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Arla milk
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That's an uncharacteristically shrill response from you there Mr @PeanutsMolloy, especially given I've always understood your professional expertise to be in financial markets.PeanutsMolloy said:Garrymanilow said:
Humans produce about 1L of flatus a day, 7% of which is methane. Cows produce 250-500L per day. There's about 1.5 billion cows, meaning 120 million metric tonnes per year of methane emitted by cows. For humans it's more like 0.5 million metric tonnes per year. Methane's contribution to climate change is about 80 times more powerful than CO2, though the atmosphere breaks methane down into CO2 eventually anyway so still bad. There's also the fact that far less CO2 is being absorbed by forests because this ridiculous number of cows require somewhere to be and that involves massive deforestation. The cows aren't the whole problem, fossil fuel emissions and there just being too many humans is the main contributor but reducing the contribution of methane to climate change through cattle farming is one way to mitigate itShowmetheway2gohome said:Cows piracy I’ve been told not to believe these conspiracies. Ha ha you couldn’t make this shit up.why are we all not having to take this drug to save the planet. We all fart don’t we.
Staggering amount of twaddle on this thread from the self-proclaimed "critical thinkers".
A simple fact:
Methane from cows breaks down into natural CO2 and water after 10-12 years. It is part of the natural carbon cycle. Grass absorbs the CO2 by photosynthesis and the cycle repeatedly continues.
Cows are, and always have been, environmentally sustainable.
I've been reluctant to accept this issue as a problem myself, but if I'm honest its simply because I'm British, from the big city, and brought up to believe that cows grazing contentedly in meadows in a green and pleasant land is a wonderful thing.
Recently I started using two AI models, Claude.ai and Perplexity.ai. I just asked them both the same question:
"How clear is the evidence that methane from cows is a significant concern in respect of climate change?"
Anyone can do that, and read the full answers but the two I have are pretty similar. Both speak of robust evidence, but with mitigation, including differences according to farmering process.
Here is part of Claude's answer:According to scientific assessments, cattle and other ruminant livestock account for roughly 14.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Of this, about 40% comes from enteric fermentation. Methane is particularly concerning because while it stays in the atmosphere for a shorter time than CO2 (about 12 years versus centuries), it is approximately 28-34 times more potent as a greenhouse gas over a 100-year period.
However, there are some nuances worth considering:
First, methane from cattle is part of a biogenic carbon cycle - the carbon they emit originally came from plants they ate, which absorbed it from the atmosphere. This is different from fossil methane, though the warming effect is the same.
Second, the impact varies significantly based on farming practices. Intensive factory farming tends to concentrate emissions, while well-managed grazing can potentially help sequester carbon in soil.
Third, emission levels vary considerably by region and production system. For example, dairy cows in developed countries often produce more methane per animal but are also more efficient in terms of emissions per unit of food produced.
In short, as usual with science it's not black and white. However, the concerns are certainly not "twaddle", unlike the methane emitted from the cast of appalling characters leaping on Arla, starting with Farage and Tice.
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It can be argued that ‘nature’ has allowed humankind language and the ability to think in complex ways, including the ability to think morally.
If I am right, then veganism and vegetarianism is a product of the natural world.2 -
CO2 is a greenhouse gas, it remains in the atmosphere and traps heat warming the earth. I always remember from my O & A level geography lessons being taught that this actually makes the earth habitable as it would otherwise be too cold for life.PeanutsMolloy said:Garrymanilow said:
Humans produce about 1L of flatus a day, 7% of which is methane. Cows produce 250-500L per day. There's about 1.5 billion cows, meaning 120 million metric tonnes per year of methane emitted by cows. For humans it's more like 0.5 million metric tonnes per year. Methane's contribution to climate change is about 80 times more powerful than CO2, though the atmosphere breaks methane down into CO2 eventually anyway so still bad. There's also the fact that far less CO2 is being absorbed by forests because this ridiculous number of cows require somewhere to be and that involves massive deforestation. The cows aren't the whole problem, fossil fuel emissions and there just being too many humans is the main contributor but reducing the contribution of methane to climate change through cattle farming is one way to mitigate itShowmetheway2gohome said:Cows piracy I’ve been told not to believe these conspiracies. Ha ha you couldn’t make this shit up.why are we all not having to take this drug to save the planet. We all fart don’t we.
Staggering amount of twaddle on this thread from the self-proclaimed "critical thinkers".
