POST-MATCH THREAD: Wigan Athletic v Charlton Athletic: Saturday 10th August 2024: KO 17:30

Chunes

I think it would have been asking a lot to go up there, dominate, play well and return with three points. Wigan will be absolutely gutted to lose their first home game, their manager looks bereft in his interview. They'd have been going all out to get a result. I feel like we won in the only way we could. 

eaststandmike

PopIcon said: in

We scraped a 1 nill win in the opening fixture last season. I vaguely remember having more enthusiasm after that match than i do today.

A midfield of Coventry, Docherty and Anderson are going to create very little. I struggle to see where goals are going to come from.

I am happy we scraped a win however I totally agree with you re lack of creativity in midfield, we could have played until midnight and not scored however a defensive mix up solved the problem for us

NabySarr

AFKABartram said:

Reading this thread I seem to be a lot less positive (note, not negative) than others.

I thought it was largely a god-awful, nondescript game with a complete absence of creativity or quality on display. It was only the left winger who come on 2nd half for Wigan that seemed to add anything in that regard and generally I felt if anyone would Nick a goal they’d be more likely.

Fortunately there was a defensive error that led to our goal. Jones produced a fantastic finish you wouldn’t expect from a centre half. One moment effectively dictated the game and had that mistake and strike been at the other end the consensus on here on the performance would have been completely different and the performance marks halved.

Thankfully, it wasn’t though. Three points is ultimately all that matters and we got them. We have to get out of this league, the football is awful. I don’t know whether it’s playing in half empty stadiums that doesn’t help but I watched some of Blackburn v Derby and the gulf to the quality of football, pace of game to the Championship now seems huge. 

Will be interesting to see how our approach is at home when the emphasis will be more on us to dictate attacking play as opposed to keeping it right away from home and then try to nick something. 

Hopefully the opening win takes pressure off and acts as a platform to improve. 

I think the positivity is mainly that defensively we were so much stronger than we have been for years. In terms of midfield and attack there was a real lack of fluency and quality, but these are the kind of things that are likely to pick up the more games we play and players play together.

I’d much rather be solid defensively and need to work on the attack than what we have had in recent years where the attack is fine but we ship goals for fun 

Garrymanilow

AFKABartram said:

Reading this thread I seem to be a lot less positive (note, not negative) than others.

I thought it was largely a god-awful, nondescript game with a complete absence of creativity or quality on display. It was only the left winger who come on 2nd half for Wigan that seemed to add anything in that regard and generally I felt if anyone would Nick a goal they’d be more likely.

Fortunately there was a defensive error that led to our goal. Jones produced a fantastic finish you wouldn’t expect from a centre half. One moment effectively dictated the game and had that mistake and strike been at the other end the consensus on here on the performance would have been completely different and the performance marks halved.

Thankfully, it wasn’t though. Three points is ultimately all that matters and we got them. We have to get out of this league, the football is awful. I don’t know whether it’s playing in half empty stadiums that doesn’t help but I watched some of Blackburn v Derby and the gulf to the quality of football, pace of game to the Championship now seems huge. 

Will be interesting to see how our approach is at home when the emphasis will be more on us to dictate attacking play as opposed to keeping it right away from home and then try to nick something. 

Hopefully the opening win takes pressure off and acts as a platform to improve. 

I think you're right in terms of people reacting differently because they always will but it's also true of most games. We set out to not concede and frustrate a pass and move side and we did that. Wigan could still be out there now and Josh Edwards would somehow still be clearing headers away.

One thing that I don't think is given enough credit is that after a certain point we did change things up to be more attacking, it just worked so quickly that we switched it off again. Tennai came on and immediately posted himself right up the pitch, basically level with the strikers, so we could exploit the space Jordan Jones was leaving and create overloads. This rattled them straight away and we had Chuks, Kanu, Docherty and Tennai occupying defenders in that area which led to them panicking and booting Tennai for a free kick on the edge of their box. The free kick came back and Tennai put it back in while our defenders were still up and that's where our goal came from. This was 7 minutes after Tennai came on and some of that was faff and the ref booking their player, the ball was probably only in play for a few minutes before we scored. After that we backed ourselves to keep them out and that was enough, not worth risking anything else so Tennai dropped back and we just kept them at arm's length.

