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The Rooney Rule

The Red RobinThe Red Robin
in Other Football and Sports
FA to adopt ‘Rooney Rule’ for appointing future England managers.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/09/fa-rooney-rule-appointing-managers


Positive move but let's hope it's not just for show. It largely works in the NFL although the Oakland Raiders have pretty much just ignored it last week:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752582-raiders-didnt-violate-rooney-rule-amid-jon-gruden-rumors-nfl-spokesman-says
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Comments

  • SuedeAdidasSuedeAdidas
    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    SuedeAdidas said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
    If that's the case then surely they'd need to implement that first otherwise, outside of about 4/5 candidates, they'll be interviewing Vanarama level managers who have just made it in to club management. League clubs will very rarely give a job to someone without either experience or a good playing career behind them so non league would be the entry level for a lot of BAME managers.
  • SuedeAdidasSuedeAdidas
    Big_Bad_World said:

    SuedeAdidas said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
    If that's the case then surely they'd need to implement that first otherwise, outside of about 4/5 candidates, they'll be interviewing Vanarama level managers who have just made it in to club management. League clubs will very rarely give a job to someone without either experience or a good playing career behind them so non league would be the entry level for a lot of BAME managers.
    And that’s likely how it will be to start.

    Maybe the FA think that by taking the lead it will force others (not PL clubs obviously) to follow suit?!?
  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    Big_Bad_World said:

    SuedeAdidas said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
    If that's the case then surely they'd need to implement that first otherwise, outside of about 4/5 candidates, they'll be interviewing Vanarama level managers who have just made it in to club management. League clubs will very rarely give a job to someone without either experience or a good playing career behind them so non league would be the entry level for a lot of BAME managers.
    Apparently already in place in the Football League, which is news to me. I wonder how many BAME candidates Katrien Meire interviewed in 24 hours before appointing Guy Luzon.
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  • Dazzler21Dazzler21
    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    I think it's pretty fair tbh. Every human should be interviewed on merit rather than skin colour though.
  • SuedeAdidasSuedeAdidas
    The Red Robin said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    SuedeAdidas said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
    If that's the case then surely they'd need to implement that first otherwise, outside of about 4/5 candidates, they'll be interviewing Vanarama level managers who have just made it in to club management. League clubs will very rarely give a job to someone without either experience or a good playing career behind them so non league would be the entry level for a lot of BAME managers.
    Apparently already in place in the Football League, which is news to me. I wonder how many BAME candidates Katrien Meire interviewed in 24 hours before appointing Guy Luzon.
    74
  • se9addickse9addick
    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    I think it's pretty fair tbh. Every human should be interviewed on merit rather than skin colour though.
    then I'll ask again, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    Purely from memory but I believe the stats for this are out there and they indicate a very small take up rate of ex pros wanting to go in to management from a BAME background.

    Out of interest, do you believe the answer to be different? If So, why? and are there any stats/research to back it up? Interested to know as I've only ever seen the low take up rate ones pushed.
  • se9addickse9addick
    The Red Robin said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    SuedeAdidas said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Presumably there will need to be a similar trickle down into the league club’s hiring processes before this can really be that effective at the National level?
    If that's the case then surely they'd need to implement that first otherwise, outside of about 4/5 candidates, they'll be interviewing Vanarama level managers who have just made it in to club management. League clubs will very rarely give a job to someone without either experience or a good playing career behind them so non league would be the entry level for a lot of BAME managers.
    Apparently already in place in the Football League, which is news to me. I wonder how many BAME candidates Katrien Meire interviewed in 24 hours before appointing Guy Luzon.
    Does Luzon himself not count as a BAME manager?
  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    ValleyGary said:

    Once again the FA completely miss the point.

    The first thing they should do is reduce the cost of gaining coaching qualifications in the country, making it more affordable for all whether you’re white, black or green. Better affordability would mean a greater percentage of minority representation, especially in inner city football associations like London FA.

