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Cricket .. England in South Africa & Sri Lanka 2019/2020
Comments
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we do so like to come from behind .. as the bishop … etc etc1
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He's now out of the SL tour too!North Lower Neil said:
I bow to your country cricket knowledge!thai malaysia addick said:
I’m not sure why Jofra should be classed as fragile. Besides his current injury, I can’t recall him missing games in 2-3 years for Sussex.North Lower Neil said:I can see us going into future series looking to alternate Wood and Jofra given both are a bit fragile.
Was mainly judging on the fact he was carrying niggly injuries through the World Cup and Ashes, and has missed a couple now.0 -
And the IPLNorth Lower Neil said:
He's now out of the SL tour too!North Lower Neil said:
I bow to your country cricket knowledge!thai malaysia addick said:
I’m not sure why Jofra should be classed as fragile. Besides his current injury, I can’t recall him missing games in 2-3 years for Sussex.North Lower Neil said:I can see us going into future series looking to alternate Wood and Jofra given both are a bit fragile.
Was mainly judging on the fact he was carrying niggly injuries through the World Cup and Ashes, and has missed a couple now.0 -
It's been clear there's been something wrong with archer after the second ashes test, now it seems he's been bowling through discomfort for a while and being bowled a lot, which is why he's been frustratingly bowling in the mid/late 80s rather than the early 90's that he can bowl.
Hopefully jimmy can come back to full fitness and wood can stay fit, that will massively take the pressure off archer.0 -
I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
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I'm in agreement and not convinced he has the mental strength or desire to do it either. As much as some of us don't like it, he can have a very lucrative career playing for any number of franchises, combined with sponsorship, having only to bowl a maximum of 4 overs per match. It also won't stop him representing counties or even England in 50 over games so could, in theory, earn himself a white ball central contract.killerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.1 -
I don’t think any genuinely quick bowler is tbh, why root’s over bowling of him is so frustrating. Archer should be our strike bowler, bowl him in 5-7 over spells max.killerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.1 -
Counter-intuitively, there isn't a direct correlation between Archer's speed and the length of his spells. For example, in the Ashes, his fastest bowling was during a nine-over spell.
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I think it is very soon, to be writing Archer off as a test bowler, he is only at the start lets see how he goes, when he is fully fit, I would love to see him and Mark Wood at full pace next ashes series.
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I think that's the central focus of the management of the team. Thy will be doing everything they can to make sure those two are fit and firing on 22 November next year. Because, frankly, if they are, then it's far easier for all the other parts to fall into place.Johnnysummers5 said:I think it is very soon, to be writing Archer off as a test bowler, he is only at the start lets see how he goes, when he is fully fit, I would love to see him and Mark Wood at full pace next ashes series.
Archer missing the SL leg of the tour may well be part of this process. In other words, they could well have made the decision to leave him out even if he was fit or close to it. The next Ashes series - and the one after that - are far more important than any other red ball series we will play in the mean time. Even if that means sacrificing fire power in some of the World Test Championship series ahead.0 - Sponsored links:
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My full strength ODI side is
1. Roy
2. Bairstow
3. Root
4. Morgan
5. Stokes
6. Buttler
7. Moeen
8. Woakes
9. Rashid
10. Wood
11. Archer0 -
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.4 -
I'm not questioning his talent, more his durability. And to an extent his long term motivation when there's so much money to be made from the T20 leagues, and for a fast bowler it's so much easierPelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
Malinga retired from Tests in 2011 after only 30 matches, but played ODIs until 2019 and is STILL playing T20 internationals. Plus all the global T20 leagues.
I'd give Archer 4 or 5 years of Test cricket more at most1 -
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.0 -
Addick Addict said:
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
How do you know he was not up for it? he had a bad series but that happens, Joffra has said playing test cricket is what he wants to do most, he need not have made himself available for England if he only wanted to play white ball cricket.1 -
And he probably said it in all good faith. But, perhaps, the reality of playing 5 days of cricket doesn't suit him? We also know that things haven't been good, at times, with Root and many have cast the blame on him. Having seen the video of Archer bowling off a dozen yards at him and laughing I'm not sure that it is all his fault.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
How do you know he was not up for it? he had a bad series but that happens, Joffra has said playing test cricket is what he wants to do most, he need not have made himself available for England if he only wanted to play white ball cricket.
Archer can still use playing a year or so of Test cricket to earn him a white ball contract which, with appearances, could amount to £400K. And we are hardly likely to refuse that are we? Add all the sponsorship and BBL, IPL etc etc and he will comfortably earn in total £1m per annum. Playing Test cricket might hinder that both in terms of appearances and injuries because, once again, bowling 50 plus overs in a short space of time does more damage than bowling 4 overs every few days.0 -
Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.5
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Addick Addict said:
And he probably said it in all good faith. But, perhaps, the reality of playing 5 days of cricket doesn't suit him? We also know that things haven't been good, at times, with Root and many have cast the blame on him. Having seen the video of Archer bowling off a dozen yards at him and laughing I'm not sure that it is all his fault.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
How do you know he was not up for it? he had a bad series but that happens, Joffra has said playing test cricket is what he wants to do most, he need not have made himself available for England if he only wanted to play white ball cricket.