What I'm saying is you can argue that a goal going the other way would have changed things, but to do that you have to ignore that the plan was to nullify their attack, which we did, use the ball intelligently when we have it and exploit counter attacks which we didn't do very well, and then switch to a more aggressive style if the win is there to be taken, which we did very well and so briefly. I think if Lloyd had sent that shot into space like a normal person we would have created more opportunities after with our aggressive wingback play, we just didn't need to.

NabySarr

People need to stop thinking about our midfield as creating chances in the traditional way, e.g a through ball or cross etc 

Anderson and Docherty will create chances by winning the ball back in good areas. We scored goals from pre-season doing exactly that. We will set traps and pounce at the right moment. We didn’t see much of it on Saturday as Wigan are probably one of the best teams in the league at playing it out from the back, but even then we forced their keeper to kick it out of play a few times. 

Berry is hopefully going to be a bit more traditionally creative, with that bit of extra quality. 

As for Coventry, his job isn’t really to create, but he still made some nice passes from deep, in particular one in behind to Ramsay that led to a half chance 

thenewbie

Really it comes down to the fact that it was a boring, low quality game that we won instead of a boring low quality game that we lost - as we have plenty of those in recent memory.

If we're still playing like this a month from now, at home against a team in bad form themselves, then there will be more complaints (including mine.)

But ultimately it comes down to the job got done, in fairly professional fashion and without any of the brain dead slip ups that often cost us. Jones and the players all seem to acknowledge the quality on the ball wasn't there but also that this is something we need (and want) to improve.

It wasn't a great game or performance but it's definitely good to see we can win ugly if that is what it takes.

Croydon

NabySarr said:

People need to stop thinking about our midfield as creating chances in the traditional way, e.g a through ball or cross etc 

Anderson and Docherty will create chances by winning the ball back in good areas. We scored goals from pre-season doing exactly that. We will set traps and pounce at the right moment. We didn’t see much of it on Saturday as Wigan are probably one of the best teams in the league at playing it out from the back, but even then we forced their keeper to kick it out of play a few times. 

Berry is hopefully going to be a bit more traditionally creative, with that bit of extra quality. 

As for Coventry, his job isn’t really to create, but he still made some nice passes from deep, in particular one in behind to Ramsay that led to a half chance 

Need more movement from the two up top if that's how we plan to score goals. We won the ball back a few times in advanced positions and the 2 strikers just stood still.

Garrymanilow

Croydon said:

NabySarr said:

People need to stop thinking about our midfield as creating chances in the traditional way, e.g a through ball or cross etc 

Anderson and Docherty will create chances by winning the ball back in good areas. We scored goals from pre-season doing exactly that. We will set traps and pounce at the right moment. We didn’t see much of it on Saturday as Wigan are probably one of the best teams in the league at playing it out from the back, but even then we forced their keeper to kick it out of play a few times. 

Berry is hopefully going to be a bit more traditionally creative, with that bit of extra quality. 

As for Coventry, his job isn’t really to create, but he still made some nice passes from deep, in particular one in behind to Ramsay that led to a half chance 

Need more movement from the two up top if that's how we plan to score goals. We won the ball back a few times in advanced positions and the 2 strikers just stood still.

Tyreece looked a bit lost as Wigan didn't wilt as quickly under the press as Pompey did so his space was more limited. He ran into the channels but tended to get out there and stay there like a winger instead of timing his movements to drag defenders away from where they want to be like Kanu or Godden would have. There will be games where we're dominant and Tyreece has a field day but when teams are more organised I think we'll see smarter movement from Godden, with TC hopefully learning his new position as the season goes on.

fenaddick

Just catching up on Charlton Live and Louis Mendez mentioned that TC was playing through illness on Saturday, might explain why he wasn't quite as effective as hoped

YannTheMann

fenaddick said:

Just catching up on Charlton Live and Louis Mendez mentioned that TC was playing through illness on Saturday, might explain why he wasn't quite as effective as hoped

Contextualises his performance a bit more but makes me wonder why he was preferred over DK, I felt DK would have had a lot more joy than TC ever did if he started, sure Nath has his reasons though! 

bobmunro

There will always be a mix of positivity and negativity - a fundamental part of the human condition. Winning, in what was probably the most soulless ground I've ever been to, is all that matters, and I would be very happy if we are crowned the most boring team in the history of the third division, devoid of any creativity, if we get out of this pub league.

