Karel Fraeye
Comments
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shows how much I know :-)0
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Paul hart wishes to move on I am gutted by it but I thank him for every thing and remember his time very fondly2
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agreed .. the lads who have come through to the first team this year: Poyet, Cousins, Lennon, Fox, Harriott; they must all owe a lot to the coaching and encouragement that they received from Hart and the academy coaching team in generalnth london addick said:Paul hart wishes to move on I am gutted by it but I thank him for every thing and remember his time very fondly
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Riga's cogitraining will either be a masterstroke piece of genius or fail horrifically. Considering RD made his money from electronics which, as an industry you tend to get very rich if you can come up with a new, more effiecient way of doing things things like this are hardly surprising and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a couple more strange things happen.0
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I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a couple more strange things happen.
Like scoring a goal ;0)0 -
or 3... by magic marvin..2
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Two of those were Charlton and knew the club and were aware of our identity.iaitch said:
Lennie Lawrence started here.The Red Robin said:
He can start somewhere else then. Not here.SELR_addicks said:Give him time, if good players move in with him this summer I won't be complaining.
Every manager has to start somewhere.
Alan Curbishley started here.
Chris Powell started here.
Didn't do too bad did they?0 -
Les Reed was Charlton and knew the club + identity, helped him a lot.The Red Robin said:
Two of those were Charlton and knew the club and were aware of our identity.iaitch said:
Lennie Lawrence started here.The Red Robin said:
He can start somewhere else then. Not here.SELR_addicks said:Give him time, if good players move in with him this summer I won't be complaining.
Every manager has to start somewhere.
Alan Curbishley started here.
Chris Powell started here.
Didn't do too bad did they?9 -
I think that's unfair. The club was a mess full of shite players who didn't care. You would have a point with Pardew maybe though.SELR_addicks said:
Les Reed was Charlton and knew the club + identity, helped him a lot.The Red Robin said:
Two of those were Charlton and knew the club and were aware of our identity.iaitch said:
Lennie Lawrence started here.The Red Robin said:
He can start somewhere else then. Not here.SELR_addicks said:Give him time, if good players move in with him this summer I won't be complaining.
Every manager has to start somewhere.
Alan Curbishley started here.
Chris Powell started here.
Didn't do too bad did they?1 -
Heard the same rumours re the Academy and a team of Riga and Avory can continue the good work.
As for Fraeye? I had hoped Duchatelet would be aiming higher with an older more experienced head coach simply because next season is so important to re establish CAFC in the top 10 - to get the fans back and retain and attract the best players.
I can visualise our current squad having about ten players changing over the summer and stepping up considerably. To do this we must have the player acquisition and coaching sorted.3 - Sponsored links:
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Fraeye is no older than Andy Hughes! Would rather you made him coach at least he knows the league and it's pressures! Fraeye also has no coaching qualifications whatsoever!!1
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I'd be interested in how you know that about Fraeye's (lack of) qualifications?cantersaddick said:Fraeye is no older than Andy Hughes! Would rather you made him coach at least he knows the league and it's pressures! Fraeye also has no coaching qualifications whatsoever!!
The only backgound info I can find on him via google relates to his manager/coaching role at Belgium 4th tier side Eendracht Zele from June 2011 until he joined us and his own slightly difficult to decipher LinkedIn page:
http://uk.soccerway.com/coaches/karel-fraeye/309063/
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa0 -
Somebody I know was having a beer with him and he mentioned it.micks1950 said:
I'd be interested in how you know that about Fraeye's (lack of) qualifications?cantersaddick said:Fraeye is no older than Andy Hughes! Would rather you made him coach at least he knows the league and it's pressures! Fraeye also has no coaching qualifications whatsoever!!
The only backgound info I can find on him via google relates to his manager/coaching role at Belgium 4th tier side Eendracht Zele from June 2011 until he joined us and his own slightly difficult to decipher LinkedIn page:
http://uk.soccerway.com/coaches/karel-fraeye/309063/
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa
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Lets face it there was no way we could have prevented Man City from takeing Paul Hart The contract offer must have been far superior to ours plus he is a Lancashire Lad & city must be his first club as his dad Johnny Hart was a star of the 1950/60's city team.0
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Didn t realise he is Johnny Harts son.fossdeneboy said:Lets face it there was no way we could have prevented Man City from takeing Paul Hart The contract offer must have been far superior to ours plus he is a Lancashire Lad & city must be his first club as his dad Johnny Hart was a star of the 1950/60's city team.
What a great player he was.
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Charles Fraeye brought Zele first provincial to the top of the fourth class. Fraeye, formerly the youth of AA Gent and trained through Zottegem landed in Zele.
