean a run of draws like we are currently on.
It’s another wasted season. Just mark my words.
Our recruitment has been patchy, but only Docherty, Adhadme and A Campbell have (so far) been duds. Mitchell and Ramsay in particular have been very good signings.
(Don't ask me why someone thought Ahadme was that man).12 -
Very very generous to Berry, who seems to me an extreme example of 'luxury player' - will score some goals now and then but do essentially nothing elseGarrymanilow said:
I don't think that's quite true. Mannion has made a couple of mistakes recently but overall has been decent, certainly an upgrade on the last two keepers and he was only intended to be a developing backup anyway. Edwards has slipped back a bit since his injury but is a good player, Berry has popped up with some important goals and is on for a very good season if he keeps it up and Godden is averaging around a goal every two games in terms of minutes played. Docherty and ACampbell have been very disappointing so far, as has Ahadme but to say all but one of the signings have been rubbish is a way off.Covered End said:
I agree but the main problem is his signings which have been dreck apart from Mitchell.Bailey said:I have to say that ive backed the majority of managers, with the exception of Pardew, Dowie and Slade, but i am now feeling that I might add another to that little list. My defence of the last few managers is because they were unfortunately employed by lunatic Chairman but this Manager cannot lay claim to any such interference, lack of backing or lack of funds. I have watched every game this season and the football has been dire, from wing backs that don't cross the halfway line to full backs that suffer the same restrictions. A midfield that has no guile, doesnt create chances, just runs around a lot. A winger called Tyreece Campbell who, we are led to believe is an excellent front two forward. No width to the side, by design, allowing opposing full backs to join their midfield and nulify ours. This team will not push on into the top six because it has no flair. I will not get into the Alfie May argument but if you sell your top scorer on the basis that you can produce a side that is better without him, then you better produce the results that you firmly believe would happen without him. So I have to say I have run out of patience with Nathan Jones, I just don't have belief in what he is doing.
Presumably with a 5 year contract he will be given time to rebuild again?0 -
He may well consider selling May the major bollock he dropped once he is inevitably sacked (at a future unpredicted date). Also a big useless target man is about as useful as a something not very useful...Covered End said:
I believe Jones had no/very little budget to spend on recruiting players and the only way he could recruit was by selling May, which he was also ok with as he wanted a big target man up front.Bailey said:
In the main, Nathan Jones most successful signings have been defenders, and a much improved centre back in Lloyd Jones, credit to him for that. So we know the managers strengths are in the players and shape he adopts to make us hard to beat, I don't think he has, or has not proved that he has the nous to understand attacking play, which probably makes his assertion that we could do better without Alfie May even more baffling.JamesSeed said:
There’s nothing wrong with a decent loan. (Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik, Rak-Sakyi). If one or two of that quality came in during the January window it could be a game changer.golfaddick said:
Our defence is certainly better than last season (once Jones & Ramsay are back) and our central midfield has more depth so don't have on rely on loans or to many kids.king addick said:
Christ...we are definitely better than last season as a squad and results, Stevenage was shit but yet they beat the mighty Wrexham aswell. We have had so many games this year alone where we would have crumbled of played last year and not dragged a draw and nicked a win.golfaddick said:
This.blackpool72 said:
What has got us into the mess we are in is a succession of useless , clueless owners.Callumcafc said:
So we’ll have made no progress at all until the moment that it all clicks into place and we do something we haven’t managed in four years?blackpool72 said:
If you finish outside the top 6 it doesn't really matter whether you finish 10th 12th or 16th.Callumcafc said:
Expecting the goalposts to be moved here with a “we should be expecting better” or “that’s a low bar” whilst that being a completely different point & one that everyone agrees with.Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.
Now you could argue that 10th would be an improvement on 16th but in the big picture it makes little difference.
Top 6 at a minimum is what I would call an improvement.
There has to be some measurement of progress internally - if you’re on the payroll & involved in working to get this club on the up then you’ve got to cut through the noise and stop seeing things in black & white like fans will.
Working on the basis of promotion good & no promotion bad under Sandgaard is arguably what got us into such a mess, following many prior years of neglect.
Now I'm not saying that applies to our current American Billionaires but time will tell.
In the meantime I'm not really interested in what goes on behind the scenes only in what happens on the pitch and in my humble opinion we are hardly any better placed than the last couple of seasons.
Remember Andy Scott said at the start of last season to judge him on results.
We then finished in our lowest league position for 99 years.
We have only won one of our last 7 league matches.
So forgive me if I don't judge him very well.
