I’m going to come out in support of @DubaiCAFC post here. Perhaps “suck it up” was the wrong and perhaps an inflammatory phrase to use but realistically we are between a rock and a hard place as supporters. We do have new owners and despite people’s impatience they have a mountain to climb in turning around years of dreadful ownership and hollowing out of the club. Anyone that thinks this is a two minute surgical procedure hasn’t been paying attention. It would appear that the owners and SMT are at least on the same page and realise that recruitment needs to be a lot better and will cost money. As supporters and this where I agree with Dubai is what do we do ? Start protesting and call for owners or manager to depart or do we see where this goes over the next couple of seasons. I think given the appalling state of the club they have to be given time. If it’s obvious that both recruitment and off the field matters are not improving then there’s time enough for getting the pigs back out but I’m assuming the money men will have something to say as well. I’m not happy with how things are but I’m a realist. I don’t want Methven, Scott, Rodwell, or Appleton gone. I want to see them do better. If that doesn’t happen then all bets are off.
Apart from the rantings on social media I get the sense that there is no stomach for protest anymore. It seems to me that rather than a choice between being patient or "getting the pigs back out" I suspect the new reality is, show us some evidence or realistic hope of success or you'll soon be owning/managing the equivalent of the Marie Celeste
I would like to have known, in the opinion of the board, which of the 8-8-8 categories Dobson and CBT fit into. Do they consider them 'elite' or 'consistent'?
There’s a fairly simple way to test the 8-8-8 theory in the real world. Look at the Ipswich squad that got promoted, and Bolton’s this season. Mind you, the test would be much more valid if done with the active participation of a knowledgeable Ipswich and Bolton fan.
Surely the 888 shouldn't be seen as too literal in any event?
Isn't it just stating the obvious (but trying to make it look like magical formula by adding numbers) that ideally you want a blend of those players you don't want to lose / will stay if we get promoted, seasoned pros who 'do a job' but are 'in's and out's' each year plus the upcoming youth?
There’s a fairly simple way to test the 8-8-8 theory in the real world. Look at the Ipswich squad that got promoted, and Bolton’s this season. Mind you, the test would be much more valid if done with the active participation of a knowledgeable Ipswich and Bolton fan.
The youngest player in Bolton's squad is 21 and he's out on loan. There's only two players from the academy (arguably, although they were signed elsewhere at a young age), Thomason and Morley, who have 4 appearances each. I think it's fair to say that they have not followed this model.
If you took away 8 of their decent players and replaced them with 8 people from their academy, I doubt they would still be 2nd.
It's disturbing that they want to keep Appleton and that is justified by their perception that fans thought they got rid of Holden too quickly. I'd have given Holden more time myself as I believe he would have done better with the players that weren't available to him at the time. However, that's neither here nor there as justifying Appleton's existence in this way is a nonsense. He's not up to it and the longer he stays the worse it's going to get. I know he's missing some players but so was the Oxford manager the other day but he did something about it and in one training session he amended the system and left S.E.7 with 3 points in his back pocket! Sometimes you just have to accept that you made a really bad appointment and do something about it. Nero, fiddles and Rome spring to mind. Investing in players is more than just the transfer fee itself. This is being shown in the JCH transfer as clearly we haven't matched his expectations despite having agreed the fee. It's further underlined with Dobbo and CBT as we seemingly aren't offering them acceptable deals either. They probably aren't demanding the earth either. I recall that Yann only wanted a year or two more which should have been a no brainer and we all know how costly that proved to be. This is worrying as it suggests the owners simply don't have the money or are not prepared to invest what they do have.
I would like to have known, in the opinion of the board, which of the 8-8-8 categories Dobson and CBT fit into. Do they consider them 'elite' or 'consistent'?
We currently only have 2 very good (elite) players who are fit, these two. If they go we will be in deep trouble, especially if Alfie's minor injury is a 'Charlton' one...
