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England Cricket 2023

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  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,034
    Leuth said:
    Aldridge of Somerset is another in that mould. Can bat pretty well too

    Lawes' bowling has been much better than Curran's for a year or two!
    The stats may show that sure because of how much he has played compared to Curran and because of the role he has played (usually 5th seamer in a side with at least 5 seamers). He has this great knack of breaking partnerships and getting a wicket when we need it. Watching his bowling its pretty similar. 78mph whippy from a low angle, can get swing but doesnt do all that much else with it. No pace or bounce to trouble international class batsmen.


    But as you used to call Sam Curran a mascot when he played for England and had that same knack of making things happen I'd think you'd not be keen on the same type player again.  
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,778
    edited August 2023
    The next test series is in India. The bowling attack will be based on those conditions I would imagine. If a player is wanted by the IPL then he might be a good choice for Indian conditions so Curran meets that criteria. Liam Livingstone may be a shout too.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,924
    edited August 2023
    The one I have doubts about being in the England side in four years time is Ollie Robinson. Well not that Ollie Robinson anyway. He will be well past his 33rd birthday at that time and has a proven inability to stay fit enough for the rigours of playing Test cricket. 

    Robinson was only into his 12th over of the Headingley Test when he suffered a back spasm that ruled him out of the rest of the game. Last year, on the tour of the West Indies he was bowling his 10th over in the warm up game against the President's XI when he had to come off, again because of a back spasm and did not play a single Test on that tour. And prior to that, on the Ashes 21/22 tour, he suffered yet another back spasm which caused the England bowling coach, Jon Lewis, to criticise him for his lack of fitness. If he struggles as a 27, 28 and 29 year old to stay fit then I'm really not sure, especially with the size of his body and penchant for the good life, that he is likely to be fit at the age of 33. Any recurrence of this in the intervening years may cause the England management to look elsewhere anyway. 


  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,858
    The exciting thing is that it’s been a long time since there’s been this many spots opening up to be part of an England bowling attack. 

    Broad and Anderson have had two places locked down for 15 years. Woakes, Stokes and Moeen have all been around for roughly 10 years each.

    There might just be some unexpected diamonds uncovered in the near future.

    I’m excited to see who develops over the course of the next year or two, who is going to step forward and grab this massive opportunity.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,387
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,356
    Lincsaddick said:
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
    Leading the England attack to victory in the World Test Championship Final at Lord's in 2025? 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    i think woakes will probably be the one to pick up broad's spot for the short term, i don't think the likes of sam cook will get their chance til anderson hangs up his boots.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,356
    kentaddick said:
    i think woakes will probably be the one to pick up broad's spot for the short term, i don't think the likes of sam cook will get their chance til anderson hangs up his boots.
    From his interview responses yesterday, it seemed very clear that Woakes didn't expect to be touring anywhere
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,387
    Chizz said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
    Leading the England attack to victory in the World Test Championship Final at Lord's in 2025? 
    be good it that happens .. B)
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Pelling1993 said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Chizz said:
    Leuth said:
    (If Stokes has a better personal Ashes than Green I will eat a zillion humble pies and meet Chizz in Makro's car park with a crown and sceptre to present to him)
    Stokes 
    Runs 405  
    HS 155 
    Batting ave 45.00 
    S/R 64.69 
    Fours 31 
    Sixes 15 
    Ducks 0 
    Wkts 3 
    Runs 89 
    Bowling ave 29.66 
    Econ 3.06 
    S/R 58.0 
    Catches 6
    Ave diff 15.33 

    Green 
    Runs 103   
    HS 38  
    Batting ave 20.60 
    S/R 41.53 
    Fours 10 
    Sixes 1
    Ducks 1
    Wkts 5 
    Runs 235 
    Bowling ave 47.00 
    Econ 5.14 
    S/R 54.8 
    Catches 4 
    Ave diff -26.39 

    So, Stokes scored more runs, quicker, at a higher average, hitting more fours and sixes, took more catches and conceded fewer runs, at a better economy rate than Green; while Green made more ducks, took two more wickets in the series (one of which was the immortal Bairstow st Carey b Green) and had a marginally better bowling strike rate, but missed two Tests, one through being physically more fragile than even Stokes; and one through being dropped).   

    Based on average difference, Stokes (second-best all-rounder in the series) was 41.72 runs "better" than Green (16th best). 