Are we any better than last season ? At this point I'd say no. We've lost the leagues top goal scorer, a player who ended up 2nd top scorer & top assist maker even though he left in January and finally we lost our midfield "stopper". Have any been replaced adequately ? The answer is demonstrably NO and most would say we are weaker in those 3 areas.
And then to say "give Jones time, he's only had one transfer window" I would answer that with that he knew those players had left / were leaving & so should have made their replacements a priority.
Yes, we might be less easy to beat than we were last season but that wasn't a high bar to beat, and it seems that Jones made the defence his no 1 priority. Which you might say was important......but in that case lets scrap this season already if staying up is to be the ultimate goal as I for one was hoping for a lttle better than beating 16th.
I'm not sure why people think we have this god given right to smash the league. We have had a decent window ( honestly we have) but they need to gel. Birmingham shouldn't ( in theory ) be drawing at Mansfield and yet they did, results can't always go your way.
Unfortunately we have to be patient and let it click and I'm supremely confident it will click.
But up front (both out wide and attack) is worse than last season. No creativity & only Godden (and Leaburn when fully fit) know where the goal is.
We wont go down or even get drawn into a relegation scrap but we wont seriously be involved in a play off scrap either. Yes, people will drone on & on over the coming months that we are only x points off 6th and just wait until we go on a run. The truth is we just dont have enough quality to sustain a run......unless you mean a run of draws like we are currently on.
It’s another wasted season. Just mark my words.
Our recruitment has been patchy, but only Docherty, Adhadme and A Campbell have (so far) been duds. Mitchell and Ramsay in particular have been very good signings.
(Don't ask me why someone thought Ahadme was that man).0 -
I have alittle side bet on how long in to the game it is before Gillesphey does his diagonal punt forward. On Saturday it was 7 mins 58 secs. Unusually it wasn't too bad a ball.Valley11 said:The general consensus with the group of mates I was with, all non Charlton fans and Valley first timers, was we are horrible to watch. Full backs receive the ball and head down, thump it straight down the line conceding possession.. Midfielders collect and instead of launching an attack, turn and play it square or backwards.They all thought TC was our best player. Save for the dubious end product. And thought motm was that Wrexham midfielder with the slick back hair.
Personally I thought Mitchell was good. Loved how he tried to drive the team. But can’t disagree with my pals’ assessment..
We’re just not very good.
I’d stick with Jones though. I think he will get it right but it isn’t pretty…
Longest I've timed is 12 mins and that was to nobody. Best is when he's a sub.
Going to start a thread on this1 -
I think he's a good sub. He's got 4 goals in around 600 minutes, which is a top strike rate for a midfielder. He kind of reminds me of latter day Jackson in that sense, he's not going to dominate games for the 90 but he'll rescue games with goals when needed. If he keeps up this strike rate, which he almost certainly won't, he'll end up with about 12-15 goals and I don't think anyone would see that as a failed transfer. What would be nice is to regularly be more in the situation we were in against Orient when he comes on to do his thing rather than the Blackpool and Barnsley situations. In a team short of goals he's offering us a very useful skill, we just need the people around him to do more and set the stage betterLeuth said:
Very very generous to Berry, who seems to me an extreme example of 'luxury player' - will score some goals now and then but do essentially nothing elseGarrymanilow said:
I don't think that's quite true. Mannion has made a couple of mistakes recently but overall has been decent, certainly an upgrade on the last two keepers and he was only intended to be a developing backup anyway. Edwards has slipped back a bit since his injury but is a good player, Berry has popped up with some important goals and is on for a very good season if he keeps it up and Godden is averaging around a goal every two games in terms of minutes played. Docherty and ACampbell have been very disappointing so far, as has Ahadme but to say all but one of the signings have been rubbish is a way off.Covered End said:
I agree but the main problem is his signings which have been dreck apart from Mitchell.Bailey said:I have to say that ive backed the majority of managers, with the exception of Pardew, Dowie and Slade, but i am now feeling that I might add another to that little list. My defence of the last few managers is because they were unfortunately employed by lunatic Chairman but this Manager cannot lay claim to any such interference, lack of backing or lack of funds. I have watched every game this season and the football has been dire, from wing backs that don't cross the halfway line to full backs that suffer the same restrictions. A midfield that has no guile, doesnt create chances, just runs around a lot. A winger called Tyreece Campbell who, we are led to believe is an excellent front two forward. No width to the side, by design, allowing opposing full backs to join their midfield and nulify ours. This team will not push on into the top six because it has no flair. I will not get into the Alfie May argument but if you sell your top scorer on the basis that you can produce a side that is better without him, then you better produce the results that you firmly believe would happen without him. So I have to say I have run out of patience with Nathan Jones, I just don't have belief in what he is doing.
