England manager should be English in my opinion. We've done foreign twice and neither of them won anything, Tuchel will be no different.
Didn’t have a problem with Sven but I don’t agree with a German manager considering the rivalry and the two wars.
thats ridiculous! talk about grudge bearing. I take it you don't drive a German, Italian or Japanese car then. How can employing a manager born 28 years after the second world war ended possibly be a issue?
A french manager (except Yann Kermorgant) on the other hand.......
England manager should be English in my opinion. We've done foreign twice and neither of them won anything, Tuchel will be no different.
Agreed, what other allegedly footballing super power has handed over the leadership of their national team to a non national. Personally for the top 20 national teams i think they should only be allowed to have own national managers, in the same way they are only have players that can claim nationality, although as ROI have shown that can be tenuous.
As much as i liked Sven and we had Cappello, Southgate achieved more than either of them.
Literally (almost) in the case of Capello, what have the Romans ever done for us!!
I said this earlier at the dinner table, but I said the top 30 national teams. I can understand countries like Jamaica appointing an experienced guy like they have (could have chosen better though) so they can hopefully develop using that guys expertise and knowledge but teams like England should have a born and bred national at the helm.
And you are right in that Southgate achieved more than Sven and Capello did with none of the experience they came with.
As a country we are slowing losing our identity so it shouldn’t be a surprise that this has happened but it’s a shame it has, in my opinion.
It's a consequence of so many (often foreign owned) Premiership teams now not taking a chance on English (or British managers), so there isn't a talent pool of experienced home grown Coaches any more. Just 3 English managers currently (6 British managers in total, with 14 foreign managers), gives a pretty limited choice.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful. This game is so very f**ked up!
Even the Germans are laughing at as . Didn’t have a clue at Chelsea and doesn’t understand English football at all.
He won them the Champions league, beating Real Madrid in the semi and Pep's Man City in the final. In 7 knock out matches that season they conceded just 2 goals.
To be honest i think unless we'd got Pep there would've been people moaning regardless.
I think the majority of people would certainly prefer that we had a bunch of world class English managers to choose from but the simple fact is we don't.
Even if we'd got Eddie Howe who is probably the best current English manager, people would've moaned and said he's not elite and what's he won.
Got absolutely no problems with Tuchel as a choice, was slim pickings once Klopp went to Red Bull , Poch to the US and Pep is still deciding what he wants to do. Don't think the FA would have wanted to pay the kind of compensation that Newcastle would have wanted for Howe but I do think he'll manage England at some point.
Even the Germans are laughing at as . Didn’t have a clue at Chelsea and doesn’t understand English football at all.
He won them the Champions league, beating Real Madrid in the semi and Pep's Man City in the final. In 7 knock out matches that season they conceded just 2 goals.
Seems like he must've had some clue.
With foreign players mostly.
Those games you mentioned had only 3 English players playing for Chelsea.
I don't get the "not a German manager" narrative. I would've preferred Pep, but I cant see him leaving City at the moment. TT is a good manager and we need the best for the job. Carsley was never going to be that person and currently I can't think of a world class English manager. I don't give a stuff about the nationality of the manager, we need a winner, I think TT might be that man!
This should be a wake up call for the FA to lower its coaching badge prices. Countries like Spain charge a lot less and have multiple times the amount of qualified coaches we do, Germany the same.
Even the Germans are laughing at as . Didn’t have a clue at Chelsea and doesn’t understand English football at all.
He won them the Champions league, beating Real Madrid in the semi and Pep's Man City in the final. In 7 knock out matches that season they conceded just 2 goals.
Seems like he must've had some clue.
With foreign players mostly.
Those games you mentioned had only 3 English players playing for Chelsea.
What on earth does that have to do with your point that he "didn’t have a clue at Chelsea"?
I'm sure the FA's wish list comprised those they felt most likely to lead us to success, but I've no idea how far down TT was on it.