Once you recognise the madness of signing a jumble of players over different windows and different managers for different systems then it’s logical to stick with a manager you’ve only recently appointed and give him a good run under the new strategy.
I would like to have known, in the opinion of the board, which of the 8-8-8 categories Dobson and CBT fit into. Do they consider them 'elite' or 'consistent'?
We currently only have 2 very good (elite) players who are fit, these two. If they go we will be in deep trouble, especially if Alfie's minor injury is a 'Charlton' one...
I agree. The next question would be if we are offering them contracts that we believe will appeal to 'elite' players but these two turn them down then there is little hope of acquiring such talent in the future.
There’s a fairly simple way to test the 8-8-8 theory in the real world. Look at the Ipswich squad that got promoted, and Bolton’s this season. Mind you, the test would be much more valid if done with the active participation of a knowledgeable Ipswich and Bolton fan.
Surely the 888 shouldn't be seen as too literal in any event?
Isn't it just stating the obvious (but trying to make it look like magical formula by adding numbers) that ideally you want a blend of those players you don't want to lose / will stay if we get promoted, seasoned pros who 'do a job' but are 'in's and out's' each year plus the upcoming youth?
Its just PR words.
Having it in mind as a working concept is one thing, but sharing it with the fans given our current position left them open to ridicule, as seen from some of the comments on here. I think that was a mistake. An honest one, but still a mistake if they thought the effect would be to win people over to the view that they have a template for recruitment that will lead us to success. Which other successful clubs use such a model I wonder? I don't think any were mentioned, but I could be wrong. It may have convinced some, and who knows it might work because we can't do much worse than we have been doing recruitment wise. Only time will tell and I'm reserving judgement for now.
Forgetting about the other 8 and 8, but if we got 8 players who met their elite L1 criteria, we would be up there for sure. But I didn't hear how we achieve that, only how we are likely to lose two of our current players who might fit that elite L1 description and that Bromley Charlton fans were happy about that even though fans at that meeting have suggested that wasn't the case.
Forgetting about the other 8 and 8, but if we got 8 players who met their elite L1 criteria, we would be up there for sure. But I didn't hear how we achieve that, only how we are likely to lose two of our current players who might fit that elite L1 description and that Bromley Charlton fans were happy about that even though fans at that meeting have suggested that wasn't the case.
I wasn't at the Bromley meeting of course, but if I had been asked the question "We have a player(s) who is out of contract in June 2024 and who is refusing to sign a new contract that we believe to be fair in all the circumstances - what would you do in the January 2024 transfer window?" - I would answer "sell". That doesn't mean I would be happy about it but it is the only pragmatic solution.
I would like to have known, in the opinion of the board, which of the 8-8-8 categories Dobson and CBT fit into. Do they consider them 'elite' or 'consistent'?
Dobson , CBT and May are the only 3 that would remotely fit into the elite category. It shows how short we are and 2 of them are possibly leaving.
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Rodwell was replying to a question from the front row about Dobbo & CBT. The questioner appeared to me, to be accepting of them being sold. Rodwell asked the questioner whether he would sell them if they didn't sign the offered contracts. The questioner agreed he would. That was it. There were no hear hears, no dissent, no boos. I assume in Rodwell's mind the fact that no one shouted out dissenting, led him to believe that everyone agreed that they should be sold. I put this down to wishful thinking on his part. My take on it is that the supporters are roughly equally divided. Few want them sold, but some think taking the money now and risking relegation is a decent choice.
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Rodwell was replying to a question from the front row about Dobbo & CBT. The questioner appeared to me, to be accepting of them being sold. Rodwell asked the questioner whether he would sell them if they didn't sign the offered contracts. The questioner agreed he would. That was it. There were no hear hears, no dissent, no boos. I assume in Rodwell's mind the fact that no one shouted out dissenting, led him to believe that everyone agreed that they should be sold. I put this down to wishful thinking on his part. My take on it is that the supporters are roughly equally divided. Few want them sold, but some think taking the money now and risking relegation is a decent choice.
