I am left wondering about what happens when the losses mount up?
It might be a strategy from the management to persuade the investors that the losses aren't too bad, by selling any decent players like Miles or May, before the ledgers are unveiled. Thus buying the present management time to continue with whatever they think they can do.
Trouble is this will only work in the short term, and in the end the major money people will have to choose between putting more money in, or walking away.
It may also be that the owners/investors say 'woah, don't sell our good players, we'll cover the losses, keep on keeping on'. Hoping for bigger crowds, footballing success and better general income.
Another scenario is if the major shareholders flex their muscles and remove/change the present management structure. That would take some clear headed thinking for sure.
You’ve really got to work on these melon puns Seth
Our American owners have allowed Methven to put together a group of people to try and get Charlton back to the championship. Methven has recruited the likes of Andy Scott and Jim Rodwell along with a few others. How much time they will be given to achieve this I do not know, but Americans can be quite trigger happy if things aren't working out.
Judging from what was said last night it would appear that Appleton will be given this transfer window to see what he can do. Plus with a couple of players returning from injury results should improve.
I think that by putting a group of people together to run the club properly the Americans are on the right track. My main concern is Andy Scott, I just don’t believe he has the skills to put together a squad of players good enough to get us promoted. Some of the players we have bought in over the last couple of transfer windows have been very poor to say the least.
Also I agree with the idea that you can't keep firing manager's, there comes a point when you have to stick with a manager and give him time to build a squad. Unfortunately it appears Appleton is that man and I really don't think he's up to it.
For what it's worth I predict Scott and Appleton will both be replaced sometime next season and we start again. How long our owners will want to carry on for without seeing results I have no idea. Anyway LLLABH.
Personally, I was transfixed with Jim’s Barnet and found myself asking … does he Gel or use hairspray 🤔
As a thinning man whose facial hair makes him look like catweezle if left unattended for more than a week I have to say it's inarguable that Rodwell has a resplendent barnet and beard game going on.
Premier or even Champions League level grooming going on.
Make of that what you will but I for one think it's a very good omen for our rise back to the promised land and am somewhat surprised more have not taken a similar level of comfort and inspiration from it on this thread hitherto.
Losing CBT & Dobb in this window will stop more fans watching the first team matches as many have said they are the players they turn up to see.
What if Alfie decides he wants to go too? What`s left to excite the fans?
I am feeling uneasy because Alfie has been absent in the run up to the Window with a back injury that came as a surprise to me and has not been much mentioned since his absence. As far as I know, Alfie`s name has not been connected to this transfer window but he must be on the radar of other clubs looking to improve their goals and points positions.
If all three should depart, the Management team can hold up their "wad" to the investors and claim they are doing a great job on their behalf. (Vacant berths to be taken up by Loans only it seems)?
What`s left of a first team will struggle even more to get results and be in serious trouble of a freefall towrds Division 2.
Maybe I am the only one worring about Alfie? BUT, he has been playing out of position for the last few games before his injury and his goals have dried up. He cannot feel happy about that.
After listening to the Management Team tonight, it seems no improvements will be made to the contact offers of the first two so they will probably leave if better terms are offered elsewhere. It also struck me that we may only see loans come in during this window with permanents left until the Summer?
We will know by 1st February what we can expect to enjoy for the remainder of the season.
I am also feeling a little concerned over the injury to Alfie May . When he came off against Bristol Rovers with as we found out later trouble with his back? Understand he was in tears as he left the pitch from what I read.
Don’t expect Appleton or the SMT to come out with what the exact problem is or length of time he is out, that would be playing into the hands of other teams in our division.
But for me I have avery bad feeling about this situation with his injury.
Only time will tell and of course I hope I have misread the situation.
Our American owners have allowed Methven to put together a group of people to try and get Charlton back to the championship. Methven has recruited the likes of Andy Scott and Jim Rodwell along with a few others. How much time they will be given to achieve this I do not know, but Americans can be quite trigger happy if things aren't working out.
Judging from what was said last night it would appear that Appleton will be given this transfer window to see what he can do. Plus with a couple of players returning from injury results should improve.
