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England Cricket 2024
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Leuth said:Rob Key in favour of the Kookaburra experiment. I suppose it has enabled spinners to get a proper bowl. It probably has revealed who the properly great seamers are (Sam Cook mostly, but also Porter and some others have looked dangerous). I don't know. Runs have been too easy if anything
In terms of the Kookaburra experiment, Alec Stewart said “I think it’s the worst decision ever” and Mark Robinson's opinion was “I don’t think anyone is enjoying the ball. It makes the cricket sterile and a bit stale.” With 17/18 draws due to the combination of the ball and when the game is being played are a testament to that.
Equally, talented spinners such as the three youngsters that toured India can't bowl if they don't get selected. Play matches in July and August and they will be picked but if all bar three of the games take place in April, May and September they won't. There is also plenty of data demonstrating how when the English game is played has had a massive impact on our ability to produce spinners.
Number of spinners taking 25+ wickets / English spinners as % of all those taking 25+ wickets:
1963 - 40 / 35.40%
1973 - 24 / 24.24%
1983 - 29 / 29.90%
1993 - 22 / 23.91%
2003 - 15 / 19.74%
2013 - 12 / 15.79%
2023 - 6 / 10.53%
The six English spinners that took 25+ wickets last season were:
Dawson (49) - not centrally contracted, he effectively refused to tour because he was ignored for last season's Ashes and financially it was more beneficial for him to play white ball franchise cricket instead. Has 4-156 this season.
Leach (48) - unfortunately has illness and injury issues that restrict his ability to play. Currently out through injury.
Carson (31) - his wickets last season in Div 2 cost 40.32 apiece and he went at fractionally under 4 an over. Has 4-187 this year.
M. Parkinson (29) - discarded by Lancashire mid season, he went on loan to Durham. Now at Kent, he has 5-349 this season.
De Caires (27) - took almost a third of all his wickets in one innings. His return to date in Div 2 is 1-322.
Bess (27) - had to play for three counties to get a game and even then each one cost 44.48 runs on average. Hasn't been selected for Yorkshire this season.
That is why Key, McCullum and Stokes were forced to think out of the box and pick three rookies. All three did very well given the circumstances but that was India and they will only improve if they bowl hundreds of overs in all conditions because otherwise they will get taken apart down under. This is what they have done so far this season (each of them have only played one of their county's respective two games):
Bashir - 1-76
Hartley - 0-4
Ahmed - 0-43
So, combining the six top English spinners from last season with the three unexposed ones that went on tour to India, they have produced a combined return of 11-981 so far this season. The four spinners that went to India have taken just one of those wickets between them at a cost of 123 runs.
Key lauds the Kookaburra experiment (that will resume later in the season) because he's paid to do just that and will probably blame the counties for not playing or producing spinners. The counties don't decide which ball will be utilised or, for that matter, have the ultimate say when the County Championship will be played.4 -
Excellent postAddick Addict said:Leuth said:Rob Key in favour of the Kookaburra experiment. I suppose it has enabled spinners to get a proper bowl. It probably has revealed who the properly great seamers are (Sam Cook mostly, but also Porter and some others have looked dangerous). I don't know. Runs have been too easy if anythingIn terms of the Kookaburra experiment, Alec Stewart said “I think it’s the worst decision ever” and Mark Robinson's opinion was “I don’t think anyone is enjoying the ball. It makes the cricket sterile and a bit stale.” With 17/18 draws due to the combination of the ball and when the game is being played are a testament to that.
Equally, talented spinners such as the three youngsters that toured India can't bowl if they don't get selected. Play matches in July and August and they will be picked but if all bar three of the games take place in April, May and September they won't. There is also plenty of data demonstrating how when the English game is played has had a massive impact on our ability to produce spinners.
Number of spinners taking 25+ wickets / English spinners as % of all those taking 25+ wickets:
1963 - 40 / 35.40%
1973 - 24 / 24.24%
1983 - 29 / 29.90%
1993 - 22 / 23.91%
2003 - 15 / 19.74%
2013 - 12 / 15.79%
2023 - 6 / 10.53%
The six English spinners that took 25+ wickets last season were:
Dawson (49) - not centrally contracted, he effectively refused to tour because he was ignored for last season's Ashes and financially it was more beneficial for him to play white ball franchise cricket instead. Has 4-156 this season.
Leach (48) - unfortunately has illness and injury issues that restrict his ability to play. Currently out through injury.
