If what Bertje said about Fraeye is genuine, I'd definitely like him to be in charge rather than Hasselbaink....
Yep, no need for any further evidence or to look at his credentials. A faceless poster from Belgium has posted on a forum so let's appoint him right this minute. Erm, I did say IF what he said is true. That was the important presumption!
Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.
Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.
In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition
Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.
That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:
Trainer - Scouting - Management KAA Gent januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent Trainer U15/U16/2nd team Scouting - recruting Management Academy
Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.
And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that
"Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.
and
"There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......
Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".
The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?
Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.
And below is Mr Mourinho's football career
And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51) Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1] Playing position Central midfielder Club information Current club Chelsea (manager) Senior career* Years Team Apps† (Gls)† 1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2) 1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2) 1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1) 1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
Perhaps the Hasselbaink rumour is spread so that if / when Charlton get Karel Fraeye, Charlton supporters will be very pleased that that it is Karel Fraeye and not Hasselbaink ?!
The most logical thing would be to allow Riga to continue what he has started for at least another season. Karel can then be helping, observing and learning in the background before stepping up to the main role.
Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.
Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.
In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition
Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.
That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:
Trainer - Scouting - Management KAA Gent januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent Trainer U15/U16/2nd team Scouting - recruting Management Academy
Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.
And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that
"Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.
and
"There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......
Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".
The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?
Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.
And below is Mr Mourinho's football career
And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51) Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1] Playing position Central midfielder Club information Current club Chelsea (manager) Senior career* Years Team Apps† (Gls)† 1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2) 1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2) 1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1) 1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
I'm a bit confused as to what your point is?
Are you suggesting that it wasn't reasonable for me to ask questions about the qualifications of someone who it is rumoured might be our next manager?
Or because you've cut & pasted the limited football background of a very successful manager that we should assume that anyone else with a similar background will also be successful?
The most logical thing would be to allow Riga to continue what he has started for at least another season. Karel can then be helping, observing and learning in the background before stepping up to the main role.
It may depend on what happens with the Academy. It would be interesting to see a Charlton pre season with Riga and his training regieme and ideas. Chris Solly in his interview says that he would like Riga to run the pre season. It may encourage some of the younger players to sign. Roland seems to accept / trust Riga's judgements more easily. The players seem to be happy. The team under Riga has played more open and passing football.
Karel Fraeye is a bit of an unknown quantity and it is unclear as to how it will go and whether he will sink or swim.
The most logical thing would be to allow Riga to continue what he has started for at least another season. Karel can then be helping, observing and learning in the background before stepping up to the main role.
It may depend on what happens with the Academy. It would be interesting to see a Charlton pre season with Riga and his training regieme and ideas. Chris Solly in his interview says that he would like Riga to run the pre season. It may encourage some of the younger players to sign. Roland seems to accept / trust Riga's judgements more easily. The players seem to be happy. The team under Riga has played more open and passing football.
Karel Fraeye is a bit of an unknown quantity and it is unclear as to how it will go and whether he will sink or swim.
I understand what you're saying and I agree. The only thing I wanted to say is that Fraeye is qualified, talented and a typical head coach. What do I know about who's being the best head coach for your club. Good luck with today's game and hopefully you all have a great next season. I'll be back to see some games. Belgian Bertje
Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.
Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.
Surely if that is the plan Dyer and Matthew's role in our survival would put them in a good position to retain their roles.
As others have speculated I suspect that certainly Dyer may leave voluntarily and join Powell when he re-emerges somewhere.
Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.
Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.
In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition
Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.
That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:
Trainer - Scouting - Management KAA Gent januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent Trainer U15/U16/2nd team Scouting - recruting Management Academy
Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.
And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that
"Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.
and
"There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......
Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".
The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?
Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.
And below is Mr Mourinho's football career
And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51) Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1] Playing position Central midfielder Club information Current club Chelsea (manager) Senior career* Years Team Apps† (Gls)† 1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2) 1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2) 1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1) 1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
I'm a bit confused as to what your point is?
Are you suggesting that it wasn't reasonable for me to ask questions about the qualifications of someone who it is rumoured might be our next manager?
Or because you've cut & pasted the limited football background of a very successful manager that we should assume that anyone else with a similar background will also be successful?
Or both?
My only point is that not all successful managers have had much of a career on the pitch. Lawrie McMenemy for Southampton years ago being another. Having said all that I think it is probably more benefit having played the game to a certain standard.
Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.
Surely if that is the plan Dyer and Matthew's role in our survival would put them in a good position to retain their roles.
That's entirely possible, of course. My point was twofold.
First, Dyer and Matthew were kept on, quite rightly, because of their specific knowledge of the Charlton squad and of the Championship more generally and not necessarily for their coaching skills per se.