I think that by putting a group of people together to run the club properly the Americans are on the right track. My main concern is Andy Scott, I just don’t believe he has the skills to put together a squad of players good enough to get us promoted. Some of the players we have bought in over the last couple of transfer windows have been very poor to say the least.
Also I agree with the idea that you can't keep firing manager's, there comes a point when you have to stick with a manager and give him time to build a squad. Unfortunately it appears Appleton is that man and I really don't think he's up to it.
For what it's worth I predict Scott and Appleton will both be replaced sometime next season and we start again. How long our owners will want to carry on for without seeing results I have no idea. Anyway LLLABH.
This is how I see it. However, I can’t see Scott & Appleton being here come start of next season, unless we some how show title winning form over next 21 matches.
- it was a good effort at communicating openly with fans. The format has obvious limitations but a wide reach. - overall I don't feel overly confident after it - I think that's mainly because I didn't get a clear sense of who does what among those three, and who else is really doing what. Elliott tried to explain it in terms of investors investing, rather than the TS model of investing and trying to run the thing too, and so they are the SMT mandated by the investors.I get that. Except there is also Charlie Methven, and he is above them in the general pecking order. Then you have Scott. And we have had mixed messages among those four (Methven is clearly deliberately remaining silent) about this window. It seems to me a cumbersome SMT structure. But I may be unfair in saying that. - I've never been overly keen on Paul Elliott "in the boardroom", where he has been a presence for years. Last time I was invited in there, must have been early in the RD era, he was there and while I didn't speak to him, something about his overall bearing in that lounge didn't sit right with me. It might be just he is physically imposing, to be fair. But it's taken a long time for him to be formally involved in this way with the club. After last night I still have no clear idea what his unique role and focus in this line-up is. - Rodwell I think is not naturally comfortable in this kind of public interview setting. Sometimes he uses words loosely and gets himself in more trouble than perhaps he deserves. The Karoy Anderson/PL loan thing is no more than that, IMO. He'd benefit from some media training. - Gavin Carter I felt most comfortable with, and it was interesting to hear he has been at most games this season. But again, how much influence will he have, and in what area? Unsure. - The best piece of news, on an issue I think most fans under-rate, is the new guy from Brighton in the 'performance" role. Belatedly he is evidence of what Methven told me, that they recognise the issue of injury/rehab/ general fittness levels. But this season is already a write-off and already threatening, in that context. Furthermore, we now learn that Fiorini, the second loanee, needs to be "eased into it" because of his injury record.
The last point is the problem. There seem still to be mixed messages when it comes to the short-term, i.e. using the window to ensure that at least we finish comfortably middle of the table with the opportunity to get buildng blocks in place for next season, i.e. sorting that defence out, getting more leadership quality in the team, and working out how to get the best from Alfie May. Actually I would never have expected so many permanent signings in this window because it is generally known that clubs over-pay in this window and better to have a good plan for the summer which is ready to go in May. Scott seems to have caused confusion by suggesting there would be mostly permanent signings - but maybe that too is confused messaging. Then the serious possibility that Dobbo and CBT leave this window on top...that is even worse.
Finally I think Charlotte deserves special praise. Basically that was the equivalent of asking Alan Shearer to stand in for Fiona Bruce on QT. Highly charged, full of potential minefields and and with the weight of fans' expectations on her shoulders. Most people will have no idea how tricky this stuff is generally, and imagine that they could all do it. As far as I know, she is largely self-taught, and if she was responsible for selecting the questions too, that was even more of an ask. Take a bow, girl.
I actually thought it was better than I expected. Learnt nothing really, but it was good to hear Rodwell speak. I didn’t expect anything tbh, but thought they might be more hostile. What disappointed me was the low viewing figures, hoped for better uptake than that.
What were the viewing figures and is this a combined Charlton TV & You Tube figure?
In terms of Karoyandersongate we loaned Premier League youngster Nile John (still slated as a Tottenham player) who could barely make our U21’s and was nowhere as good as our players.
I've read that we are trying to achieve a 'club style' of football which is to be installed from the academy to the first team. This supposedly helps players to seamlessly fit in when moving between the various levels. But ...
Is flexibility lost? Does this limit the manager tactically during games? Does it help the opposition to unpick us? Can good players not adapt and change to suit the circumstances even within the 90 minutes game.
