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Fans Forum Tonight?
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Katrien should look at this video and learn from @rikofold how to conduct yourself if you want to be taken seriously.
She simply defended the indefensible.
Unlike her staff, her customers are not predisposed to show loyalty just because they are told they should pay homage to their master.
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Yep, she behaves like a spoiled child. I actually think she owes an apology to fans rep Christine, she dismissed her with disdain, it was embarrassing to watch.Addickforlife said:I don't think I can sit through all of this. She's such a smug, patronising b##ch. Her little laugh before each answer as if it is just an absurd question is incredibly infuriating.
She even had an opportunity to mend some fences when asked about Dublin. Could have said 'I apologise for those comments it was not my intention to insult fans and my words came out wrong'. But no she goes off on a rant acting like a brat.
I pity the new Head of Comms trying to sort that lot out, they haven't got a clue and are going through the motions with fans, they really don't want to engage or hear our shit.
Oh and Tony, the only thing I could hear you say during your mumbles was to keep calling the Jimmy Seed the South Stand, get it right, don't roll your eyes when you were corrected you're supposed to be COO of this great club.19 -
The video only serves to confirm just how bad things are.
I'm concerned that KM, her nodding dogs and, to a degree, the fans attending, are too keen to put the conflict down to poor communications. Katrien says at one point 'the biggest frustration is the engagement of the fans'. It's way deeper than that.
The fans are totally distraught at the never ending stream of terrible decisions especially surrounding coach and player recruitment. It's so much more than a bunch of supporters being upset that we're likely to be relegated and no-one is talking with us.
Katrien's reaction in the room was extremely defensive, particularly with her pre prepared statement as to how fans are wrong in their interpretation of the Dublin comments. Whatever the context of those comments they were disrespectful at the very least, indeed such disrespect has been displayed by Katrien throughout her tenure.
When questioned about poor player/coach decisions she seems to only blame bad luck by continually responding 'these things happen in football'. Yes they do but not with the regularity of failure that we have seen under her 'leadership'. Perhaps Roland can perform some sort of six sigma test to prove that her consistency of failure is no coincidence.
If Duchatelet is genuine in his stated intent on continuing his ownership then surely he must realise that Katrien's time is beyond up. He also needs to employ an experienced Director of Football that ensures we operate with a high degree of due diligence in transfers and all football matters.
But, of course, he is too arrogant to realise these things which is why we must continue to intensify the pressure on him to sell.17 -
They just don't seem to understand any part of how we feel... Surely they must realise that for us to be demonstrating and protesting as we are things are pretty dire in our eyes... after all when we were relegated to league 1 the last time did we protest at the ownership? no. So its not just about poor performances on the pitch, its also about about how we, as fans who will still be here long after they have left, feel disillusioned and disenfranchised from the club we love yet they will not see it for what it is....2
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Katrien seemed at her least credible trying to defend the regular managerial disasters. I wonder what she will say the next time.
I may have skipped the bit where she is questioned about the purpose of all the Academy stuff she was going on about which is to make players to sell to the Premier League.0 -
Thinking back to watchin the FF yesterday, how does Keohane manage to keep a straight face when he said there were no discussions about potential flats in the Jimmy Seed Stand, when there were a number of options put forward?
Surely, someone must have discussed getting together options. If he had said that no decision had been made, I might be tempted to believe him. But, clearly there must have been some discussion...
Actually, on second thoughts, there probably is no discussion, Roland decides and the joyful news is transmitted (with an, allegedly, coquettish giggle) by his representative on Earth to his loyal disciples.1 -
It may be an idea for someone with the technical know-how to edit this down to a short video containing the most damaging moments from the regime's point of view. It would then be easier to circulate among fans and the media.6
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Covered End said:
A big problem that the fans have, is that Rikofold is a bit of a lone voice, in terms of being able to speak to the club, in an intelligent, clear and informed manner. As fans we would almost be better off, if he had taken them on singlehanded, but of course he cannot as he is too polite.
