MATCH THREAD (+POST p23): Charlton Athl v Cray Valley PM: FA Cup 🏆1st Rd: Sun 5 Nov 2023 | KO 17:30

Dazzler21 said:

One thing is for sure, January and Summer will need to see big clear outs of the remaining deadwood and a lot of money will need to be spent. 

But the problem is we say that every year.

Bilko said:

Dazzler21 said:

One thing is for sure, January and Summer will need to see big clear outs of the remaining deadwood and a lot of money will need to be spent. 

But the problem is we say that every year.

Yep and we never do it. 

Dazzler21 said:

ValleyGary said:

Dazzler21 said:

ValleyGary said:

Is the replay likely to be during an international break? If it does, then there should be no reason to not field a strong side if no game on the saturday.

Good shout, however if we're already not playing due to intl call ups, that won't work. 

One of our internationals is Anderson who likely won’t play anyway. I presume the other two are Hector and AMB? Can still field a strong side without those.

Yes but I believe if we have had a league fixture called off for Intl call ups, it would be seen as disingenuous or at least disrespectful to the league to then play another fixture on the same date. 

I could be wrong. 

It’ll be on the 14th with the international break on the 18th. 

ValleyGary said:

That 11 Should have beat Cray Valley - But didn't.

It obvious some of the players shouldn't and hopefully wont, be used again.

Some players were 'rested' but we now have another fixture - meaning some players will play 3 games in 7 days.

All the above means Appleton fucked up.

For me the draw was the worst possible outcome. Watching the highlights after seeing the game live, we had enough chances to win by 3-1 maybe 4-1. At times I thought we played too slowly .

seth plum said:

IAgree said:

seth plum said:

I don’t buy the excuse/angle from Appleton that the humiliation enabled him to learn stuff about our players so all is good then. Absolute crap to say he has only been here a short time and he is learning about our players. What does he do all week FFS?
He was presented with a Televised cup game at home against a team more than 100 places below us in the pyramid, and it was his decisions that have led to our humiliation.
Whoever appointed Appleton is also responsible.

Well there’s a surprise!

All you have done since he was appointed is set unrealistic and unachievable “goals” and flogged every game as a must win, but with absolutely no reference to the squad he inherited or the appalling instability at the club generally. Any plus points are largely ignored and negatives seem to be seized upon and illustrate your central hostility to Appleton.

It was a poor & foolish choice of squad, a frankly appalling result and ultimately hasn’t has the effect of resting the first team as we have another game now anyway. Of course the manager has made big mistakes in this situation. We also have a squad with clearly limited depth (and enthusiasm) and the defence from Hades and some players need to go.

I get & feel the anger about Appletons mistakes, the disconnect between his talk and action and the pathetic performances last night, however we have done much better in the league since his arrival and his stats are not by any measure poor.

Sure if there is resentment we didn’t get another manager, the expectations are set ridiculously high and the squad and context are ignored, then it’s easy to jump up and down about this result and catastrophise.

If he learns from the mistakes he makes that’s good enough for me, if he continues to make them it’s a different situation, however the fact is he is still new, it’s is a very threadbare squad and the context to his appointment was one of chaos and instability and he, like all managers, should be given at least a modicum of time to improve things. At the present time it’s far far to early to be quite as hostile.

Lets see how he responds to this appalling shambles and how we do at the weekend…..

You might think it is only me, but have you looked at the player mark/Applescore thread and read a few of the remarks?
It could be we're all crying for the moon, whilst we lay in this gutter.

@seth plum I think the point @IAgree was making, is that since MA has been here you have set every single game as 'must win', which is entirely unrealistic! It seems that you have a dislike for him, or don't want him as our manager. I to was not overly enthusiastic by his appt at the beginning and yes he has made mistakes, but he has also only lost 2 games during his tenure to date, that's not a bad record and, as I said on an earlier post, we are 5 points off a play off spot with a game in hand and this is not his squad!
Yesterday was a huge fuck up, but I blame the pros, who it seems, couldn't be arsed. 
The scores on the player mark thread were about yesterday, look at the one for Wigan its completely different.
No manager can 'must win' every game, as even the likes of Man City and Arsenal have found out this season.
Cut the guy some slack, he is trying to recover a terrible start to the season, which he can't be blamed for!
He needs to be given a fair chance to build his own squad in January and needs full support from the owners.
22 managers since Curbishly, as I quoted earlier, proves that knee jerk reactions don't work, we need stability on and off the field!
Keep chopping and changing managers is not going to improve our situation, and I would begin to wonder which manager in their right minds that would want to come to a club that hires and fires as quick as we do, can you?


