I predict if May goes it will go down in Charlton history as infamous as when Kermogant was sold, at a similar age. Can anybody tell me when deliberately selling a proven goal scorer has paid off for us? I have been around a long time and cannot think of an example.And I do not mean paid off because we needed the money, re Robert Lee, which apparently we do not at present unless we have been fed the usual pack of lies.
Conversely, can you give an example where keeping one has “worked”?
Everyone would’ve thought you barking mad if you’d said selling Mendonca in 1998 and Hunt in 2000 were the optimal decision. No one would’ve supported selling BWP in 2012 or Lyle Taylor in 2019 either but both ended up contributing less than was expected the following season. Fifth example, keeping Darren Bent after his big season in 2005-06 didn’t save us the following season either.
And to a much lesser extent Stockley. In that first season he kept scoring freakishly good headers, and you just knew there was no chance of him repeating that the following season.
What May might achieve next season, if he stays, is less clear. I’d expect him to have a reduced scoring rate, but not to fall off a cliff like some.
Btw after all the transfer activity we are now 5/1 to be promoted. 16/1 for the title.
Unchanged. Who would we have to sign to lower those odds I wonder. Lionel Messi?
Outright betting markets are not the same as ‘next manager’ markets. Our odds to win the league or get promoted are unlikely to shorten unless we win our first few fixtures of the season.
Bookies probably have us about right at 9th favourites (I think that’s generous personally in light of losing CBT, Dobson & most likely May by the time the season starts). They’re definitely not going to shorten our odds because we’ve signed a reserve keeper from Cambridge on a freebie.
Btw after all the transfer activity we are now 5/1 to be promoted. 16/1 for the title.
Unchanged. Who would we have to sign to lower those odds I wonder. Lionel Messi?
Outright betting markets are not the same as ‘next manager’ markets. Our odds to win the league or get promoted are unlikely to shorten unless we win our first few fixtures of the season.
Bookies probably have us about right at 9th favourites (I think that’s generous personally in light of losing CBT, Dobson & most likely May by the time the season starts). They’re definitely not going to shorten our odds because we’ve signed a reserve keeper from Cambridge on a freebie.
It just depends on whether enough bets are placed doesn’t I? I can’t see punters piling in any time soon. ☹️
Doesn't pre-season start next Thursday? I thought we would have done more business by now if I'm being honest. Hopefully a busy week ahead.
Technically it’s 4 players if Mitchell is done which is a lot more than usual before pre season, I think Jones has put un needed pressure on himself by saying it’ll be done when in hindsight it’s so rare to have your squad sorted by then but hopefully 2/3 next week and that’ll take us up to 6/7 which isn’t to bad.
Still not enough & the 4 or 5 new players ncludes 2 GK's. We are still a very long way off assembling a squad that could get top 6, let alone automatic promotion. I'm not sure if a couple of defenders, 2 GK's & a midfielder on the wrong side of 30 could be described as squad rebuilding.
Ho hum.
I get where your coming from Golfie, we’re miles off at the moment, but let’s hope we are in a much better place with signings in a months time.
Football forums, and patience don’t seem to go hand in hand.
The difference this year is Jones set the expectation that the squad would largely be in place in time for preseason.
With that being less than a week away it’s not looking like it’ll happen. We need around 8-10 signings and a handful of players to move on.
Did he say he will have the squad in place or he would like to have the majority of the squad in place?
the problem is that the majority want it to be the first statement and are hanging on it, winding themselves up and others up because they can’t see it happening.
if and I know it’s an if and we have 2-3 in next week and another 2-3 in during the rest of the window, jones has got his wish. And that is a lot of our business (not all) done in time for pre season training.
Here’s what he said after we signed Mannion.
“We’d like to get the squad completed by our return date of June 27th,” he said. “We’ve worked tirelessly for the last three to four weeks in terms of arranging meetings with players. We’re trying to be bold in our recruitment.
“I’m sure that by the time that we do get to the first day of pre-season, we’ll have the majority, if not all, of our squad in place. That’s so important because pre-season is a real big time, an important time to gel the squad and lay down certain things.
I must have missed Jones stating how many players he is going to sign and in which positions. I am guessing another GK, a striker and an attacking midfielder, but would appreciate the facts. Cheers.
True, he's never stated how many players he wants in & maybe he's happy with just the ones we've signed plus Mitchell, a GK and A.N.Other.
But if so its not enough & we will struggle massively. But all we can do is wait & see.
It is possible he doesn't want many more signings. We have:
I've not included the younger kids or people like Fraser who will likely go.
So that's already a 23 man squad when Mitchell signs. Assumption would be that we will definitely add a striker and then i guess we probably need a wide attacker/winger and an attacking midfielder.
Beyond that i can't see us signing anyone else unless a player leaves (like May). Highly unlikely we're going to be making another 5/6/7 signings, especially when Jones has previously said he wanted a smaller, more streamlined squad.