I think to have restricted their choice by nationality would have potentially make that less likely, and as employing non English non playing staff is permitted, they're gambling on it bringing that long awaited tournament win we desperately crave. Other top nations, who wouldn't contemplate it today, might feel differently if they'd been starved of success for nearly sixty years!
So I understand the thinking and prioritising, but I don't have high expectations of anyone to deliver that success. I'm pessimistic due to the dissapointments of the past and feeling they'll always be a better team, or one with the luck on their side on the day.
I don't get the "not a German manager" narrative. I would've preferred Pep, but I cant see him leaving City at the moment. TT is a good manager and we need the best for the job. Carsley was never going to be that person and currently I can't think of a world class English manager. I don't give a stuff about the nationality of the manager, we need a winner, I think TT might be that man!
I understand where you are coming from but I believe that a National team should be national from manager and through the team. Coupled with the belief that great club managers do not necessarily make great international managers as they require a different skill set away from day to day contact, I'm not particularly whelmed by TTs appointment. That said I'll be as happy as any on this board if we actually win something.
Well, we used to all moan that the FA was stuffy and out of touch and too scared to appoint anybody controversial or with a personality. (E.g. Clough, when the whole country wanted him). Tuchel seems a bit hyper and a bit touchy, but ranks very high in the talent pool. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with this group. Might find out that they really are a new "golden generation". Or not.
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful. This game is so very f**ked up!
Agree 100%.
No way Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina etc would have a non national leading their team.
Can understand it for developing football nations but it's poor.
Even if he wins world cup it's not an English win.. it's a team of English players coordinated and masterminded by a German manager.
Takes the shine off it hugely and would undermine it.
National managers should be of the nation they manage like the players otherwise it makes international football meaningless.
Selling out in pursuit of success is soulless but in step with modern football I suppose.
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful. This game is so very f**ked up!
Agree 100%.
No way Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina etc would have a non national leading their team.
Can understand it for developing football nations but it's poor.
Even if he wins world cup it's not an English win.. it's a team of English players coordinated and masterminded by a German manager.
Takes the shine off it hugely and would undermine it.
National managers should be of the nation they manage like the players otherwise it makes international football meaningless.
Selling out in pursuit of success is soulless but in step with modern football I suppose.
If we win the world cup, i seriously doubt many people would sit there disappointed that it means nothing because the manager isn't English.
England manager should be English in my opinion. We've done foreign twice and neither of them won anything, Tuchel will be no different.
We have not won much with English managers either.
The only trophy we have won was with an English manager
60 years ago, doesn’t have much relevance to modern football
I am not sure relevance has anything to do with it. Plain and simple facts show in 58 years of international football England have won one trophy and the manager was English
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful. This game is so very f**ked up!
Agree 100%.
No way Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina etc would have a non national leading their team.
Can understand it for developing football nations but it's poor.
Even if he wins world cup it's not an English win.. it's a team of English players coordinated and masterminded by a German manager.
Takes the shine off it hugely and would undermine it.
National managers should be of the nation they manage like the players otherwise it makes international football meaningless.
Selling out in pursuit of success is soulless but in step with modern football I suppose.
For what it's worth this isn't a modern phenomenon, pre the 80's Spain had a few managers of different nationalities, Argentina had one or two too. Not saying it's common but it's not a modern football thing
Charlton have managers and players who aren't Charlton fans; doesn't stop me supporting them or celebrating the rare successes we have.
The national job is an almost impossible task.
Not only must the manager win every game and every tournament it must be done playing the most attacking and exciting football while never conceding any goals and playing every "world class" player available even if that unbalances the team.
Southgate undoubtedly took the England team forward, achieving more than any boss since Ramsay, but that was never good enough for many.
We talk about every group of players being a golden generation until they don't win then we decide the next lot are the golden generation and expect miracles.
I'm not bothered about TT or his nationality but when people cite Spain or Germany as having top coaches that win international trophies they nearly always promote in-,house coaches from their U21 and national teams, as we did with Southgate.
The failure of the FA was to not have his successor ready and in place within the system.
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful. This game is so very f**ked up!