Archer can still use playing a year or so of Test cricket to earn him a white ball contract which, with appearances, could amount to £400K. And we are hardly likely to refuse that are we? Add all the sponsorship and BBL, IPL etc etc and he will comfortably earn in total £1m per annum. Playing Test cricket might hinder that both in terms of appearances and injuries because, once again, bowling 50 plus overs in a short space of time does more damage than bowling 4 overs every few days.
He has bowled plenty of overs in the 4 day game for Sussex without an injury and he was playing IPL and BBL in that time, most fast bowlers get injuries, take Pat Cummings he had his fair share and has come back stronger, test cricket is the highest level and I would think most players want to play it0 -
Chizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.
I'm not saying he hasn't done it or isn't capable of doing it. What I am saying is that I'm not sure that he will want to do it all for long. He will still have his sponsors whether he is playing Test matches or not. And he couldn't play in this year's BBL because of Test cricket and can't now play in the IPL because of this injury - so has missed out on both.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
And he probably said it in all good faith. But, perhaps, the reality of playing 5 days of cricket doesn't suit him? We also know that things haven't been good, at times, with Root and many have cast the blame on him. Having seen the video of Archer bowling off a dozen yards at him and laughing I'm not sure that it is all his fault.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
How do you know he was not up for it? he had a bad series but that happens, Joffra has said playing test cricket is what he wants to do most, he need not have made himself available for England if he only wanted to play white ball cricket.
Archer can still use playing a year or so of Test cricket to earn him a white ball contract which, with appearances, could amount to £400K. And we are hardly likely to refuse that are we? Add all the sponsorship and BBL, IPL etc etc and he will comfortably earn in total £1m per annum. Playing Test cricket might hinder that both in terms of appearances and injuries because, once again, bowling 50 plus overs in a short space of time does more damage than bowling 4 overs every few days.
He has bowled plenty of overs in the 4 day game for Sussex without an injury and he was playing IPL and BBL in that time, most fast bowlers get injuries, take Pat Cummings he had his fair share and has come back stronger, test cricket is the highest level and I would think most players want to play it
A truly fast bowler is worth his weight in gold (and literally in Archer's case given his sponsorship from a jeweller) - a few have already crossed over to white ball only but did so at the end of their careers e.g. Shaun Tait and Tymal Mills. Many West Indians have done so too albeit because, comparatively speaking, they don't get paid much to play red ball cricket.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating so shall we re-visit this in say 3 years time and see how many Tests he is playing at that time?0 -
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.0 - Sponsored links:
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They must both be absolutely exhausted. It's only February.Addick Addict said:
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.1 -
That's unusual for you to be so pedantic. But I should have said last calendar year because he hasn't, of course, bowled a single ball this calendar year and might not do so for some time.Chizz said:
They must both be absolutely exhausted. It's only February.Addick Addict said:
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.
I also see that he hasn't been totally ruled out of the IPL and it will be interesting to see if he does turn out for the Rajasthan Royals after all.0 -
Dont think that stat can quite be taken at face value. Broad isnt that far behind and it doesnt take into account the fact that he bowled a hell of a lot more overs in the first half of the season playing red ball cricket for Notts when Archer was playing white ball for England with a max of 10 overs a day.Addick Addict said:
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.0 -
Completely out of character 😀.Addick Addict said:
That's unusual for you to be so pedantic. But I should have said last calendar year because he hasn't, of course, bowled a single ball this calendar year and might not do so for some time.Chizz said:
They must both be absolutely exhausted. It's only February.Addick Addict said:
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.
I also see that he hasn't been totally ruled out of the IPL and it will be interesting to see if he does turn out for the Rajasthan Royals after all.2 -
I apologise if you were offended by my joke.Addick Addict said:
That's unusual for you to be so pedantic. But I should have said last calendar year because he hasn't, of course, bowled a single ball this calendar year and might not do so for some time.Chizz said:
They must both be absolutely exhausted. It's only February.Addick Addict said:
Only two international pace bowlers bowled more overs than Archer did this calendar year - over 400 in totalChizz said:Of the fourteen players who have taken wickets for England in Tests in the last 12 months, only one (Stuart Broad) has taken more than Archer. And those have come in 13 Tests, compared to Archer's 7. I hope everyone agrees it's too soon to consign him to the history books.
I also see that he hasn't been totally ruled out of the IPL and it will be interesting to see if he does turn out for the Rajasthan Royals after all.0 -
SA batting, play started about half an hour ago.0
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and Kock already out.2
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Now now Suzie, it's only lunchtimesuzisausage said:and Kock already out.
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It also now appears that he was probably injured in new zealand and playing in pain, a stress fracture doesn't just happen overnight.Johnnysummers5 said:Addick Addict said:
When Archer is up for it, he has demonstrated that he is as good as any in the world. The issue is that he hasn't always been so (2-209 in the series against NZ) and it is difficult to carry a bowler who doesn't fancy it in Test cricket. It's far easier for him to rock up for 20 overs of fielding and to bowl 4 overs than for 5 days, half of which he will be in the field.Pelling1993 said:
He's played 7 matches and has 3 5fors, easily good enough for test match cricket imokillerandflash said:I'm not convinced Archer is made for red ball bowling, as I don't think he has the stamina to bowl long sessions day after day.
How do you know he was not up for it? he had a bad series but that happens, Joffra has said playing test cricket is what he wants to do most, he need not have made himself available for England if he only wanted to play white ball cricket.0 -
suzisausage said:and Kock already out.
Bloody Newcastle fans2