That squad is far too similar to the one which ended the season
Jesus. Pre season hasn’t started, fixtures not announced, euro group stages not complete, squad numbers not announced. Players contracts still have a few days to run.
i suggest that comments like this are put on hold for a month, then we can assess and comment on the depth and quality of the squad.
Said every year about this time when old sages's like myself can see the writing on the wall.
IF we sold Alfie for £1.5M & IF that money was spent on a decent replacement (ie, a proven goalscorer at this level who will get you 15-20 goals a season) then I would begrudgingly concede it's a good deal.
But it wont. We'll buy 1 or 2 of the goalscorers previously mentioned who'll end up with 8 or 10 goals.....with everyone saying it's up to the rest of the team to make up the shortfall.
Which is the problem as we've not had other players chipping in with 6 or 7 goals......apart from JRS & CBT who left and have not been replaced.
So again, one of the reasons why we need another 6 or 7 players is that our current squad DOESN'T SCORE GOALS.
And relax.
People won’t like it, but Golfie is not wrong. We haven’t ever replaced any of the quality we have either lost or sold, and now the only real proven quality we’ve got left who has played for us before looks like he’s being sold.
We need around 7 very, very good players anyway, that’s bloody hard enough as it is. 8 if May leaves is even harder.
What I simply don’t understand is lots of people are saying we’ll just go and sign May’s replacement and a younger version or we’ll sign two strikers for the cost of what we’d get for May or whatever else. But if it was that simple, why would Huddersfield be after the top goal scorer in the league when they could sign other, younger, less expensive strikers? They want May because they know he’ll score 20+ goals next season, that’s why.
Of course, there is a long way to go yet and the season doesn’t start for another 7 weeks. However, don’t put the pressure on to say we’re trying to have the squad pretty much complete by the start of pre-season, which is just 5 days away, and we need more than 5 top quality signings.
Also tired of seeing Coventry being better than Dobson when we simply haven’t seen it at all. He’s only 2 years younger than Dobson and has not even played 100 games yet whereas Dobson has played over 300. George seemingly just another player who really needs to be replaced.
This isn’t being doom and gloom, it’s just we are nowhere near strong enough for what we need to achieve and there is so much more to do, on and off the pitch, that letting the only one in the team who scores goals leave is quite frankly mental right now.
Totally agree Sage, what bewilders me is you can agree with Golfie & get 66 likes while Golfie gets slagged off for his views. Personally I don't think we're going to get this support from our billionaires that we've been promised. So far we have Cambridges second choice keeper that Jones describes as experienced although he's played less then 30 EFL games. A decent Scottish player in their 2nd Division at around 100k & an experienced midfielder who people are getting excited about because he came from Luton but how many games did he start last year ? 2 I believe, but he will still probably be the heartbeat of our midfield but we'll have to see. Plenty of time left to sign players of course but I feel Groundhog day is just around the corner.
Problem is the record never changes. He was moaning exactly the same the season we signed Lyle Taylor and got promoted. Everyone wants signings done early but you just never know how a season is going to go until it actually starts and the window is closed and we actually get to see the players.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Do you want someone who moves as little as Fraser rubbing off on our U21 players?
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Do you want someone who moves as little as Fraser rubbing off on our U21 players?
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Or just don’t register them as part of the squad.
Put them on gardening leave to sit at home and get fat
Fraser was always going to be the most difficult player to move on. Mind you, given his publicly expressed desire to leave the club and move up to Scotland, there should be scope for some compromise on his part, although he may find it difficult to get anyone to commit to a 2-year deal.
I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing gets done until the end of the window.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
One day there will be a transfer rumour on here. Hopefully.
Surely this is the week when things get going.
We needed 8 first team players at the start of the summer (9 if May leaves).
So far we have only signed 1 (Luke Berry) plus two back up players (Mannion & Edwards who have been brought in to compete with our future 1st team keeper & Small).
Btw after all the transfer activity we are now 5/1 to be promoted. 16/1 for the title.
Unchanged. Who would we have to sign to lower those odds I wonder. Lionel Messi?
Very much doubt any of those signings are exciting enough for punters to lump on huge bets and move the odds... not when you top scorer is about to leave the building.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
might also been seen by younger players as how they will be treated if their face no longer fits or have a drop in form.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
might also been seen by younger players as how they will be treated if their face no longer fits or have a drop in form.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
Responding to your first points I think we may already see that depending on how the Alfie situation is/has been handled as well. NJ has very much of a "my way or the highway" kind of attitude from what I can tell.
One day there will be a transfer rumour on here. Hopefully.
Surely this is the week when things get going.
We needed 8 first team players at the start of the summer (9 if May leaves).
