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England Cricket 2023
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Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.3 -
I'm sure if you got to know them you might not feel the same way. Starc and his wife Alyssa Healy do a lot of work for charity. The exception might be Warner though who is probably a bit harder to get to like.johnnybev1987 said:
I actually think the opposite sorry, Starc looks smug and arrogant. For some reason i just don't really like them all.North Lower Neil said:
I think they're actually alright this time around, they seem less cocky and annoying.johnnybev1987 said:Right onto the Aussie bashing, to lift the mood.... I have to say there isn't many if any of their side who i actually like, bring back Warne, he was a loveable wanker
The bowlers especially seem pretty decent and likeable, Cummins comes across very well.1 -
Bit of Aussie luck there. Play and miss and somehow doesn’t hit the stumps.0
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Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.3 -
We have to take one of these before lunch0
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So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.0 -
How has Warner not nicked one!?0
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If England can take this deep they better at least try and salvage a draw. If they just go berserk and lose for the sake of it, it will be unforgivableChizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.0 -
🤷♂️Pelling1993 said:How has Warner not nicked one!?0 -
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
At the end of the day Australia are significantly better than England, player for player. It's frustrating because we are getting ourselves in positions to dominant the situation and throwing it away. I more surprised we are even getting into these positions considering where we were 14 months ago.2 - Sponsored links:
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In these conditions all openers can do is pray that one of those balls doesn't have their name on it. I'd hope that there is one coming soon that does.0
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They were all capitulations that took place on a morning, as per DamoNorthStand's post about this morning. Certainly the Headingley and Lord's debacles were despite, not because of, the conditions.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
For my view, England's 325 in the current Test is better than the 67, 58 and 85 in those other three. It's all a case of perspective.2 -
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Australia make it to lunch without losing a wicket. Warner swung at a couple and missed the outside edge.0
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Pelling1993 said:
If England can take this deep they better at least try and salvage a draw. If they just go berserk and lose for the sake of it, it will be unforgivableChizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
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The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?Cafc43v3r said:
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.
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Your purposefully missing the point I am making. I am listening to what they are saying because I am watching it. Your listening to what you think I am saying rather than reading what I am actually saying.Addick Addict said:
The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?Cafc43v3r said:
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.
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You are either not getting it or being your usually self in pretending not to get it for the sake of doing so. The four individuals capitulated in giving their wickets up unnecessarily. I've already highlighted how many of our batsmen in the last two innings have come in for a good time and not a long time and shot themselves and the team in the foot doing so.Chizz said:
They were all capitulations that took place on a morning, as per DamoNorthStand's post about this morning. Certainly the Headingley and Lord's debacles were despite, not because of, the conditions.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
For my view, England's 325 in the current Test is better than the 67, 58 and 85 in those other three. It's all a case of perspective.
But let's leave the final word on this to Atherton (who has forgotten more than any of us on here have ever known about batting) and what he has just said on Sky:
"I think if you go back to last summer, England's approach was one of calculated aggression. Here it seemed to be "all out aggression" no matter what and I think that they were on the wrong side of just being reckless, this morning in particular with the dismissal of Brook."2 -
Plus ca change0
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It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests!
But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect.
I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!2 - Sponsored links:
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Sorry but you've lost me there. I'm not purposefully missing anything. I am saying that individuals gave up their wickets through being reckless.Cafc43v3r said:
Your purposefully missing the point I am making. I am listening to what they are saying because I am watching it. Your listening to what you think I am saying rather than reading what I am actually saying.Addick Addict said:
The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?Cafc43v3r said:
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.0 -
Maybe that's why, so far, he's been enormously successful?carly burn said:It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests!
But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect.
I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
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Spot on.carly burn said:It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests!
But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect.