I hope the Charlton faithful on the train back to Euston had a pleasant trip - certainly in good voice as we got off at Crewe

ross1

We will play like England, poor play from start but win. At the end of the season we will start playing exciting football then lose promotion  🥴

Yann897

eaststandmike said:

PopIcon said: in

We scraped a 1 nill win in the opening fixture last season. I vaguely remember having more enthusiasm after that match than i do today.

A midfield of Coventry, Docherty and Anderson are going to create very little. I struggle to see where goals are going to come from.

I am happy we scraped a win however I totally agree with you re lack of creativity in midfield, we could have played until midnight and not scored however a defensive mix up solved the problem for us

Campbell was unlucky with his chance. I thought we looked solid and like the shape of the midfield.

mendonca

fenaddick said:

Just catching up on Charlton Live and Louis Mendez mentioned that TC was playing through illness on Saturday, might explain why he wasn't quite as effective as hoped

I doubt he would have started ahead of Kanu if he was ill. 

Learning a new position in pre-season is very different to competitive games. For now, I'd like TC to be a 20/30 minute impact sub rather than starter. It might suit his style more and he could be provided with specific instructions when coming on. 

fenaddick

mendonca said:

fenaddick said:

Just catching up on Charlton Live and Louis Mendez mentioned that TC was playing through illness on Saturday, might explain why he wasn't quite as effective as hoped

I doubt he would have started ahead of Kanu if he was ill. 

Learning a new position in pre-season is very different to competitive games. For now, I'd like TC to be a 20/30 minute impact sub rather than starter. It might suit his style more and he could be provided with specific instructions when coming on. 

NJ said it himself later in the pod, obviously we don't know how ill but no reason to doubt him.

NabySarr

Yann897 said:

eaststandmike said:

PopIcon said: in

We scraped a 1 nill win in the opening fixture last season. I vaguely remember having more enthusiasm after that match than i do today.

A midfield of Coventry, Docherty and Anderson are going to create very little. I struggle to see where goals are going to come from.

I am happy we scraped a win however I totally agree with you re lack of creativity in midfield, we could have played until midnight and not scored however a defensive mix up solved the problem for us

Campbell was unlucky with his chance. I thought we looked solid and like the shape of the midfield.

I was a bit unsure on the midfield shape. Docherty was playing the furthest forward which I’m not sure suits him. I’d probably have preferred Anderson there as he’s so good at pressing from the front and I think still not quite ready for that deeper role 

Braziliance

Watched it on telly, found it really boring, was delighted we scored, but if we played that game 10 times, we probably don't win it nine times out of ten if you catch my drift. We limited their chances, but we also had limited chances, and it was a game that lacked real quality. 

No complaints if this style gets us promoted, but it's going to be a long old season if that's the football being produced, and the end result isn't promotion. That said, away win, clean sheet and an opening day win. It doesn't get much better than that objectively. 

On a final note, I keep saying people say 'a typical away performance' etc. Why is our playstyle relevant to when we travel away in league 1? No disrespect to Wigan, as I don't mind then, but the DW Stadium isn't exactly a cauldron, and they don't have a reputation for being a class side at home. The 'away performance' is best suited when you go to grounds like Anfield, the Bernabéu etc. If we do have a style of play, and a way Nathan Jones expects us to play, it shouldn't be halted by playing away in any league 1 ground. At least in my opinion anyway. I'd like to see us being playing good football home and away.

JoshrewCAFC

I sort of agree with both sides of the argument. It's far too early to get overly optimistic or pessimistic, regardless of the result.

BUT, football is a game of moments. We are the team that had that moment and took it. You can't criticise the lads when they're walking away with 3 points away to a decent team.

ShootersHillGuru

Braziliance said:

Watched it on telly, found it really boring, was delighted we scored, but if we played that game 10 times, we probably don't win it nine times out of ten if you catch my drift. We limited their chances, but we also had limited chances, and it was a game that lacked real quality. 

No complaints if this style gets us promoted, but it's going to be a long old season if that's the football being produced, and the end result isn't promotion. That said, away win, clean sheet and an opening day win. It doesn't get much better than that objectively. 

On a final note, I keep saying people say 'a typical away performance' etc. Why is our playstyle relevant to when we travel away in league 1? No disrespect to Wigan, as I don't mind then, but the DW Stadium isn't exactly a cauldron, and they don't have a reputation for being a class side at home. The 'away performance' is best suited when you go to grounds like Anfield, the Bernabéu etc. If we do have a style of play, and a way Nathan Jones expects us to play, it shouldn't be halted by playing away in any league 1 ground. At least in my opinion anyway. I'd like to see us being playing good football home and away.

