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MATCH THREAD (+POST p23): Charlton Athl v Cray Valley PM: FA Cup 🏆1st Rd: Sun 5 Nov 2023 | KO 17:30
Comments
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I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.5 -
We need to stop making excuses and normalising performances like that. It's way, way below the standard we should accept at this club and this attitude of acceptance that's creeping in could be just as detrimental as the performance itself.Garrymanilow said:I'm genuinely not sure if some of you realise we didn't lose yesterday. Bad day but we gifted them a goal and they got a draw out of it. Plenty of opportunity to right the wrong and move on with our lives
We should be setting the bar high, not lowering it to justify a lackluster performance against a team one level above county football.
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To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out.If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right.You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil.The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.33 -
We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.0 -
Thankyou Airman, that's more like the measured comments I expect from you. I'm not expecting you to give me answers to the problems, and I look around at other similar size clubs in this division and think that their supporters are just as frustrated, and their clubs bank balance is leaking just as bad as Charlton's but I don't think the reserves drawing with Cray is a reflection of the club or the talent that is in this club. The kids give me hope and yes I agree, the owners will cash in on at least one, what owner of Charlton hasn't, but in my opinion there is enough coming through to give us some sort of a chance. As for the players who appeared yesterday, I was only disappointed only with Ness, the rest I care little about as they won't be here by the seasons end.Airman Brown said:
To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out.If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right.You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil.The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.1 -
No, that's all you adding that in I'm afraid. I'm not putting a shine on anything, I'm just reminding people that we're still in the stupid competition. The fatalistic way people are talking about this is like we've lost. We didn't. We were rubbish, it was bad and I'll never get those minutes back but the players now have an opportunity to win the tie, put it behind them and then hopefully do something against Gillingham for once and we could even cross our fingers for a decent third round tie. I mean, we could also go to Cray Valley and make it worse but everyone can wallow in a draw like it's a loss or remember that there's still every opportunity that it doesn't have to be a total disasterLargeAddick said:
Sorry but that was a pathetic display and there should be no attempt to put any shine on it at all. It was embarrassing. You make it sound like getting a draw out of it was acceptable.Garrymanilow said:I'm genuinely not sure if some of you realise we didn't lose yesterday. Bad day but we gifted them a goal and they got a draw out of it. Plenty of opportunity to right the wrong and move on with our lives
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And the buyer is who ?ElfsborgAddick said:
We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.1 -
We’ve done well in parts of games this season and I’ve enjoyed watching the forwards at home recently, just as there were some enjoyable games last season - Ipswich 4-4, Brighton, Shrewsbury 6-0. I was quite angry last night.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative than Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.
It ought to be the players and manager who are humiliated by their inability to beat a team five divisions lower, live on national TV, but we all know it’s actually the fans.Bloody well show some respect, to the opposition, the competition and the people who pay to watch week in, week out. It’s the FA Cup and such results are what still makes it great, far more so than than the now usually tedious later stages.But remember when they trot out the platitudes about the people who travelled to Lincoln and Wigan that none of it is meant. It can’t be, because when it came to Cray Valley and humiliating the fans who live and breathe Charlton, the club just couldn’t be bothered.25 -
The team who appeared couldn't be bothered Airman, the club ? that's actually us, that's why we feel let down more than anyone.Airman Brown said:
We’ve done well in parts of games this season and I’ve enjoyed watching the forwards at home recently, just as there were some enjoyable games last season - Ipswich 4-4, Brighton, Shrewsbury 6-0. I was quite angry last night.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative than Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.