 

seth plum said:

For this cup game i didn't call it a must win.
Every time I say a game is a must win it is related to the number of points needed for success.

No you didn't, for the first time since he's been here, but you did say you don't buy the excuse from him when he said the result enabled him to see and learn things about the players. Well that group on the field yesterday have hardly turned out in a match situation, which is completely different from training ground stuff!
Well now he has, he's seen at least 60 odd mins in a match situation and he said he's seen who he now knows he can't basically trust. Then you have a dig at the people who appointed MA in the first place, it all points to you not wanting him here from the beginning, so I ask again who do you think would come to us that would-:
1) Join a club that hires and fires on a whim?
2) Can get better results from the Current group of players? 
3) Would have your seal of approval where you had some patience? 
We have to be realistic nowadays, we are a 3rd Division club, have been for most of the last few years and been poorly owned by a constant flow of chancers. It has to stop and stop now, so let's give MA time to build his own squad, if allowed to do so in January, and see if we can push on for the play offs. You never know it might just work out!

Well thank goodness we've got that replay! I didn't expect a draw beforehand but it seems the right result, well done to Cray Valley they deserve it.
We started brightly and after the goal I thought we'd crack on and put the result beyond doubt. Even when we hadn't scored another before half time I still thought we'd do it. Predictably they came out for the second half hungry and with all guns blazing. Where were we? Still stuck in in stroke it around at the back mode. Low energy and low speed of passing/movement........ down to MA for not winding them up before he sent them out and down to the players themselves too.
Given their lack of matchplay I thought Edun, McGrandles and Campbell did ok. Abankwah looks like he will be decent but like Anderson and Ness he's not near the finished article yet and I think MA should have realised we'd be weak with these 3 defending our right side.
Tedic worked hard but was outfought and outplayed by a very experienced CB, so I'd keep going with him when needed.
As the second half rolled in I started to think about which game changers MA could bring on. Campbell looked the most likely to open them up but then he picked up the knock on his hip and it seemed to knock the stuffing out of him. With the benefit of hindsight MA didn't gets the subs right this time, neither the timing or the choices. The timing was too late and the 2 guys who'd be most likely to shake them up, CBT and TC, didn't figure in his choices.
I can see why MA started with that 11, they all needed game time and some also needed to 'prove' themselves, it also gave other more regular players a chance at a rest. Why on earth he didn't gee them up at half time or make more timely/better sub choices who know.
A bad day at the office for MA and the team. And a rotten evening on the sofa for me!

LargeAddick said:

I've waited till now to post and I'm still fuming. That was the worst display/result in our entire history. End of.

You must be very old to have seen them all.

Callumcafc said:

golfaddick said:

killerandflash said:

Lets examine that starting 11

Walker - In Isted's absence, he's our No 2 keeper. If we can't play him against an 8th tier team, when can we play him?

Abankwah - Not a RB, but would Asiimwe or T Watson have been much different?
Ness - Wasn't everyone screaming for Hector to be dropped and Ness to replace him?
Thomas - Has been a regular at LB, so again perfectly reasonable to play him in his correct position
Edun - Our 1st choice LB coming back from injury. The perfect game for him to get some minutes

Anderson - Talented youngster, started the season well
McGrandles - Has done well under Appleton previously. A perfect opportunity to give him some minutes after his injury
Fraser - "The Scottish Pirlo". Was one of the 1st names on the teamsheet at the start of the season before his injury.

Kirk - The ideal opportunity to get some confidence into him
Tedic - Not been given a chance to play as a No 9, the perfect chance for him to get a goal or 2 and get some confidence
Chem - Many people have been questioning why he hasn't been in the matchday squads

It didn't work, but I can understand why Appleton picked that team. He would have learned a lot from yesterday, and not just about Kirk. Other players "failed the audition" while the lack of leadership in the first 11 is even worse in the reserve 11. 

The problem isn't playing those players. The problem is playing them all together & expect them to play as a team.

By all means give Tedic a run out. And McGrandles if needs be. But start with 4 or 5 of your regular starters. What is it we are persistently told about having a spine of a team. 

Brian Clough is regarded as one of this counties best ever managers. He would never have made 11 changes to a side that had just won their first away game of the season. 

Play your best players. Win the game. Then make changes. 

Playing your best players doesn’t guarantee shit. Ask Portsmouth how their first choice XI got on yesterday.

Appleton picked a starting XI that had almost 1600 combined senior league appearances between them. It’s not as if he played a group of 18 year olds that barely had 50 senior appearances between them and they got outmuscled. 

Whatever combination of full time pros he picked, it should have been comfortable against 8th tier opposition.