Was made aware of the Hart moving on, Riga to head of academy and Fraeye to lead us a couple months back. it would be hugely worrying to say the least. If it wasn't for Dyers and Matthews work behind the scenes and with player help I don't think Riga would look quite so magical too, good football brain but doesn't mean you get results, tough league to break into after coaching amateurs and kids.5 -
Nor did I. He later became a coach at City with Joe Mercer and Malcolm Allison.Starinnaddick said:
Didn t realise he is Johnny Harts son.fossdeneboy said:Lets face it there was no way we could have prevented Man City from takeing Paul Hart The contract offer must have been far superior to ours plus he is a Lancashire Lad & city must be his first club as his dad Johnny Hart was a star of the 1950/60's city team.
What a great player he was.0 -
If you look at his LinkedIn page he also worked as a teacher while managing/coaching Eendracht Zele:Atletico Addick said:Charles Fraeye brought Zele first provincial to the top of the fourth class. Fraeye, formerly the youth of AA Gent and trained through Zottegem landed in Zele.
Was made aware of the Hart moving on, Riga to head of academy and Fraeye to lead us a couple months back. it would be hugely worrying to say the least. If it wasn't for Dyers and Matthews work behind the scenes and with player help I don't think Riga would look quite so magical too, good football brain but doesn't mean you get results, tough league to break into after coaching amateurs and kids.
Head Football Coach
KFC Eendracht Zele
juli 2011 – maart 2014 (2 jaar 9 maanden) Zele
Champions in 2011/2012 (promotion)
First in league 2013/2014
Leerkracht [which translates as teacher]
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 2013 – februari 2014 (6 maanden) Gent en omgeving, België
Even more intiguing is that although he was apparently born in 1977 his first professional entry on his LinkedIn page says he was:
Leerkracht
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 1998 – augustus 2008 (10 jaar) Gent en omgeving, België
i.e. a teacher again between September 1998 to August 2008 when he would have been between 11 and 21 years old - quite a remarkable achievement.
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa
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He'd have been 21-31, which makes sense.micks1950 said:
If you look at his LinkedIn page he also worked as a teacher while managing/coaching Eendracht Zele:Atletico Addick said:Charles Fraeye brought Zele first provincial to the top of the fourth class. Fraeye, formerly the youth of AA Gent and trained through Zottegem landed in Zele.
Was made aware of the Hart moving on, Riga to head of academy and Fraeye to lead us a couple months back. it would be hugely worrying to say the least. If it wasn't for Dyers and Matthews work behind the scenes and with player help I don't think Riga would look quite so magical too, good football brain but doesn't mean you get results, tough league to break into after coaching amateurs and kids.
Head Football Coach
KFC Eendracht Zele
juli 2011 – maart 2014 (2 jaar 9 maanden) Zele
Champions in 2011/2012 (promotion)
First in league 2013/2014
Leerkracht [which translates as teacher]
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 2013 – februari 2014 (6 maanden) Gent en omgeving, België
Even more intiguing is that although he was apparently born in 1977 his first professional entry on his LinkedIn page says he was:
Leerkracht
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 1998 – augustus 2008 (10 jaar) Gent en omgeving, België
i.e. a teacher again between September 1998 to August 2008 when he would have been between 11 and 21 years old - quite a remarkable achievement.
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa0 -
If this thread is here for speculation and rumour, I'm out.0
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Hopefully he was studying the English Football League and the history of Charlton Athletic Football Club, if so I'll give him a chance. :--) But only if he's fully qualified for the job with the right badges...1
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My mistake Airman.Airman Brown said:
He'd have been 21-31, which makes sense.micks1950 said:
If you look at his LinkedIn page he also worked as a teacher while managing/coaching Eendracht Zele:Atletico Addick said:Charles Fraeye brought Zele first provincial to the top of the fourth class. Fraeye, formerly the youth of AA Gent and trained through Zottegem landed in Zele.
Was made aware of the Hart moving on, Riga to head of academy and Fraeye to lead us a couple months back. it would be hugely worrying to say the least. If it wasn't for Dyers and Matthews work behind the scenes and with player help I don't think Riga would look quite so magical too, good football brain but doesn't mean you get results, tough league to break into after coaching amateurs and kids.
Head Football Coach
KFC Eendracht Zele
juli 2011 – maart 2014 (2 jaar 9 maanden) Zele
Champions in 2011/2012 (promotion)
First in league 2013/2014
Leerkracht [which translates as teacher]
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 2013 – februari 2014 (6 maanden) Gent en omgeving, België
Even more intiguing is that although he was apparently born in 1977 his first professional entry on his LinkedIn page says he was:
Leerkracht
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 1998 – augustus 2008 (10 jaar) Gent en omgeving, België
i.e. a teacher again between September 1998 to August 2008 when he would have been between 11 and 21 years old - quite a remarkable achievement.
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa
However, I'd be interested in your take on why he was recruited when Dyer and Mathew remained in post, and his football CV in general - particularly the claims by cantersaddick and Swisdom above that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?
