When I have a moment I might take a look back at last summer - I don't recall "praising the good business that had been done" simply because there wasn't much was there?! I probably said "don't panic" and chose to hold judgement until I had seen some games up to the first international break in September. At that point the writing was on the wall, not because of results - we beat Leicester and drew away to Watford remember- but because their was no loan cover for Solly nor Kermorgant. At that point Chris Powell would have been within his rights to walk away but he didn't. The squad was strong enough to survive as subsequently proven but the manager was being asked to run with less resources than the previous year. Where was I "forecasting the outcome" for next season? I simply stated that Riga strikes me as someone who could take us out of the bottom third, and into the middle third. Given he delivered mid-table results with a squad which has been described as League 1, depleted etc I see that as a rational forecast not particularly optimistic. My gut feeling is that Riga could also make the next giant step and take us to our best finish since 2007 given that ten to 15 players are leaving. This with the right player retention and acquisitions CAFC can easily improve on last season.
Acknowledging that we are now in a position of strength with 15 players all under 25 (except Jackson) signed on long term deals is a statement of fact, not spin. If Duchatelet and the dealmakers choose to add the right ten players to that 15 then the future is bright. However if he doesn't try or they fail to secure targets then he will miss an opportunity to move CAFC significantly up the table. Allow me to repeat: Duchatelet has the opportunity to move us to a 65 point finish and then 75 but there is no guarantee he will nor at what pace. Personally from a business side it makes sense to do things ASAP as it adds value to the players and club overall.
IMHO he would be wasting his time (and ours) if he doesn't . The journey will become boring and fans will jump off and watch from the sides.
The ball is in Duchatelet's court and with his executives. I don't feel the need to stress nor to demonise the guy. He is the owner and I think he's done a decent job to date. We finished way higher than expected and players like Wiggins, Jackson and Fox have been signed on long term deals over the last few months. Again this is fact and not spin.
On the subject of our recent relegation fight I saw that in a very positive light throughout because the bookies and a US website had us at 90%+ to stay up towards the end. I saw a tangible improvement in play and results under Riga and perhaps I simply would not contemplate relegation. Some were so wound up that they bet against Charlton staying up. Not sure how a payout would help given that this site would have gone into meltdown amidst recriminations and blame if we had gone down.
And for anyone like Henry who wanted to sign up the whole squad on long term contracts I would ask two questions: who was paying for it given CAFC was already on course to lose £5m and which of Pritchard, Green, Evina, Cort were you planning to sign... Or would you tell them there and then that they had no chance. I expect that all of those players out of contract would have been told that they might be able to play for a new deal. On the flip side we might never know what discussions were held between CAFC and Morrison, Dervite, Hamer and Poyet... Before and after the turnover.
It is too early to tell how many players of value might go next month but many, many fans cite just four players worth keeping out of 15 out of contract. And one of those is Poyet who wasn't even on the radar before Christmas.
And for anyone like Henry who wanted to sign up the whole squad on long term contracts
I never said that and you know it. Desperate attempt by you to deflect the criticism your "mindless optimism" and re-writing of history has attracted.
What I said was the not signing the key "assets" in the squad (not ALL the players or just the kids but the key first teamers) was risky and surprise, surprise RD and KM agreed as KM said this was a priority at the VIP meeting earlier this year.
But they didn't all sign then and so we wait to see if DD, MM, BH and DP will still be with us next season. JC, JJ and RW have signed and YK and DS were sold. These were the key assets that people wanted signed, not Green, Pritchard or Cook and you well know that.
Last season you and your then friends in the Trust constantly defended TJ and MS's so called policy of not signing the key first team players (not the kids or the fringe players but the first teamers) as a clever strategy. They were conning you and you fell for it.
Now we are in a position of weakness when negotiating with those players as they can speak to other clubs and can sign up for what they feel is the best offer.
We can't offer the most money so we have to wait and see if they prefer to stay under Riga or whoever the head coach is to be and if they feel, and in particular Poyet feels, that the squad is being significantly strengthened and we have the right coach.
Doesn't mean they will all leave, some will, some wont IMO but having only 21 players, many of whom have never played a first team game, on the books and no manager is not a position of strength no matter how much you try to spin it.