I would have a view if I knew how good the contracts offered are. As I don't I would hope we offer the best terms we can afford to with a mind to how difficult, and expensive, they might be to replace.
To be able to sell something we need a buyer .. It's a sellers market what realistically could we get (is it worth it, with the risk of relegation on the horizon) and who would want them Surely the players are thinking that £2-300k fee would be in his pocket in 6 months time as a signing on fee .
Once you recognise the madness of signing a jumble of players over different windows and different managers for different systems then it’s logical to stick with a manager you’ve only recently appointed and give him a good run under the new strategy.
Some sort of logic maybe but where's the cutoff between logic and common sense?
Brings to mind the old joke: Walking home last night I saw a bloke crawling around on all 4s under a streetlamp apparently looking for something. I asked him what he'd lost and did he need any help. 'Yes please, mate, I dropped me keys, can't get in the house without 'em' minutes pass and we've found nothing, I ask 'Where were you when you dropped them, did you hear them land?'
'Yes mate I heard them, I was over there in that alley behind you...' 'Eh? Why are we looking here?' 'Dark over there b'jaysus, there's more light here'
With regard to their 8-8-8 plan (which by the way sounds like an imperial Japanes navy building plan) do within Oxford with all their injuries are operating such a plan when they beat us so easily.
The trouble with the 8-8-8 plan is in football terms it’s a retrospective measure rather than a proactive one.
The saying you’re only as good as your last game holds value; you have no idea if a senior pro is one of your elite or middle band squad filler until you retrospectively evaluate their contribution, and you’ve no way of knowing if any of those 8 youngsters will be good enough to fill a squad spot until they are given exposure.
Just thinking about the quality of the players we had in the 2019 promotion season, I’m not even sure that CBT and Dobbo would fall into the elite category. Definitely May but that may well be it. Which of course explains why we are where we are.
The other factor is what offers we've received for Dobson and Cory. Every player has a price you can't refuse, while conversely if the offers are pisstakes, then you might as well keep them.
£50k, not worth it £1m , sell sell sell £500k, sell £200k, not sure
Listened to most of it - thoroughly unimpressed with all 3 of them tbh - lets hope the actions are better than the individuals - got a feeling they won’t be
The other factor is what offers we've received for Dobson and Cory. Every player has a price you can't refuse, while conversely if the offers are pisstakes, then you might as well keep them.
£50k, not worth it £1m , sell sell sell £500k, sell £200k, not sure
It isn't a matter of the offers if the player doesn't want to go. They know they get a big payday in the summer when they are free agents. That is why it is unlikely Dobbo, CBT or indeed JCH will move in this window.
I read all the comments on here before i watched the YouTube video and was expecting a car crash of an interview but it never happened. Compared to the crap that came from Dutchatlet , The Spivs , Southall and Sandgaard i came out of it much more optimistic.
Sure , Elliot waffles on like he's just read a dictionary and none of it has any substance but i liked most of what the other two said. It may turn out they are a bunch of chancers as well but my gut says that they are serious about making it work but it will take time. As a group of fans we are so disillusioned with owners we are quick to dismiss anything an owners says , and it's totally understandable.
I don't take the 8-8-8 as literal because injuries will prevent that ever working but i'm with @Fanny Fanackapan when she say that she's disappointed that minor issues /comments have been blown out of proportion . I'm not convinced Appleton will be here very long ( Fingers Crossed) most of the rest of what i heard , i'm optimistic about.
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Rodwell was replying to a question from the front row about Dobbo & CBT. The questioner appeared to me, to be accepting of them being sold. Rodwell asked the questioner whether he would sell them if they didn't sign the offered contracts. The questioner agreed he would. That was it. There were no hear hears, no dissent, no boos. I assume in Rodwell's mind the fact that no one shouted out dissenting, led him to believe that everyone agreed that they should be sold. I put this down to wishful thinking on his part. My take on it is that the supporters are roughly equally divided. Few want them sold, but some think taking the money now and risking relegation is a decent choice.
