Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Karel Fraeye

12357

Comments

  • edited May 2014

    If what Bertje said about Fraeye is genuine, I'd definitely like him to be in charge rather than Hasselbaink....
    Yep, no need for any further evidence or to look at his credentials. A faceless poster from Belgium has posted on a forum so let's appoint him right this minute.
    Erm, I did say IF what he said is true. That was the important presumption!
  • micks1950 said:

    Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.

    Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.

    In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition

    Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.

    That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:

    Trainer - Scouting - Management
    KAA Gent
    januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent
    Trainer U15/U16/2nd team
    Scouting - recruting
    Management Academy

    http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa

    Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.

    And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that

    "Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.

    and

    "There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......

    Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".

    The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?

    Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.



    And below is Mr Mourinho's football career

    And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix
    Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51)
    Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal
    Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1]
    Playing position Central midfielder
    Club information
    Current club Chelsea (manager)
    Senior career*
    Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
    1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2)
    1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2)
    1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1)
    1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
  • If what Bertje said about Fraeye is genuine, I'd definitely like him to be in charge rather than Hasselbaink....

    THIS!
  • Perhaps the Hasselbaink rumour is spread so that if / when Charlton get Karel Fraeye, Charlton supporters will be very pleased that that it is Karel Fraeye and not Hasselbaink ?!
  • The most logical thing would be to allow Riga to continue what he has started for at least another season. Karel can then be helping, observing and learning in the background before stepping up to the main role.
  • micks1950 said:

    Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.

    Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.

    In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition

    Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.

    That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:

    Trainer - Scouting - Management
    KAA Gent
    januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent
    Trainer U15/U16/2nd team
    Scouting - recruting
    Management Academy

    http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa

    Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.

    And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that

    "Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.

    and

    "There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......

    Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".

    The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?

    Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.



    And below is Mr Mourinho's football career

    And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix
    Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51)
    Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal
    Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1]
    Playing position Central midfielder
    Club information
    Current club Chelsea (manager)
    Senior career*
    Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
    1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2)
    1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2)
    1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1)
    1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
    I'm a bit confused as to what your point is?

    Are you suggesting that it wasn't reasonable for me to ask questions about the qualifications of someone who it is rumoured might be our next manager?

    Or because you've cut & pasted the limited football background of a very successful manager that we should assume that anyone else with a similar background will also be successful?

    Or both?

  • The most logical thing would be to allow Riga to continue what he has started for at least another season. Karel can then be helping, observing and learning in the background before stepping up to the main role.

    It may depend on what happens with the Academy. It would be interesting to see a Charlton pre season with Riga and his training regieme and ideas. Chris Solly in his interview says that he would like Riga to run the pre season. It may encourage some of the younger players to sign. Roland seems to accept / trust Riga's judgements more easily. The players seem to be happy. The team under Riga has played more open and passing football.

    Karel Fraeye is a bit of an unknown quantity and it is unclear as to how it will go and whether he will sink or swim.
  • edited May 2014
    Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.
  • edited May 2014

    Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.

    Surely if that is the plan Dyer and Matthew's role in our survival would put them in a good position to retain their roles.

    As others have speculated I suspect that certainly Dyer may leave voluntarily and join Powell when he re-emerges somewhere.

  • Sponsored links:


  • micks1950 said:

    micks1950 said:

    Karel Fraeye (aged 36) has been a football coach since 1997 - starting at a very modest regional level - at F.C. DESTELBERGEN. He spent then 7yrs at KAA Gent (La Gantoise) in the Belgian Pro League - 1yr KSV Sottegam (Regional football) - who he left allegedly because he and several others (players) were not getting paid, before moving on to KFC Eendracht Zele in 2011.

    Local references suggest he was well thought of, by both of his previous clubs and had made a success (due to financial necessity) of bringing through the younger players.

    In effect he has no professional playing profile but has been involved in coaching at a professional or semi professional level for 16yrs which suggests his resume is more akin to a Lenny Lawrence or our own Steve Avory. The other aspect we need to recognise that coaches in Europe come a very significant pool of talent/competition

    Much as many malign the European "Coaching" model there is a significant disparity in how the different countries view the development of the game and its players.

    That's very informative, but on his LinkedIn page apart from his recent spell at Eendracht Zele he only mentions his time at KAA Gent:

    Trainer - Scouting - Management
    KAA Gent
    januari 2004 – maart 2011 (7 jaar 3 maanden) Gent
    Trainer U15/U16/2nd team
    Scouting - recruting
    Management Academy

    http://be.linkedin.com/pub/karel-fraeye/83/2b6/5aa

    Plus it seems that all of these positions were part time as he also lists working as a school teacher throughout the period.