A simple fact:
Methane from cows breaks down into natural CO2 and water after 10-12 years. It is part of the natural carbon cycle. Grass absorbs the CO2 by photosynthesis and the cycle repeatedly continues.
Cows are, and always have been, environmentally sustainable.
The problem we have now is that due to the burning of fossil fuels and the huge growth in animal agriculture, all due to the actions of man, we now have have too much CO2 in the atmosphere, which is accelerating climate change beyond out ability to cope with it. We now have far more extreme weather causing a threat to life.6 -
Why have you been eating shit?Showmetheway2gohome said:As Eddie Abbew says
wake the fuck up stop eating this shit.3 -
Do you think beef and dairy farming is harmful to the environment and contributing to climate change?PeanutsMolloy said:Garrymanilow said:
Humans produce about 1L of flatus a day, 7% of which is methane. Cows produce 250-500L per day. There's about 1.5 billion cows, meaning 120 million metric tonnes per year of methane emitted by cows. For humans it's more like 0.5 million metric tonnes per year. Methane's contribution to climate change is about 80 times more powerful than CO2, though the atmosphere breaks methane down into CO2 eventually anyway so still bad. There's also the fact that far less CO2 is being absorbed by forests because this ridiculous number of cows require somewhere to be and that involves massive deforestation. The cows aren't the whole problem, fossil fuel emissions and there just being too many humans is the main contributor but reducing the contribution of methane to climate change through cattle farming is one way to mitigate itShowmetheway2gohome said:Cows piracy I’ve been told not to believe these conspiracies. Ha ha you couldn’t make this shit up.why are we all not having to take this drug to save the planet. We all fart don’t we.
Staggering amount of twaddle on this thread from the self-proclaimed "critical thinkers".
A simple fact:
Methane from cows breaks down into natural CO2 and water after 10-12 years. It is part of the natural carbon cycle. Grass absorbs the CO2 by photosynthesis and the cycle repeatedly continues.
Cows are, and always have been, environmentally sustainable.
If so, and I believe it is and has been proven to be, then us reducing the demand for it isn't dumb.1 -
According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.
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I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.14
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The voice of reason as so often.Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.0 -
Is it healthier to eat small amounts of 'organic' reared meat products rather than the meat replacements do you know?Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.0 -
Bless you WMT! Mr Tatters would disagree tho.Wheresmeticket said:
The voice of reason as so often.Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.3 -
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We aren't designed.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
I don't think we're designed to be vegan. We're supposed to eat animals just nowhere near in the quantity we do.Friend Or Defoe said:
Probably a whoosh from me but i don't get the second point. People say that's bad as well.Huskaris said:Cows milk - Conspiracy to kill everyone
Ultra-processed foods - yeah no worries.
People are stupid, stop listening to them.
Pretty sure cow methane is worse for the environment than flights. It's not the cows on the fields but the battery farming which is where must of us get our beef and milk from.
I think vegans have a great argument and in the future (100 years or so, hopefully sometime after i've gone) they'll out number us so be grateful to be a live in a time where you can have an all you can eat Brazilian barbeque for £20 and vegans are the weird ones!
Tried vegan for 6 months and just seemed to be replacing unprocessed healthy foods with processed food and consuming far too many legumes and pulses etc.
Works for many but not for all and not how nature intends.
Definitely strong argument for higher plant focused diets though.1 -
I don’t know tbh. My guess is that the organic meat would be healthier chemical wise but not sure about the saturated fats.swordfish said:
Is it healthier to eat small amounts of 'organic' reared meat products rather than the meat replacements do you know?Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.0 -
I always wondered why you had that username. It all makes sense now.Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.7 -
I received an email from Milk & More who delivery our milk, stating the dairy farms who supply them do not use this additive., our milk is delivered in glass pint reusable bottles, thus not adding to the plastic container mountain.4
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I had a blood test a few months ago and got an amber for saturated fats. Pretty sure it's the amount of red meat i eat. I'm changing to a more plant based chicken and fish based diet. I'm interested to see how that affects it.Arsenetatters said:
I don’t know tbh. My guess is that the organic meat would be healthier chemical wise but not sure about the saturated fats.swordfish said:
Is it healthier to eat small amounts of 'organic' reared meat products rather than the meat replacements do you know?Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.0 -
Don't tell Ms Rayner as she will use it to ban all animal farming and build more tower blocks on unused farm land, to house an unsustainable growing population. 😊😊😊😊seth plum said:According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.2 -
Would it be possible to sustain the growing population if everybody was vegan/vegetarian?Dansk_Red said:
Don't tell Ms Rayner as she will use it to ban all animal farming and build more tower blocks on unused farm land, to house an unsustainable growing population. 😊😊😊😊seth plum said:According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.
