Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Birmingham v Charlton | Post-match thread | 15/07/2020
Comments
-
I can't see how Sarr is at fault for their goal either.0
-
Sarr stops moving as soon as the ball reaches Dillon whereas Jutkiewicz keeps moving and so gets there first. If he'd anticipated the save like Jutkiewicz did he'd have cleared it.Leuth said:Watching that goal again, everyone makes a small error (although I can't see how you can fault Sarr, he's never getting there ahead of Jutkiewicz) - perhaps the most culpable is Lockyer, even, that ball should never get past him, and actually Phillips, I hate to say, could have done a lot better0 -
Terrible defending.
Pratley gets passed to easily (great time for a hamstring to go), Matthews jumps over it, Lockyer doesn’t reach it, Pearce doesn’t make a good enough challenge, Dillon spills it and Naby’s man loses him.
5 -
Remember that that gif is in slow-motion. It all happened very fastLeeds_Addick said:
Sarr stops moving as soon as the ball reaches Dillon whereas Jutkiewicz keeps moving and so gets there first. If he'd anticipated the save like Jutkiewicz did he'd have cleared it.Leuth said:Watching that goal again, everyone makes a small error (although I can't see how you can fault Sarr, he's never getting there ahead of Jutkiewicz) - perhaps the most culpable is Lockyer, even, that ball should never get past him, and actually Phillips, I hate to say, could have done a lot better2 -
I’ve read a lot on here and across social media about poor subs and bad tactics, but for me the problem is we don’t score enough goals. We concede late on because we never kill off games by scoring a second or third. We're in the bottom three for goals scored and mid table for goals conceded.
Bowyer gets a League 1 quality squad competing, we're organised in way which means most games are very tight. When we lose it's usually by 1 or 2 goals, and sometimes the second is conceded because we have to chase an equaliser.
I struggle to see many other managers we could attract doing a better job. We don't have the players to be more attacking, or the subs to change the game (unless we leave Williams and Doughty on the bench, which makes starting a game harder). It's not so much that he's making the same mistakes, he is very limited by the options he has.
Without enough quality attacking options on the bench we naturally sit back and try to hold on. When the opposition can bring on 5 subs we can either stick with our better but tiring players or put on fresh legs who don’t offer the same attacking threat.
I'm still 100% behind Bowyer but that doesn't mean I think he doesn't make mistakes and can't be critisized, I can just be pretty certain that replacing him won't make things better unless it's combined with a takeover and proper investment into the squad. It's not just a League 1 budget that he's had to deal with, but a huge injury crisis, three sets of owners and everything that came with that, losing Taylor, Gallagher and Leko (3 of our 4 top goalscorers), Solly the club captain refusing to play, having to sign players days before the season and probably more we don't even know about. That's far from your average relegation battle, but despite all this staying up is still in our hands. I'm not confident, but that's because of our lack of goals, rather than Bowyer not being capable.14 -
Yeah that's true. Dillon doesn't have to make the save if Albie doesn't lose his man anyway.Leuth said:
Remember that that gif is in slow-motion. It all happened very fastLeeds_Addick said:
Sarr stops moving as soon as the ball reaches Dillon whereas Jutkiewicz keeps moving and so gets there first. If he'd anticipated the save like Jutkiewicz did he'd have cleared it.Leuth said:Watching that goal again, everyone makes a small error (although I can't see how you can fault Sarr, he's never getting there ahead of Jutkiewicz) - perhaps the most culpable is Lockyer, even, that ball should never get past him, and actually Phillips, I hate to say, could have done a lot better0 -
Totally agree and very fair comparison @ColinTatColinTat said:
It isn't ridiculous all previous managers had access and funds to get in players from the above division or same division. Even in fallow years like 96-97 we signed O'Connell and Gary Poole. Curbishley was able to sign players like John Bumstead and Steve Gatting who'd played in the top leagues and were defensively solid. None of them had to operate on a budget like Bowyer's is comparitive to his division rivals, and yet Bowyer's teams are much better to watch barring some of the best Curbishley years. Powell did not have a small budget on promotion, and they all stated they were signing for the championship. If you disagree that's fine, just use a bit of critical thinking more watertight than a Soviet submarine.Dazzler21 said:
Don't be ridiculous.ColinTat said:When before did Bowyer want to settle for a 1-0 win? He's doing it now because we don't look like scoring one often, so we have to be defensively solid. To me he's the best manager we've had in my lifetime. It's a bloody shame we wasted this squad, and it's success wasn't capitalised on. I don't blame Bowyer for any of Charlton's failings.