If we had a few Grapevine's & AFKA's on the the forum to support him, we may get somewhere, but of course the club would never allow that, or would they if they are genuine in wanting to communicate better ?
Communication includes LISTENING to fans, who are articulate enough to discuss the fans concerns and regretfully Rikofold needs some support.
This is not meant to offend the other supporters who did admirably under the circumstances, but unquestionably are not necessarily the BEST people to debate with the club, in the same way that I would not be the most suitable either. I hope this is understood in the spirit it is offered.
I would urge anyone who admired Rikofold's performance and who isn't a member of CAS Trust to consider joining the Trust. Rik was there because he is a member of the CAS Trust board doing exactly what a supporters trust is set up to do - being an effective channel of communication between fans and club. We have 1056 members but the more members we have the more influence people like Rik can have.
You can join atcastrust.org/join/
The forum that Covered End describes with people like Grapevine, Rik, AFKA, Steve Clarke, (even Airman) etc speaking to the club is what CASTrust envisaged the Strategy Group which Katrien promised would be like. She continues to mention it when speaking in public but has done nothing in 2 months to actually get it off the ground.20 -
If she wasn't CEO and was say head of cleaning, do you think others around the table would let her act like that?2
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Despite assurances over fans concerns being taken on board and addressed through better communications, when the key Supporters Trust Survey findings were presented, no one from the Club appeared to seize the initiative and requested to see or follow up on the detailed findings.
I might be being unfair and perhaps this was covered off air, or maybe the Survey findings are automatically presented to the Club anyway as a matter of course.2 - Sponsored links:
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I think the lady who spoke about organizing the POTY was taken aback when Iain said he was not interested in being involved if the club wanted to organize it to take place after the Burnley game on the Saturday. She has 12 weeks to organize it, I can not see an of the fans (Fanny) wanting to collect votes etc. The fans could make a total farce of it by voting for TWW.6
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After saying there have been no discussions, he immediately brings up a artists concept from 15 years ago, laying the groundwork for a u-turn.NornIrishAddick said:Thinking back to watchin the FF yesterday, how does Keohane manage to keep a straight face when he said there were no discussions about potential flats in the Jimmy Seed Stand, when there were a number of options put forward?
Surely, someone must have discussed getting together options. If he had said that no decision had been made, I might be tempted to believe him. But, clearly there must have been some discussion...
Actually, on second thoughts, there probably is no discussion, Roland decides and the joyful news is transmitted (with an, allegedly, coquettish giggle) by his representative on Earth to his loyal disciples.
So much crap as well. "The discussions have only been about enhancing the ground". What, you mean they have not been talking about making it worse? Enhancing it in which way? From Roland's perspective or ours. What a load of bollocks.4 -
Its frustrating that KM can still confuse the national media into thinking she is hard-working and competent.valleynick66 said:
Was it disingenuous though? I say that because there was no real news as no new things came to light. All I heard / saw was the right of reply on some of the things that have been discussed on here and elsewhere.Covered End said:
I'd agree that the filming & viewing were a positive. It's the attitude of Meire and the disingenuous replies that were out of order.valleynick66 said:
What's your point here? That it should have been cancelled or the absentees made more of an effort? Really not clear what you would consider might have happened differently. We'd have moaned more if the meeting were cancelled.Airman Brown said:Accepting that it's partly a function of the FF members sending apologies, there is a pretty absurd ratio of staff to fans at that meeting. I make it 11 staff and 7 fans at first count (not counting the person recording the video).
I am worried we are picking holes for the sake of it.
Constructive criticism is needed . Surely what is very positive is that the meeting was videoed and released very quickly and that ( to me) the agenda was allowed to air the issues of the day and that answers (whether we like them or not) were given.
They defended the realtively minor issue on where ticket office staff are located, Stated the Jimmy Seed stand is at this stage a preliminary investigation and that no staff reductions are planned.
I know I am in a minority but do have some sympathy on the defence of the Dublin interview having taken the time to watch it; you can hear what you want to hear I feel.
