POST-MATCH THREAD: Wigan Athletic v Charlton Athletic: Saturday 10th August 2024: KO 17:30

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

We also ground out a result first game of the season last season as well, didn't end too well. I don't think there's been a single season in my lifetime where we haven't ground out a result(s), and that's the problem to be honest. Not enough hammerings.

It's not though. Not really. 3 tedious, boring, paint-drying 1-0 wins are better than a 4-0 win, a 2-2 all draw and a loss (just for example.)

Portsmouth went up as Champions with very few demolition results, a lot of victories by a single goal and doing the job they needed to do.

Look at the optimism when we scored 5 in one game under Gardner... and how well that worked out in the long run.

Would it be great to see a team that blows everyone away on a regular basis, yes it would. Does that happen at league one level? No it doesn't.

I understand all the mathematics and scorelines of what is better for us in regards to the league table, and what isn't. Sorry to be blunt but I've now had SHG sarcastically remind me what league we are in, and now you're trying to breakdown how many points in 3 games is better for Charlton? Just doesn't seem necessary.

Portsmouth did go up as Champions with a lot of clean sheets, they also beat sides 12 times by scoring 3 or more goals. The season prior, Ipswich did it 15 times, and Plymouth did it 12 times. Sides who go up tend to have that in their locker as well as clean sheet wins. 

So I'd argue that teams who go up (particularly automatically), do tend to hammer a fair few sides over the course of the season and it is important for a number of reasons like confidence in the team itself, and teams fearing us. People will approach us with a different mindset if they know we like to score 1 and sit on it, rather than trying to bury teams. 

My observation from Wigan, and our pre-season, is that we don't really have that in our locker. I'm more than ok with us winning a load of games and going up playing boring football, but it doesn't seem likely. 

Garrymanilow said:

Callumcafc said:

I think / hope we might be winning northern away games by a single goal more often than others here are believing. As another poster pointed out, clean sheets and nicking a goal to win a game feels so much more sustainable than a back and forth, 2-3 3-2 or even 3-3 result like we were getting last season. 

The season we went up as champions under Powell, we won six away games 0-1. Repeat that tally and we might just be onto something…

Brentford (A), Sheff Wed (A), Exeter (A), Bournemouth (A), Oldham (A) and Carlisle (A) for anyone curious.

Almost all ridiculously stressful games as well. Squeaked past Brentford with BWP's last goal for 3 months, clung on against Weds after a free kick, accidentally scored against Exeter, Yann injury time winner that just barely crossed the line at Bournemouth, 3 red cards at Oldham and then a BWP toe poke on the line at Carlisle. We ended the season with record points but there were a lot of games where we were very fortunate to come away with the win but we forced it anyway and it allowed us to offset all the dropped points against teams we should have been beating like Bury, Rochdale, Tranmere and Oldham, all bleak 1-1s at home.

We conceded only 36 goals that season and weirdly a 9th of them came at home against Notts County in one game. A strong defence and some nasty 1-0s away at far-flung stadiums is going to be what gets us promotion more than anything else if we get there.

Opposition fans always said we “weren’t that good” but we were, because we consistently won games.

Far more effective than trying to play a pretty possession style in which is very difficult to consistently get results with. That Sheff Wed away under Garner match mentioned above is a great example.

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

cafcsinger said:

How you can decide our problem is not enough hammerings i do not know. Bizarre

Why is it bizarre? I've just explained why. It's the post match thread. It is for views, and people's perceptions. 

Mine is, that was a boring game of football, and I think over the course of the season, it won't keep happening. I'm not going to join in on an echo chamber of positivity, if that's not how I saw the game myself. 

I haven't 'decided' (not that it would matter anyway) that our issue is not scoring enough goals, just that I think it may cause us issues as the season goes on.

You might be right... IF it remains the issue. Both Jones (N and L) said that the quality on the ball wasn't there on Saturday but also that this was something that was going to be addressed. This is not the finished product, this is not what is desired by the manager.

We don't know if he will succeed in adding flair and a cutting edge but we do know he intends to try so it's too early to say it might cause issues over the season. Of course it might do.  But maybe it will all click and we'll start putting 2 or 3 past teams instead.

I like that Jones is critical, should transpire to the team. 

It is early, like I said, I've seen a lot of positives. I was impressed by Edwards and Ramsay, I was impressed by the resistance and the shape of the team, and it's nice to not look a wuss of a team like we did a lot last season. It's just stressful watching football games be that close. I'd like to see what this team can do when we go behind in a game.

