Sport England report on transgender women
Comments
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I'm exaggerating the point to make it.aliwibble said:
WTAF are you talking about Chizz? The marginal gains from having a lighter cox in a men's 8 are nothing like the same as having the additional power of a male rower in a female boat.Chizz said:If it's ok for a women to be a cox in a men's boat race (for what it's worth, I think it is), then, by extension, it should be ok for men to row in the women's boat race, since their bodies are likely to be more ideally matched to the requirements of the sport (for what it's worth, I don't think this is ok).1 -
PaddyP17 said:
Laurel Hubbard competing as a trans woman in a woman's sport on the world's biggest stage is a hugely important landmark.stop_shouting said:
Totally disagree. It’s like you’re looking for anti Trans sentiment. Don’t worry about buzzwords like “blanket solutions”. What they have recommended is a solution. You CAN have solutions to these difficult situations. Granted, it won’t please everyone but it doesn’t have to be binary. I’m sure you’ll agree that the Laurel Hubbard situation benefited no one. It wasn’t progress and Laurel said afterward that they just wanted to go home.PaddyP17 said:
Look at the report, which literally says there is no blanket solution. I mean, it literally says that. And it's okay to say there may be many varied solutions sport by sport, etc. I am uncomfortable with the idea of MtF trans women playing full contact sport in many scenarios tbf.stop_shouting said:
Nonsense. Look at Sport England’s recommendations. Is that not a solution?Chizz said:
Physicality is absolutely at the forefront of this issue. Take two people who are matched in terms of presence, knowledge, understanding and authority, one male, one female, the only difference will be the physical size and, critically, weight of the two people. What happens? The female is usually chosen over the male, precisely because of her physicality and the gender-related size and weight of her body.SoundAsa£ said:
Physicality is not an issue in that instance.Chizz said:
Would you ban a female cox in a men's rowing eight?Bedsaddick said:Anyone born a man should never be able to compete in women’s sport for obvious reasons and out of fairness it shouldn’t happen the other way round either .Just my opinion.
In your scenario ("...out of fairness it shouldn't happen the other way round either") then men are going to be overlooked for the role of cox by women. Women's bodies are ideally matched to the requirements of the role of cox.
If it's ok for a women to be a cox in a men's boat race (for what it's worth, I think it is), then, by extension, it should be ok for men to row in the women's boat race, since their bodies are likely to be more ideally matched to the requirements of the sport (for what it's worth, I don't think this is ok).
In short, there's no blanket solution to the issue of gender barriers in sport.
I'm also incredibly disappointed at the editorialising by the BBC headline: "Transgender inclusion, fairness and safety often cannot co-exist", says major review
This - if you didn't know it was about sport - just sounds anti-trans. And I think it's probably deliberate, given the BBC's inexcusable coverage of things like Tavistock.
There is an undercurrent of subtle - and some not so subtle - anti-trans sentiment throughout mainstream media at the moment, and it's absolutely growing. And it is really infuriating to read.
Was it... right? I don't know enough to pass comment. But I think it probably benefited trans people, who are grossly underrepresented in sport, to have some visibility - despite the attendant brouhaha.She had to pass a load of testing to compete in the Olympics to prove she didn't have excessive testosterone. She did record a lift and a Brit got the silver which most people weren't as bothered about. You also get some trans v female MMA and Boxing matches in hick promotions which seem to just take place to wind people up.
It's a complex situation where people who aren't experts believe they are. I think Huskaris has summed it up for me.
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Your right but I think it's so likley that we can consider it a fact that no trans man is ever going to be a world class athlete?PaddyP17 said:
Laurel Hubbard competing as a trans woman in a woman's sport on the world's biggest stage is a hugely important landmark.stop_shouting said:
Totally disagree. It’s like you’re looking for anti Trans sentiment. Don’t worry about buzzwords like “blanket solutions”. What they have recommended is a solution. You CAN have solutions to these difficult situations. Granted, it won’t please everyone but it doesn’t have to be binary. I’m sure you’ll agree that the Laurel Hubbard situation benefited no one. It wasn’t progress and Laurel said afterward that they just wanted to go home.PaddyP17 said:
Look at the report, which literally says there is no blanket solution. I mean, it literally says that. And it's okay to say there may be many varied solutions sport by sport, etc. I am uncomfortable with the idea of MtF trans women playing full contact sport in many scenarios tbf.stop_shouting said:
Nonsense. Look at Sport England’s recommendations. Is that not a solution?Chizz said:
Physicality is absolutely at the forefront of this issue. Take two people who are matched in terms of presence, knowledge, understanding and authority, one male, one female, the only difference will be the physical size and, critically, weight of the two people. What happens? The female is usually chosen over the male, precisely because of her physicality and the gender-related size and weight of her body.SoundAsa£ said:
Physicality is not an issue in that instance.Chizz said:
Would you ban a female cox in a men's rowing eight?Bedsaddick said:Anyone born a man should never be able to compete in women’s sport for obvious reasons and out of fairness it shouldn’t happen the other way round either .Just my opinion.