I'd rather look to the positive that they concede communication is poor and want go get better.
When the meeting concludes on the merits of a Saturday or Sunday social event with 'our' side admitting to non participation on the basis don't want to consider a change it shows how both sides can become frustrated with entrenched views regardless of the spirit of the meeting.
Critical we (as fans) and they know player recruitment and the managerial farce is the root cause and they effectively admitted that. They commented on it but this forum was never going to get into more detail than it did but a least allowed those attending to express their opinions.
How can you offer such defences to an individual who promotes her own interests at the expense of the club? You would expect a natural alignment given her position as CEO but her actions do not support this proposition.
Toxic liar.
A nonsense appraisal of Dublin conference. It you really want an insight into her knowledge of football then there it is. In total context and illustrating her vision.
I want to hear competency, ability and dedication but somehow can't seem to.
Which channel of Newspeak do you tune into because that might be my problem, perhaps my antenna needs to replicate the 100% pure BS frequency you seem to be receiving.4 -
Maybe someone should just keep calling him Pony instead of Tony every time they speak to him and then roll your eyes when he corrects youNug said:
Yep, she behaves like a spoiled child. I actually think she owes an apology to fans rep Christine, she dismissed her with disdain, it was embarrassing to watch.Addickforlife said:I don't think I can sit through all of this. She's such a smug, patronising b##ch. Her little laugh before each answer as if it is just an absurd question is incredibly infuriating.
She even had an opportunity to mend some fences when asked about Dublin. Could have said 'I apologise for those comments it was not my intention to insult fans and my words came out wrong'. But no she goes off on a rant acting like a brat.
I pity the new Head of Comms trying to sort that lot out, they haven't got a clue and are going through the motions with fans, they really don't want to engage or hear our shit.
Oh and Tony, the only thing I could hear you say during your mumbles was to keep calling the Jimmy Seed the South Stand, get it right, don't roll your eyes when you were corrected you're supposed to be COO of this great club.9 -
Just another thing they don't understand and want to change.Dansk_Red said:I think the lady who spoke about organizing the POTY was taken aback when Iain said he was not interested in being involved if the club wanted to organize it to take place after the Burnley game on the Saturday. She has 12 weeks to organize it, I can not see an of the fans (Fanny) wanting to collect votes etc. The fans could make a total farce of it by voting for TWW.
And there was me thinking that Cahones fully understands what the customers need0 -
After observing her performances on video, I am worried that there might be another explanation.calydon_road said:
Its frustrating that KM can still confuse the national media into thinking she is hard-working and competent.valleynick66 said:
Was it disingenuous though? I say that because there was no real news as no new things came to light. All I heard / saw was the right of reply on some of the things that have been discussed on here and elsewhere.Covered End said:
I'd agree that the filming & viewing were a positive. It's the attitude of Meire and the disingenuous replies that were out of order.valleynick66 said:
What's your point here? That it should have been cancelled or the absentees made more of an effort? Really not clear what you would consider might have happened differently. We'd have moaned more if the meeting were cancelled.Airman Brown said:Accepting that it's partly a function of the FF members sending apologies, there is a pretty absurd ratio of staff to fans at that meeting. I make it 11 staff and 7 fans at first count (not counting the person recording the video).
I am worried we are picking holes for the sake of it.
Constructive criticism is needed . Surely what is very positive is that the meeting was videoed and released very quickly and that ( to me) the agenda was allowed to air the issues of the day and that answers (whether we like them or not) were given.
They defended the realtively minor issue on where ticket office staff are located, Stated the Jimmy Seed stand is at this stage a preliminary investigation and that no staff reductions are planned.
I know I am in a minority but do have some sympathy on the defence of the Dublin interview having taken the time to watch it; you can hear what you want to hear I feel.
I'd rather look to the positive that they concede communication is poor and want go get better.
