The Rooney Rule

Clarke or Glenn at the FA, I forget which, mentioned they run something like 28 teams. I’m sure most with multiple coaches. This is not a rule just the full England squad or indeed the premiership, if they’ve noted a problem it’s far more likely to affect the other 27 teams than Southgate’s mob.

I don’t see the issue with it myself so long as the appointee is the best person for the job I am perfectly happy for them to Force open the process.

Best person gets the job, doesn't matter creed, colour or sex, this and the ludicrous whining remainers, stop the world i need to get off.

blackpool72 said:

SDAddick said:

blackpool72 said:

SDAddick said:

blackpool72 said:

SDAddick said:

blackpool72 said:

Best person for the job should get the job regardless of colour.

Before anyone thinks I am missing the point.
The best manager we have had since curbs was scp

My altime favourite Charlton players include
David White
Richard Rufus
Chris Powell
Keith Jones
Darren Bent
Etc etc etc.

The fact that some people still look at colour as an issue says a lot about us as society and in 2018 I find that sad

Yes white man, tell us what it's like to have race not effect you. What a lovely luxury you have.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dani-bostick/how-colorblindness-is-act_b_10886176.html

You know nothing about me and you obviously did not read my post as it was meant

You gave the footballing equivalent of "some of my best friends are black."

The fact that you flagged that (why? Because I called you "white man?" Challenged your pre-conceived notions?) )instead of saying "here is what I meant" is telling.

If you new me you would know how wrong you are in your assumption of who you think I am.

And yes I did find you calling me a white man in the way you said it offensive

So I jumped to conclusions and I did that thing where I briefly forgot that there are human beings behind computer screens and I apologize for that. I'd truly like to have a better understanding of how you meant it, and even your background if you're willing to explain.

Ok.
I spent 30 years of my working life as a firefighter in the London fire brigade.
When I joined the brigade in the early 80s it was predominantly a white male job.
Over the years many changes happened to bring the brigade to be more representative of the community that it served.
I am proud to say that the brigade is now totally inclusive regardless of colour religion sex or anything else.

When I said in my earlier post that I find it sad that race is still an issue in 2018 and that it should not be an issue in this day and age I meant it .
I am sorry if you interpreted it differently.

Just to letr you know re brigade, on oyr site

blackpool72 said:

SuedeAdidas said:

Where were you stationed out of interest @blackpool72 ?

New Addington
Eltham
Lee green
East Greenwich
Biggin hill.
With out duties I served at about 50 stations across London

You must have known my brother Colin then I reckon.....was at Lakedale Rd from mid 70’s to early 00’s.

"Best person for the job" is based on the perception of the interviewer and their circumstances and biases, not on some objective reality.

Don't believe me? Karel Fraeye.

Karel Fraeye.

Chippycafc said:

Ooops i meant to say re brigade, on our site we have a fire service of which 30% are women fire fighters.... They never get called out to a shout as the BA kits might hurt their backs or may effect their chances of being pregnant etc bla bla. Another cade of liberal crap gone wrong.

Fiiish said:

McBobbin said:

"Best person for the job" is based on the perception of the interviewer and their circumstances and biases, not on some objective reality.

Don't believe me? Karel Fraeye.

Karel Fraeye.

You don't understand, he wasn't the best man for a manager job, he was the best man for blindly following a fax printout of the team sheet.

I gathered that.

Though, Katie probably though he was the best manager. Because she's really, really shit.

I've met enough people in my profession to make me question the very fabric of reality. Basically, they were the best people for the job based on the interview after careful selection of the intake. The sole criteria seemingly being "most like the boss, but slightly uglier". Same school so must be a good chap.

AFKABartram said:

So according to the FA guy on SSN

the Rooney rule is simple

“take the role of England manager, they have to have the right technical qualifications so that would be their professional coaching badges and you have got to have managed a club. Provided on meeting that criteria, on the shortlist for that job would be a BAME candidate”

So if they advertised for the England job tomorrow, Chris Powell, Jacob Lester, Chris Hughton, JFH or Keith Curle would be interviewed for the highest job in English football if one of then applied even though none of them have completed a season of managing at premiership level let alone won anything

That would make them remarkably qualified for the England job. I'd take Hughton over Southgate anyway.

The Red Robin said:

AFKABartram said:

So according to the FA guy on SSN

the Rooney rule is simple

“take the role of England manager, they have to have the right technical qualifications so that would be their professional coaching badges and you have got to have managed a club. Provided on meeting that criteria, on the shortlist for that job would be a BAME candidate”

So if they advertised for the England job tomorrow, Chris Powell, Jacob Lester, Chris Hughton, JFH or Keith Curle would be interviewed for the highest job in English football if one of then applied even though none of them have completed a season of managing at premiership level let alone won anything

Like every other England manager then.