    And in relation to the Guardian article you cite while it may be true that

    "Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.

    and

    "There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135......

    Spain have almost as many Pro-licensed coaches as there are English coaches of any stripe: 2,140 as against 2,769. Again, the ratios of available Pro-licensed coaches to players show an alarming gulf between England and the top-ranked football nation – 1:190 in Spain, 1:19,565 here".

    The question I asked was whether Fraeye is one of these many european Uefa-qualified coaches? As I said cantersaddick claimed above (and Swisdom seems to corroborate) that he "has no coaching qualifications whatsoever"?

    Fraeye may be an excellent coach (and a very nice man) for all I know, but if, as a number of sources suggest, he may be our next manager with Riga replacing Hart, then I think it's reasonable to ask questions about his football pedigree - as I think we would do if it were rumoured that the next manager might be a part time, possibly unqualified coach, of an amateur or semi-professional conference level English club.



    And below is Mr Mourinho's football career

    And Full name José Mário dos Santos Mourinho Félix
    Date of birth 26 January 1963 (age 51)
    Place of birth Setúbal, Portugal
    Height 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in)[1]
    Playing position Central midfielder
    Club information
    Current club Chelsea (manager)
    Senior career*
    Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
    1980–1982 Rio Ave 16 (2)
    1982–1983 Belenenses 16 (2)
    1983–1985 Sesimbra 35 (1)
    1985–1987 Comércio e Indústria 27 (8this Mr Mourinho's football career
    I'm a bit confused as to what your point is?

    Are you suggesting that it wasn't reasonable for me to ask questions about the qualifications of someone who it is rumoured might be our next manager?

    Or because you've cut & pasted the limited football background of a very successful manager that we should assume that anyone else with a similar background will also be successful?

    Or both?

    My only point is that not all successful managers have had much of a career on the pitch. Lawrie McMenemy for Southampton years ago being another.
    Having said all that I think it is probably more benefit having played the game to a certain standard.
  • Richard J said:

    Given the background and experience of the individuals involved an obvious strategy for the Owner might be for Riga to remain as Head Coach for a season (or two) with Fraeye as his assistant. When the timing is right Fraeye would then step up to Head Coach with Riga becoming Director of Football for the network as a whole, perhaps with a particular focus on Youth Development. Not sure what this means for Dyer and Matthew, but it may not auger well.

    Surely if that is the plan Dyer and Matthew's role in our survival would put them in a good position to retain their roles.


    That's entirely possible, of course. My point was twofold.

    First, Dyer and Matthew were kept on, quite rightly, because of their specific knowledge of the Charlton squad and of the Championship more generally and not necessarily for their coaching skills per se.

    Second, Duchatelet, Riga et al, clearly have a view about the development of players and, in turn, this is apparently a core part of the strategy for the Club. Fraeye would appear to be part of that vision while traditional British coaching/management probably isn't.

    If Dyer/Matthew have demonstrated that they fit with the Club's plans that's great. I was simply suggesting it might not be clear cut.
  • His new team play their first league game tonight VW Hamme
  • His new team play their first league game tonight VW Hamme

    Who does he Manage now?
  • he is head coach at VW Hamme in Belgium
  • Ahh cheers... Sorry thought you said that his new team were playing AGAINST VW Hamme
  • Hope he isn't used as the piggy in the middle there
  • Bertje said:

    I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders.
    When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.

    I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know.
    But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) .
    I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area.
    As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player.
    From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility.
    He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach.
    First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach.
    He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team.
    Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest.
    He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school.
    His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually.
    You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. :)
    If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.

    Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels.
    And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows?
    And at a very good price/quality rate.

    Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong.
    Good luck!

  • Sponsored links:


  • PeteF said:

    I have been lucky to have conversations with Karel, usually before most home games, he always seemed to notice when I was nervous about a game, he clearly had confidence in the team, which usually managed to calm some of my nerves, and he was genuinely pleased that we had reached safety on Tuesday night, he is approachable, really got to like him, and hope he will be around in some capacity next season.

  • Bertje said:

    I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders.
    When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.

    I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know.
    But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) .
    I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area.
    As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player.
    From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility.
    He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach.
    First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach.
    He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team.
    Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest.
    He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school.
    His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually.
    You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. :)
    If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.

    Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels.
    And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows?
    And at a very good price/quality rate.

    Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong.
    Good luck!