When the meeting concludes on the merits of a Saturday or Sunday social event with 'our' side admitting to non participation on the basis don't want to consider a change it shows how both sides can become frustrated with entrenched views regardless of the spirit of the meeting.
Critical we (as fans) and they know player recruitment and the managerial farce is the root cause and they effectively admitted that. They commented on it but this forum was never going to get into more detail than it did but a least allowed those attending to express their opinions.
How can you offer such defences to an individual who promotes her own interests at the expense of the club? You would expect a natural alignment given her position as CEO but her actions do not support this proposition.
Toxic liar.
A nonsense appraisal of Dublin conference. It you really want an insight into her knowledge of football then there it is. In total context and illustrating her vision.
I want to hear competency, ability and dedication but somehow can't seem to.
Which channel of Newspeak do you tune into because that might be my problem, perhaps my antenna needs to replicate the 100% pure BS frequency you seem to be receiving.
Psychosis is a mental health problem that causes people to perceive or interpret things differently from those around them. This might involve hallucinations or delusions.
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I don't want to criticise anyone who was there as it seems to me it was a difficult environment in which to make any valid points but I am at a loss as to why she was not pushed further in relation to the Varney exchanges.
The original approach was made to RD and it was clear at that stage that it was an investment opportunity, RD told her to meet with PV, she failed to do so and it seems that almost all of the unavailability and cancellations came from her side, PV went out of his way to be available.
If they are not interested in investments why did RD tell her to meet PV?
If she is being truthful then why did she not just simply say to PV that they were not interested from the outset? Would have saved a lot of wasted time and confusion.
They seem obvious points to me and it seems that she was let off the hook somewhat, however I do understand that they all probably just wanted to get out of there by then!2 -
How long is the video , I will watch it at some stage
1) for the car crashness of it
2) to wind myself up
3) to see who Rikofold is1 -
1 hr 40 mins1
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I would still like to know, how much money has been spent on players that proved to be not good enough, transfers, hotels, signing on fees, other expenses. I bet this information will never be published, so when they go on about how much they have spent on players, will someone ask this question0
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I do think that it is interesting the way that staff were spread out around the table. I think I might have been easier for the fan representatives if there was less need to keep turning their heads. In my world the CEO, CFO and COO should have sat together, as the focal point. I'm not saying that it should automatically be confrontational, but even with an independent Chair, it would be difficult to progress matters with the distribution of people.bexleyaddick said:I don't want to criticise anyone who was there as it seems to me it was a difficult environment in which to make any valid points but I am at a loss as to why she was not pushed further in relation to the Varney exchanges.
The original approach was made to RD and it was clear that it was an investment opportunity, RD told her to meet with PV, she failed to do so and it seems that almost all of the unavailability and cancellations came from her side, PV went out of his way to be available.
If they are not interested in investments why did RD tell her to meet PV?
If she is being truthful then why did she not just simply say to PV that they were not interested in investment from the outset? Would have saved a lot of wasted time and confusion.
They seem obvious points to me and it seems that she was let off the hook somewhat, however I do understand that they all probably just wanted to get out of there by then!
I wonder is it a deliberate decision on the part of the club, or had it been agreed as a way forward.
As an aside, should someone suggest to the minute taker/Chair that the agenda should include who has raised matters for inclusion ahead of the day, too often no-one on the club side seemed to know why items were included or by whom.1 -
I picture Roland in his office in Belgium questioning "why are all these people making protests when the business I run in SE7 has nothing to do with football?"0
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@rikofold I watched the whole thing. I thought you did an excellent job. The answers you illicted from KM will I am sure come back to bite her.rikofold said:I've not long got back and I'm tired. I think it would be best for people to watch the vid and make up their own minds, because I'll only end up being up for another 3 hours as people pore over every syllable I put out there.
It was my first one and a bit of a last minute thing, more questions on playing side than I expected. Club responses on the predictable side but I think there was some reasonable scrutiny. It is a gentle forum on the whole. I was more active than I intended to be. Still, nothing new there eh.