If you're going to sit back you need an outlet to sprint the ball into the corners to hold it up if you want to hold out. Like we did in those first 3 fixtures since the return. Since then we've reverted to post October's style of sitting deep and offering ourselves no outlet. That's Bowyer's and Jackson's choice to not have a man up field to break when we're defending deep.
Curbishley was a far better manager, Powell I'd argue did better though potentially with fewer hurdles, he did however still have a small budget.
At our best this year, we've played good sides off the park for decent spells of matches - with a style that I hadn't seen since those best years for Curbs and wouldn't have believed possible of a Charlton side in this League and on no budget.
Regardless of League next season, the one thing we can be thankful to RD for is appointing Bow as manager. Nobody is saying he is now a better manager than Curbs but AC has his learning curve to go up as well during his 15 years in charge and, at the same stage in their managerial careers, Bow's making a pretty favourable comparison. If we're lucky enough to get the chance to witness first-hand his progression as a manager over the next 5 years, I'll be ecstatic.
1 -
Same here. I don't think I have seen anybody say they want Bowyer sacked. They are pointing out a flaw they perceive to be the case. And it is a flaw that many were predicting could cost us before the game. I think Powell was a great manager for us but he had the same flaw. Many managers do and maybe that is what pressure does to them.Scoham said:I’ve read a lot on here and across social media about poor subs and bad tactics, but for me the problem is we don’t score enough goals. We concede late on because we never kill off games by scoring a second or third. We're in the bottom three for goals scored and mid table for goals conceded.
Bowyer gets a League 1 quality squad competing, we're organised in way which means most games are very tight. When we lose it's usually by 1 or 2 goals, and sometimes the second is conceded because we have to chase an equaliser.
I struggle to see many other managers we could attract doing a better job. We don't have the players to be more attacking, or the subs to change the game (unless we leave Williams and Doughty on the bench, which makes starting a game harder). It's not so much that he's making the same mistakes, he is very limited by the options he has.
Without enough quality attacking options on the bench we naturally sit back and try to hold on. When the opposition can bring on 5 subs we can either stick with our better but tiring players or put on fresh legs who don’t offer the same attacking threat.
I'm still 100% behind Bowyer but that doesn't mean I think he doesn't make mistakes and can't be critisized, I can just be pretty certain that replacing him won't make things better unless it's combined with a takeover and proper investment into the squad. It's not just a League 1 budget that he's had to deal with, but a huge injury crisis, three sets of owners and everything that came with that, losing Taylor, Gallagher and Leko (3 of our 4 top goalscorers), Solly the club captain refusing to play, having to sign players days before the season and probably more we don't even know about. That's far from your average relegation battle, but despite all this staying up is still in our hands. I'm not confident, but that's because of our lack of goals, rather than Bowyer not being capable.0 -
Without trying to scapegoat anyone, struggling to work out what Purrington was doing positionally, seems to get stuck in no mans land in the 6 yard area and can't then clear the ball before it crosses the line, hindsight is a wonderful thing but would've preferred him closer to the goal line after the first shot.1
-
I think you blame Lockyer a bit for not blocking, also Phillips for pushing out and I agree, Purrington should have sensed the danger and sprinted behind the line then faced play covering Phillips. So three minor mistakes that together added up to a major mistake and cost us the goal.MattF said:Without trying to scapegoat anyone, struggling to work out what Purrington was doing positionally, seems to get stuck in no mans land in the 6 yard area and can't then clear the ball before it crosses the line, hindsight is a wonderful thing but would've preferred him closer to the goal line after the first shot.0 - Sponsored links:
-
I take your point but as I said I felt that starting 11 was about as attacking as he could line up with. There could be a question about whether Doughty needs better conditioning to last or if he needs better game management. On the point about being an attacking threat, I feel that some people still look down on the full back position, it's an incredibly important role in the modern game and look at some of the best sides, they all have attacking full backs. Just starting someone in a certain position does not necessarily make them less of a threat it's what their role and instructions are that do.killerandflash said:
Shuttling up and down the wing as an attacking "Liverpool style" full back is much more tiring than playing just as a winger, maybe Doughty would be able to play for the full 90 if he was given more of a free attacking role? He was clearly our main danger man yesterday, surely the team could have been built around him a bit?colthe3rd said:Not sure I understand the desperation to play Doughty at LW. Last night was about as attacking a side as Bowyer could put out. Doughty playing as a wing back got forward plenty, his heat map shows he spent most of his time in the opposition half. Williams naturally cuts inside a lot so that usually will give more space for Doughty to run in to.