In your scenario ("...out of fairness it shouldn't happen the other way round either") then men are going to be overlooked for the role of cox by women. Women's bodies are ideally matched to the requirements of the role of cox.
If it's ok for a women to be a cox in a men's boat race (for what it's worth, I think it is), then, by extension, it should be ok for men to row in the women's boat race, since their bodies are likely to be more ideally matched to the requirements of the sport (for what it's worth, I don't think this is ok).
In short, there's no blanket solution to the issue of gender barriers in sport.
I'm also incredibly disappointed at the editorialising by the BBC headline: "Transgender inclusion, fairness and safety often cannot co-exist", says major review
This - if you didn't know it was about sport - just sounds anti-trans. And I think it's probably deliberate, given the BBC's inexcusable coverage of things like Tavistock.
There is an undercurrent of subtle - and some not so subtle - anti-trans sentiment throughout mainstream media at the moment, and it's absolutely growing. And it is really infuriating to read.
Was it... right? I don't know enough to pass comment. But I think it probably benefited trans people, who are grossly underrepresented in sport, to have some visibility - despite the attendant brouhaha.
If you are a woman transitioning to a man you give up any chance you had of playing any elite sport. Is it so wrong that it works the other way round? I don't know, my gut feeling though is it isn't.
That's before you consider potential abuse of any rules that are introduced.0 -
Funnily enough a male won a gold medal at a woman's event in the Tokyo Olympics.0
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https://www.iwf.org/competition-report
Competitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
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Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
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Why does it have to be about right (or left wing)? Is someone not allowed to have an opinion about something without it having to be right/left or whatever wing?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
Too much politics in sport and too much pigeon-holing opinions; we need to be more open-minded11 -
Are right wing viewpoints less valid than left wing viewpoints, or do we need to have viewpoints that don't have a point of view?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
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The testosterone thing in male/female sport is a complete red herring. I'm not getting into this here, because I suspect the vast majority of people have latched onto it as a convenient way to hoist their banner and call anyone who disagrees with it a terf, but politics aside, there are absolutely vast differences in athletic potential and physiological build between male and female athletes - and simply saying that it's all down to testosterone and inhibiting it is a fair way of levelling the playing field is utterly disingenuous.20
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This.SporadicAddick said:
Are right wing viewpoints less valid than left wing viewpoints, or do we need to have viewpoints that don't have a point of view?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
I'm left of centre but generally concur with this right wing think tank!6 -
You've lost the plot.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
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WTF????SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
1 -
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.11 -
I am alllll about them trans rights and I think the bathroom debates are horseshit but I do struggle with trans women in women's sport. My current thinking is that it's something that can really only be judged on a case by case basis. It definitely presents more of a problem in power sports than skill or endurance ones.1
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How can someone nearly always get it wrong?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
10 -
And driving sportsLeuth said:I am alllll about them trans rights and I think the bathroom debates are horseshit but I do struggle with trans women in women's sport. My current thinking is that it's something that can really only be judged on a case by case basis. It definitely presents more of a problem in power sports than skill or endurance ones.2 -
I generally agree with what you say.PrincessFiona said:
Why does it have to be about right (or left wing)? Is someone not allowed to have an opinion about something without it having to be right/left or whatever wing?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
Too much politics in sport and too much pigeon-holing opinions; we need to be more open-minded
I just think the website is garbage. You could have posted your opinion about transgender athletes in sport and it holds as much weight as that website.
The 'denial of women' in female sports don't really have enough transgender athletes within the sport to really look like it's having a major effect. We don't have full transgender female football teams winning the Women's Premier League etc.
1 or 2 transgender athletes are getting a huge amount of coverage. Far outweighing how big the actual 'issue' is.2 -
https://www.outsports.com/2021/2/22/22296155/fallon-fox-trans-mma-fighter-lie-inclusion-misleadingbigstemarra said:
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
1 -
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Here are a few of my viewpoints:bigstemarra said:
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
1) It's probably not safe, inherently;
2) Fallon Fox lost to Ashlee Evans-Smith, a cis woman, in one of her six fights;
3) A fractured orbital is a not-uncommon injury;
4) She hasn't fought since 2014, so it is potentially slightly disingenuous to bring up what appears to be a resolved thing.
I struggle immensely with the issue of trans women in sports but hysteria's not the way to combat it.4 -
I have posted several times about my opinions on it. I posted about the report as just read about it.SELR_addicks said:
I generally agree with what you say.PrincessFiona said:
Why does it have to be about right (or left wing)? Is someone not allowed to have an opinion about something without it having to be right/left or whatever wing?SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
Too much politics in sport and too much pigeon-holing opinions; we need to be more open-minded
I just think the website is garbage. You could have posted your opinion about transgender athletes in sport and it holds as much weight as that website.
The 'denial of women' in female sports don't really have enough transgender athletes within the sport to really look like it's having a major effect. We don't have full transgender female football teams winning the Women's Premier League etc.