Clearest things that came across to me were
1. they believe that they have failed to communicate RDs "strategy" effectively if at all. They do not acknowledge that the strategy may need changing. The discourse over the appointment of Head Coachs was just ridiculous. To continue to claim that these were open appointments with serious interviews done of UK based candidates is just ridiculous.
2. that spending £25M is justifcation alone of RDs commitment rather forgetting the old adage "a fool and his money are easily parted"
3. that in KM we have someone who is so far out of her depth she is trying to swim above the Mariana Trench.
I agree with some earlier points made that videoing the whole process has just made them look even more stupid. Of course it's more transparent and is communicating with the wider customer fan base but it is a huge own goal because the message they are putting out there is at best incoherent and at worse it's "liar liar pants on fire" stuff.
I am still unclear where "break even" is going to take us. As I watched I had this worrying thought that when they bought the club, they thought that they were buying the other CAFC along with Dario Gradi. To me that club is much closer to the kind of model that they are looking to create.
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Just watched as much as I can bear. Finger nails being dragged down a blackboard. She really is dreadful.1
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I suspect this will be the limit of their fan engagement. Box ticked, and in their next interview we will hear "we met with a group of fans and had some really great discussions and I think they now have a better idea of what we are trying to do and how much we all want the same thing".2
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Wow it can't be painful all the way surelyDansk_Red said:1 hr 40 mins
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I have to say, yes the communication is awful.
However, even if the communication was impeccable, we will still be a joke of a club, all the time Duchatelet & Meire are running the circus.
Duchatelet and Meire must leave, end of story.
If they go, then the rest of the staff will fall in line with the new owners.
Has anyone actually told Meire to her face, that she is an incompetent liar, who is vastly under qualified to do her job ?7 -
Wow, that is real "parallel universe" stuff. Very depressing again, as nothing said by the club throws us even an olive branch to cling onto. That's unless you are extremely gullible and accept their half truths and spin at face value. @rikofold , thank you for doing a great job for us all.
The idea of compiling a 5 minute cut of the most ridiculous/damaging quotes by KM is a good one I think (but clearly a lot of work involved for someone - not to mention having to suffer the drivel over and over again while editing, probably more than most of us could bear).2 -
Wasn't that what you were trying to tell her at the last VIP meeting before someone took the microphone off you ?1
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So let's take a step back and try to be a bit objective.
Firstly I have no objections to the staff being scattered in with the fans. In many ways that's inclusive, and I'd prefer that to a panel and their audience. I think the issue was that there were too many staff and too few fans. Personally I would have Katrien, David, Tony and Lisa in there from the club, have the layout the same and relax about where they're sat.
Secondly, on the subject of Katrien and Tony lying I'll say this: anyone who thinks we were told the whole truth and nothing but the truth by Richard Murray and Peter Varney is a fantasist. The issue is less that they don't always tell us the truth about everything than the subjects of their guardedness.
For example, why be so guarded about what Roland is actually trying to achieve? If the vision is for a break even club that can compete, spell it out in black and white. Involve us in the plans for how to achieve it. How can we increase revenues, how can we reduce costs, where are the spend to save opportunities, how can we increase productivity? etc. We all know it's a ludicrous vision that will keep us in the lower reaches at best, but what if? How amazing would it be to do something special at Charlton that could be a new model for other clubs? That's why I don't get their approach. (Powerpoint isn't a bad idea in itself, but the content was poor).
And why be guarded about the plans for the Jimmy Seed stand? Declare that you're looking into it, state that you're open to all kinds of ideas, invite them from the supporter base. Then when you're ready, put proposals before the supporters and see if they buy into them, see what pitfalls they can help you avoid.
Instead, we have what they presented on Thursday. An entrenched defensive position, none shall pass, barriers up, them and us attitude, laughing at fans who they thought were being naive. Awful awful awful.
Anyone notice how few of them talk about 'us' in the inclusive sense?
And the saddest thing about all of this is that many of them are really nice people. It could be so different.27
