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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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  • redbuttle said:
    Who would we get if we did sack him?
    We need stability.
    I have no idea who we bring in. I just wonder when the inflexion point arises that Jones' (stability's) defenders start to ask the question....is it worth keeping a rubbish manager just in case we hire another rubbish manager?

    We may indeed hire an equally bad manager but I'm willing to risk it because I'm absolutely certain (and have been for months) that we unquestionably have a rubbish manager now.

    Jones was hounded out of Stoke and Southampton for playing the Panglossian village idiot whilst serving up football that's almost impossibly bad to watch. With every vacancy he fills, his success at Luton becomes increasingly mystifying and more and more of a stark anomaly as opposed to something we can be confident he will replicate given time. I'd love to call him a one trick pony but he's actually just pony. Our lack of Plan B is less concerning than a nine month tenure that has yet to produce a Plan A.

    I'm not paying to watch any more of this dirge. I said after the Bristol Rovers game that Jones' 'style' of play could easily see us beat Brum 1-0 but equally make us highly likely to lose 1-0 to Exeter. I'm hardly Nostradamus but fans need to stop reading individual results and smell the coffee. What you're watching every week is unacceptable. Yes, his style of play means we will be safe from relegation. We will scrape together enough ugly points to stay up (we might even do it next game...it's not us turning a corner) but this team which he has put together, playing the football he wants them to play, are less creative than your average brick and he is entirely to blame for that. These professional players train all week to produce these performances, game after game after game, having taken all their instructions from him.

    I can handle us struggling if we're at least trying to play football but I've no idea under what false illusions fans are still turning up at matches. We're going nowhere and there's not even a pretense of entertainment or excitement. If the reason for attending is loyalty to the club then it should extend to calling for this manager to be axed. I said it once and I'll keep parroting it, stability does not bring success, it is success that brings stability. There is no sense in obstinately backing the wrong man out of a faith in stability. There is no point in fearing change will bring about failure, when you've been watching nine months of seriously flawed failure under NJ.
    Nail on head.  I didn’t want t him in the first place. He’s a clown.  
  • edited November 24
    Very worried about this season

    At the moment the excuse is ‘we have injuries’ & will be much better when they come back.

    BUT by the time key injured players come back it will be Jan & I expect Leaburn & Small to leave in the up coming window.

    Massive couple of weeks coming up. We need to beat Walsall to keep our season alive & we need to get results against Burton & Crawley to prevent relegation fears becoming a reality. 

    Burton have only won once out of 15 games all season. We simply MUST go there & win.
  • If we go back to the start of the season, we were solid, but drab and lacked one vital element, a creative spark.
    Since then, Leaburn has returned, which should have actually improved the forward line.
    Granted, we miss Jones badly, but a centre half being out temporarily, shouldn't derail a whole season.

    Everything has fallen apart because we have never found that missing creative spark, it simply doesn't exist at the club at this time, due to terrible recruitment.
    You cannot win games if you cannot score a goal in the first half of a game, and are always having to come from behind, or waiting to bring on subs in the 65th minute of games.

    Attack is the best form of defence.

    But we simply cannot retain the ball in the final third. There is a disconnect between the midfield and forward line. It needed to be identified and fixed early on before the rot set in, before players started losing confidence and stop giving 100%.
    That didn't happen and we are now in a downward spiral with Jones clutching at straws.


    Aside from 2-3 games we've been poor all season. Even when we were sneaking 1-0 wins early on in the season, there was always the nagging doubt 'this is ok whilst we're winning but what happens when the luck runs out or we concede goals'. And now that's happened.

    Basically if we concede a goal then we're screwed because not once all season in the league have we won a game when we've conceded.
    Agreed, but what I'm saying is that we had the basis of a side in those first few games. 
    Defensively solid, pressed, worked extremely hard and seemed to be fitter than the opposition.
    But we all knew that we couldn't keep it up, that we had to start creating more chances and scoring more than 1 goal in a game.
    That lack of creativity has never been addressed, or even acknowledged as being a problem by Jones.