Henry - Would you be able to point me to some evidence of "your then friends in the Trust constantly defended TJ and MS's so called policy of not signing the key first team players.... as a clever strategy". I don't have your remarkable memory but, if the so called policy was constantly defended by the Trust, I think I would be able to recall it, and I don't.
Sorry Henry, but I hear a lot on here of you digging people out over the last owners.
I am absolutely not ITK in any way and on the face of it, letting contracts run out this summer does seem foolish BUT it is surely unquestionable that the previous bunch ran out of money. Did you expect them to negotiate new contracts they knew they could not fulfill?
Sometimes in life there are occasions where there just is no blame and I wonder if this is one of them.
Previous owners just ran out of cash so could not negotiate new contracts because they had nothing to negotiate with.
Players now out of contract act in the best interests of themselves as we all would.
New owner would have given longer contracts but did not own us and to a point it is now out of his hands as power is with the players.
Ultinately, RD did not see the short expiries of players contracts as a deal breaker so maybe this was a positive. As I see it DD and Poyet are the only 2 with genuine sell on value.
Sorry Henry, but I hear a lot on here of you digging people out over the last owners.
I am absolutely not ITK in any way and on the face of it, letting contracts run out this summer does seem foolish BUT it is surely unquestionable that the previous bunch ran out of money. Did you expect them to negotiate new contracts they knew they could not fulfill?
Sometimes in life there are occasions where there just is no blame and I wonder if this is one of them.
Previous owners just ran out of cash so could not negotiate new contracts because they had nothing to negotiate with.
Players now out of contract act in the best interests of themselves as we all would.
New owner would have given longer contracts but did not own us and to a point it is now out of his hands as power is with the players.
Ultinately, RD did not see the short expiries of players contracts as a deal breaker so maybe this was a positive. As I see it DD and Poyet are the only 2 with genuine sell on value.
Agree with nearly everything you say.
Yes they had no money once Kevin Cash pulled the plug hence the sudden stop in spending.
That was the situation and the reasons contracts of senior players weren't being renewed.
Some people were aware of that and said so, often to much abuse.
TJ and MS were however dishonest about the reasons, tried to blame FFP and "forgot" that they could put £5m, messed CP and the players about. So in my eyes they were to blame.
My issue is that some people denied they were broke and claimed it was a clever strategy. And now one of them continues to spin it as a good thing.
Well clever strategy it clearly was not, either then or now.
That said, with the exception of MM, DD, DP and YK which is only 4 out of 15 or so it is and probably was the right strategy wasn't it?
People may argue over Hamer (in my opinion a slightly better than average champ keeper who would not generate much of a fee if he was tied to a 4 year deal and is easily replacable) and Stephens (in my opinion a luxury player who was not consistent enough and seemed desperate to move away after the Villa move collapsed).
Therefore the last lot could be seen to have done the best of a bad situation when Mr Cash buggered off.
It assumes all 15 are of equal worth when clearly they are not.
Is Dervitte worth four or five fringe players or the same as Pritchard?
What matters is keeping the assets which the old board didn't and the new board couldn't do completely although it tried and did tie JJ and RW down.
The new board was left a mess. It wasn't a deal breaker but it might have been one reason the price dropped from 35m to 12m + 4m although the main reason was that TJ and MS were desperate to sell as they couldn't keep funding the club much longer.
When I have a moment I might take a look back at last summer - I don't recall "praising the good business that had been done" simply because there wasn't much was there?! I probably said "don't panic" and chose to hold judgement until I had seen some games up to the first international break in September. At that point the writing was on the wall, not because of results - we beat Leicester and drew away to Watford remember- but because their was no loan cover for Solly nor Kermorgant. At that point Chris Powell would have been within his rights to walk away but he didn't. The squad was strong enough to survive as subsequently proven but the manager was being asked to run with less resources than the previous year. Where was I "forecasting the outcome" for next season? I simply stated that Riga strikes me as someone who could take us out of the bottom third, and into the middle third. Given he delivered mid-table results with a squad which has been described as League 1, depleted etc I see that as a rational forecast not particularly optimistic. My gut feeling is that Riga could also make the next giant step and take us to our best finish since 2007 given that ten to 15 players are leaving. This with the right player retention and acquisitions CAFC can easily improve on last season.