It ought to be the players and manager who are humiliated by their inability to beat a team five divisions lower, live on national TV, but we all know it’s actually the fans.Bloody well show some respect, to the opposition, the competition and the people who pay to watch week in, week out. It’s the FA Cup and such results are what still makes it great, far more so than than the now usually tedious later stages.But remember when they trot out the platitudes about the people who travelled to Lincoln and Wigan that none of it is meant. It can’t be, because when it came to Cray Valley and humiliating the fans who live and breathe Charlton, the club just couldn’t be bothered.1 -
maybe fun for you but its very boring correcting people like you - you can only go to 5 games - why would you get a season ticket? please read what i said - if u can be bothered - and try to understand it before highlighting something and making yourself look stupid would be my adviceSporadicAddick said:
I know, but it's fun highlighting it...DOUCHER said:
ZzzzzzSporadicAddick said:
Excellent - does that mean that I no longer need to buy a season ticket (even if I can only go to about 5 home games a year) to be regarded as a proper fan, or is it just an exemption for you in relation to cup games (unless we get to the quarter final)?DOUCHER said:
Nope - I’ve done my time with these games and won’t go to them any more - they r a piss take and it’s how football is now - I won’t go and then moan about it, I just don’t goSporadicAddick said:
Even if you didn't want to go, surely you should have bought a ticket - otherwise how can you be a proper fan?DOUCHER said:Glad I didn’t go or watch it on tv - I’m done with reserve games dressed up as proper fixtures - I never watched reserve games when it was called the combination league and won’t watch them now so that rules out any cup games for me unless we reach the quarter finals in the fa cup or possibly the league cup - anything else, I’m not interested.1 - Sponsored links:
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Get this bloke in from Horndean FC. He’ll sort them out.8
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Bowyer did it, Powell did it - these owners are taking a punt that another manager may just do it - the set up in the 90's etc was great but lets not pretend that our success and transformation into a proper football club again wasn't fundamentally down to Alan Curbishley.Airman Brown said:
To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out.If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right.You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil.The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.0 -
We’re conditioned to it imo. The amount of comments defending the team and individual players on here over the last few years who let’s face it, are poor to average, have been too many imo. Take your pick, Gilbey, Morgan, Fraser, Inniss, the list goes on. The only difference this season is I think in May, Dobbo, CBT, Louie Watson and Leaburn, you’ve got 5 that you don’t need to make excuses for. They will all have off games, of course. However, I do genuinely feel positive about all of them.Chunes said:
We need to stop making excuses and normalising performances like that. It's way, way below the standard we should accept at this club and this attitude of acceptance that's creeping in could be just as detrimental as the performance itself.Garrymanilow said:I'm genuinely not sure if some of you realise we didn't lose yesterday. Bad day but we gifted them a goal and they got a draw out of it. Plenty of opportunity to right the wrong and move on with our lives
We should be setting the bar high, not lowering it to justify a lackluster performance against a team one level above county football.
I’m done with Fraser. Watching him over the last few weeks, you can tell he’s a weak person. He hides, thinks he’s several levels above what he really brings. We know Kirk hasn’t worked out here, and whilst I’m no fan, I think his career has completely gone off the rails and I wish him well elsewhere. I’m not excusing his performance during his time here, he’s been appalling, I think something’s gone very wrong somewhere for him.
Hector’s been a big disappointment, and Terrell Thomas is what you get when you advocate for ‘good squad player’ as so many did in the summer. It’s a bit too early to tell which of the new influx will go on to be your Gilbey’s of this world, but without doubt, there will be a few8 -
Terrell Thomas is what you get when you sign someone who is fine as cover/backup but play him as a first team regular. Previous squads that got us promoted from League One had players of similar quality to Thomas but in those seasons they played maybe 15 games, max and a lot of them as substitutes. What we can't get right is signing quality, physically robust players that make up a regular and reliable first choice XI.cabbles said:
We’re conditioned to it imo. The amount of comments defending the team and individual players on here over the last few years who let’s face it, are poor to average, have been too many imo. Take your pick, Gilbey, Morgan, Fraser, Inniss, the list goes on. The only difference this season is I think in May, Dobbo, CBT, Louie Watson and Leaburn, you’ve got 5 that you don’t need to make excuses for. They will all have off games, of course. However, I do genuinely feel positive about all of them.Chunes said:
We need to stop making excuses and normalising performances like that. It's way, way below the standard we should accept at this club and this attitude of acceptance that's creeping in could be just as detrimental as the performance itself.Garrymanilow said:I'm genuinely not sure if some of you realise we didn't lose yesterday. Bad day but we gifted them a goal and they got a draw out of it. Plenty of opportunity to right the wrong and move on with our lives
We should be setting the bar high, not lowering it to justify a lackluster performance against a team one level above county football.
I’m done with Fraser. Watching him over the last few weeks, you can tell he’s a weak person. He hides, thinks he’s several levels above what he really brings. We know Kirk hasn’t worked out here, and whilst I’m no fan, I think his career has completely gone off the rails and I wish him well elsewhere. I’m not excusing his performance during his time here, he’s been appalling, I think something’s gone very wrong somewhere for him.