Carson (31) - his wickets last season in Div 2 cost 40.32 apiece and he went at fractionally under 4 an over. Has 4-187 this year.
M. Parkinson (29) - discarded by Lancashire mid season, he went on loan to Durham. Now at Kent, he has 5-349 this season.
De Caires (27) - took almost a third of all his wickets in one innings. His return to date in Div 2 is 1-322.
Bess (27) - had to play for three counties to get a game and even then each one cost 44.48 runs on average. Hasn't been selected for Yorkshire this season.
That is why Key, McCullum and Stokes were forced to think out of the box and pick three rookies. All three did very well given the circumstances but that was India and they will only improve if they bowl hundreds of overs in all conditions because otherwise they will get taken apart down under. This is what they have done so far this season (each of them have only played one of their county's respective two games):
Bashir - 1-76
Hartley - 0-4
Ahmed - 0-43
So, combining the six top English spinners from last season with the three unexposed ones that went on tour to India, they have produced a combined return of 11-981 so far this season. The four spinners that went to India have taken just one of those wickets between them at a cost of 123 runs.
Key lauds the Kookaburra experiment (that will resume later in the season) because he's paid to do just that and will probably blame the counties for not playing or producing spinners. The counties don't decide which ball will be utilised or, for that matter, have the ultimate say when the County Championship will be played.1 -
I don’t think what we’ve seen seen in the last two weeks in worse than Ryan Higgins taking 14 wickets in a 2 day game .2
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Just feels like there's been a lot of sides absolutely piling on the runs these first 2 weeks and getting in really good positions and then the weather has massively played it's part. Not a fan of the Kookaburra experiment but I don't think Key would ever say anything negative against it and I'd take more stock in the opinions of coaches and players about it.
That wasn't a subpar Durham attack that got absolutely flailed to all parts of Edgbaston by Warwickshire, they had Matt Potts,Scott Boland and Brydon Carse at their disposal and you still ended up with 698/3d.
Those spinner stats are really really interesting, I've only really seen anything of Jack Carson this season and he's been offering more with the bat it seems.1 -
Great Post Addick Addict1
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Are Rob Key and the ECB, in suggesting that the Kookaburra ball should be used all year round and in playing CC matches when they are least weather friendly for both results and the weather, trying to kill red ball in this country? I'm not sure what more they could be doing to do so.
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I dint think the timing and the weather helped but 4 games with the Kookaburra ball mid/end season when weather is better and pitches are dryer will be good for both batsmen and bowlers to learn and improve against.
As mentioned above I still think what we've seen in these 2 rounds of games is much better watching and for the development of players than green tops with 65mph seamers taking 10fers all around.
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cantersaddick said:I dint think the timing and the weather helped but 4 games with the Kookaburra ball mid/end season when weather is better and pitches are dryer will be good for both batsmen and bowlers to learn and improve against.
As mentioned above I still think what we've seen in these 2 rounds of games is much better watching and for the development of players than green tops with 65mph seamers taking 10fers all around.We are going to have to disagree on that one. Spinners learn nothing when they either aren't being selected or, even if they are, they are being smashed around the park because the wickets offer them zilch. The fact that our best nine spinners took 11 wickets at almost 90 apiece in 18 matches is testament to that.
I've quoted the perspective from Surrey (Alec Stewart) but this is Michael Atherton's view on the subject - let's remember that not only did he learn how to bat in the CC against some of the greats but also that his son, Josh de Caires, is one of the nine spinners I've mentioned. So he probably has a pretty good understanding of things:
"There is no perspective which would advocate a first-class competition beginning in the first week of April, on pitches that can only be extremely slow, followed by seven more rounds in six weeks before summer begins in earnest. Nor, if asked, would spectators choose to watch first-class cricket in these often-bitter early April conditions. It breeds a moderate standard of cricket and a disgruntled spectator."
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One of the most one-sided ODIs of all time just ending.
The sides in question, being the captains versus everyone else
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/sri-lanka-women-in-south-africa-2023-24-1398245/south-africa-women-vs-sri-lanka-women-3rd-odi-1398267/full-scorecard
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I read your whole post and it seems like you’re arguing a point that everyone already agrees with. Playing less red ball cricket in April is something everyone can get behind.Addick Addict said:cantersaddick said:I dint think the timing and the weather helped but 4 games with the Kookaburra ball mid/end season when weather is better and pitches are dryer will be good for both batsmen and bowlers to learn and improve against.