Acknowledging that we are now in a position of strength with 15 players all under 25 (except Jackson) signed on long term deals is a statement of fact, not spin. If Duchatelet and the dealmakers choose to add the right ten players to that 15 then the future is bright. However if he doesn't try or they fail to secure targets then he will miss an opportunity to move CAFC significantly up the table. Allow me to repeat: Duchatelet has the opportunity to move us to a 65 point finish and then 75 but there is no guarantee he will nor at what pace. Personally from a business side it makes sense to do things ASAP as it adds value to the players and club overall.
IMHO he would be wasting his time (and ours) if he doesn't . The journey will become boring and fans will jump off and watch from the sides.
The ball is in Duchatelet's court and with his executives. I don't feel the need to stress nor to demonise the guy. He is the owner and I think he's done a decent job to date. We finished way higher than expected and players like Wiggins, Jackson and Fox have been signed on long term deals over the last few months. Again this is fact and not spin.
On the subject of our recent relegation fight I saw that in a very positive light throughout because the bookies and a US website had us at 90%+ to stay up towards the end. I saw a tangible improvement in play and results under Riga and perhaps I simply would not contemplate relegation. Some were so wound up that they bet against Charlton staying up. Not sure how a payout would help given that this site would have gone into meltdown amidst recriminations and blame if we had gone down.
And for anyone like Henry who wanted to sign up the whole squad on long term contracts I would ask two questions: who was paying for it given CAFC was already on course to lose £5m and which of Pritchard, Green, Evina, Cort were you planning to sign... Or would you tell them there and then that they had no chance. I expect that all of those players out of contract would have been told that they might be able to play for a new deal. On the flip side we might never know what discussions were held between CAFC and Morrison, Dervite, Hamer and Poyet... Before and after the turnover.
It is too early to tell how many players of value might go next month but many, many fans cite just four players worth keeping out of 15 out of contract. And one of those is Poyet who wasn't even on the radar before Christmas.
Comments
At that point the writing was on the wall, not because of results - we beat Leicester and drew away to Watford remember- but because their was no loan cover for Solly nor Kermorgant. At that point Chris Powell would have been within his rights to walk away but he didn't.
The squad was strong enough to survive as subsequently proven but the manager was being asked to run with less resources than the previous year.
Where was I "forecasting the outcome" for next season? I simply stated that Riga strikes me as someone who could take us out of the bottom third, and into the middle third. Given he delivered mid-table results with a squad which has been described as League 1, depleted etc I see that as a rational forecast not particularly optimistic. My gut feeling is that Riga could also make the next giant step and take us to our best finish since 2007 given that ten to 15 players are leaving. This with the right player retention and acquisitions CAFC can easily improve on last season.
Acknowledging that we are now in a position of strength with 15 players all under 25 (except Jackson) signed on long term deals is a statement of fact, not spin.
If Duchatelet and the dealmakers choose to add the right ten players to that 15 then the future is bright. However if he doesn't try or they fail to secure targets then he will miss an opportunity to move CAFC significantly up the table. Allow me to repeat: Duchatelet has the opportunity to move us to a 65 point finish and then 75 but there is no guarantee he will nor at what pace. Personally from a business side it makes sense to do things ASAP as it adds value to the players and club overall.
IMHO he would be wasting his time (and ours) if he doesn't . The journey will become boring and fans will jump off and watch from the sides.
The ball is in Duchatelet's court and with his executives. I don't feel the need to stress nor to demonise the guy. He is the owner and I think he's done a decent job to date. We finished way higher than expected and players like Wiggins, Jackson and Fox have been signed on long term deals over the last few months. Again this is fact and not spin.
On the subject of our recent relegation fight I saw that in a very positive light throughout because the bookies and a US website had us at 90%+ to stay up towards the end. I saw a tangible improvement in play and results under Riga and perhaps I simply would not contemplate relegation. Some were so wound up that they bet against Charlton staying up. Not sure how a payout would help given that this site would have gone into meltdown amidst recriminations and blame if we had gone down.
And for anyone like Henry who wanted to sign up the whole squad on long term contracts I would ask two questions: who was paying for it given CAFC was already on course to lose £5m and which of Pritchard, Green, Evina, Cort were you planning to sign... Or would you tell them there and then that they had no chance. I expect that all of those players out of contract would have been told that they might be able to play for a new deal. On the flip side we might never know what discussions were held between CAFC and Morrison, Dervite, Hamer and Poyet... Before and after the turnover.