I do wonder sometimes if people have watched football before.
And there was definitely something wrong with the shape on the left hand side, as Pearce constantly ended up hoofing it long and losing possession.
I still think we set up perfectly for what we needed to do last night, McGeady and Williams both looked dangerous, Doughty got forward a lot, created a goal and was generally our most dangerous player from their point of view. I think there are questions about the subs but I think some are going a bit OTT but that's most likely to do with emotions of last night and yes in the past Bowyer has made some real cock ups with his subs.
As I've said in the thread before we still nearly scored a second after the subs, Aneke looked better than he has done recently. Purrington replacing Doughty who was knackered as Bowyer says, not too much of a problem, fresh legs and he's a decent enough defender. Pratley wasn't good though but that's a bit of a surprise given he has been one of our most important players so it's hard to mark Bowyer down on that. Realistically if we were all in Bowyer's position would we have not tried to tighten things up? You know we struggle to score, you know Birmingham were going to throw everything at getting an equaliser? Can you imagine the pelters he'd have got if he didn't replace tired players or if he kept going for a second? Damned if he does.1 -
Lyle Taylor 2014/15 Season (age 24) (Scottish Premiership & English League 1)Chunes said:"Bonne could be better than Taylor"
Honestly... What?
Played 40 - GS 10 - Assists 4
Macaulay Bonne 2019/20 Season (age 24) (English Championship)
Played 30 - GS 10 - Assists 3
I'd say Bonne has done pretty well this season and like Taylor can learn the other parts of the game that catapulted Taylor, Don't know if he can be better, but could be as good as one day.
For reference
13/14 (age 23)
Taylor (Scottish Champ) P34, GS 24, A5
18/19 (age 23)
Bonne (NL) P46, GS 23, A4
12/13 (age 22)
Taylor (EFL L1 & L2) P26, GS 2, A2
17/18 (age 22)
Bonne (NL) P44, GS22, A5
Career
Taylor P386, GS 142, A53 (0.367 gpg)
Bonne P221, GS 71, A13 (0.321 gpg)
It actually shows that at this stage, Bonne is more capable of scoring at a higher level than Taylor was at the same age assuming League 1 = Scottish Premier level.1 -
A bit of basic defending required there, he should be reading play to get to that back post to reduce shooting options anyway.ForeverAddickted said:
Its a shame Purrington doesnt drop back and stand on the line just in case eitherLeeds_Addick said:
Apologies for the poor quality gif but hopefully you can just make out Albie once again losing players running into the box.
Two of them stroll past him, one gets the initial shot off and the other ends up scoring. Nabys positioning also leaves a lot to be desired.1 -
I think Bonne is a goalscorer but he doesn't always look effective. He gets chances and misses quite a few of them, but the point is he gets them. He has scored two goals in three games when the team has scored two goals in three games.4
-
Everyone is saying the forward didn't track back,the midfielder didn't do this and we should have had a defender on the line,truth is Dillon didn't hold on to the ball or he should have pushed it out for a corner,I am sure he made the same mistake last week against a side I have already forgotten about2
-
I think Lee is a good manager, but just read his quote from the CAFC website:
“We can’t see a game out, we don’t manage it well. Other teams they manage the game better going into injury time, they slow things down, they get fouls, they buy fouls, we don’t do that.