1 or 2 transgender athletes are getting a huge amount of coverage. Far outweighing how big the actual 'issue' is.
Why does everything and every opinion have to politicised and right/left/whatever wing though? People can have independent thoughts and opinions that don't need to be pigeon-holed4 -
Nice try, but another fail.SELR_addicks said:
https://www.outsports.com/2021/2/22/22296155/fallon-fox-trans-mma-fighter-lie-inclusion-misleadingbigstemarra said:
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
'The orbits are bony structures of the skull that house the globe, extraocular muscles, nerves, blood vessels, lacrimal apparatus, and adipose tissue. Each orbit protects the globe, while the supportive tissues allow the globe to move in three dimensions (horizontal, vertical, and torsional)'
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/So, part of the skull was broken. All this article is trying to do is justify mean beating the shit out of women.
Are you also OK with domestic violence or is only alright when the male perpetrator puts on a dress?
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Pot meet kettle, Paddy.
You are one of the principal bed-wetters hereabouts when it comes to the latest woke moral panic.
Still, it's interesting to see who is making excuses for male on female violence on this thread. Very interesting.1 -
Wtf is a "cis woman"?
Is it the same thing as a woman?2 -
Erm, yes.Off_it said:Wtf is a "cis woman"?
Is it the same thing as a woman?
It appears to be what was once known as a 'woman'.
Now f**k off and check your privilege, ya cis-scum.
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Are you assuming my race and gender, girlfriend?bigstemarra said:
Erm, yes.Off_it said:Wtf is a "cis woman"?
Is it the same thing as a woman?
It appears to be what was once known as a 'woman'.
Now f**k off and check your privilege, ya cis-scum.4 -
No it's merely pointing out the reality of combat sports.bigstemarra said:
Nice try, but another fail.SELR_addicks said:
https://www.outsports.com/2021/2/22/22296155/fallon-fox-trans-mma-fighter-lie-inclusion-misleadingbigstemarra said:
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
'The orbits are bony structures of the skull that house the globe, extraocular muscles, nerves, blood vessels, lacrimal apparatus, and adipose tissue. Each orbit protects the globe, while the supportive tissues allow the globe to move in three dimensions (horizontal, vertical, and torsional)'
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/So, part of the skull was broken. All this article is trying to do is justify mean beating the shit out of women.
Are you also OK with domestic violence or is only alright when the male perpetrator puts on a dress?
0 -
Given the most vocal opponents of including transwomen in female sport are women, calling their objections "hysteria" is at best a really poor choice of words.PaddyP17 said:
Here are a few of my viewpoints:bigstemarra said:It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
1) It's probably not safe, inherently;
2) Fallon Fox lost to Ashlee Evans-Smith, a cis woman, in one of her six fights;
3) A fractured orbital is a not-uncommon injury;
4) She hasn't fought since 2014, so it is potentially slightly disingenuous to bring up what appears to be a resolved thing.
I struggle immensely with the issue of trans women in sports but hysteria's not the way to combat it.
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I think you count the number of CL members who are OK with domestic violence on the fingers of one ear.bigstemarra said:
Nice try, but another fail.SELR_addicks said:
https://www.outsports.com/2021/2/22/22296155/fallon-fox-trans-mma-fighter-lie-inclusion-misleadingbigstemarra said:
It isn't about right/left; it's about the right of women to compete in a fair and, more importantly, safe environment.SELR_addicks said:
Seems like a right-wing think tank that aren't bringing anything new to the debate. Just typical right-wing view points.PrincessFiona said:https://www.iwf.org/competition-reportCompetitive sport is a zero-sum game where some athletes make the cut, and others do not; someone wins, and others lose. In a zero-sum competition, the inclusion of male-bodied athletes in women’s sport inevitably denies opportunities to female athletes.
As the number of male-bodied athletes seeking to compete on women’s teams and in women’s events grows, the risks to female athletes also grow. Claims to the contrary deny science, defy logic, and undermine Title IX.
Independent Women’s Law Center and Independent Women’s Forum released a new report titled, Competition: Title IX, Male-Bodied Athletes, and the Threat To Women’s Sports.
The report is available to download
There's a transgender MMA fighter who used to be a special forces soldier in the US army who has been beating the shit out of women in the ring. No amount of hormone therapy can fix the physiological advantage here, or in any physical sport for that matter.
Look at the following example:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-when-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox-broke-opponent-s-skull-mma-fight
Seriously, do you think that this fair or safe?
I think that it is nothing short of insane, quite frankly.
'The orbits are bony structures of the skull that house the globe, extraocular muscles, nerves, blood vessels, lacrimal apparatus, and adipose tissue. Each orbit protects the globe, while the supportive tissues allow the globe to move in three dimensions (horizontal, vertical, and torsional)'
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/So, part of the skull was broken. All this article is trying to do is justify mean beating the shit out of women.
Are you also OK with domestic violence or is only alright when the male perpetrator puts on a dress?
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