    I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
  • edited October 2015
    uie2 said:

    Bertje said:

    I'm a manager of a Belgian team and I'm following talented young players and coaches in the area of Flanders.
    When I googled Fraeye and Charlton I saw this big forum.

    I think it's normal that you addicks are hoping for an experienced head coach that you already know.
    But don't underestimate Roland Duchatelet and the young coaches he's bringing ( like the former unknown coach Guy Luzon who's still making a chance to get Standard into the Champions League) .
    I'm following Karel Fraeyes career and he's a talented, typical head coach. I've never seen a more talented young coach in our area.
    As a young player, he had an accident that made an end at a possible career as a player.
    From then, he started being a coach in all the youth teams and every year, his former teams gave him more responsibility.
    He became youth manager of AA Gent (highest Belgian level) and different teams of 3th and 4th division wanted him as a head coach.
    First he made a wrong choice with Sottegem ( players didn't get paid) but then he chose Zele because there, he got the opportunity to build a new team. Young talented players were coming to Zele because he became head coach.
    He won the titel and this year he was in first position to gain a new title with almost the same team.
    Higher playing teams were getting prepared to try to get him in but Duchatelet was the smartest and quickest.
    He worked as a teacher and became at a younger age director of a school.
    His strongest part is reading the game and coaching and motivating players as a team or individually.
    You know: Some Belgian first and second class teams were saying: why does a talented coach as Fraeye chooses for Duchatelet and Charlton if he has opportunities in the Belgian first division. So they are underestimating Charlton and the championship too. :)
    If they make Fraeye head coach: he will fully use the talent of the Charlton staff and players and he 'll get the best out of the squad.

    Every great player and every great coach once was unexperienced at higher levels.
    And you are right: Maybe Duchatelet doesn't know the better English coaches.. So isn't it normal that he plays it safe at his point of view and chooses good coaches he knows?
    And at a very good price/quality rate.

    Whatever it will be: I hope your beautiful club will get back in the premier league where you belong.
    Good luck!

    I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising
    Nope agree with you... Sounds like a Belgian version of Eddie Howe or Damien Matthew (certainly when it says about injury meaning he never really had a Football career)




  • I'm gonna probably be the only Charlton fan to like what you said! But sounds promising

    It is the hope that gets you.

    He would not recognise another Championship team if he saw them. He has no contacts in the UK and no idea who is available unless he can find Phil Chapels notes somewhere etc etc etc.

    Just so disappointing. If it was part of a plan he should have been here learning. It is just a fingers crossed appointment.

  • edited October 2015
    Forever said...

    Nope agree with you... Sounds like a Belgian version of Eddie Howe or Damien Matthew (certainly when it says about injury meaning he never really had a Football career)

    Lennie Lawrence and Mark Warburton....they both turned out alright. And in Lawrence's case, you could argue he inherited a worse mess than Karel Fraeye. We were shit AND skint.
  • Not for one moment am I saying that Karel Fraeye is going to be as good as Alex Ferguson / Jose Mourinho.

    What I am saying is that we're a club that'll NEVER be able to hire a Manager thats as good as Ferguson or Mourinho when they're in their prime, instead what we can try and do is hire an unknown coach who might turn out to have the ability to rise to become a great Manager one day.

    So as a club the size of Charlton, we can either hire the usual merry-go-round Candidates (Paul Lambert / Malky Mackay / Paul Ince etc. who have proved that they've got limits to what they can achieve), or we can try going for another unknown quantity

    We tried it with Guy Luzon, it didn't work so we move on and try the next guy.

    You never know it means that one day, people will talk of how X Manager started their career at Charlton (like how Jose Mourinho started @ Uniao) and went on to better and bigger things, or will we be known as a team like Blackburn who didnt have the balls to try and sign Zidane or messed up trying to get Lewandowski
  • edited October 2015
    That piece does sound promising and I don't doubt for one minute he has something about him but that doesn't explain to me at least why this 37 year old coach is still plodding around in the Belgian third division. It's not like he's 30 and just left his playing days behind him. He's been a coach for a while so why the lowly status.

    He is not what we need right now. I would have no problem with him coming in to work as assistant to an experienced head coach. Learn the English game and see where it leads for him and us. Perhaps that is the plan ? Caretaker and then number two. The problem is that RD isn't thinking about it that way. He doesn't seem to value experience or local knowledge.

    As said. It's the hope that gets you.
  • When he left Charlton last time didn't he say he would be back. Perhaps RD told him he was next on the list so just keep yourself busy until the call comes.
  • It doesn't matter what his abilities are. He will not be backed by the owner to assemble a decent squad.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!