Second, Duchatelet, Riga et al, clearly have a view about the development of players and, in turn, this is apparently a core part of the strategy for the Club. Fraeye would appear to be part of that vision while traditional British coaching/management probably isn't.
If Dyer/Matthew have demonstrated that they fit with the Club's plans that's great. I was simply suggesting it might not be clear cut.
Just bumping this thread after being directed here by @micks1950
I feel that there is a certain amount of arrogance from our Belgian friends – a belief that their way is better, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. Admittedly, the number of top class Belgian players that have emerged in the last few years indicates that their youth coaching set-up is excellent. But I'm not sure that this necessarily means that everyone working in Belgian football is therefore more capable than their counterparts from other countries.
Personally I would find it embarrassing if an English owner took over a foreign club, and proceeded to employ only English people to senior positions, and then to only recruit English players (or players well known in England). It demonstrates a narrow way of thinking, a lack of research and an inability to take advice from those who understand the particular challenges of the local game.
The comments about Fraeye on page 3 of this thread suggest that he is some kind of latent genius. He might well be, and I would be happy to eat my words in the coming months/years, but the limited evidence that we have suggests otherwise. It might be the case that his players at VW Hamme were simply not good enough for him to try out his ideas, but then surely part of what makes a great coach is the ability to make the most of the assets he has available?
This appointment is very worrying. Fraeye might be a great bloke - personable, friendly, and intelligent. But that doesn't mean he'll be a great head coach for us.
I'll end with a quote from Bertje's first post: "Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows?" Frankly, no. This blinkered, arrogant, bordering on xenophobic attitude is what has got us into this mess.
I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders. When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.
I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know. But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) . I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area. As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player. From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility. He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach. First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach. He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team. Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest. He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school. His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually. You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.
Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels. And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows? And at a very good price/quality rate.
Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong. Good luck!
I have been lucky to have conversations with Karel, usually before most home games, he always seemed to notice when I was nervous about a game, he clearly had confidence in the team, which usually managed to calm some of my nerves, and he was genuinely pleased that we had reached safety on Tuesday night, he is approachable, really got to like him, and hope he will be around in some capacity next season.
I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders. When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.
I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know. But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) . I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area. As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player. From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility. He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach. First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach. He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team. Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest. He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school. His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually. You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.
Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels. And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows? And at a very good price/quality rate.
Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong. Good luck!
I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders. When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.
I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know. But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) . I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area. As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player. From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility. He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach. First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach. He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team. Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest. He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school. His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually. You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.
Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels. And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows? And at a very good price/quality rate.
Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong. Good luck!
I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
Nope agree with you... Sounds like a Belgian version of Eddie Howe or Damien Matthew (certainly when it says about injury meaning he never really had a Football career)
I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
It is the hope that gets you.
He would not recognise another Championship team if he saw them. He has no contacts in the UK and no idea who is available unless he can find Phil Chapels notes somewhere etc etc etc.
Just so disappointing. If it was part of a plan he should have been here learning. It is just a fingers crossed appointment.
Nope agree with you... Sounds like a Belgian version of Eddie Howe or Damien Matthew (certainly when it says about injury meaning he never really had a Football career)
Lennie Lawrence and Mark Warburton....they both turned out alright. And in Lawrence's case, you could argue he inherited a worse mess than Karel Fraeye. We were shit AND skint.
Not for one moment am I saying that Karel Fraeye is going to be as good as Alex Ferguson / Jose Mourinho.
What I am saying is that we're a club that'll NEVER be able to hire a Manager thats as good as Ferguson or Mourinho when they're in their prime, instead what we can try and do is hire an unknown coach who might turn out to have the ability to rise to become a great Manager one day.
So as a club the size of Charlton, we can either hire the usual merry-go-round Candidates (Paul Lambert / Malky Mackay / Paul Ince etc. who have proved that they've got limits to what they can achieve), or we can try going for another unknown quantity
We tried it with Guy Luzon, it didn't work so we move on and try the next guy.
You never know it means that one day, people will talk of how X Manager started their career at Charlton (like how Jose Mourinho started @ Uniao) and went on to better and bigger things, or will we be known as a team like Blackburn who didnt have the balls to try and sign Zidane or messed up trying to get Lewandowski
That piece does sound promising and I don't doubt for one minute he has something about him but that doesn't explain to me at least why this 37 year old coach is still plodding around in the Belgian third division. It's not like he's 30 and just left his playing days behind him. He's been a coach for a while so why the lowly status.
He is not what we need right now. I would have no problem with him coming in to work as assistant to an experienced head coach. Learn the English game and see where it leads for him and us. Perhaps that is the plan ? Caretaker and then number two. The problem is that RD isn't thinking about it that way. He doesn't seem to value experience or local knowledge.