Then why take Jonny Williams off he gets fouled the most and surely could have lasted longer!0 -
Surely if Purrington goes with his right foot here he can clear it? Or maybe I’m expecting too muchLeeds_Addick said:
Apologies for the poor quality gif but hopefully you can just make out Albie once again losing players running into the box.
Two of them stroll past him, one gets the initial shot off and the other ends up scoring. Nabys positioning also leaves a lot to be desired.0 -
You are quite right, but then Dillon can't be expected to keep clean sheets on his own we can't expect him to get it right 25 times a game and that is why it is a Team Sport. Spilling the ball is definitely a bit of a weakness of his.doronron said:Everyone is saying the forward didn't track back,the midfielder didn't do this and we should have had a defender on the line, truth is Dillon didn't hold on to the ball or he should have pushed it out for a corner,I am sure he made the same mistake last week against a side I have already forgotten about
We must remember he also saved a penalty and two other almost certain goals last night as well as a ton of routine saves.4 -
No he couldnt last much longer hence why he was taken offSilverdreammachine said:I think Lee is a good manager, but just read his quote from the CAFC website:
“We can’t see a game out, we don’t manage it well. Other teams they manage the game better going into injury time, they slow things down, they get fouls, they buy fouls, we don’t do that.
Then why take Jonny Williams off he gets fouled the most and surely could have lasted longer!1 -
Didn't we say the same about Pope, but he done alright nowDazzler21 said:
You are quite right, but then Dillon can't be expected to keep clean sheets on his own we can't expect him to get it right 25 times a game and that is why it is a Team Sport. Spilling the ball is definitely a bit of a weakness of his.doronron said:Everyone is saying the forward didn't track back,the midfielder didn't do this and we should have had a defender on the line, truth is Dillon didn't hold on to the ball or he should have pushed it out for a corner,I am sure he made the same mistake last week against a side I have already forgotten about
We must remember he also saved a penalty and two other almost certain goals last night as well as a ton of routine saves.2 - Sponsored links:
-
Certainly not a big complaint, as I say if we reduce the number of shots he has to deal with, you reduce the likelihood of a mistake.ross1 said:
Didn't we say the same about Pope, but he done alright nowDazzler21 said:
You are quite right, but then Dillon can't be expected to keep clean sheets on his own we can't expect him to get it right 25 times a game and that is why it is a Team Sport. Spilling the ball is definitely a bit of a weakness of his.doronron said:Everyone is saying the forward didn't track back,the midfielder didn't do this and we should have had a defender on the line, truth is Dillon didn't hold on to the ball or he should have pushed it out for a corner,I am sure he made the same mistake last week against a side I have already forgotten about
We must remember he also saved a penalty and two other almost certain goals last night as well as a ton of routine saves.0 -
we start slow and concede, we finish in tatters and concede .. the middle bit is all right other than a lack of goals .. like the waltz: slow, slow, quick quick slow .. we will just survive this season .. for the next one, sort out the start and finish chaps0
-
Phillips definitely should have done much betterLeuth said:Watching that goal again, everyone makes a small error (although I can't see how you can fault Sarr, he's never getting there ahead of Jutkiewicz) - perhaps the most culpable is Lockyer, even, that ball should never get past him, and actually Phillips, I hate to say, could have done a lot better0 -
I don't understand how any of our players can not have the legs for 90 minutes when they now get an additional break and breather in each half.1
-
he is like too many in this team, moments of brilliance mixed with too many seconds of clumsinessCroydon said:
Phillips definitely should have done much betterLeuth said:Watching that goal again, everyone makes a small error (although I can't see how you can fault Sarr, he's never getting there ahead of Jutkiewicz) - perhaps the most culpable is Lockyer, even, that ball should never get past him, and actually Phillips, I hate to say, could have done a lot better
0 -
Is that the Thomas Driesen method of player comparison?Dazzler21 said:
Lyle Taylor 2014/15 Season (age 24) (Scottish Premiership & English League 1)Chunes said:"Bonne could be better than Taylor"
Honestly... What?