Like using the previously grazed farmland to grow food?1 -
Chicken and fish are lower in saturated fat provided you don’t eat the skin.Friend Or Defoe said:
I had a blood test a few months ago and got an amber for saturated fats. Pretty sure it's the amount of red meat i eat. I'm changing to a more plant based chicken and fish based diet. I'm interested to see how that affects it.Arsenetatters said:
I don’t know tbh. My guess is that the organic meat would be healthier chemical wise but not sure about the saturated fats.swordfish said:
Is it healthier to eat small amounts of 'organic' reared meat products rather than the meat replacements do you know?Arsenetatters said:I try not to be a ‘preachy’ vegan as that’s pretty pointless. It’s like my Mum was with ‘Non Smoking Day’ as she’d smoke 2 at the same time whilst sticking 2 fingers up at it.I’ve been a veggie for most of my life since my first job was in a laboratory analysing meat for antibiotics, growth promoters and other unhealthy chemicals. It put me off for life.However, a vegetarian diet can be really unhealthy- at least mine was. Cheese on everything, dairy products etc. I also felt I couldn’t use the moral argument about animal suffering and eat dairy. So 10 years ago I went vegan. You can be unhealthy as a vegan. There are so many ‘normal’ foods that are ‘accidentally vegan’. Co-op custard doughnuts for one. But that aside I shifted 2 stone without any particular effort. Bloody pressure lowered. I’d recommend it, but avoid the meat ‘replacements’. Just full of crap.If you eat cheese that’s quite a saturated fat food. It’s why some veggies get the same result in their blood tests.1 -
Showmetheway2gohome said:
I see your still talking shit and eating shit then son.Garrymanilow said:
Why have you been eating shit?Showmetheway2gohome said:As Eddie Abbew says
wake the fuck up stop eating this shit.I skip breakfast now because that’s all shit except probably eggs and getting up at 5.45am for work I ain’t messing around doing eggs. So I miss breakfast nowadays.Burn more calories on me morning run now.
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Beef is by far the worst for the environment, the methane and the farmland over forest etc, so even just a lot of people cutting down/avoiding beef and sticking to chicken, pork, fish etc would be good.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
I don't think we're designed to be vegan. We're supposed to eat animals just nowhere near in the quantity we do.Friend Or Defoe said:
Probably a whoosh from me but i don't get the second point. People say that's bad as well.Huskaris said:Cows milk - Conspiracy to kill everyone
Ultra-processed foods - yeah no worries.
People are stupid, stop listening to them.
Pretty sure cow methane is worse for the environment than flights. It's not the cows on the fields but the battery farming which is where must of us get our beef and milk from.
I think vegans have a great argument and in the future (100 years or so, hopefully sometime after i've gone) they'll out number us so be grateful to be a live in a time where you can have an all you can eat Brazilian barbeque for £20 and vegans are the weird ones!
Tried vegan for 6 months and just seemed to be replacing unprocessed healthy foods with processed food and consuming far too many legumes and pulses etc.
Works for many but not for all and not how nature intends.
Definitely strong argument for higher plant focused diets though.2 -
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This thread is wild
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Dont disagree that ultra processed food is horrendous for us, we need better education on this and encouraging a movement towards whole foods. But, of all the things to grab the public's attention this isnt the issue to get angry about. I bet the majority of those up in arms arent gonna change the rest of their diet away from ultra-processed frozen pizzas etc.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
There is certainly room for nuance in acknowledging that despite the Internet meme of conspiracy milk the food we consume in the West is horrendous in respect of processing and additives etc and often a material contributing factor for many cancers etc.Carter said:
Haha thats made its way out to the suburbsCallumcafc said:That’s it I’m only drinking raw milk from now on.
None of this woke pasteurisation nonsense.
More than a couple of the rabble at work have stated they will only consume raw milk from here on out. I cant wait until they see the stuff, a bloody, pussy mess that there is no way on this green earth I would consume, and like you say. Who needs Louis Pasteur and his processes
That said, grass fed beef is best for everyone, bovines included. Just difficult to get hold of the stuff.