Hector’s been a big disappointment, and Terrell Thomas is what you get when you advocate for ‘good squad player’ as so many did in the summer. It’s a bit too early to tell which of the new influx will go on to be your Gilbey’s of this world, but without doubt, there will be a few8 -
I don’t think the return to The Valley and rebuilding the ground up to 1998 was realistically down to Curbs, do you? I think it had a lot more to do with the board (and fans). Without that there isn’t a club to manage.DOUCHER said:
Bowyer did it, Powell did it - these owners are taking a punt that another manager may just do it - the set up in the 90's etc was great but lets not pretend that our success and transformation into a proper football club again wasn't fundamentally down to Alan Curbishley.Airman Brown said:
To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out.If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right.You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil.The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.You can make a better argument post 98.8 -
Agreed.WrightCharlie said:Well thank goodness we've got that replay! I didn't expect a draw beforehand but it seems the right result, well done to Cray Valley they deserve it.
We started brightly and after the goal I thought we'd crack on and put the result beyond doubt. Even when we hadn't scored another before half time I still thought we'd do it. Predictably they came out for the second half hungry and with all guns blazing. Where were we? Still stuck in in stroke it around at the back mode. Low energy and low speed of passing/movement........ down to MA for not winding them up before he sent them out and down to the players themselves too.
Given their lack of matchplay I thought Edun, McGrandles and Campbell did ok. Abankwah looks like he will be decent but like Anderson and Ness he's not near the finished article yet and I think MA should have realised we'd be weak with these 3 defending our right side.
Tedic worked hard but was outfought and outplayed by a very experienced CB, so I'd keep going with him when needed.
As the second half rolled in I started to think about which game changers MA could bring on. Campbell looked the most likely to open them up but then he picked up the knock on his hip and it seemed to knock the stuffing out of him. With the benefit of hindsight MA didn't gets the subs right this time, neither the timing or the choices. The timing was too late and the 2 guys who'd be most likely to shake them up, CBT and TC, didn't figure in his choices.
I can see why MA started with that 11, they all needed game time and some also needed to 'prove' themselves, it also gave other more regular players a chance at a rest. Why on earth he didn't gee them up at half time or make more timely/better sub choices who know.
A bad day at the office for MA and the team. And a rotten evening on the sofa for me!
It was obvious that the Cray manager would fire them up at HT, having managed to limit us to just a 1-0 lead, which would have been much better than they expected.
We needed to be similarly up for it, but instead let them get a foothold in the game. Their players saw how lethargic we were and grew in confidence.
And yes, the changes Appleton made made us worse. Pointless to bring May on and play him out wide, when CBT or TC would have terrified their full backs.5 -
Somebody with ambition, which this lot don't have.Bailey said:
And the buyer is who ?ElfsborgAddick said:
We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.0 -
Sandgaard had ambition…0
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East Street investments are looking for a club !ElfsborgAddick said:
Somebody with ambition, which this lot don't have.Bailey said:
And the buyer is who ?ElfsborgAddick said:
We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.Bailey said:
I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all.Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.
So you really don't know do you, just an uninformed rant. Just scroll up or go through thousands of posts as to why nobody wants to invest in Charlton Athletic. The club is divorced from the ground, with a fifty mill price tag on it that is way above its current worth.Charlton are a first division club losing 7 million a year and even if they were to get promoted then they would lose just as much. With no guarantee of recovering the investment made, anyone with 'ambition' as you call it has enough brains to steer clear.2 -
When posters argue that we shouldn't accept being an average L1 club, what do they mean? What am I guilty of for living with the reality of the present day and not in the past?
Of course I'd like us to be competing higher up the leagues with ambitious owners and want us to be successful, as we all do, but I don't feel any more entitled than supporters of other clubs in L1, regardless of size/ history. When did that ever win us three points? It's eleven v eleven on the grass!
Supporting football clubs is a rollercoaster experience, but some seem so preoccupied feeling our's is located in the wrong place in L1 that they don't want to get on board and take (accept) the ride. They don't want others to either and make that quite clear.
Well, unless you have pots of money to splurge on owning the club, there's damn all you can do about it other than ask questions and try to hold the owners to account. It is what it is.
Apologies for the rant, and of course I acknowledge the magnificent efforts of our supporters to shape our history in the past, but endlessly wishing we were somewhere we're not does me no good at all.
5 - Sponsored links:
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I have this conversation with a good mate of mine.swordfish said:When posters argue that we shouldn't accept being an average L1 club, what do they mean? What am I guilty of for living with the reality of the present day and not in the past?
Of course I'd like us to be competing higher up the leagues with ambitious owners and want us to be successful, as we all do, but I don't feel any more entitled than supporters of other clubs in L1, regardless of size/ history. When did that ever win us three points? It's eleven v eleven on the grass!