Think it's unrealistic to expect us to go to Wigan, play free-flowing attacking football, and win. I enjoyed Saturday, because we never really looked like losing, and that was massive. I didn't feel worried about any of the back 6. Think it's harsh to label it boring. Wigan had a great chance with Asgard's 1 on 1, but let's be clear, Mannion didn't have to make a save (as I don't count the gentle back-header from their guy as a shot). That's a design for life for lots of points away from home, and gives grounds for plenty of optimism. Goals will come at home as the wing-backs get more opportunities to maraud forward. My only concern from the day was Anderson being part of the starting XI, as I don't feel he's strong enough yet to be the creative spark in a promotion winning side, so I wonder what the deal is with Berry not playing. 

Braziliance said:

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

cafcsinger said:

How you can decide our problem is not enough hammerings i do not know. Bizarre

Why is it bizarre? I've just explained why. It's the post match thread. It is for views, and people's perceptions. 

Mine is, that was a boring game of football, and I think over the course of the season, it won't keep happening. I'm not going to join in on an echo chamber of positivity, if that's not how I saw the game myself. 

I haven't 'decided' (not that it would matter anyway) that our issue is not scoring enough goals, just that I think it may cause us issues as the season goes on.

You might be right... IF it remains the issue. Both Jones (N and L) said that the quality on the ball wasn't there on Saturday but also that this was something that was going to be addressed. This is not the finished product, this is not what is desired by the manager.

We don't know if he will succeed in adding flair and a cutting edge but we do know he intends to try so it's too early to say it might cause issues over the season. Of course it might do.  But maybe it will all click and we'll start putting 2 or 3 past teams instead.

I like that Jones is critical, should transpire to the team. 

It is early, like I said, I've seen a lot of positives. I was impressed by Edwards and Ramsay, I was impressed by the resistance and the shape of the team, and it's nice to not look a wuss of a team like we did a lot last season. It's just stressful watching football games be that close. I'd like to see what this team can do when we go behind in a game.

I can see the point and honestly it's a fair one but my main positive from the game/performance was that when before we'd be making bonehead errors to give chances away, we kept it very solid and a few mistakes were made up for by a textbook tackle and a header that was arguably even better.

Attacking play is more likely to improve over time as fitness/partnerships improve, so starting with a solid (albeit boring) display early on is fine.

Going behind will be a big test of the players and it will also be interesting to see if Jones goes for broke in those situations but I am not going to be too stressed by a one off performance right at the beginning of the season.

JamesSeed said:

All I care about this season is getting promotion, and I genuinely don’t care how we do it. 

But I agree it was a boring game. 

In past seasons we’ve had players who create moments that take your mind off poor performances. Players like Ricky Holmes, Mavididi (briefly), Conor Gallagher, CBT and Rak Sakyi. 

Let hope the absence of players who can transform a match won’t come back to bite us on the proverbials.

I don't think we are completely lacking those. TC has potential there, maybe Dixon will too, Leaburn when fit can get goals out of basically nothing on his day, hopefully Berry will have some nous and experience to come up with moments of magic.

We didn't see it last time but I would hope we might see a few transformative players this season.

JamesSeed said:

All I care about this season is getting promotion, and I genuinely don’t care how we do it. 

But I agree it was a boring game. 

In past seasons we’ve had players who create moments that take your mind off poor performances. Players like Ricky Holmes, Mavididi (briefly), Conor Gallagher, CBT and Rak Sakyi. 

Let hope the absence of players who can transform a match won’t come back to bite us on the proverbials.

Same here but Saturday's performance is inconclusive in terms of what it is telling us in terms of the season. To be fair, most performances would be in isolation. We need a few more games to see the patterns. The positive is our defensive game last season was poor and it already looks better. Will we score enough goals? It is still difficult to say yet.

We have Leaburn to come in too. But question marks there to be fair.

Braziliance said:

Garrymanilow said:

Braziliance said:

thenewbie said:

Braziliance said:

We also ground out a result first game of the season last season as well, didn't end too well. I don't think there's been a single season in my lifetime where we haven't ground out a result(s), and that's the problem to be honest. Not enough hammerings.

It's not though. Not really. 3 tedious, boring, paint-drying 1-0 wins are better than a 4-0 win, a 2-2 all draw and a loss (just for example.)

Portsmouth went up as Champions with very few demolition results, a lot of victories by a single goal and doing the job they needed to do.

Look at the optimism when we scored 5 in one game under Gardner... and how well that worked out in the long run.

Would it be great to see a team that blows everyone away on a regular basis, yes it would. Does that happen at league one level? No it doesn't.

I understand all the mathematics and scorelines of what is better for us in regards to the league table, and what isn't. Sorry to be blunt but I've now had SHG sarcastically remind me what league we are in, and now you're trying to breakdown how many points in 3 games is better for Charlton? Just doesn't seem necessary.