As mentioned above I still think what we've seen in these 2 rounds of games is much better watching and for the development of players than green tops with 65mph seamers taking 10fers all around.We are going to have to disagree on that one. Spinners learn nothing when they either aren't being selected or, even if they are, they are being smashed around the park because the wickets offer them zilch. The fact that our best nine spinners took 11 wickets at almost 90 apiece in 18 matches is testament to that.
I've quoted the perspective from Surrey (Alec Stewart) but this is Michael Atherton's view on the subject - let's remember that not only did he learn how to bat in the CC against some of the greats but also that his son, Josh de Caires, is one of the nine spinners I've mentioned. So he probably has a pretty good understanding of things:
"There is no perspective which would advocate a first-class competition beginning in the first week of April, on pitches that can only be extremely slow, followed by seven more rounds in six weeks before summer begins in earnest. Nor, if asked, would spectators choose to watch first-class cricket in these often-bitter early April conditions. It breeds a moderate standard of cricket and a disgruntled spectator."
But what’s any of that that got to do with the Kookaburra experiment? I’m struggling to read anti-Kookaburra arguments as anything other than appeals to tradition. It should be a certain way because that’s how it’s always been.
I personally quite like the fact that there’s been fewer batting collapses. The most recent match at Chelmsford was much more gripping than last season’s opener against Northants where both teams first innings amounted to less than 350 runs combined. Having a team be all out for 120 odd before tea on day 1 should be an exception, not a norm in my opinion.
As with anything, the longer the Kookaburra is used, the more bowlers will adapt and find ways to take wickets. I’m ready to see the end of blokes trundling to the crease and letting the ball do most of the work for them.1 - Sponsored links:
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I'm not disagreeing that playing first class cricket in early april is madness (and late april is a risk). My point was that if done later in the season when the weather is (generally) better and pitches are dryer the kookaburra ball experiment could be a good thing. Pitches will offer something for the spinners and so teams will be more likely to pick them, it will give batsmen a chance to get more reward and favour teams that pick bowlers with genuine pace and bounce rather than medium pace seamers. All of those can only be a good thing for the English game and the national team.Addick Addict said:cantersaddick said:I dint think the timing and the weather helped but 4 games with the Kookaburra ball mid/end season when weather is better and pitches are dryer will be good for both batsmen and bowlers to learn and improve against.
As mentioned above I still think what we've seen in these 2 rounds of games is much better watching and for the development of players than green tops with 65mph seamers taking 10fers all around.We are going to have to disagree on that one. Spinners learn nothing when they either aren't being selected or, even if they are, they are being smashed around the park because the wickets offer them zilch. The fact that our best nine spinners took 11 wickets at almost 90 apiece in 18 matches is testament to that.
I've quoted the perspective from Surrey (Alec Stewart) but this is Michael Atherton's view on the subject - let's remember that not only did he learn how to bat in the CC against some of the greats but also that his son, Josh de Caires, is one of the nine spinners I've mentioned. So he probably has a pretty good understanding of things:
"There is no perspective which would advocate a first-class competition beginning in the first week of April, on pitches that can only be extremely slow, followed by seven more rounds in six weeks before summer begins in earnest. Nor, if asked, would spectators choose to watch first-class cricket in these often-bitter early April conditions. It breeds a moderate standard of cricket and a disgruntled spectator."
I saw Joe Denly posting on insta supporting Key's comments saying batsmen wont have an excuse and bowlers will have to work for their wickets and develop skills needed around the world not just in England.
I'm not saying do it all season but 2 games mid season and 2 games end season would be a good idea imo.
Surrey have an interesting decision - leg spinning allrounder Cam Steel has been playing as 2nd spinner to Dan Lawrence and is currently top wicket taker in the comp taking 14 at 12s. but in his post match interview Cam basically said he didn't reckon he would be picked for the next game, Dan Worrall will be back and with the Dukes ball we like to go with 5 seamers and one (part time) spinner. He basically said that Surrey playing him as the extra spinner in these last 2 matches was mainly down to the ball. I am certain we will see less spinners picked in the next round than we have in the first 2.0 -
Archer is in the provisional WC squad. Slightly surprised that Jordan has made it. Would also have been inclined to go with Dawson rather than Hartley (bowled just four balls in the Lancs first team this summer) but then the former has seemingly fallen out with Key and the ECB.