They all talked a good game, but I'll wait and see if they show their ambition by sticking their hands in their pocket. Personally don't think Appleton will get us out of this league and Andy Scott has a lot to prove as well. Paul Elliott going on and on about diversity and Rodwell about the matchday experience none of that matters to the majority of fans, getting out of this shite lge is what matters or attendances will reduce even more the longer we're in it, regardless of how diverse the club is or how good the matchday experience is.
I've read that we are trying to achieve a 'club style' of football which is to be installed from the academy to the first team. This supposedly helps players to seamlessly fit in when moving between the various levels. But ...
Is flexibility lost? Does this limit the manager tactically during games? Does it help the opposition to unpick us? Can good players not adapt and change to suit the circumstances even within the 90 minutes game.
The answer is no to all 3 of your questions. The idea is you have core principles that you stick to. That might be about possession style, pressing, how high your back line is etc. That's the framework you then build out from. You can then create different plans for different scenarios and change them in game. The manager can make them or give certain players the power to change this as they see fit on the pitch where appropriate. In theory, your players become much more tactically adept and therefore flexible and able to see what the opposition is doing well/badly. It also makes it much easier for academy players to step in as they know how the team plays. TC, Anderson and Asiimwe often play better when on the pitch together as they know each other's games well. Obviously you don't get the social cohesion aspect that Anderson and Asiimwe have but it creates a much clearer pathway.
I've read that we are trying to achieve a 'club style' of football which is to be installed from the academy to the first team. This supposedly helps players to seamlessly fit in when moving between the various levels. But ...
Is flexibility lost? Does this limit the manager tactically during games? Does it help the opposition to unpick us? Can good players not adapt and change to suit the circumstances even within the 90 minutes game.
The answer is no to all 3 of your questions. The idea is you have core principles that you stick to. That might be about possession style, pressing, how high your back line is etc. That's the framework you then build out from. You can then create different plans for different scenarios and change them in game. The manager can make them or give certain players the power to change this as they see fit on the pitch where appropriate. In theory, your players become much more tactically adept and therefore flexible and able to see what the opposition is doing well/badly. It also makes it much easier for academy players to step in as they know how the team plays. TC, Anderson and Asiimwe often play better when on the pitch together as they know each other's games well. Obviously you don't get the social cohesion aspect that Anderson and Asiimwe have but it creates a much clearer pathway.
But our current manager is rigid Refuses to change things We've won one in ten Where's the above currently?
I have read all. I cannot speak for all fans but I hope I am in the majority. We are back to the Meire days of management theory. what fans want is a successful team on the field. Diversity, match day experience is not the priority.
Having slept on the 8 plus 8 plus 8 statement, I still think it is a bit silly but getting 8 League One players every other League One team would want would be a massive jump from where we are now and have been recently. How do we get them though? It isn't as if we have five or six now. In reality, if you take out the constantly injured and out of contract we probably have one at this time. So how are we going to attract these 7 players or 5 players in the unlikely event that we manage to keep the two we already have? Powell managed to sell the club to a good number of players who met that elite description and they seemed to want to play for him. Bowyer managed to achieve it too which included some excellent loans. Is Appleton going to have those sort of players queueing to join us? Are we going to pay more for them than others? I could make a slide showing how we would win the Champions League if we recruited the 8 best players in the World, but how would we do that?
I always thought and still do, it was was about getting the right manager in and backing him as much as you can. It seems the way is far more complicated now and it never seems to work and involves more and more people who lack the responsibility and accountability a manager has. Holden and Appleton will be judged on results but Scott on how hard he works! But clubs that go for these sorts of managers, yes, Stevenage is a case in point, seem to do well out of it. I'm not saying we should go for Evans but for the size of club, he leads that club where he wants to take them. Too many cooks and all that.
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Well I will stand up from the sofa and say do everything you can to keep Dobbo and CBT. Of course, if they are determined to go there is not much you can do but how easy and costly is it going to be to replace them, not forgetting the other players your model demands we bring in.
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Not completely fabricated but more of a "interpretation of facts" - there were people who were at least open to the possibility of selling but it wasn't unanimous nor particularly enthusiastic, is my understanding.