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No idea whatsoever, although he was already observing matches for RD from the directors box before Chris Powell was sacked. I think it's quite right to attribute credit across the management team for Charlton staying up, although of course impossible to know in what proportion. Riga as head coach gets the plaudits, but we may never know what influence the others had, except that it is unlikely to be none.micks1950 said:
My mistake Airman.Airman Brown said:
He'd have been 21-31, which makes sense.micks1950 said:
If you look at his LinkedIn page he also worked as a teacher while managing/coaching Eendracht Zele:Atletico Addick said:Charles Fraeye brought Zele first provincial to the top of the fourth class. Fraeye, formerly the youth of AA Gent and trained through Zottegem landed in Zele.
Was made aware of the Hart moving on, Riga to head of academy and Fraeye to lead us a couple months back. it would be hugely worrying to say the least. If it wasn't for Dyers and Matthews work behind the scenes and with player help I don't think Riga would look quite so magical too, good football brain but doesn't mean you get results, tough league to break into after coaching amateurs and kids.
Head Football Coach
KFC Eendracht Zele
juli 2011 – maart 2014 (2 jaar 9 maanden) Zele
Champions in 2011/2012 (promotion)
First in league 2013/2014
Leerkracht [which translates as teacher]
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 2013 – februari 2014 (6 maanden) Gent en omgeving, België
Even more intiguing is that although he was apparently born in 1977 his first professional entry on his LinkedIn page says he was:
Leerkracht
Sint-Janscollege
Educatieve instelling; 51-200 werknemers; Bedrijfstak Education Management
september 1998 – augustus 2008 (10 jaar) Gent en omgeving, België
i.e. a teacher again between September 1998 to August 2008 when he would have been between 11 and 21 years old - quite a remarkable achievement.
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa
However, I'd be interested in your take on why he was recruited when Dyer and Mathew remained in post, and his football CV in general - particularly the claims by cantersaddick and Swisdom above that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?3 -
Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.
Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.
In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition
Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players. The following is taken from an article in the Guardian in 2010
"Three years ago an official report concluded that coaching is the "golden thread" leading to international success, but new Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.
Between them those four nations have provided eight of the 12 finalists at all the World Cups and European Championships since 1998. England, meanwhile, have not appeared in a tournament final in 44 years.
There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
Three years ago Richard Lewis – the Rugby Football League chairman who was commissioned to lead a joint youth-development study for the Football Association, Premier League and Football League – concluded: "It is no coincidence that sports achieving success on the international stage place great store on quality coaching – not just at the highest level but right throughout the athlete and player development pathway."
He recommended that "the system of coaching and player development should be so enhanced that there is an increasing stream of better young players qualified to play for England – players who have been better coached from a very young age, and who have the technical, physical and mental skills to succeed at the very highest international level."
Yet in the two years following Lewis's Review of Young Player Development in Professional Football, comparatively few had progressed on the coaching pathway. Uefa's census in July 2006 found there to be 1,430 Uefa B-qualified coaches in England, 397 with the A badge and only 45 with Pro licences. In the October 2009 study those numbers had crept up to 1,759, to 895 and to 115 respectively.
Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here.
At the current rate of progress it will take 123 years for England's resource of Pro-licensed coaches to match Spain's today.
In essence therefore while I have no inside information it would not surprise me under a European model there may well be roles for Fraeye, Dyer and Matthew within the Charlton family going forward
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There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
Wow
Certainly says a lot0 -
WowSwisdom said:There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
Certainly says a lot
It does, and this part of the European approach seems to me to be a step forward. However I wonder if RD will stomach the wage costs for the set up Grapevine describes, especially if that means there is still a Head Coach picking the team, masterminding tactics, and managing from the touchline. If so, and that was Riga, I'd be happy enough to see how that goes.
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That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:Grapevine49 said:Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.
Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.
In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition
Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.
Trainer - Scouting - Management
KAA Gent
januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent
Trainer U15/U16/2nd team
Scouting - recruting
Management Academy
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa
Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.
And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that
"Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.
and
"There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......
Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".
The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?
Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.
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Maybe it is the other way rd
Riga first team KF youth and watching and learning2 -
If that were the case - with Dyer and Mathew remaining in place - wouldn't it have made more sense to place Fraeye within the Academy straight away, instead of making him 'Assistant Head Coach' for a couple of months and then moving him?nth london addick said:Maybe it is the other way rd
Riga first team KF youth and watching and learning
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WowSwisdom said:There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.
Certainly says a lot
I wonder what the reason is though? Is it more expensive over here to start out in coaching? I know Stan Collymore was calling for the basic levels of coaching (Level 1) to be offered for free by the FA. His thought which I agree with is that you start improving standards from the bottom and it has a knock-on effect upwards. Surely we have as many people interested in coaching as other European countries, what is it that stops us?0