In case you havnt noticed we’re also a league one team and have been for a while. What’s more we havnt been a very good one either. Of course we’ll have a tactic away from home. We aren’t going to blow teams out of the water every week.

fenaddick

Braziliance said:

Watched it on telly, found it really boring, was delighted we scored, but if we played that game 10 times, we probably don't win it nine times out of ten if you catch my drift. We limited their chances, but we also had limited chances, and it was a game that lacked real quality. 

No complaints if this style gets us promoted, but it's going to be a long old season if that's the football being produced, and the end result isn't promotion. That said, away win, clean sheet and an opening day win. It doesn't get much better than that objectively. 

On a final note, I keep saying people say 'a typical away performance' etc. Why is our playstyle relevant to when we travel away in league 1? No disrespect to Wigan, as I don't mind then, but the DW Stadium isn't exactly a cauldron, and they don't have a reputation for being a class side at home. The 'away performance' is best suited when you go to grounds like Anfield, the Bernabéu etc. If we do have a style of play, and a way Nathan Jones expects us to play, it shouldn't be halted by playing away in any league 1 ground. At least in my opinion anyway. I'd like to see us being playing good football home and away.

They were the 7th best home team in the league last year, winning 13 of their games (Bolton, Pompey & Derby top 3 winning 15). If you can beat 7 out of the top 10 home teams away from home then your promotion chances are done a world of good. 

I agree that we should be playing better football but it's the first game of the season and we ground out a result. For years we haven't been the type to grind out a result, I think that's why there's so much optimism.

Callumcafc

I think / hope we might be winning northern away games by a single goal more often than others here are believing. As another poster pointed out, clean sheets and nicking a goal to win a game feels so much more sustainable than a back and forth, 2-3 3-2 or even 3-3 result like we were getting last season. 

The season we went up as champions under Powell, we won six away games 0-1. Repeat that tally and we might just be onto something…

Brentford (A), Sheff Wed (A), Exeter (A), Bournemouth (A), Oldham (A) and Carlisle (A) for anyone curious.

jams

Way too early to draw conclusions but if I were to, I would say that our games are likely to be quite low scoring with a robust defence first approach 

Gisappointed

I think the argument about needing a 10 has been done to death and obviously not in NJ plans.  Less so the option of 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 if behind. Regardless of either, I'd buy Thelo Aasgaard and shoehorn him somewhere in the side. He is a talent.

jackmasterflash

.

Braziliance

ShootersHillGuru said:

Braziliance said:

Watched it on telly, found it really boring, was delighted we scored, but if we played that game 10 times, we probably don't win it nine times out of ten if you catch my drift. We limited their chances, but we also had limited chances, and it was a game that lacked real quality. 

No complaints if this style gets us promoted, but it's going to be a long old season if that's the football being produced, and the end result isn't promotion. That said, away win, clean sheet and an opening day win. It doesn't get much better than that objectively. 

On a final note, I keep saying people say 'a typical away performance' etc. Why is our playstyle relevant to when we travel away in league 1? No disrespect to Wigan, as I don't mind then, but the DW Stadium isn't exactly a cauldron, and they don't have a reputation for being a class side at home. The 'away performance' is best suited when you go to grounds like Anfield, the Bernabéu etc. If we do have a style of play, and a way Nathan Jones expects us to play, it shouldn't be halted by playing away in any league 1 ground. At least in my opinion anyway. I'd like to see us being playing good football home and away.

In case you havnt noticed we’re also a league one team and have been for a while. What’s more we havnt been a very good one either. Of course we’ll have a tactic away from home. We aren’t going to blow teams out of the water every week.

No one needs to remind me, that we are a league 1 team 😂

I don't see why we can't, plenty of teams have managed it in this division, ourselves included. Like I said, it's just an expectation on my part and a bit of an observation.

fenaddick said:

Braziliance said:

Watched it on telly, found it really boring, was delighted we scored, but if we played that game 10 times, we probably don't win it nine times out of ten if you catch my drift. We limited their chances, but we also had limited chances, and it was a game that lacked real quality. 

No complaints if this style gets us promoted, but it's going to be a long old season if that's the football being produced, and the end result isn't promotion. That said, away win, clean sheet and an opening day win. It doesn't get much better than that objectively. 