Interesting the number on here happy to post its “guff” and “bollocks” snd “will never work” and “investors will walk away” while freely admitting they never actually watched it!
So just for some clarity, when Jim Rodwell said the line about The Bromley Addicks, and that everyone there stood up and said sell George Dobson, or is this completely fabricated?
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
Not completely fabricated but more of a "interpretation of facts" - there were people who were at least open to the possibility of selling but it wasn't unanimous nor particularly enthusiastic, is my understanding.
We may have more structure now, which is a welcome improvement on what came before, but do we have the right people?
Rodwell & Co may feel privileged to be entrusted with the task of rebuilding the club, but they might not enjoy it for long if the owners take note of what's happening at Wrexham and compare their rapid rise to the continuation/worsening of our relative performance.
I'm hoping one of the big money men, with a real passion for it, or so we're told, smells the coffee, realizing what it really takes to be successful, and goes all in, although to trust those currently in charge with the money would be a risky leap of faith.
I don't think that dismissing it completely out of hand as nonsense or bullshit is completely fair, as a lot of the principles and underlying logic is legitimately sound - yes there is a lot of damage that needs to be fixed, yes it will take time and yes employing the right people to do it is the only way forward.
On the other hand, we have only their word so far that we have in fact got the right people who will be able to fix it. The actual evidence SO FAR is against them. Of all the signings made recently only May is the "elite" level, maybe if you are generous Jones could be. Two of the others who predate this ownership are at high risk of being sold/leaving either this month or at the seasons end.
They say a lot of reasonable things, but I have not yet seen them actually put action to those words yet.
The irony about the Anderson comment is we already have a player on loan from the Premier league that's better than him, we just have a manager that's a bit thick.
I know that with all the owners we have had lately, I cannot trust any new owners until I see the evidence, not just talk. I cannot help being suspicious but am I imagining it, that we seem to have contributors on this thread that I cannot remember seeing before and they are all very positive to the new owners. I will not say names because it could be just my memory, but can the mods assure me that we have not got new contributors on this thread. Thank you
Well I will stand up from the sofa and say do everything you can to keep Dobbo and CBT. Of course, if they are determined to go there is not much you can do but how easy and costly is it going to be to replace them, not forgetting the other players your model demands we bring in.
I'm with you on that. Big maxim from the recruitment world. Any idiot can sack (sell) people. The difficult bit is replacing them with someone better.
I know that with all the owners we have had lately, I cannot trust any new owners until I see the evidence, not just talk. I cannot help being suspicious but am I imagining it, that we seem to have contributors on this thread that I cannot remember seeing before and they are all very positive to the new owners. I will not say names because it could be just my memory, but can the mods assure me that we have not got new contributors on this thread. Thank you
I have no doubt that Charlie is on here somewhere - but remember there is also one poster who was very, very anti the new owners until they befriended them (or links to them) on linked in/social media and now they are nothing but very supportive of the people they didn't like.
Having watched it this morning I think some of the criticism here is OTT.
I'm not saying that I think everything is rosy, but equally I would prefer the presentation they've just given than an overly optimistic view on the task ahead. My thoughts:
- there is fundamental understanding of the core problems - there is now an understanding that it will take time to fix. Maybe they didn't fully understand the extent of the problems on purchase but they do now. - I don't think last night was an attempt to convince fans that everything will be alright in the end. Just a communication of where they are. - As an online meeting it can lack 'character' but it has reached a much wider section of the fan base. - They'll stick with Scott & Appleton at least until the end of the season. - Appleton may be 'judged' more as injured players come back. - I suspect Scott may be given this Summer's transfer window to prove himself as there was fairly open acknowledgement that this January's window is very difficult. - the focus on physical performance is spot on. IMHO this has been our biggest weakness since we were last relegated and in stark contrast to other League One teams - Not got a particular problem with the 8,8,8 strategy - The Karoy Anderson thing has been taken completely out of context. Anderson, to me, is like a lot of our younger players. There is talent there but he's not yet ready. Needs a L2 or high level Conference loan for an extended period.
