Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40

Its a shame too as that penultimate game at the Valley between Charlton and Wigan has just become a serious game rather than hoping that the latter are on the beach 

I suspect Wigan have taken the decision to take the hit now given that they are only 4 points from safety after the deduction and it is realistic they can pull that back considering the form they are in. Just outside the relegation places,they are 4 points from Hull 5 points from Stoke and 6 points from Boro. Of the bottom clubs, we look the most out of reach for them with an 8 points difference. Given their goal difference will be better, they have a realistic chance of saving themselves. It won't be easy, but it is certainly doable for them.

What a mess this football situation is. I feel really sorry for the fans, staff and genuine creditors of Wigan Athletic. I've no desire to discuss how a potential points deduction might pan out, that feels shabby and opportunistic. Football is a rotten business and it is, paradoxically, only rotten because fans love their clubs so much. Any normal business that failed would see its staff and 'customers' move on to alternatives as quickly as they could.  With football, we can't just walk away, so there's a constant round of failure and resurrection which allows the absolute scum of humanity to get in and more or less openly steal from clubs and then walk away with impunity when they fold. For a long time I've argued that the EFL should do more, but I've come to the conclusion that they cannot for reasons that have been eloquently stated higher up the thread. I genuinely believe that the only solution is for the government to re-write the laws concerning the ownership and governance of football clubs. Sadly, there are so many vested interests in having a system of perpetual failure that even if we had the sort of government capable of distinguishing their collective arses from their collective elbows, we'd still never achieve this. Sometimes I love football, but increasingly less so. Sometimes I hate it. Today is one of those times.

paulie8290 said:

It is stupid to wait until the season ends to decide when they are going to apply the deduction either apply it now or apply it next season.


So are they on 50 points now or 38 i am conf

But if they did finish 22nd, it’s not fair to deduct then is it? They’ll already be relegated so technically go without punishment concerning league standing. 

seth plum said:

A lot of this makes me think about a phrase used not long ago by Lyle Taylor which was 'I know my value'.
Really?
I wonder if he, and footballers generally, can take into account the new realities.
And agents too.

Crickey hope he’s not signing for Wigan!

paulie8290 said:

stoneroses19 said:

paulie8290 said:

It is stupid to wait until the season ends to decide when they are going to apply the deduction either apply it now or apply it next season.


So are they on 50 points now or 38 i am conf

But if they did finish 22nd, it’s not fair to deduct then is it? They’ll already be relegated so technically go without punishment concerning league standing. 

But if you then give them a -12 next season and they get relegated by 13 points, do you then say well they would have been relegated without the points deducted anyway so they haven't actually been punished so it needs to be moved to the next season.


Either put it on now or say its going on at the start of next season then everyone knows where they stand, otherwise now it looks like they are on 50 poitns but technically they may be on 38 points but no one will know until the season is finished, it just makes no sense

I think it makes sense to everyone except you!

Uboat said:

Oggy Red said:

MrLargo said:

Garrymanilow said:

It does make you appreciate a bit more what Chris Parkes used to say about how Roland always paid the bills. He absolutely hated us but even he didn't just decide he couldn't be arsed to keep people in jobs and pull all his cash out. Roland is in no way a good bloke, and he's still wanting repaying for all the money he ever put in, but just deciding you don't fancy paying for a club you agreed to take on and walking away is the lowest of the low.

Don't think he'd have thought twice about pulling the plug on funding if he didn't think he could recoup all his money from flogging the stadium. He kept paying the bills because it was in his interests to do so. If he gave one solitary toss about the wellbeing of his staff then he would have paid the bonuses he promised.

We're all a bit cynical of Duchatelet. And with some good reason.

But ..... let's not forget he's had history as a socialist politically, formed his own people's party or whatever it was called.
He likes to think of himself as some kind of reformer.

Also ...... he's been kind to injured players out of contract (Leon Best springs to mind), where he continued paying them for an extended period - where legally, he didn't have to.

Yeah, he's a profiteer, making money is his end game. And every asset has it's price. 
But he doesn't seem to be especially ruthless with people.

Don’t know where this thing about RD being a socialist comes from. Is there any actual evidence to support it or is it just a mistake that keeps getting repeated?

Um, don’t have the exact documents to hand but a central part of his failed political party was the payment of a decent wage to all citizens whether they were at work or not.

this would be paid for by slightly higher levels of taxation on actual earnings.

It’s a slightly redistibutrative policy often dabbled with by more socialist thinking parties but I don’t think it necessarily makes him a socialist: 

he does also believe in football as a way of bringing people together but also as a way of doing that in a way that makes him money. 

Read the explanations above Paulie! This policy was introduced to ensure that clubs going into administration always receive a meaningful punishment. 

Surely it's not that traumatic to do a bit of basic mental arithmetic when you look at the table!!

Sounds like a pre-pack to me, something that I cannot believe is still legal.

paulie8290 said:

MrLargo said:

paulie8290 said:

stoneroses19 said:

paulie8290 said:

It is stupid to wait until the season ends to decide when they are going to apply the deduction either apply it now or apply it next season.


So are they on 50 points now or 38 i am conf

But if they did finish 22nd, it’s not fair to deduct then is it? They’ll already be relegated so technically go without punishment concerning league standing. 

But if you then give them a -12 next season and they get relegated by 13 points, do you then say well they would have been relegated without the points deducted anyway so they haven't actually been punished so it needs to be moved to the next season.


Either put it on now or say its going on at the start of next season then everyone knows where they stand, otherwise now it looks like they are on 50 poitns but technically they may be on 38 points but no one will know until the season is finished, it just makes no sense

I think it makes sense to everyone except you!