Supporting football clubs is a rollercoaster experience, but some seem so preoccupied feeling our's is located in the wrong place in L1 that they don't want to get on board and take (accept) the ride. They don't want others to either and make that quite clear.
Well, unless you have pots of money to splurge on owning the club, there's damn all you can do about it other than ask questions and try to hold the owners to account. It is what it is.
Apologies for the rant, and of course I acknowledge the magnificent efforts of our supporters to shape our history in the past, but endlessly wishing we were somewhere we're not does me no good at all.
Both of us have been supporting Charlton home and away for over 55 years.
He sees things pretty much as you do.
My take is that our natural position in the football pyramid is probably about mid table in the championship.
The years we had in the top flight under Lenny and Curbs we was definitely punching above our weight.
The length of time we are spending in league one shows we are not being run as we should be.
When I go to away games and see just how small some of the grounds are and how small the support is it just confirms how far we have fallen and I find it hard to accept.
Nothing I can do about it though that's up to the people that own the club.
At the end of the day some supporters are more accepting of our position than others.
All about opinions I suppose.18 -
10 seasons in 15 in the third tier
previous 74 years we had 4 seasons in the third tier
yes we are shit and it is what It is but no way am I accepting of it , even though there is little I can do about it , all owners, players and managers are shit till proven otherwise12 -
These guys have owned the Club for precisely 108 days.
Give them a chance FFS.
@Airman Brown is convinced their business plan is fixed and does not allow for sufficient investment in the squad to win promotion.
He may be right but I believe these investors are not idiots and, while they won't piss all their money down the toilet in the time-honoured tradition in English football, they have not invested £12m to sit on their hands and do nothing further to enable the club to mount a meaningful challenge for promotion, providing they're convinced it's being managed well and there is a return to be made by selected further investment. And the only way they will ever make a return is by promotion.
The change of manager early enough to recover from a dire start is a positive because we've now got a manager who, at least, speaks honestly and not in cliches and has started with a promotion-challenging points tally.
How they'll play the January window who knows? For me, the jury will remain out until the end of the League season.
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It is, and thanks for replying with yours.blackpool72 said:
I have this conversation with a good mate of mine.swordfish said:When posters argue that we shouldn't accept being an average L1 club, what do they mean? What am I guilty of for living with the reality of the present day and not in the past?
Of course I'd like us to be competing higher up the leagues with ambitious owners and want us to be successful, as we all do, but I don't feel any more entitled than supporters of other clubs in L1, regardless of size/ history. When did that ever win us three points? It's eleven v eleven on the grass!
Supporting football clubs is a rollercoaster experience, but some seem so preoccupied feeling our's is located in the wrong place in L1 that they don't want to get on board and take (accept) the ride. They don't want others to either and make that quite clear.
Well, unless you have pots of money to splurge on owning the club, there's damn all you can do about it other than ask questions and try to hold the owners to account. It is what it is.
Apologies for the rant, and of course I acknowledge the magnificent efforts of our supporters to shape our history in the past, but endlessly wishing we were somewhere we're not does me no good at all.
Both of us have been supporting Charlton home and away for over 55 years.
He sees things pretty much as you do.
My take is that our natural position in the football pyramid is probably about mid table in the championship.
The years we had in the top flight under Lenny and Curbs we was definitely punching above our weight.
The length of time we are spending in league one shows we are not being run as we should be.
When I go to away games and see just how small some of the grounds are and how small the support is it just confirms how far we have fallen and I find it hard to accept.
Nothing I can do about it though that's up to the people that own the club.
At the end of the day some supporters are more accepting of our position than others.
All about opinions I suppose.
Look, I can study the tables and see that Brentford are the third best placed London club in the leagues. My instinct is to think they should be where we are, but I accept the footballing landscape is a constantly changing one and for far too long we've been digging ourselves into a bigger hole.
Our time will come again I'm sure.4 -
Post 98 sorted the ground out properly and brought us 20k plus crowds and enabled you and others to do hat you were trying to do a lot more effectivelyAirman Brown said:
I don’t think the return to The Valley and rebuilding the ground up to 1998 was realistically down to Curbs, do you? I think it had a lot more to do with the board (and fans). Without that there isn’t a club to manage.DOUCHER said:
Bowyer did it, Powell did it - these owners are taking a punt that another manager may just do it - the set up in the 90's etc was great but lets not pretend that our success and transformation into a proper football club again wasn't fundamentally down to Alan Curbishley.Airman Brown said:
To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?Bailey said:Airman Brown said:
No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.PeanutsMolloy said:I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
But put it in context.