    That would be my argument for ditching Jones. How can he expect us to be successful without some creativity, pace or skill in the midfield.?

    Anderson and Taylor are the only ones who come close to fulfilling that requirement.

    But he won't play Taylor and Anderson isn't ready yet.
  • edited November 24
    Any new manager would do well to make us worse than we currently are , the players aren’t great but they’re better than the constant dross we’re served up .
    we are underperforming 
    If any new manager simply played a formation with width (I.e. wingers) & put players on their right side (small on the right wing was madness) we would create a lot more.

    Despite having 10 men, we looked much better in the second half when Small went out to the left (he was unlikely not to get an assist when Leaburn headed just wide from his cross).
  • PWR, those who advocate sacking NJ, who do you suggest comes in? There is no outstanding candidate that I can see that's realistic. We keep changing managers on a far to regular basis, and it hasn't worked! We've been crap for years, we've tried up and coming managers, in Garner, Jackson, and Holden. We've tried old stagers in Slade and Appleton. We keep sacking them and their replacements, after a new manager bounce, then flop and off we go again.
    When NJ was appointed a large majority of fans were happy, me included, he dragged us out of the mire last season and we started this season  quite well, albeit the football was poor, but we ground out positive results.
    Now we're playing poor and losing, so it seems our natural reaction is to shuffle the deckchairs again. What's to say another person at the helm will have any different outcome, only Bowyer, recently has had any success and that didn't last!
    We, apparently, have filthy rich owners, so why was recruitment so poor in the summer. We know NJ wanted at least 2 quality keepers, he didnt get them, what else did he want that he didn't get. No one, me included, knows the truth about May and Dobbo and why they left, CBT had gone before NJ arrived.
    My thoughts are to get rid of Scott, CM and Rodwell, get a proper DoF in and ask the owners to back NJ and the new DoF
    to get quality players in during January. 
    Transfer or loan out, Docherty, Gillesphey, Anderson and Kanu, send A.Campbell, Potts back to whence they came. 
    Bring in a leftsided CB to play alongside Jones and Ramsay, get 2 playmakers in to play in midfield, leave Hylton as a coach only, get in a proven young striker, and use the PL for quality loans. 
    Give NJ the full season and have faith in him to deliver.
    Sorry for the long post, but we can't keep changing managers it's not worked, and as the old saying goes, 'If u keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get the same results you've always got'  (or words to that effect).
    What you appear to be advocating is a rip it up and start again approach.
    But Jones assembled the squad that he wanted, and he's on record for thanking the board for fully backing him in bringing in the players that he wanted.
    I too do not want the managerial merry go round to continue.
    If Jones were to come out and say "on reflection, I got the recruitment wrong, but bear with me and we'll try to address that in the January window", then I'd be more than happy to stick with the guy and give him more time.
    But he refuses to acknowledge that there's a problem and does nothing at all to try to rectify the problem.

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  • You're on the hooch a bit early Randy?
  • "We need to keep trying with this manager and style of play until next November because it's time to stop sacking managers"
  • NJ may not be picking us up any points at the moment but at least we can take some positives in the way he has us playing. We just aren't getting the rub of the green at the minute and I feel we are just a game or 2 away from hylton/gass tearing this league apart once our creative midfield click.
    People have been saying that for weeks now 
  • iaitch said:
    You're on the hooch a bit early Randy?
    Believe my friend. We are getting closer every game to getting hms piss the league back on track 👍
  • Leuth said:
    "We need to keep trying with this manager and style of play until next November because it's time to stop sacking managers"
    It’s time to start winning or we will be in League2 next November.
  • Nathan Jones is doing terrible.
    But I don’t want him sacked and we start yet another cycle.  
    For once, we go against our feelings and the modern football instant success lust and give someone some time.  
    It’ll be shit now, it might even get worse, but time, let’s give that a go now.
    I don’t want the cycle , but you’re literally saying to keep someone who is clearly inept for the sake of not changing which

    there is nothing absolutely zero to give us hope or indication that he can or will improve going forward 
    I’m saying he’s inept right now, but it’s still only been what 9 months?  What’s to say there isn’t going to be an improvement if we actually back someone through a bad patch for once?  