Agree 100%.
No way Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina etc would have a non national leading their team.
Can understand it for developing football nations but it's poor.
Even if he wins world cup it's not an English win.. it's a team of English players coordinated and masterminded by a German manager.
Takes the shine off it hugely and would undermine it.
National managers should be of the nation they manage like the players otherwise it makes international football meaningless.
Selling out in pursuit of success is soulless but in step with modern football I suppose.
For what it's worth this isn't a modern phenomenon, pre the 80's Spain had a few managers of different nationalities, Argentina had one or two too. Not saying it's common but it's not a modern football thing
Its just not very successful either... Especially for European sides
Its worked for teams winning AFCON and the Copa America, but no side has won the World Cup for example with a foreign Manager
Comments
A french manager (except Yann Kermorgant) on the other hand.......
Personally I thought it was brilliant and she was brilliant.
God help us - a manager with some fire and personality! Looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Hopefully the team will be worth watching, after all those dull as ditchwater Southgate performances.
And you are right in that Southgate achieved more than Sven and Capello did with none of the experience they came with.
As a country we are slowing losing our identity so it shouldn’t be a surprise that this has happened but it’s a shame it has, in my opinion.
In 2003 when Curbs was in charge there were 11 English managers + 6 other UK managers and just 3 foreign managers.
Quite how the biggest footballing nation in the world ,of which so much money and talent flows cannot produce a coach of the required quality to manage it's national side is nothing short of disgraceful.
This game is so very f**ked up!
Seems like he must've had some clue.
I think the majority of people would certainly prefer that we had a bunch of world class English managers to choose from but the simple fact is we don't.
Even if we'd got Eddie Howe who is probably the best current English manager, people would've moaned and said he's not elite and what's he won.
my guess is Pep made it clear he wasn’t interested. Klopp is now at Red bull and nobody else is available without large compensation.
I'd rather we didn't have a German as manager however that will be forgotten if he picks the right teams to win us something
Those games you mentioned had only 3 English players playing for Chelsea.
I don't give a stuff about the nationality of the manager, we need a winner, I think TT might be that man!
Unfortunately it won’t.
I think to have restricted their choice by nationality would have potentially make that less likely, and as employing non English non playing staff is permitted, they're gambling on it bringing that long awaited tournament win we desperately crave. Other top nations, who wouldn't contemplate it today, might feel differently if they'd been starved of success for nearly sixty years!
So I understand the thinking and prioritising, but I don't have high expectations of anyone to deliver that success. I'm pessimistic due to the dissapointments of the past and feeling they'll always be a better team, or one with the luck on their side on the day.
better players? Hungrier to win ? Something else?
(E.g. Clough, when the whole country wanted him).
Tuchel seems a bit hyper and a bit touchy, but ranks very high in the talent pool.
I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with this group.
Might find out that they really are a new "golden generation". Or not.
No way Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina etc would have a non national leading their team.
Can understand it for developing football nations but it's poor.
Even if he wins world cup it's not an English win.. it's a team of English players coordinated and masterminded by a German manager.
Takes the shine off it hugely and would undermine it.
National managers should be of the nation they manage like the players otherwise it makes international football meaningless.
Selling out in pursuit of success is soulless but in step with modern football I suppose.
The national job is an almost impossible task.
Not only must the manager win every game and every tournament it must be done playing the most attacking and exciting football while never conceding any goals and playing every "world class" player available even if that unbalances the team.
Southgate undoubtedly took the England team forward, achieving more than any boss since Ramsay, but that was never good enough for many.
We talk about every group of players being a golden generation until they don't win then we decide the next lot are the golden generation and expect miracles.
I'm not bothered about TT or his nationality but when people cite Spain or Germany as having top coaches that win international trophies they nearly always promote in-,house coaches from their U21 and national teams, as we did with Southgate.
The failure of the FA was to not have his successor ready and in place within the system.
Its worked for teams winning AFCON and the Copa America, but no side has won the World Cup for example with a foreign Manager