I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…1 -
Haven't watched this morning but looks like the match was lost in that ridiculous 45 minute spell yesterday, when our batsmen forget that they were playing test cricket.0
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australia win the morning, and with that, possibly the ashes.0
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That really isn't so. You can play positive cricket without being reckless. Our batsman all have the ability to recognise what a ball that can be pulled safely and one that can't. They chose to go for everything. As it happens Ponting is doing a master class on doing so right now on Sky.Callumcafc said:
Spot on.carly burn said:It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests!
But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect.
I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…2 -
If "getting it" means discussing something that is not relevant either to Damo's post or to my response to it, then you're right, I am not getting it.Addick Addict said:
You are either not getting it or being your usually self in pretending not to get it for the sake of doing so. The four individuals capitulated in giving their wickets up unnecessarily. I've already highlighted how many of our batsmen in the last two innings have come in for a good time and not a long time and shot themselves and the team in the foot doing so.Chizz said:
They were all capitulations that took place on a morning, as per DamoNorthStand's post about this morning. Certainly the Headingley and Lord's debacles were despite, not because of, the conditions.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
For my view, England's 325 in the current Test is better than the 67, 58 and 85 in those other three. It's all a case of perspective.
But let's leave the final word on this to Atherton (who has forgotten more than any of us on here have ever known about batting) and what he has just said on Sky:
"I think if you go back to last summer, England's approach was one of calculated aggression. Here it seemed to be "all out aggression" no matter what and I think that they were on the wrong side of just being reckless, this morning in particular with the dismissal of Brook."
What I am "getting" - and, dare I say it, you're deliberately "not getting" - is that, while this morning's capitulation was bad, there are other capitulations on other mornings which have also been bad. And, happily, positively, encouragingly, each of those, far worse capitulations resulted not in a defeat for England.
However, you have made some accurate points which are outside this topic. But they're covered elsewhere, at considerable length on this thread, over the last few hours and days.
Damo is right to say that this morning was one of the worst ("most useless") mornings from England in recent Tests. It's noteworthy that other recent mornings have been far, far worse. Many of which were before the phrase "Bazball" was invented.0 -
What I really find amazing is that some on here were telling us how Bazball was going to beat the Aussies but now it's not working because it has become reckless the insinuation is that we have to play that way all the time. We are losing this series playing recklessly AND we aren't even scoring much faster in this Test than the Aussies are. There is minimal difference between a RR of 4.13 and one of 4.25 but there is a massive difference in terms of 100 runs. And we won the toss AND had the better of the batting conditions too.4
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But I never said they hadn't, your arguing a different point to the one I was making so I won't bother any more.Addick Addict said:
Sorry but you've lost me there. I'm not purposefully missing anything. I am saying that individuals gave up their wickets through being reckless.Cafc43v3r said:
Your purposefully missing the point I am making. I am listening to what they are saying because I am watching it. Your listening to what you think I am saying rather than reading what I am actually saying.Addick Addict said:
The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?Cafc43v3r said:
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.0 -
Cafc43v3r said:
Your purposefully missing the point I am making. I am listening to what they are saying because I am watching it. Your listening to what you think I am saying rather than reading what I am actually saying.Addick Addict said:
The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?Cafc43v3r said:
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.Addick Addict said:
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?Cafc43v3r said:
Yeah but Bazball...Chizz said:
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs.DamoNorthStand said:One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs.
Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.
I agree with you and Chizz and how we have been awful in the past and got beaten up by the Aussies at times when being timid. For balance we did win 1 in 17 until Brendon McCallum and Ben Stokes decided to put entertainment first and always go on the attack, even if you end up losing. 11 wins in 14 including the winning in Pakistan was great.
But if you had listened to two Ashes winning captains at lunchtime: Cook and Vaughan, about how this all out attack can look 'casual' (Vaughan) and that when on top, stay on top, and most importantly, recognized when you are on top (cook)
If you want to criticize their comments then feel free.
Baz ball needs to be honed, not go back to a team of Boycott's. (Soapboxsam)
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