I see selling either Dobbo or CBT, BEFORE signing their replacements (if this window) is like removing your car tyre without having any spare to go straight on. Their quality is essential to the team at the present time. Of course they can be replaced, but not a hope in hell by anyone from the academy. I love to see the youngsters progress, but in my view even Leaburn is still in his infancy and should be a fringe player, and would be at a lot of clubs aiming for (and achieving) promotion.
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It seems to me that rather than a choice between being patient or "getting the pigs back out" I suspect the new reality is, show us some evidence or realistic hope of success or you'll soon be owning/managing the equivalent of the Marie Celeste
Isn't it just stating the obvious (but trying to make it look like magical formula by adding numbers) that ideally you want a blend of those players you don't want to lose / will stay if we get promoted, seasoned pros who 'do a job' but are 'in's and out's' each year plus the upcoming youth?
Its just PR words.
If you took away 8 of their decent players and replaced them with 8 people from their academy, I doubt they would still be 2nd.
However, that's neither here nor there as justifying Appleton's existence in this way is a nonsense. He's not up to it and the longer he stays the worse it's going to get. I know he's missing some players but so was the Oxford manager the other day but he did something about it and in one training session he amended the system and left S.E.7 with 3 points in his back pocket!
Sometimes you just have to accept that you made a really bad appointment and do something about it. Nero, fiddles and Rome spring to mind.
Investing in players is more than just the transfer fee itself. This is being shown in the JCH transfer as clearly we haven't matched his expectations despite having agreed the fee.
It's further underlined with Dobbo and CBT as we seemingly aren't offering them acceptable deals either. They probably aren't demanding the earth either. I recall that Yann only wanted a year or two more which should have been a no brainer and we all know how costly that proved to be.
This is worrying as it suggests the owners simply don't have the money or are not prepared to invest what they do have.
Believe you me.
The questioner appeared to me, to be accepting of them being sold.
Rodwell asked the questioner whether he would sell them if they didn't sign the offered contracts. The questioner agreed he would.
That was it.
There were no hear hears, no dissent, no boos.
I assume in Rodwell's mind the fact that no one shouted out dissenting, led him to believe that everyone agreed that they should be sold.
I put this down to wishful thinking on his part.
My take on it is that the supporters are roughly equally divided.
Few want them sold, but some think taking the money now and risking relegation is a decent choice.
It's a sellers market
what realistically could we get (is it worth it, with the risk of relegation on the horizon) and who would want them
Surely the players are thinking that £2-300k fee would be in his pocket in 6 months time as a signing on fee .
Brings to mind the old joke:
Walking home last night I saw a bloke crawling around on all 4s under a streetlamp apparently looking for something.
I asked him what he'd lost and did he need any help.
'Yes please, mate, I dropped me keys, can't get in the house without 'em'
minutes pass and we've found nothing, I ask
'Where were you when you dropped them, did you hear them land?'
'Yes mate I heard them, I was over there in that alley behind you...'
'Eh? Why are we looking here?'
'Dark over there b'jaysus, there's more light here'
£50k, not worth it
£1m , sell sell sell
£500k, sell
£200k, not sure
Compared to the crap that came from Dutchatlet , The Spivs , Southall and Sandgaard i came out of it much more optimistic.
Sure , Elliot waffles on like he's just read a dictionary and none of it has any substance but i liked most of what the other two said.
It may turn out they are a bunch of chancers as well but my gut says that they are serious about making it work but it will take time.
As a group of fans we are so disillusioned with owners we are quick to dismiss anything an owners says , and it's totally understandable.
I don't take the 8-8-8 as literal because injuries will prevent that ever working but i'm with @Fanny Fanackapan when she say that she's disappointed that minor issues /comments have been blown out of proportion .
I'm not convinced Appleton will be here very long ( Fingers Crossed) most of the rest of what i heard , i'm optimistic about.