So far we have only signed 1 (Luke Berry) plus two back up players (Mannion & Edwards who have been brought in to compete with our future 1st team keeper & Small).
A slow start would be an understatement.
I know Charlton fans are negative at the best of times but I don’t think Iv ever seen it this bad before pre season has started. Jones has really F*****d up by saying he’ll have his squad sorted because to get 3/4 bodies in before pre season wouldn’t normally be seen as a bad thing . We’ve still got over 2 months of the window left.
I totally get the reasons why, but we really need to start calling some of these players bluff a bit when they are sitting on contracts and not willing to take less to the point where we have to pay them off to be rid of them - your Frasers and Kirks of this world- if they have 2 years left on a contract, but are not good enough - instead of sending them out on season long loans (where we pay most of their wages anyway) we should just go back to them and be like - well if you are not willing to move on unless your overblown wage demands that you don't deserve are met then off to the reserves you go for 2 years - see how you feel about that when it comes to finding a club when you haven't played a competitive game for 2 years.
Nice in theory but you then have a disgruntled player hanging around the training ground who is still being paid 100% of their wages and who is also taking up a squad space when we're only allowed a certain number of over 21 year old players.
Yeah as I say, I get the reasons why. Its why I'm saying it's calling their bluff because if you are giving the player 2 options - find another club and get what wages the market dictates you are worth, or 2 years at an overblown wage but absolutely no competitive football for those two years, and you can mope around the training ground all you like but you will just be held up as an example to the younger players not to waste their potential - "see how you could end up without application or ambition?" I get that it's a risk and at the end of the day, I don't run a football club, have no experience of it and would probably run the club into the ground with my attitude and am probably in cloud cuckoo land - but its what I would be pushing to do.
might also been seen by younger players as how they will be treated if their face no longer fits or have a drop in form.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
Responding to your first points I think we may already see that depending on how the Alfie situation is/has been handled as well. NJ has very much of a "my way or the highway" kind of attitude from what I can tell.
I agree. I think it also part of how NJ works. He wants to set out that this is the way it works under him and players have to buy into that.
Those that won't and who don't fit his style of play will be gone while those that do, like Berry, will be brought in to be Jones' leaders on the pitch and in the dressing room.
It's possibly why he prefers younger players like Anderson and Kanu who work hard and can be fashioned into his type of player. They are also good players in their own right.
High risk strategy that didn't work at Stoke or Southampton but did at Luton, who were probably closer to where Charlton are now.
I would have thought Alfie's playing style, hard running, closing done, being general nuisance to the opposition plus his goal record would fit in with Jones desired way of playing but it seems not.
Oh dear. Last thing we need is Scott Fraser moping about the place.
I have always thought that Scott Fraser is a very talented footballer.
With the right players around him, he could easily hold his own and do a good job.
However it all depends whether Scott Fraser decides to turn up and try!
There is 0% chance of Scott Fraser turning into a hard-pressing energetic midfielder putting defenders under pressure and winning the ball high up the pitch. I cannot think of a player less suited to Jones' way of playing
Comments
Who would we have to sign to lower those odds I wonder. Lionel Messi?
Bookies probably have us about right at 9th favourites (I think that’s generous personally in light of losing CBT, Dobson & most likely May by the time the season starts). They’re definitely not going to shorten our odds because we’ve signed a reserve keeper from Cambridge on a freebie.
Problem is the record never changes. He was moaning exactly the same the season we signed Lyle Taylor and got promoted. Everyone wants signings done early but you just never know how a season is going to go until it actually starts and the window is closed and we actually get to see the players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing gets done until the end of the window.
We needed 8 first team players at the start of the summer (9 if May leaves).
So far we have only signed 1 (Luke Berry) plus two back up players (Mannion & Edwards who have been brought in to compete with our future 1st team keeper & Small).
A slow start would be an understatement.
like any work place if one of your colleagues is being treated in a different way from others, some will see it as fair as he's lazy or no good at his job while others will be upset that their mate is been mistreated by the boss.
Bottom line is, no one forced the club to sign Fraser or Kirk, we did it quite willingly and gave them long contracts to protect that investment and to make the deals more attractive. So Fraser and the others are entitled to stick with the contract they were given.
Personally, I think a deal will be done this summer. Kirk and McGrandles have been moved on for which Andy Scott deserves a little, very little, credit.
Those that won't and who don't fit his style of play will be gone while those that do, like Berry, will be brought in to be Jones' leaders on the pitch and in the dressing room.
It's possibly why he prefers younger players like Anderson and Kanu who work hard and can be fashioned into his type of player. They are also good players in their own right.
High risk strategy that didn't work at Stoke or Southampton but did at Luton, who were probably closer to where Charlton are now.
I would have thought Alfie's playing style, hard running, closing done, being general nuisance to the opposition plus his goal record would fit in with Jones desired way of playing but it seems not.