Jos Buttler (capt, wk), Moeen Ali, Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow, Harry Brook, Sam Curran, Ben Duckett, Tom Hartley, Will Jacks, Chris Jordan, Liam Livingstone, Adil Rashid, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, Mark Wood.
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11 of the 15 man squad are attached to Lancashire, Yorkshire or Surrey respectively. Archer is the only one who doesn't "play" for a Test and/or Hundred hosting county and he doesn't turn out for Sussex anyway - since September 2018 he has only made five appearances for Sussex out of 120 matches he's played in total for seven different sides.
A sign of things to come as I'm sure that those who are selected for England will be encouraged to move from the "minor" counties to the bigger ones. Of this squad, Buttler, Moeen, Duckett, Jordan, Salt and Topley all have done so. The days of the likes of Cook, Hussain, Hick, Caddick etc etc are somewhat numbered.3 -
Has a vice captain been named? Given that Buttler will most likely miss some of the Pakistan series, I would think naming a VC would be a priority now.Callumcafc said:0 -
Moeen Ali is vice-captain I believe. There is a thought that Buttler might not keep with Salt or Bairstow getting the job mainly because of the time constraints and penalties for not bowling overs in time.Chizz said:
Has a vice captain been named? Given that Buttler will most likely miss some of the Pakistan series, I would think naming a VC would be a priority now.Callumcafc said:0 -
According to reports, over a round of golf, Jimmy Anderson was told by Brendan McCullum that England will be looking to the future after this summer. It would be great if he could go out on a high.0
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The Ashes isn't for another 18 months. If true clearly Brendan doesn't think Jimmy will last that long.Addick Addict said:According to reports, over a round of golf, Jimmy Anderson was told by Brendan McCullum that England will be looking to the future after this summer. It would be great if he could go out on a high.
A rather underwhelming summer to go out on.1 -
Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo1 -
Sounds to me that McCullum told him that his time was over but they would give him one last game as a send off. I read yesterday that Anderson was hoping to have his final Test match at Old Trafford in August. seems like that's not going to happen. Wonder what they will do if he's not fit for the Lords Test ?MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo0 - Sponsored links:
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Not play him.golfaddick said:
Sounds to me that McCullum told him that his time was over but they would give him one last game as a send off. I read yesterday that Anderson was hoping to have his final Test match at Old Trafford in August. seems like that's not going to happen. Wonder what they will do if he's not fit for the Lords Test ?MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo2 -
Weird that he won't be playing at Old Trafford. It's the first Test of the series, so 2 Tests afterwards to play youngsters.0
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We're going to that Test on the Thursday.MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo2 -
Hopefully you will get to see him bowl.Covered End said:
We're going to that Test on the Thursday.MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo1 -
So I am. With Bazball and weak opposition, it'll be interesting how long the game lasts. I can't see a stirring 5th day climax for Jimmy somehow, unlike Cook and Broad's final games.Covered End said:
We're going to that Test on the Thursday.MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo1 -
I'm not usually in favour of 'nostalgic gestures', however, given his remarkable and long lasting England career, surely a last test at Old Trafford would have been the way for the Burnley Boy to bow out, especially as there is an 'end' named after him in the Manchester ground.golfaddick said:
Sounds to me that McCullum told him that his time was over but they would give him one last game as a send off. I read yesterday that Anderson was hoping to have his final Test match at Old Trafford in August. seems like that's not going to happen. Wonder what they will do if he's not fit for the Lords Test ?MarcusH26 said:Anderson to retire after the first test at Lord's in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/c98z9rqd79vo
The last Jimmy test over bowled from the James Anderson end would have been a wonderfully poetic send off from (say) Aggers who is also bowing out as the BBC Cricket Correspondent2 -
He hasn't actually confirmed what his last game will be (for Lancs) just that he’ll be playing for Lancs before the Lords test which will be his last for England. Where he made his debut. He didn’t even say he will defo not play next season for lancs.Got tickets on day 4 lord's but trying to get some for days 1-3. Ideally 1 so I can hear the Windies national anthem live. It’s a cracker.0
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Will be interesting to see Jayden Seales the young Windies pace bowler against England , he's been absolutely outstanding in the championship for Sussex.0
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According to some experts the person to replace Jimmy Anderson is someone called Dillon Pennington. One over footage of the guy in action against another Pom in Australia - from 3:25:21 onwards. The batsman sure knows where his off stump is - or not as you will see from the first ball of the following over from the other end!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KWAqJIQTok&t=12541s
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Made up his mind not to play at It pre shot1