    Bon appetite! 
    He also said Robinson was "generational" and Woakes should not play because he is picked purely because he can bat a bit...
    Ollie Robinson is absolutely quality. We are so quick to write players off
    I am not writing him off, he is a fine bowler, but to use "generational" for a generation that included Anderson and Broad is well OTT.  

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  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Leuth said:
    also go away Chizz, also Robinson really is very good indeed when fully fit, also Woakes has surely surpassed everyone's expectations, even his own
    Woakes has taken over 100 test match wickets in England at a smidgen under 22 so maybe very slightly.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,401
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Leuth said:
    also go away Chizz, also Robinson really is very good indeed when fully fit, also Woakes has surely surpassed everyone's expectations, even his own
    Woakes has taken over 100 test match wickets in England at a smidgen under 22 so maybe very slightly.
    But a) it's Australia and b) all the talk was that these wouldn't be pitches that offered much to the quicks, and yet he's still bulldozed them. Also there were a few fitness concerns. Fair to say not many saw this coming
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    The next test series is in India. The bowling attack will be based on those conditions I would imagine. If a player is wanted by the IPL then he might be a good choice for Indian conditions so Curran meets that criteria. Liam Livingstone may be a shout too.
    The IPL conditions will be a million miles away from the pitches we get in the test series, unfortunately.
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,034
    Lincsaddick said:
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
    I'm convinced this was a trigger for Broads retirement. He kept mentioning going out at the top and I'm sure that seeing all the press and social media comments on Andersons form and whether he is past it and should retire convinced him not to let it get to that point for him.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,080
    edited August 2023
    cantersaddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
    I'm convinced this was a trigger for Broads retirement. He kept mentioning going out at the top and I'm sure that seeing all the press and social media comments on Andersons form and whether he is past it and should retire convinced him not to let it get to that point for him.
    Plus he & partner Mollie have a young daughter.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,080
    In fact Broad said exactly that I see.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12357901/Mollie-King-kisses-fianc-Stuart-Broad-proudly-supports-baby-daughter-Annabella-finishes-legendary-career-2-2-Ashes-series-draw-Oval.html
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,998
    cantersaddick said:
    Leuth said:
    Lawes is the Surrey one I expect to see break through, not Atkinson, but it looks like a good guess otherwise
    Tom Lawes opens doors is the saying at Surrey. But as someone who isn't a fan of Sam Curran I'm surprised you're backing Lawes. Lawes is basically the next Sam Curran. Young, short whippy action, has a knack for making things happen, can bat a bit and his batting will develop, but doesn't have any real pace or menace to his bowling. Useful player and hopefully he keeps developing but like Sam may not be much more than a 4th seamer in tests so may pursue the T20 route. 

    Atkinson on the other hand is a genuine quick. Not Mark Wood quick but quicker than Tongue. Gets bounce and has the ability to really trouble batsmen. I suspect pace is the key factor here. I know that's the reason England have been watching him this season. Expect him to be on some kind of fast bowlers programme shortly.
    Gus Atkinson is a good choice if he can stay fit and breakdown to often. He can bring the ball down from above average cheight and get good bounce . As a Surrey member I also reckon Hamie Overton might well come back into the England reckoning again. He has bowled well for us ab bats well as well.
    One not mentioned is Ethan Bamber of Middlesex only 24. Looks a good fast medium bowler.

  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 17,034
    msomerton said:
    cantersaddick said:
    Leuth said:
    Lawes is the Surrey one I expect to see break through, not Atkinson, but it looks like a good guess otherwise
    Tom Lawes opens doors is the saying at Surrey. But as someone who isn't a fan of Sam Curran I'm surprised you're backing Lawes. Lawes is basically the next Sam Curran. Young, short whippy action, has a knack for making things happen, can bat a bit and his batting will develop, but doesn't have any real pace or menace to his bowling. Useful player and hopefully he keeps developing but like Sam may not be much more than a 4th seamer in tests so may pursue the T20 route. 

    Atkinson on the other hand is a genuine quick. Not Mark Wood quick but quicker than Tongue. Gets bounce and has the ability to really trouble batsmen. I suspect pace is the key factor here. I know that's the reason England have been watching him this season. Expect him to be on some kind of fast bowlers programme shortly.
    Gus Atkinson is a good choice if he can stay fit and breakdown to often. He can bring the ball down from above average cheight and get good bounce . As a Surrey member I also reckon Hamie Overton might well come back into the England reckoning again. He has bowled well for us ab bats well as well.
    One not mentioned is Ethan Bamber of Middlesex only 24. Looks a good fast medium bowler.