Maybe so but you look at a league table at it currently says Wigan 14th with 50 points

Which may or may not be accurate we wont no if they are currently on 50 points until the end of the season when they have either been relegated or survived.

My point is surely its easier to just add it now put the minus 12 on and move them to 38 points and 24th

If Wigan are relegated then the 12 point deduction would take place next season in L1.

If Wigan are not relegated, they will be deducted 12 points at the end of the season, which may or may not result in relegation.

paulie8290 said:

MrLargo said:

Read the explanations above Paulie! This policy was introduced to ensure that clubs going into administration always receive a meaningful punishment. 

Surely it's not that traumatic to do a bit of basic mental arithmetic when you look at the table!!

Right but as I said how long does that carry on for.

They get deducted 12 points next season and get relegated by 13 points so the 12 points didnt effect them, do the 12 points then carry on to the following season? 

It carries on until the final whistle of this season.

If Wigan are in a relegation spot, then their 12 point deduction happens next season and they start off League 1 on -12.

If Wigan are not in a relegation spot then they have a 12 point deduction this season. You just have to mentally remove 12 points from their current total to get their true position.

stoneroses19 said:

paulie8290 said:

MrLargo said:

Read the explanations above Paulie! This policy was introduced to ensure that clubs going into administration always receive a meaningful punishment. 

Surely it's not that traumatic to do a bit of basic mental arithmetic when you look at the table!!

Right but as I said how long does that carry on for.

They get deducted 12 points next season and get relegated by 13 points so the 12 points didnt effect them, do the 12 points then carry on to the following season? 

Why would it carry over to the 2021/22 season? The point deduction will be decided at the end of this season. 

All you have to do for the next 6 games is minus 12 points from Wigan current tally. 

My point is people are saying  the reason its be done this way is because if they get relegated without the points deduction then giving them a points deduction is no punishment

So at the start of the 2021/22 season u give them minus 12 points and they go down by 13 points then technically they points deduction wouldnt have made any difference and they haven't been punished so there is no difference.

I am not saying it should be carried on, and i get the rule is in place for teams that are already relegated trying to quickly get the 12 point deduction, but in Wigans case they are not already relegated trying to quickly get it this year so why not just add it IMO anyway.

soapy_jones said:

Uboat said:

Oggy Red said:

MrLargo said:

Garrymanilow said:

It does make you appreciate a bit more what Chris Parkes used to say about how Roland always paid the bills. He absolutely hated us but even he didn't just decide he couldn't be arsed to keep people in jobs and pull all his cash out. Roland is in no way a good bloke, and he's still wanting repaying for all the money he ever put in, but just deciding you don't fancy paying for a club you agreed to take on and walking away is the lowest of the low.

Don't think he'd have thought twice about pulling the plug on funding if he didn't think he could recoup all his money from flogging the stadium. He kept paying the bills because it was in his interests to do so. If he gave one solitary toss about the wellbeing of his staff then he would have paid the bonuses he promised.

We're all a bit cynical of Duchatelet. And with some good reason.

But ..... let's not forget he's had history as a socialist politically, formed his own people's party or whatever it was called.
He likes to think of himself as some kind of reformer.

Also ...... he's been kind to injured players out of contract (Leon Best springs to mind), where he continued paying them for an extended period - where legally, he didn't have to.

Yeah, he's a profiteer, making money is his end game. And every asset has it's price. 
But he doesn't seem to be especially ruthless with people.

Don’t know where this thing about RD being a socialist comes from. Is there any actual evidence to support it or is it just a mistake that keeps getting repeated?

So, we were taken over by the Belgian Corbyn?

That explains the exemplary running of the club over the past few years......erm

@paulie8290 why are you even thinking about the conclusion of next season if they go down this season and it gets put on at the start of next season?

It’s fairly straightforward that the reason they are waiting for the end of the season is to ensure the punishment is meaningful, otherwise they’re already relegated and then -12 just means they end up finishing bottom, it doesn’t impact them in that case.

If they go down without it and start on -12, they’ll have 46 games to recover from it.

Look at them as having 38 points currently, and sitting bottom of the league.

Or, if you want to... Take their points now and know that if they are 11 points or less in front of the relegation zone come the end of the season, they’re going down. So as people are thinking say, 50/51 points is what you need, Wigan will need to finish on 63 points to be safe. 

bigstemarra said:

soapy_jones said:

Uboat said:

Oggy Red said:

MrLargo said:

Garrymanilow said:

It does make you appreciate a bit more what Chris Parkes used to say about how Roland always paid the bills. He absolutely hated us but even he didn't just decide he couldn't be arsed to keep people in jobs and pull all his cash out. Roland is in no way a good bloke, and he's still wanting repaying for all the money he ever put in, but just deciding you don't fancy paying for a club you agreed to take on and walking away is the lowest of the low.

Don't think he'd have thought twice about pulling the plug on funding if he didn't think he could recoup all his money from flogging the stadium. He kept paying the bills because it was in his interests to do so. If he gave one solitary toss about the wellbeing of his staff then he would have paid the bonuses he promised.

We're all a bit cynical of Duchatelet. And with some good reason.

But ..... let's not forget he's had history as a socialist politically, formed his own people's party or whatever it was called.
He likes to think of himself as some kind of reformer.

Also ...... he's been kind to injured players out of contract (Leon Best springs to mind), where he continued paying them for an extended period - where legally, he didn't have to.

Yeah, he's a profiteer, making money is his end game. And every asset has it's price. 
But he doesn't seem to be especially ruthless with people.

Don’t know where this thing about RD being a socialist comes from. Is there any actual evidence to support it or is it just a mistake that keeps getting repeated?

So, we were taken over by the Belgian Corbyn?

That explains the exemplary running of the club over the past few years......erm

Doubt Guy Luzon knew