Portsmouth didn't play a team in the 8th tier.
That is the difference. 
12 years ago, aged 35, I was playing in games and beating Cray Valley.
It simply isn't acceptable.
You know it.  I know it.  Appleton knows it.

Redmidland said:

seth plum said:

Redmidland said:

seth plum said:

For this cup game i didn't call it a must win.
Every time I say a game is a must win it is related to the number of points needed for success.

No you didn't, for the first time since he's been here, but you did say you don't buy the excuse from him when he said the result enabled him to see and learn things about the players. Well that group on the field yesterday have hardly turned out in a match situation, which is completely different from training ground stuff!
Well now he has, he's seen at least 60 odd mins in a match situation and he said he's seen who he now knows he can't basically trust. Then you have a dig at the people who appointed MA in the first place, it all points to you not wanting him here from the beginning, so I ask again who do you think would come to us that would-:
1) Join a club that hires and fires on a whim?
2) Can get better results from the Current group of players? 
3) Would have your seal of approval where you had some patience? 
We have to be realistic nowadays, we are a 3rd Division club, have been for most of the last few years and been poorly owned by a constant flow of chancers. It has to stop and stop now, so let's give MA time to build his own squad, if allowed to do so in January, and see if we can push on for the play offs. You never know it might just work out!

I take your point about being realistic, even though I am getting quite fed up with the realism of being stuck down here as a soft touch nothing much club.
But may i ask if it was realistic to expect much better than we were served up yesterday?

Yes it was realistic to expect a whole lot better, as I said in a previous post that it was a 'fuck up'.
However I blame the players, maybe with the exception if Mcgrandles, Edun and Campbell. They are all experienced pros and didn't turn up! You can be the best manager in the world  but if players, as a collective, don't show up then you are screwed. For me MA should've made subs at HT, especially Kirk and Tedic, for May and Miles. He left them too late in the day. I would also have subbed Mcgrandles when he run out of steam for Dobbo.
So, yes MA made mistakes in my eyes, but 95% of the fault lies with the players who started, it shouldn't be the end of MA. 
Absolutely agree  Red, but you know that there are people who will use that result on Sunday to reinforce their case against Appleton, ignoring the progress made so far under his tenure. 

I was in the directors box for the Bolton game & noticed his lack of involvement with the team during the game, sat 2nd row of the West last night, same thing again, nothing. Not sure how you can improve things on the field without some involvement with the team.

We would have done better playing the Under 21s.

supaclive said:

Callumcafc said:

golfaddick said:

killerandflash said:

Lets examine that starting 11

Walker - In Isted's absence, he's our No 2 keeper. If we can't play him against an 8th tier team, when can we play him?

Abankwah - Not a RB, but would Asiimwe or T Watson have been much different?
Ness - Wasn't everyone screaming for Hector to be dropped and Ness to replace him?
Thomas - Has been a regular at LB, so again perfectly reasonable to play him in his correct position
Edun - Our 1st choice LB coming back from injury. The perfect game for him to get some minutes

Anderson - Talented youngster, started the season well
McGrandles - Has done well under Appleton previously. A perfect opportunity to give him some minutes after his injury
Fraser - "The Scottish Pirlo". Was one of the 1st names on the teamsheet at the start of the season before his injury.

Kirk - The ideal opportunity to get some confidence into him
Tedic - Not been given a chance to play as a No 9, the perfect chance for him to get a goal or 2 and get some confidence
Chem - Many people have been questioning why he hasn't been in the matchday squads

It didn't work, but I can understand why Appleton picked that team. He would have learned a lot from yesterday, and not just about Kirk. Other players "failed the audition" while the lack of leadership in the first 11 is even worse in the reserve 11. 

The problem isn't playing those players. The problem is playing them all together & expect them to play as a team.

By all means give Tedic a run out. And McGrandles if needs be. But start with 4 or 5 of your regular starters. What is it we are persistently told about having a spine of a team. 

Brian Clough is regarded as one of this counties best ever managers. He would never have made 11 changes to a side that had just won their first away game of the season. 

Play your best players. Win the game. Then make changes. 

Playing your best players doesn’t guarantee shit. Ask Portsmouth how their first choice XI got on yesterday.

Appleton picked a starting XI that had almost 1600 combined senior league appearances between them. It’s not as if he played a group of 18 year olds that barely had 50 senior appearances between them and they got outmuscled. 

Whatever combination of full time pros he picked, it should have been comfortable against 8th tier opposition.

Portsmouth didn't play a team in the 8th tier.
That is the difference. 
12 years ago, aged 35, I was playing in games and beating Cray Valley.
It simply isn't acceptable.
You know it.  I know it.  Appleton knows it.

and they were away against a team doing well at the moment in the National League. We were at home to a team in the 9th tier.