    Agreed on JOverton if he could stay fit. Would have been in the reckoning for the first 2 ashes tests if fit (as would have Stone, Mahmood, Archer etc.)
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 23,009
    Overton might ruin his Test average of 97 though!
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 23,009
    Covered End said:
    cantersaddick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    in a way it's a pity that Broad and not Anderson announced that he was retiring from all cricket .. I hope that Anderson can find an equally impressive way to leave the field and that he doesn't overstay his welcome and is remembered as much for hanging on to past glories as much as for his wonderful career as a formidable pace bowler, possibly the best that England has ever produced
    I'm convinced this was a trigger for Broads retirement. He kept mentioning going out at the top and I'm sure that seeing all the press and social media comments on Andersons form and whether he is past it and should retire convinced him not to let it get to that point for him.
    Plus he & partner Mollie have a young daughter.
    I found it interesting he spoke about the Ashes being the pinnacle etc, so basically he was weighing up long trips away for the next 2.5 years to reach the next one (or 4, potentially if he meant at home), and with a young family having had the career he has already it makes sense. 

    Shame as he was still bowling so well but always a skill to know when to quit before a decline.

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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,014
    If Broad was younger he could just have opted out of the India tour, which would have given him a long time off before next summer.

    I remember that in the old days, senior players would occasionally skip a winter tour for family or burnout reasons
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,897
    I'm not buying the going out on top and spending time with the family line. Sky aren't going to wait for ever and now was the right time for him to take the deal.

    if he is a sky commentator he will still be going on tour for long periods at a time. 
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 23,009
    Todds_right_hook said:
    I'm not buying the going out on top and spending time with the family line. Sky aren't going to wait for ever and now was the right time for him to take the deal.

    if he is a sky commentator he will still be going on tour for long periods at a time. 
    You can pick and choose though, and don't have to be there for warm up games, can do some UK based work etc.

    Flying over for 5 days of a Test, going home for a couple of weeks, flying back out for another Test etc isn't the same as being there for 2 or 3 months at a time.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,356
    killerandflash said:
    If Broad was younger he could just have opted out of the India tour, which would have given him a long time off before next summer.

    I remember that in the old days, senior players would occasionally skip a winter tour for family or burnout reasons
    It was an extraordinary coincidence that those senior players felt sufficiently fit and able to commit to tours in the West Indies or Australia, but had terrible burnout in the weeks leading up to the selection of tour teams to Pakistan... 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,014
    Chizz said:
    killerandflash said:
    If Broad was younger he could just have opted out of the India tour, which would have given him a long time off before next summer.

    I remember that in the old days, senior players would occasionally skip a winter tour for family or burnout reasons
    It was an extraordinary coincidence that those senior players felt sufficiently fit and able to commit to tours in the West Indies or Australia, but had terrible burnout in the weeks leading up to the selection of tour teams to Pakistan... 
    Indeed. It's amusing 20/30 years later, how the modern day senior players are regularly signing up for T20 leagues in the sub continent, including the PSL.
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,924
    As much as I miss Bumble and Lord Gower there were a couple of improvements in the commentary team - the promotion of Mark Butcher and the loss of KP
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Desperately in need of a bowler’s perspective though. Wouldn’t be surprised if Broad does some uk based studio work for India and gets into the live comms next summer 
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 23,009
    Addick Addict said:
    As much as I miss Bumble and Lord Gower there were a couple of improvements in the commentary team - the promotion of Mark Butcher and the loss of KP
    Really like Butcher.
  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,969
    PrincessFiona said:
    thickandthin63 said:
    What a way to end a career,your last hit goes for 6,and your last ball squares an ashes series.all teams need a bit of luck,Australia  got theirs with the weather,and a Bairstow"misjudgement*,we got our with Nathan Lyons getting injured,dont want to piss on our parade,but the really missed him.
    agreed about Lyons but didn't ENG had Archer out, Leach out then Pope injured and Wood only available part-way through? Not sure if AUS had any other injuries though
    Dont think thy did,but Archer had hardly played for 2 years,we had ample cover for Pope,and Ali did great .Lyons had played around 100 consecutive test matches.

  • lolwray
    lolwray Posts: 4,918
    Addick Addict said:
    As much as I miss Bumble and Lord Gower there were a couple of improvements in the commentary team - the promotion of Mark Butcher and the loss of KP
    Mark Butcher is a real gem of a commentator and I enjoyed Mark Taylor but they ought to lock Ricky Ponting in the same cupboard as KP 

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