    They should also do this. I'm lucky that my club refund the cost of Level One and Level Two - which cost a total of around £500 combined but that's obviously not the case for a lot of people, especially those who don't work for / volunteer with a club and want to get into football. UEFA B is over £1,000.
  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    Big_Bad_World said:

    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    Purely from memory but I believe the stats for this are out there and they indicate a very small take up rate of ex pros wanting to go in to management from a BAME background.

    Out of interest, do you believe the answer to be different? If So, why? and are there any stats/research to back it up? Interested to know as I've only ever seen the low take up rate ones pushed.
    Why do you think that might be? Maybe they don't see the point if they don't think they'll be presented opportunities. We can't ignore the possibility that institutional racism still exists in the game because it will at some clubs.
  • ValleyGaryValleyGary
    There must be other contributing factors. The amount of money involved in the game since the premier league started means that most players retiring over the last 20 years have earned enough money that they can peruse other businesses with less hassle and higher earning than coaching. Ethnic representation has increased in the game but Id imagine the take up rate of all ex pros has decreased.
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  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    The Red Robin said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    Purely from memory but I believe the stats for this are out there and they indicate a very small take up rate of ex pros wanting to go in to management from a BAME background.

    Out of interest, do you believe the answer to be different? If So, why? and are there any stats/research to back it up? Interested to know as I've only ever seen the low take up rate ones pushed.
    Why do you think that might be? Maybe they don't see the point if they don't think they'll be presented opportunities. We can't ignore the possibility that institutional racism still exists in the game because it will at some clubs.
    Maybe. Or maybe the money in the game now means a lot of players don't need to think about going in to management.

    Im with @bobmunro, again, in that so long as someone meets the criteria then I have no issue with it.

    When it falls over is if you interview and the candidate was there purely to fill a quota and/or tick a box.

    Ask Ian Wright, Kevin Campbell, Michael Thomas, Emile Heskey and the plethora of BAME players that didn't go in to management why they chose not to.
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    For the record, the representation percentage is pretty much in line with the societal make up. Are we now suggesting that staffing levels should now represent the industry as opposed to society?

    A very slippery slope and one whereby some will decide to pick and choose where it suits.
  • JiMMy 85JiMMy 85
    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    I see it as encouraging qualified people to go for jobs they might not otherwise have bothered going for.
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    JiMMy 85 said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    I see it as encouraging qualified people to go for jobs they might not otherwise have bothered going for.
    Which is fair enough, so long as it doesn't then kick start the finger pointing for not getting a job they're clearly unqualified for.
  • Dazzler21Dazzler21
    edited January 2018
    se9addick said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    Out of interest, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?

    I think introducing something along the line of the Rooney Rule" is a good idea, it's clear that black managers getting a fair crack isn't going to happen on its own.
    I think it's pretty fair tbh. Every human should be interviewed on merit rather than skin colour though.
    then I'll ask again, why do you think there are so few black managers in the game relative to the number of black players?
    I think it's purely a take up issue. I'd be interested to know how many BAME coaches there are out there that are in coaching roles.

    I wonder how many applications throughout 2017 were from BAME candidates for League positions?
  • JiMMy 85JiMMy 85
    Also, does the Rooney Rule do any harm? Are there any drawbacks to it?
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    JiMMy 85 said:

    Also, does the Rooney Rule do any harm? Are there any drawbacks to it?

    I'm sure we'll find out once Barnsey or Incey have been interviewed, and failed, once Southgates tenure ends.
  • Dazzler21Dazzler21
    JiMMy 85 said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    Can't see it as a positive move when someone is being interviewed due to the colour of their skin as opposed to their track record in management/managing at the highest possible level.

    Still, at least it will give plenty of interview practice to John Barnes and Paul Ince.

    I see it as encouraging qualified people to go for jobs they might not otherwise have bothered going for.
    If someone is not bothered to go for a job, do they really deserve the job?
  • soapy_jonessoapy_jones
    Rizzo said:

    All candidates must have shagged a granny in order to get the job? Or is that the wrong Rooney?

    I knew there was a reason Woy got it! Mrs Hodgson always had a bemused look on her face.
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