    I’d asses it end of next season.  I know it seems bonkers right now, but the managerial merry go round has to be stopped.  
    Leave it until next season and in league two we will dream of being in league one again. 
    We do the league 2 flap every season.  It won’t happen, relax.  
    A poster on a Wrexham thread said “Wrexham will not finish above us, FACT”

    Thats going well 
  • Any new manager would do well to make us worse than we currently are , the players aren’t great but they’re better than the constant dross we’re served up .
    we are underperforming 
    We say this season after season. 
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  • Nathan Jones is doing terrible.
    But I don’t want him sacked and we start yet another cycle.  
    For once, we go against our feelings and the modern football instant success lust and give someone some time.  
    It’ll be shit now, it might even get worse, but time, let’s give that a go now.
    I don’t want the cycle , but you’re literally saying to keep someone who is clearly inept for the sake of not changing which

    there is nothing absolutely zero to give us hope or indication that he can or will improve going forward 
    I’m saying he’s inept right now, but it’s still only been what 9 months?  What’s to say there isn’t going to be an improvement if we actually back someone through a bad patch for once?  

    I’d asses it end of next season.  I know it seems bonkers right now, but the managerial merry go round has to be stopped.  
    Leave it until next season and in league two we will dream of being in league one again. 
    We do the league 2 flap every season.  It won’t happen, relax.  
    A poster on a Wrexham thread said “Wrexham will not finish above us, FACT”

    Thats going well 
    You could get promoted and finish below Wrexham, they’re flying.  
  • edited November 24
    If we were going to 'have faith' with a manager, it should've been Jackson. If any of our ex-managers still have credit in the bank, they're Powell and Bowyer. It's not a coincidence they are also the ex-players (I'm conveniently forgetting Pardew for the purposes of this point). We all believe that Charlton is more than just a football club, that we have an identity, a certain style... logically it translates that someone has to 'get' the club, because there is something to 'get'. Go against this, recruit players that don't measure up to it, and you'll fail. You'll lose matches, lose the fans, lose your job. Of course it's sentimentalist to want Powell back, or even Jackson, but we've tried everything else, and every year it gets harder to see any sort of positive progress.

    4 points from the next 2 games is the absolute bare minimum, and avoid embarrassment at Walsall, or Jones out.
  • By the way, there is a nuance to all this.  

    Just because I’m saying we should stop sacking managers doesn’t mean I think many of you are completely wrong.  There’s more than enough grounds to sack Jones, he’s spent money by the looks of things, Ahadme looks a sacking offence by itself.  

    I just think we’ve gotta give stability a turn, as grim as that sounds short term.  I’ll hold my hands up if we end up finishing 17th again, or worse!  
  • edited November 24
    Oh saviour is a psychopath who has taken out team even further back than when he signed.... but I'd rather the money he'd be given to leave a 4 year deal, be spent in January on some players. 
  • Was pretty impressed when we brought him in and was the best coach we'd appointed in ages but what a massive disappointment he's turning into. We've not improved at all since he came in.

    Questionable transfers
    Hopeful negative tactics

    He gets until the end of the season at least as we can't keep on the merry go round, and hope that things start to turn around, he'd have had a season and half by then but honestly, don't see much changing on the pitch he's too stubborn. We'll settle nicely in midtable, shake hands and part ways.

  • I really thought he’d work out and would be the one to get us going again. I was wrong. He’s on borrowed time now. 
  • You could answer yes to all of those. Like you, I’m not a fan of sacking managers every five minutes but there comes a point where you have to accept it’s not working.
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