Presumably with a 5 year contract he will be given time to rebuild again?1 -
l think Berry has been more good than bad, particularly in games where we’ve got more of the ball he is useful and I’d be starting him in those types of games.Garrymanilow said:
I think he's a good sub. He's got 4 goals in around 600 minutes, which is a top strike rate for a midfielder. He kind of reminds me of latter day Jackson in that sense, he's not going to dominate games for the 90 but he'll rescue games with goals when needed. If he keeps up this strike rate, which he almost certainly won't, he'll end up with about 12-15 goals and I don't think anyone would see that as a failed transfer. What would be nice is to regularly be more in the situation we were in against Orient when he comes on to do his thing rather than the Blackpool and Barnsley situations. In a team short of goals he's offering us a very useful skill, we just need the people around him to do more and set the stage betterLeuth said:
Very very generous to Berry, who seems to me an extreme example of 'luxury player' - will score some goals now and then but do essentially nothing elseGarrymanilow said:
I don't think that's quite true. Mannion has made a couple of mistakes recently but overall has been decent, certainly an upgrade on the last two keepers and he was only intended to be a developing backup anyway. Edwards has slipped back a bit since his injury but is a good player, Berry has popped up with some important goals and is on for a very good season if he keeps it up and Godden is averaging around a goal every two games in terms of minutes played. Docherty and ACampbell have been very disappointing so far, as has Ahadme but to say all but one of the signings have been rubbish is a way off.Covered End said:
I agree but the main problem is his signings which have been dreck apart from Mitchell.Bailey said:I have to say that ive backed the majority of managers, with the exception of Pardew, Dowie and Slade, but i am now feeling that I might add another to that little list. My defence of the last few managers is because they were unfortunately employed by lunatic Chairman but this Manager cannot lay claim to any such interference, lack of backing or lack of funds. I have watched every game this season and the football has been dire, from wing backs that don't cross the halfway line to full backs that suffer the same restrictions. A midfield that has no guile, doesnt create chances, just runs around a lot. A winger called Tyreece Campbell who, we are led to believe is an excellent front two forward. No width to the side, by design, allowing opposing full backs to join their midfield and nulify ours. This team will not push on into the top six because it has no flair. I will not get into the Alfie May argument but if you sell your top scorer on the basis that you can produce a side that is better without him, then you better produce the results that you firmly believe would happen without him. So I have to say I have run out of patience with Nathan Jones, I just don't have belief in what he is doing.
Presumably with a 5 year contract he will be given time to rebuild again?He just needs legs around him which is why I think it’s difficult to start Godden and Berry in the same team, as both are lacking in that area. It’s why Kanu, Anderson and TC will continue to get plenty of starts, they have the energy to make up for playing Godden or Berry, who we need on the pitch for their quality.I think our team selection at the moment is about finding the right balance between energy and quality, particularly as Leaburn isn’t up to full speed yet. I think Leaburn coming on for Anderson at HT tilted the balance the wrong way, and if he’d come on for Godden or Berry it would have gone better4 -
Left it yesterday because it started to feel like a pile on so just coming back around to say THIS ^^king addick said:
Christ...we are definitely better than last season as a squad and results, Stevenage was shit but yet they beat the mighty Wrexham aswell. We have had so many games this year alone where we would have crumbled of played last year and not dragged a draw and nicked a win.golfaddick said:
This.blackpool72 said:
What has got us into the mess we are in is a succession of useless , clueless owners.Callumcafc said:
So we’ll have made no progress at all until the moment that it all clicks into place and we do something we haven’t managed in four years?blackpool72 said:
If you finish outside the top 6 it doesn't really matter whether you finish 10th 12th or 16th.Callumcafc said:
Expecting the goalposts to be moved here with a “we should be expecting better” or “that’s a low bar” whilst that being a completely different point & one that everyone agrees with.Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.
Now you could argue that 10th would be an improvement on 16th but in the big picture it makes little difference.
Top 6 at a minimum is what I would call an improvement.
There has to be some measurement of progress internally - if you’re on the payroll & involved in working to get this club on the up then you’ve got to cut through the noise and stop seeing things in black & white like fans will.
Working on the basis of promotion good & no promotion bad under Sandgaard is arguably what got us into such a mess, following many prior years of neglect.
Now I'm not saying that applies to our current American Billionaires but time will tell.
In the meantime I'm not really interested in what goes on behind the scenes only in what happens on the pitch and in my humble opinion we are hardly any better placed than the last couple of seasons.
Remember Andy Scott said at the start of last season to judge him on results.
We then finished in our lowest league position for 99 years.
We have only won one of our last 7 league matches.