When he left Charlton last time didn't he say he would be back. Perhaps RD told him he was next on the list so just keep yourself busy until the call comes.
Comments
Erm, I did say IF what he said is true. That was the important presumption!
And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix
Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51)
Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal
Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1]
Playing position Central midfielder
Club information
Current club Chelsea (manager)
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2)
1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2)
1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1)
1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
Are you suggesting that it wasn't reasonable for me to ask questions about the qualifications of someone who it is rumoured might be our next manager?
Or because you've cut & pasted the limited football background of a very successful manager that we should assume that anyone else with a similar background will also be successful?
Or both?
Karel Fraeye is a bit of an unknown quantity and it is unclear as to how it will go and whether he will sink or swim.
The only thing I wanted to say is that Fraeye is qualified, talented and a typical head coach.
What do I know about who's being the best head coach for your club.
Good luck with today's game and hopefully you all have a great next season.
I'll be back to see some games.
Belgian Bertje
As others have speculated I suspect that certainly Dyer may leave voluntarily and join Powell when he re-emerges somewhere.
Having said all that I think it is probably more benefit having played the game to a certain standard.
First, Dyer and Matthew were kept on, quite rightly, because of their specific knowledge of the Charlton squad and of the Championship more generally and not necessarily for their coaching skills per se.
Second, Duchatelet, Riga et al, clearly have a view about the development of players and, in turn, this is apparently a core part of the strategy for the Club. Fraeye would appear to be part of that vision while traditional British coaching/management probably isn't.
If Dyer/Matthew have demonstrated that they fit with the Club's plans that's great. I was simply suggesting it might not be clear cut.
I feel that there is a certain amount of arrogance from our Belgian friends – a belief that their way is better, despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. Admittedly, the number of top class Belgian players that have emerged in the last few years indicates that their youth coaching set-up is excellent. But I'm not sure that this necessarily means that everyone working in Belgian football is therefore more capable than their counterparts from other countries.
Personally I would find it embarrassing if an English owner took over a foreign club, and proceeded to employ only English people to senior positions, and then to only recruit English players (or players well known in England). It demonstrates a narrow way of thinking, a lack of research and an inability to take advice from those who understand the particular challenges of the local game.
The comments about Fraeye on page 3 of this thread suggest that he is some kind of latent genius. He might well be, and I would be happy to eat my words in the coming months/years, but the limited evidence that we have suggests otherwise. It might be the case that his players at VW Hamme were simply not good enough for him to try out his ideas, but then surely part of what makes a great coach is the ability to make the most of the assets he has available?
This appointment is very worrying. Fraeye might be a great bloke - personable, friendly, and intelligent. But that doesn't mean he'll be a great head coach for us.
I'll end with a quote from Bertje's first post: "Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows?" Frankly, no. This blinkered, arrogant, bordering on xenophobic attitude is what has got us into this mess.
I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
It is the hope that gets you.
He would not recognise another Championship team if he saw them. He has no contacts in the UK and no idea who is available unless he can find Phil Chapels notes somewhere etc etc etc.
Just so disappointing. If it was part of a plan he should have been here learning. It is just a fingers crossed appointment.
Nope agree with you... Sounds like a Belgian version of Eddie Howe or Damien Matthew (certainly when it says about injury meaning he never really had a Football career)
Lennie Lawrence and Mark Warburton....they both turned out alright. And in Lawrence's case, you could argue he inherited a worse mess than Karel Fraeye. We were shit AND skint.
What I am saying is that we're a club that'll NEVER be able to hire a Manager thats as good as Ferguson or Mourinho when they're in their prime, instead what we can try and do is hire an unknown coach who might turn out to have the ability to rise to become a great Manager one day.
So as a club the size of Charlton, we can either hire the usual merry-go-round Candidates (Paul Lambert / Malky Mackay / Paul Ince etc. who have proved that they've got limits to what they can achieve), or we can try going for another unknown quantity
We tried it with Guy Luzon, it didn't work so we move on and try the next guy.
You never know it means that one day, people will talk of how X Manager started their career at Charlton (like how Jose Mourinho started @ Uniao) and went on to better and bigger things, or will we be known as a team like Blackburn who didnt have the balls to try and sign Zidane or messed up trying to get Lewandowski
He is not what we need right now. I would have no problem with him coming in to work as assistant to an experienced head coach. Learn the English game and see where it leads for him and us. Perhaps that is the plan ? Caretaker and then number two. The problem is that RD isn't thinking about it that way. He doesn't seem to value experience or local knowledge.
As said. It's the hope that gets you.