Played 40 - GS 10 - Assists 4
Macaulay Bonne 2019/20 Season (age 24) (English Championship)
Played 30 - GS 10 - Assists 3
I'd say Bonne has done pretty well this season and like Taylor can learn the other parts of the game that catapulted Taylor, Don't know if he can be better, but could be as good as one day.
For reference
13/14 (age 23)
Taylor (Scottish Champ) P34, GS 24, A5
18/19 (age 23)
Bonne (NL) P46, GS 23, A4
12/13 (age 22)
Taylor (EFL L1 & L2) P26, GS 2, A2
17/18 (age 22)
Bonne (NL) P44, GS22, A5
Career
Taylor P386, GS 142, A53 (0.367 gpg)
Bonne P221, GS 71, A13 (0.321 gpg)
It actually shows that at this stage, Bonne is more capable of scoring at a higher level than Taylor was at the same age assuming League 1 = Scottish Premier level.1 -
Do you have a better way of comparing their ability when Taylor was Bonne's age?Chunes said:
Is that the Thomas Driesen method of player comparison?Dazzler21 said:
Lyle Taylor 2014/15 Season (age 24) (Scottish Premiership & English League 1)Chunes said:"Bonne could be better than Taylor"
Honestly... What?
Played 40 - GS 10 - Assists 4
Macaulay Bonne 2019/20 Season (age 24) (English Championship)
Played 30 - GS 10 - Assists 3
I'd say Bonne has done pretty well this season and like Taylor can learn the other parts of the game that catapulted Taylor, Don't know if he can be better, but could be as good as one day.
For reference
13/14 (age 23)
Taylor (Scottish Champ) P34, GS 24, A5
18/19 (age 23)
Bonne (NL) P46, GS 23, A4
12/13 (age 22)
Taylor (EFL L1 & L2) P26, GS 2, A2
17/18 (age 22)
Bonne (NL) P44, GS22, A5
Career
Taylor P386, GS 142, A53 (0.367 gpg)
Bonne P221, GS 71, A13 (0.321 gpg)
It actually shows that at this stage, Bonne is more capable of scoring at a higher level than Taylor was at the same age assuming League 1 = Scottish Premier level.
Let's see where he is in 5/6 years shall we. That's the only other way to compare without reviewing all 607 games footage of their time on the pitch. It is no doubt Taylor is much better right now.0 -
How dare you let facts get in the way of digging out the manager 😉ForeverAddickted said:
No he couldnt last much longer hence why he was taken offSilverdreammachine said:I think Lee is a good manager, but just read his quote from the CAFC website:
“We can’t see a game out, we don’t manage it well. Other teams they manage the game better going into injury time, they slow things down, they get fouls, they buy fouls, we don’t do that.
Then why take Jonny Williams off he gets fouled the most and surely could have lasted longer!3 -
You can blame Lee all you want, but by Christ that is one sh*te goal to concede. Heartbreaking.Leeds_Addick said:
Apologies for the poor quality gif but hopefully you can just make out Albie once again losing players running into the box.
Two of them stroll past him, one gets the initial shot off and the other ends up scoring. Nabys positioning also leaves a lot to be desired.6 -
It's not Albie's job to be marking their centre forward Jutkiewicz, and Harlee Dean the other player (a CB) wouldn't have been his man either. We had enough players in the 6 yard box to deal with it, if the ball had rebounded out towards the penalty spot he would have been perfectly positioned to hoof the ball out and everyone would have said what a great position he was in.Leeds_Addick said:
Apologies for the poor quality gif but hopefully you can just make out Albie once again losing players running into the box.
Two of them stroll past him, one gets the initial shot off and the other ends up scoring. Nabys positioning also leaves a lot to be desired.
It's a collective defensive shambles really. 2 players failing to prevent the cross, which somehow evades 2 other players. It should have been blocked before it got near the goal
3