My short term expectations are that we do enough in this transfer window not to get drawn into a relegation battle and that we compete in the Summer window to get us to be a top 6 competitor. I would like us to sign JCH and not sell Dobson or CBT but recognise that those things might not pan out the way I want them to.
The nagging concerns for me are: - how much funding do we actually have and will it be sustained as a longer term project? - Like others I am concerned that MA & AS are not the right people. MA is not that inspiring and AS seems a bit smarmy. But I don't work with them day to day so, for now, I'm prepared to accept Rodwell's judgement. - Whilst I accept that football clubs need to employ a few football people to run playing side I'm not convinced that a relatively small company needs the non playing SMT that it has, maybe if we became super successful but not for where we are now. I thought Rodwell was OK but didn't really see what PE & Gavin added. Also I was bemused as to why CM wasn't there.
I wouldn't, however, have expected any of these concerns to be addressed in last night's format so am prepared to accept what they're saying for the time being. As Dubai has alluded - we are where we are and no amount of magic dust/wishful thinking is going to change that.
I know that with all the owners we have had lately, I cannot trust any new owners until I see the evidence, not just talk. I cannot help being suspicious but am I imagining it, that we seem to have contributors on this thread that I cannot remember seeing before and they are all very positive to the new owners. I will not say names because it could be just my memory, but can the mods assure me that we have not got new contributors on this thread. Thank you
Comments
Premier or even Champions League level grooming going on.
Make of that what you will but I for one think it's a very good omen for our rise back to the promised land and am somewhat surprised more have not taken a similar level of comfort and inspiration from it on this thread hitherto.
But for me I have avery bad feeling about this situation with his injury.
Only time will tell and of course I hope I have misread the situation.
- it was a good effort at communicating openly with fans. The format has obvious limitations but a wide reach.
- overall I don't feel overly confident after it
- I think that's mainly because I didn't get a clear sense of who does what among those three, and who else is really doing what. Elliott tried to explain it in terms of investors investing, rather than the TS model of investing and trying to run the thing too, and so they are the SMT mandated by the investors.I get that. Except there is also Charlie Methven, and he is above them in the general pecking order. Then you have Scott. And we have had mixed messages among those four (Methven is clearly deliberately remaining silent) about this window. It seems to me a cumbersome SMT structure. But I may be unfair in saying that.
- I've never been overly keen on Paul Elliott "in the boardroom", where he has been a presence for years. Last time I was invited in there, must have been early in the RD era, he was there and while I didn't speak to him, something about his overall bearing in that lounge didn't sit right with me. It might be just he is physically imposing, to be fair. But it's taken a long time for him to be formally involved in this way with the club. After last night I still have no clear idea what his unique role and focus in this line-up is.
- Rodwell I think is not naturally comfortable in this kind of public interview setting. Sometimes he uses words loosely and gets himself in more trouble than perhaps he deserves. The Karoy Anderson/PL loan thing is no more than that, IMO. He'd benefit from some media training.
- Gavin Carter I felt most comfortable with, and it was interesting to hear he has been at most games this season. But again, how much influence will he have, and in what area? Unsure.
- The best piece of news, on an issue I think most fans under-rate, is the new guy from Brighton in the 'performance" role. Belatedly he is evidence of what Methven told me, that they recognise the issue of injury/rehab/ general fittness levels. But this season is already a write-off and already threatening, in that context. Furthermore, we now learn that Fiorini, the second loanee, needs to be "eased into it" because of his injury record.
The last point is the problem. There seem still to be mixed messages when it comes to the short-term, i.e. using the window to ensure that at least we finish comfortably middle of the table with the opportunity to get buildng blocks in place for next season, i.e. sorting that defence out, getting more leadership quality in the team, and working out how to get the best from Alfie May. Actually I would never have expected so many permanent signings in this window because it is generally known that clubs over-pay in this window and better to have a good plan for the summer which is ready to go in May. Scott seems to have caused confusion by suggesting there would be mostly permanent signings - but maybe that too is confused messaging. Then the serious possibility that Dobbo and CBT leave this window on top...that is even worse.