We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge.Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around.The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out.If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right.You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil.The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.You can make a better argument post 98.0 -
It's a gazillion to one shot they'll make any return on us . Premiership is where the alleged profit may be but get there and then see what it's cost to get there and then stay there , it's not happening at a club like Charlton starting from this low a base .PeanutsMolloy said:providing they're convinced it's being managed well and there is a return to be made by selected further investment. And the only way they will ever make a return is by promotion.
They're burning their money and I hope they have done the correct due dilligence rather than fall for the salesmans patter and are ready to dig deep cos a vanity project could bring success at a large cost to them , as a business investment not on your nelly will there be a return3 -
There are investors whose strategy is to buy “Penny shares”. Shares of crud companies that nobody wants to own.oohaahmortimer said:
It's a gazillion to one shot they'll make any return on us . Premiership is where the alleged profit may be but get there and then see what it's cost to get there and then stay there , it's not happening at a club like Charlton starting from this low a base .PeanutsMolloy said:providing they're convinced it's being managed well and there is a return to be made by selected further investment. And the only way they will ever make a return is by promotion.
They're burning their money and I hope they have done the correct due dilligence rather than fall for the salesmans patter and are ready to dig deep cos a vanity project could bring success at a large cost to them , as a business investment not on your nelly will there be a return
Why?
Because any improvement in performance can prompt other investors to take an interest and elevate the share price to 10p.
Still a naff business but the investors have made a 900% gain.
Our current owners can still potentially make a return by flipping the club if we gain promotion to the Championship, even if we remain loss-making, because other investors may say, look at Brentford or now Ipswich. The PL is now a possibility.
As it happens, they’ve denied it’s a flip they’re looking for. Hopefully we’ll find out if that’s true.
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Leuth said:
Aren't you meant to be someone who represents our club to the wider internet? This statement is embarrassingBraziliance said:I saw a fairly reasonable vlogger yesterday say that this result was a sackable offence.
As much as I am not sure about that, I have never been sold on Appleton. I don't see any tactics when we play, I think a lot of our good results are down to having a few, genuinely decent players and them having stellar performances, not tactical management. If he was a manager who had a playstyle it would have shown against a part-time team, he couldn't even manage that. According to a fair few people these professionals should have got a result so Appleton must be tactically inept? It's either that or they aren't professional standard.
I have him in the same boat as Garner, Adkins, Holden, Slade etc. Just a very ordinary bloke who's been fortunate enough to get himself in the footballing managerial scheme and clubs take chances on relative past success.
I think of every fan group who tried to sell him to us and it was largely Oxford and Lincoln fans. No disrespect to them but our ambition is simply higher than theirs. They were accustomed to watching league 2 footie (or recently) while he was there. Most of us would be ashamed to operate at that level, we are all fed up of league 1 as is.
I just think it's inevitable we go nowhere again this season and he will just be another manager we will be reeling off in the future that didn't get it right.
Might sound harsh but take away the likes of Dobbo, May, CBT, Leaburn and some of the newer lads like Jones and of course our youth and then I truly couldn't give a b*llocks about most of these players. They take the p*ss and can't even be bothered to bust a gut.
No I'm not, all my views are my own perception. I never claim to represent every Charlton fan when I speak.
I think our results have flattered to deceive a little bit and I am of the stance it has been down to individual quality rather than tactics. We could have had a caretaker manager and those goals at Wigan would have still happened as they were mostly the result of individual brilliance.
I don't see a playstyle happening for us, I see players being played out of position and individuals such as Watson, Dobson, CBT, May and a few others putting in good enough performances to get us some results.
Subject to change of course but that's how I see it. I also don't entirely blame Appleton as if it was up to me and I owned this club, only around 5 of these senior players would have a contract here and then a handful of the youth. It's hard to implement a playstyle on bang average players as Ben Garner found out.3 -
I thought Braziliance was a club ambassador in a highly paid role alongside Methven and co4
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I genuinely can't see anyone all of a sudden paying £20m+ for us if we got promoted this season and then add on the costs each year when we don't go up, in our present no ground/training ground ownership state .PeanutsMolloy said:
Our current owners can still potentially make a return by flipping the club if we gain promotion to the Championship, even if we remain loss-making, because other investors may say, look at Brentford or now Ipswich. The PL is now a possibility.
Ipswich have spent real money to get where they are ... not minged about trying to save pennies .
Everyone's trying to be the next Brentford but they're the outlier1