Portsmouth did go up as Champions with a lot of clean sheets, they also beat sides 12 times by scoring 3 or more goals. The season prior, Ipswich did it 15 times, and Plymouth did it 12 times. Sides who go up tend to have that in their locker as well as clean sheet wins. 

So I'd argue that teams who go up (particularly automatically), do tend to hammer a fair few sides over the course of the season and it is important for a number of reasons like confidence in the team itself, and teams fearing us. People will approach us with a different mindset if they know we like to score 1 and sit on it, rather than trying to bury teams. 

My observation from Wigan, and our pre-season, is that we don't really have that in our locker. I'm more than ok with us winning a load of games and going up playing boring football, but it doesn't seem likely. 

I don't know why you always get so tetchy when you post an opinion and people don't agree with it. It's not condescending to be disagreed with, I don't think anyone has been rude to you there. The problem is you're creating a full season data set in your head off one game against Wigan. Pompey ground out six 1-0 wins last season, four of them away from home. They also got six 0-0s, five of them away from home and one of them against us of all people. They might have scored 3 goals in games but those matches weren't hammerings, I'd say they had three across the season; a 4-0 and two 4-1s. Plenty of dull results there for them but they didn't lose those games and that's what they needed to do.

Ipswich loved a 1-1 in 22/23 much like we did in 11/12. They drew 1-1 SEVEN times, but no-one would say over the course of their season they didn't have firepower because they had plenty of 4-0s and one 6-0 we don't talk about. Plymouth had six 1-0 wins that same season. Oh, and those three teams' opening day results? 1-1, 1-1, 1-0.

In his time at Luton Nathan Jones got plenty of 1-0 wins, his teams also would randomly win 7-1 or 7-0. You're writing off an awful lot of possibilities off the back of one opening game away from home, plenty of football left for us to kick a few teams.

I am not irate, I'm posting views on a post match thread. I personally find it condescending to be reminded of what league we are in, or how points are awarded. Of course it's probably not serious, and I don't believe Newbie meant any harm in their post, but generally speaking, I don't like being the brunt of jokes, especially when it's not something you'll find me doing. If that comes across like I'm irate, so be it. 

Again, I'm not creating a full season of data of anything. My original post is meaningless and honestly, I already regret posting it. I am not stating the season is over, that anything is definite. I'm simply saying it was a bad game of football to watch, and I hope it picks up. I'll take it if we go up playing like that, on the other hand, it's gonna be another forgetful season if we don't manage it. 

That's it. 

You're not being reminded of how many points there are in a game, someone is putting across that there's more value in grinding out miserable wins than throwing caution to the wind Peterborough style and chasing a big win with a loss and a draw. That's not condescending, that's someone adding to the conversation, you just appear to take any debating of your point as a personal attack for some reason. You're not the butt of any joke there.

What you said was 'So I'd argue that teams who go up (particularly automatically), do tend to hammer a fair few sides over the course of the season...My observation from Wigan, and our pre-season, is that we don't really have that in our locker' so you have extrapolated quite a lot from the one league game and some fitness run-outs where we'd change the entire team at half time. I'm just offering you some data that the teams who go up automatically grind out a pretty bleak number of 0-0s, 1-0s and 1-1s off uninspiring starts to get where they're going and Nathan Jones has been one of them in the past. It's a positive thing. I do agree that Jones has created a rod for his back; he's sold May and pivoted to a percentages style of football so we need to be getting results or he'll be afforded far less grace than someone who has us dropping points all over but has put some exciting football on show. I'm happy to be bored though, it's much better than being miserable or just apathetic like I have been with some of the last few managers. Let's just cross our fingers that the results keep coming. 

Wigan are a decent side, to not let him have a shot on target is superb 

I think some people have forgotten over the summer some of the absolute dross we put ourselves through last season. Yes it was a shit game but people going way over the top.

eaststandmike said:

PopIcon said: in

We scraped a 1 nill win in the opening fixture last season. I vaguely remember having more enthusiasm after that match than i do today.

A midfield of Coventry, Docherty and Anderson are going to create very little. I struggle to see where goals are going to come from.

I am happy we scraped a win however I totally agree with you re lack of creativity in midfield, we could have played until midnight and not scored however a defensive mix up solved the problem for us

Dont like to remind people I've been banging on for months about our lack of creativity. I had started to get excited in late June / early July when we started to make some half decent signings and I've been waiting & waiting for that elusive player to be unveiled. But I do not think its going to happen as it seems our gameplan is to nab the ball off their defenders or win it deep & let the defenders give it to the wingbacks. 

I really hope I'm proved to be wrong but I just dont think we have enough in midfield to create enough goals. Our defence looks stronger than last season but our attacking threat (without May and CBT) is weaker.

I predicted we'll finish 7th to 12th. So better than last season but not promotion material. 

I would hate to have had to read this forum if we had lost 😭👎