Yeah what’s Sven or Capello ever won as managers.

If I may give my two pennies' worth as someone with non-white heritage*:

This is, by most metrics, undoubtedly a good thing. It's only 30-odd years since Paul Canoville was racially abused by his own fans on debut; just over a decade since the Ron Atkinson/Marcel Desailly and the Millwall/Djimi Traore incidents; and four years since our own fans were imprisoned for racial chants relating to the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

And I've barely scratched the surface. There were also Malky Mackay; the Chelsea fans at PSG; John Terry (probably false); Eni Aluko and Mark Sampson; and so on ad nauseam.

The main argument I've seen here is "well they're only being interviewed because of their skin colour"; or "it should be on merit". I'd like to address these points, but it's a bit roundabout, so bear with me.

On the surface these points are very valid, the latter in particular. However, we have to examine why there is such disproportionate representation of BAME figures in the coaching side of the game. I would volunteer that entrenched racism stemming back to the 80s and 90s is a root cause.

This in turn means BAME footballers are disincentivised from applying for coaching roles, as they were subject to racism for their careers, so why should they bother subjecting themselves to that again? It's less money etc. This creates a vicious circle that very few BAME footballers are willing to break out of. I'd like to draw parallels to homophobia in football - though the "race question" is further advanced than that.

Basically - institutionalised racism, no matter how far back we go, has a knock-on effect even decades later.

As for merit - yes, the best candidate will get the job. Probably. But the implementation of the Rooney Rule (cack-handed as it's likely to be) is to ensure there is at least a form of pathway for BAME figures to progress on, whereas before, the backroom staff circuit has looked like a white man's club.

So while this is an artificial leg up, it's a wholly necessary one to ensure there isn't continued marginalisation of ethnic minorities within association football.

Just my opinion.

*obviously I'm half-white. Full disclosure - I'm quarter English; quarter Irish; and half Chinese. But I still look "other" enough to mean my race is mentioned most of the time.

ValleyGary said:

The Red Robin said:

AFKABartram said:

So according to the FA guy on SSN

the Rooney rule is simple

“take the role of England manager, they have to have the right technical qualifications so that would be their professional coaching badges and you have got to have managed a club. Provided on meeting that criteria, on the shortlist for that job would be a BAME candidate”

So if they advertised for the England job tomorrow, Chris Powell, Jacob Lester, Chris Hughton, JFH or Keith Curle would be interviewed for the highest job in English football if one of then applied even though none of them have completed a season of managing at premiership level let alone won anything

Like every other England manager then.

Yeah what’s Sven or Capello ever won as managers.

And look how much they won with the England team...

PaddyP17 said:

Chippycafc said:

All this is total crap just like a certain percentage of MPs must be male or female. What next a certain must be BGLT/Bald or fat/thin... Ridiculous, best person for the job end of story.

I hope you read my post immediately after yours. But if you don't, to sum it up:

Yes, best person for the job. However, society has been historically racist (and in some ways may still be, but I'm not an expert), which means white people/white men tend to have everything set out tailored to them, which is an artificial and unjust head start.

I made a detailed point on this in September vis a vis Parliament being unrepresentative of the population and the historical context of this:

http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/2966143/#Comment_2966143

PaddyP17 said:

Chippycafc said:

All this is total crap just like a certain percentage of MPs must be male or female. What next a certain must be BGLT/Bald or fat/thin... Ridiculous, best person for the job end of story.

I hope you read my post immediately after yours. But if you don't, to sum it up:

Yes, best person for the job. However, society has been historically racist (and in some ways may still be, but I'm not an expert), which means white people/white men tend to have everything set out tailored to them, which is an artificial and unjust head start.

I have found the opposite, i have worked with/ been in charge of people of ethnic minority and of course white people who both wernt up to the job but have been sacked purely out of incompetence. But of course some were reinstated. Leave it to you to guess who.

Chippycafc said:

PaddyP17 said:

Chippycafc said:

All this is total crap just like a certain percentage of MPs must be male or female. What next a certain must be BGLT/Bald or fat/thin... Ridiculous, best person for the job end of story.

I hope you read my post immediately after yours. But if you don't, to sum it up:

Yes, best person for the job. However, society has been historically racist (and in some ways may still be, but I'm not an expert), which means white people/white men tend to have everything set out tailored to them, which is an artificial and unjust head start.

I have found the opposite, i have worked with/ been in charge of people of ethnic minority and of course white people who both wernt up to the job but have been sacked purely out of incompetence. But of course some were reinstated. Leave it to you to guess who.

Minorities. Because they'd find it harder to get back onto the job ladder than a white person.

Again, yes - these are artificial legs up. But necessary, because society has been tailored towards white people (and in particular white men) for centuries.