Cows are already rammed full of antibiotics which may be good for the cow but less good for us second hand consuming them
Good documentary by this bloke i keep meaning to watch. He wrote ultra processed food which is an eye opener.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0025gqs/irresistible-why-we-cant-stop-eating1 -
At least now we have a lot of experts on farming and diet to add to their already deep knowledge of vaccinology and epidemiology.16
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I am up to date with all my jabs0
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To be honest, a reasonably large amount of land that is used for grazing isn't really suitable for growing crops, or is only suitable for growing very limited types (which then has an impact on the soil) and can lead to greater reliance on chemicals if crop rotation is not feasible. Silage as a fodder crop for livestock is relatively easy to grow and can be harvested in even quite cool and damp conditions (admittedly the quality is diminished and the fields are left in worse condition due to the weight of harvesting machinery, but it can still be a valuable feed).seth plum said:
Would it be possible to sustain the growing population if everybody was vegan/vegetarian?Dansk_Red said:
Don't tell Ms Rayner as she will use it to ban all animal farming and build more tower blocks on unused farm land, to house an unsustainable growing population. 😊😊😊😊seth plum said:According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.
Like using the previously grazed farmland to grow food?
Also, unless you have very high and stringently observed environmental standards, arable cropland, like coniferous forestry, can lead to the creation of green deserts.
The use of chemicals is also, generally, an issue in arable farming.
More organic practices would be lovely, but in the absence of a dramatic change of national culture would have a direct impact on all our wallets, or would lead to imports undercutting domestic production and would lead to farm closures.3 -
Showmetheway2gohome said:
I see your still talking shit and eating shit then son.Garrymanilow said:
Why have you been eating shit?Showmetheway2gohome said:As Eddie Abbew says
wake the fuck up stop eating this shit.I skip breakfast now because that’s all shit except probably eggs and getting up at 5.45am for work I ain’t messing around doing eggs. So I miss breakfast nowadays.Burn more calories on me morning run now.
Are you a parody account?12 -
I've seen it claimed that if all crops being grown to feed animals was diverted to feed humans instead, there'd be enough for no one in the world to go hungry with access to it.seth plum said:
Would it be possible to sustain the growing population if everybody was vegan/vegetarian?Dansk_Red said:
Don't tell Ms Rayner as she will use it to ban all animal farming and build more tower blocks on unused farm land, to house an unsustainable growing population. 😊😊😊😊seth plum said:According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.
Like using the previously grazed farmland to grow food?
I'm not convinced, but it does give an idea of the enormous scale of crop growth, grain and legumes, needed to sustain the animal agriculture industry.2 -
I skip breakfast now because that’s all shit except probably eggs
and getting up at 5.45am for work I ain’t messing around doing eggs.
So I miss breakfast nowadays.Burn more calories on me morning run now.“I skip breakfast now because that’s all shit except probably eggs
and getting up at 5.45am for work I ain’t messing around doing eggs.
So I miss breakfast nowadays.Burn more calories on me morning run now.”Park Life!21 -
Is this a woosh?Carter said:
Haha thats made its way out to the suburbsCallumcafc said:That’s it I’m only drinking raw milk from now on.
None of this woke pasteurisation nonsense.
More than a couple of the rabble at work have stated they will only consume raw milk from here on out. I cant wait until they see the stuff, a bloody, pussy mess that there is no way on this green earth I would consume, and like you say. Who needs Louis Pasteur and his processes
That said, grass fed beef is best for everyone, bovines included. Just difficult to get hold of the stuff.
Cows are already rammed full of antibiotics which may be good for the cow but less good for us second hand consuming them
You do know you can prepare milk that safe to drink without pasteurisation?
I drank my beautiful unpasteurised goats milk for years with no issues. I really miss it.2 -
In the article I linked above it is claimed that it takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of edible animal flesh.swordfish said:
I've seen it claimed that if all crops being grown to feed animals was diverted to feed humans instead, there'd be enough for no one in the world to go hungry with access to it.seth plum said:
Would it be possible to sustain the growing population if everybody was vegan/vegetarian?Dansk_Red said:
Don't tell Ms Rayner as she will use it to ban all animal farming and build more tower blocks on unused farm land, to house an unsustainable growing population. 😊😊😊😊seth plum said:According to the below it takes a sixth of an acre of land to feed a vegan compared to three and a quarter acres for a meat eater.https://www.downtoearth.org/articles/2009-03/77/vegetarian-solution-part-3#:~:text=To%20feed%20a%20vegan%2C%20it,1%2F4%20acres%20of%20land.
Like using the previously grazed farmland to grow food?
I'm not convinced, but it does give an idea of the enormous scale of crop growth, grain and legumes, needed to sustain the animal agriculture industry.1