It is too early to tell how many players of value might go next month but many, many fans cite just four players worth keeping out of 15 out of contract. And one of those is Poyet who wasn't even on the radar before Christmas.
What I said was the not signing the key "assets" in the squad (not ALL the players or just the kids but the key first teamers) was risky and surprise, surprise RD and KM agreed as KM said this was a priority at the VIP meeting earlier this year.
But they didn't all sign then and so we wait to see if DD, MM, BH and DP will still be with us next season. JC, JJ and RW have signed and YK and DS were sold. These were the key assets that people wanted signed, not Green, Pritchard or Cook and you well know that.
Last season you and your then friends in the Trust constantly defended TJ and MS's so called policy of not signing the key first team players (not the kids or the fringe players but the first teamers) as a clever strategy. They were conning you and you fell for it.
Now we are in a position of weakness when negotiating with those players as they can speak to other clubs and can sign up for what they feel is the best offer.
We can't offer the most money so we have to wait and see if they prefer to stay under Riga or whoever the head coach is to be and if they feel, and in particular Poyet feels, that the squad is being significantly strengthened and we have the right coach.
Doesn't mean they will all leave, some will, some wont IMO but having only 21 players, many of whom have never played a first team game, on the books and no manager is not a position of strength no matter how much you try to spin it.
I am absolutely not ITK in any way and on the face of it, letting contracts run out this summer does seem foolish BUT it is surely unquestionable that the previous bunch ran out of money. Did you expect them to negotiate new contracts they knew they could not fulfill?
Sometimes in life there are occasions where there just is no blame and I wonder if this is one of them.
Previous owners just ran out of cash so could not negotiate new contracts because they had nothing to negotiate with.
Players now out of contract act in the best interests of themselves as we all would.
New owner would have given longer contracts but did not own us and to a point it is now out of his hands as power is with the players.
Ultinately, RD did not see the short expiries of players contracts as a deal breaker so maybe this was a positive. As I see it DD and Poyet are the only 2 with genuine sell on value.
Henry: 'Arrrg'
Yes they had no money once Kevin Cash pulled the plug hence the sudden stop in spending.
That was the situation and the reasons contracts of senior players weren't being renewed.
Some people were aware of that and said so, often to much abuse.
TJ and MS were however dishonest about the reasons, tried to blame FFP and "forgot" that they could put £5m, messed CP and the players about. So in my eyes they were to blame.
My issue is that some people denied they were broke and claimed it was a clever strategy. And now one of them continues to spin it as a good thing.
Well clever strategy it clearly was not, either then or now.
That said, with the exception of MM, DD, DP and YK which is only 4 out of 15 or so it is and probably was the right strategy wasn't it?
People may argue over Hamer (in my opinion a slightly better than average champ keeper who would not generate much of a fee if he was tied to a 4 year deal and is easily replacable) and Stephens (in my opinion a luxury player who was not consistent enough and seemed desperate to move away after the Villa move collapsed).
Therefore the last lot could be seen to have done the best of a bad situation when Mr Cash buggered off.
It assumes all 15 are of equal worth when clearly they are not.
Is Dervitte worth four or five fringe players or the same as Pritchard?
What matters is keeping the assets which the old board didn't and the new board couldn't do completely although it tried and did tie JJ and RW down.
The new board was left a mess. It wasn't a deal breaker but it might have been one reason the price dropped from 35m to 12m + 4m although the main reason was that TJ and MS were desperate to sell as they couldn't keep funding the club much longer.
Have you ever heard of less is more ?
It's too late, to start disecting some of the bizarre twaddle.
Lets face it, We don't do logic. ' We do things the hard way, That's what we do ''
Status - Rich man's plaything.
Motto - If you don't like it, go elsewhere.
First signs of status change - sale of key players for no reason.
Other signs - manager sacking/new contract for the hopeless/no contract for the hopefuls.
Most likely to - move staff and players in and out at a whim
Least likely to - Give a flying Karamazov about what fans think
Usual communication media - Rumour
Preferred communication media - Dead Sea Scrolls
Published aspiration - Top level football
Real aspiration - not to spend any money
Relevant further reading - I'm running the show by Robert Mugabe
Relevant further audio - Won't get fooled again by The Who