So forgive me if I don't judge him very well.
Are we any better than last season ? At this point I'd say no. We've lost the leagues top goal scorer, a player who ended up 2nd top scorer & top assist maker even though he left in January and finally we lost our midfield "stopper". Have any been replaced adequately ? The answer is demonstrably NO and most would say we are weaker in those 3 areas.
And then to say "give Jones time, he's only had one transfer window" I would answer that with that he knew those players had left / were leaving & so should have made their replacements a priority.
Yes, we might be less easy to beat than we were last season but that wasn't a high bar to beat, and it seems that Jones made the defence his no 1 priority. Which you might say was important......but in that case lets scrap this season already if staying up is to be the ultimate goal as I for one was hoping for a lttle better than beating 16th.
I'm not sure why people think we have this god given right to smash the league. We have had a decent window ( honestly we have) but they need to gel. Birmingham shouldn't ( in theory ) be drawing at Mansfield and yet they did, results can't always go your way.
Unfortunately we have to be patient and let it click and I'm supremely confident it will click.4 -
let me know your bet, @callumcafcpaulsturgess said:Callumcafc said:
Do you think this response to what I said is balanced? Or are you being purposefully negative to try and make the posts between them balanced?paulsturgess said:
Callum I’m sorry but your opinions are so biased and and unbalanced, are you even watching our matches?Callumcafc said:Really don’t think we are that far away… people losing trust in Nathan Jones perplexes me.
On another day we find the winner against Stockport and on another night we hold on to win against Barnsley.Really small margins that would’ve changed October’s points tally from 6 to 10. Despite that, we’re still in touching distance of our ultimate end of season goals while carrying a few key injuries in the defence and not being able to secure a clear no. 1 keeper in the summer window.
There is still work to be done and I didn’t expect everything to be magically fixed in one window after three (four?) seasons of disappointment.
- you mention fine margins that could have favoured us, but seem to completely ignore the fine margins that could have just as easily/ more easily gone against us ie. Losing or drawing with Wigan, drawing with orient, losing to Rotherham, drawing with Shrewsbury, all of which were every bit as possible “on another day” as nicking a winner against Stockport.
- Barnsley one we deserved to lose that match comfortably, winning that would have been daylight robbery.
- we look clueless the moment the ball crosses the halfway line! There is no strategy for attacking or winning games and no quality to do so, and we can barely keep the ball once we attempt to progress it out of the defensive line.Looking solely at the table, we are still just about in touching distance of the play offs (notwithstanding teams with games in hand), but evidence to date ie 1 good performance all season, a paltry 6 points from our last 7 matches, and continuing failure to offer any sign of being able to control football matches for any period of time suggests something significant needs to change.The 1 window thing is an excuse, it’s perfectly possible at this level to make vast transformation at this level with 1 transfer window - the one we’ve just had was very poor and has arguably made the squad worse than it was in March or April. If what you do in one transfer window of significant overhaul is negative/ at best par, then further transfer windows are unlikely to help you.I really hope he can turn it around and we can go on a run in November.
Find it shocking that you think that the summer window was a net negative or at best par when we were where we were last season.
Are you willing to put money down that we finish worse than 16th this season? I don’t expect you are.Squad - minus May, minus Dobson. INs that have made a meaningful impact , thus far, only Mitchell and then to a lesser extent mannion and Edwards. I would say the squad would be better minus those 3 but + the lost 2. The best players this season thus far , jones, Ramsay and Coventry (I also really rate Small), were in Jones’ squad last season
no, I won’t put money down that we finish worse than 16th, but I will put money down that we don’t exceed the 1.6 pts per game Jones achieved as manager with the squad he had last season (excluding the Reading game which he didn’t count), or the 1.5 pts per game Jones achieved as manager (including the Reading game which he didn’t count). Let me know your bet.
And yes, my opinion _is_ balanced. Ie im considering the actual evidence, the “on another days” that might have gone both for us AND those that might have gone against us, our ACTUAL league position, and our ACTUAL performances across the entire season, ie the positives (Birmingham, half of Stockport, potentially Bolton) and the mediocre or bad performances (pretty much everything else).Your views seem to be based solely on hypotheses eg we’re not far off the play offs, we’re not far away from it clicking, give it another window, if only we hadn’t conceded to Barnsley, if only me auntie had bollocks etc etc.
by the way, we were in touch with the play offs this time last season under Appleton when we had an almost identical record after 13 games.I’m judging on the facts and evidence thus far. If I saw reason for excitement I’d be all over it. I hope I’m wrong and he turns it around so that Birmingham becomes the rule not the exception. But in the meantime I’m not burying my head in the sand based on blind hope.0