Finally I think Charlotte deserves special praise. Basically that was the equivalent of asking Alan Shearer to stand in for Fiona Bruce on QT. Highly charged, full of potential minefields and and with the weight of fans' expectations on her shoulders. Most people will have no idea how tricky this stuff is generally, and imagine that they could all do it. As far as I know, she is largely self-taught, and if she was responsible for selecting the questions too, that was even more of an ask. Take a bow, girl.
This concept has always baffled me.
I've read that we are trying to achieve a 'club style' of football which is to be installed from the academy to the first team. This supposedly helps players to seamlessly fit in when moving between the various levels. But ...
Is flexibility lost?
Does this limit the manager tactically during games?
Does it help the opposition to unpick us?
Can good players not adapt and change to suit the circumstances even within the 90 minutes game.
Refuses to change things
We've won one in ten
Where's the above currently?
what fans want is a successful team on the field. Diversity, match day experience is not the priority.
I always thought and still do, it was was about getting the right manager in and backing him as much as you can. It seems the way is far more complicated now and it never seems to work and involves more and more people who lack the responsibility and accountability a manager has. Holden and Appleton will be judged on results but Scott on how hard he works! But clubs that go for these sorts of managers, yes, Stevenage is a case in point, seem to do well out of it. I'm not saying we should go for Evans but for the size of club, he leads that club where he wants to take them. Too many cooks and all that.
It wasn't like when Jon Snow got the vote of confidence for King in the North?
jeez…
Rodwell & Co may feel privileged to be entrusted with the task of rebuilding the club, but they might not enjoy it for long if the owners take note of what's happening at Wrexham and compare their rapid rise to the continuation/worsening of our relative performance.
I'm hoping one of the big money men, with a real passion for it, or so we're told, smells the coffee, realizing what it really takes to be successful, and goes all in, although to trust those currently in charge with the money would be a risky leap of faith.
On the other hand, we have only their word so far that we have in fact got the right people who will be able to fix it. The actual evidence SO FAR is against them. Of all the signings made recently only May is the "elite" level, maybe if you are generous Jones could be. Two of the others who predate this ownership are at high risk of being sold/leaving either this month or at the seasons end.
They say a lot of reasonable things, but I have not yet seen them actually put action to those words yet.
I'm not saying that I think everything is rosy, but equally I would prefer the presentation they've just given than an overly optimistic view on the task ahead. My thoughts:
- there is fundamental understanding of the core problems
- there is now an understanding that it will take time to fix. Maybe they didn't fully understand the extent of the problems on purchase but they do now.
- I don't think last night was an attempt to convince fans that everything will be alright in the end. Just a communication of where they are.
- As an online meeting it can lack 'character' but it has reached a much wider section of the fan base.
- They'll stick with Scott & Appleton at least until the end of the season.
- Appleton may be 'judged' more as injured players come back.
- I suspect Scott may be given this Summer's transfer window to prove himself as there was fairly open acknowledgement that this January's window is very difficult.
- the focus on physical performance is spot on. IMHO this has been our biggest weakness since we were last relegated and in stark contrast to other League One teams
- Not got a particular problem with the 8,8,8 strategy
- The Karoy Anderson thing has been taken completely out of context. Anderson, to me, is like a lot of our younger players. There is talent there but he's not yet ready. Needs a L2 or high level Conference loan for an extended period.
My short term expectations are that we do enough in this transfer window not to get drawn into a relegation battle and that we compete in the Summer window to get us to be a top 6 competitor. I would like us to sign JCH and not sell Dobson or CBT but recognise that those things might not pan out the way I want them to.
The nagging concerns for me are:
- how much funding do we actually have and will it be sustained as a longer term project?
- Like others I am concerned that MA & AS are not the right people. MA is not that inspiring and AS seems a bit smarmy. But I don't work with them day to day so, for now, I'm prepared to accept Rodwell's judgement.
- Whilst I accept that football clubs need to employ a few football people to run playing side I'm not convinced that a relatively small company needs the non playing SMT that it has, maybe if we became super successful but not for where we are now. I thought Rodwell was OK but didn't really see what PE & Gavin added. Also I was bemused as to why CM wasn't there.
I wouldn't, however, have expected any of these concerns to be addressed in last night's format so am prepared to accept what they're saying for the time being. As Dubai has alluded - we are where we are and no amount of magic dust/wishful thinking is going to change that.
;-)