On a final note, I keep saying people say 'a typical away performance' etc. Why is our playstyle relevant to when we travel away in league 1? No disrespect to Wigan, as I don't mind then, but the DW Stadium isn't exactly a cauldron, and they don't have a reputation for being a class side at home. The 'away performance' is best suited when you go to grounds like Anfield, the Bernabéu etc. If we do have a style of play, and a way Nathan Jones expects us to play, it shouldn't be halted by playing away in any league 1 ground. At least in my opinion anyway. I'd like to see us being playing good football home and away.

They were the 7th best home team in the league last year, winning 13 of their games (Bolton, Pompey & Derby top 3 winning 15). If you can beat 7 out of the top 10 home teams away from home then your promotion chances are done a world of good. 

I agree that we should be playing better football but it's the first game of the season and we ground out a result. For years we haven't been the type to grind out a result, I think that's why there's so much optimism.

Just shows how poor this league is that they were 7th home record when they were one of our only 3 Away wins last season and also not a particularly decent side.

We also ground out a result first game of the season last season as well, didn't end too well. I don't think there's been a single season in my lifetime where we haven't ground out a result(s), and that's the problem to be honest. Not enough hammerings.

Like I said, objectively it was a good win, but it was a proper boring watch. I hope it improves as the season goes on.

Chunes

It's a luxury to be able to complain about the manner of winning a game. 

ElliotCAFC

I remember when we played Sheffield Wednesday away under Ben Garner and played some lovely football, kept possession well, and created a couple of chances. The Sheffield Wednesday fans were waxing lyrical at how we played compared to their hoof-ball tactics and thought we'd be right up there come the end of the season. 

We lost that game 1-0, and they got promoted at the end of the season - I'll take 45 more scrappy 1-0 wins. 

NorthbyEast

Callumcafc said:

I think / hope we might be winning northern away games by a single goal more often than others here are believing. As another poster pointed out, clean sheets and nicking a goal to win a game feels so much more sustainable than a back and forth, 2-3 3-2 or even 3-3 result like we were getting last season. 

The season we went up as champions under Powell, we won six away games 0-1. Repeat that tally and we might just be onto something…

Brentford (A), Sheff Wed (A), Exeter (A), Bournemouth (A), Oldham (A) and Carlisle (A) for anyone curious.

My thoughts exactly, it looked like a Powell performance. Ugly but effective.

Garrymanilow

Callumcafc said:

I think / hope we might be winning northern away games by a single goal more often than others here are believing. As another poster pointed out, clean sheets and nicking a goal to win a game feels so much more sustainable than a back and forth, 2-3 3-2 or even 3-3 result like we were getting last season. 

The season we went up as champions under Powell, we won six away games 0-1. Repeat that tally and we might just be onto something…

Brentford (A), Sheff Wed (A), Exeter (A), Bournemouth (A), Oldham (A) and Carlisle (A) for anyone curious.

Almost all ridiculously stressful games as well. Squeaked past Brentford with BWP's last goal for 3 months, clung on against Weds after a free kick, accidentally scored against Exeter, Yann injury time winner that just barely crossed the line at Bournemouth, 3 red cards at Oldham and then a BWP toe poke on the line at Carlisle. We ended the season with record points but there were a lot of games where we were very fortunate to come away with the win but we forced it anyway and it allowed us to offset all the dropped points against teams we should have been beating like Bury, Rochdale, Tranmere and Oldham, all bleak 1-1s at home.

We conceded only 36 goals that season and weirdly a 9th of them came at home against Notts County in one game. A strong defence and some nasty 1-0s away at far-flung stadiums is going to be what gets us promotion more than anything else if we get there.

thenewbie

Braziliance said:

We also ground out a result first game of the season last season as well, didn't end too well. I don't think there's been a single season in my lifetime where we haven't ground out a result(s), and that's the problem to be honest. Not enough hammerings.

It's not though. Not really. 3 tedious, boring, paint-drying 1-0 wins are better than a 4-0 win, a 2-2 all draw and a loss (just for example.)

Portsmouth went up as Champions with very few demolition results, a lot of victories by a single goal and doing the job they needed to do.

Look at the optimism when we scored 5 in one game under Gardner... and how well that worked out in the long run.

Would it be great to see a team that blows everyone away on a regular basis, yes it would. Does that happen at league one level? No it doesn't.