I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
I feel the same with Beale he could being though our young players effectively and with all that talent there is a unique opportunity at charlton. however, to take advantage of that will need sandgaard to allow beale the time and be patient.. not just TS but us fans too.
Singing you don't know what your doing after a dozen games next season as we have 67% possession in so many matches but win 3, lose 3 and draw 6 won't help.
Just checking for a friend but would we rather just miss out playing the MK Dons way, or get promoted playing similar to Rotherham ( Michael Smith and Stockley are similar) who were promoted and Wycombe who have a 50/50 chance of being promoted ?
IF/When Fraser gets fit the best way to get out of League 1 is to dovetail the two styles of ball retention but also sharp quick attacks with quality balls into the box from advanced positions so either Stockley/Aneke two of the best header of the ball can run on to. On the desk as well for our new attacking midfielder or new replacement for Washington to run on to.
Mix and match with relationships all over the field.
Tough gig at Cafc, Pompey, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, now Derby. All those teams have fans who believe their teams are "massive", Charlton Athletic fans as well as Wednesday and the rest of the above.
Rotherham are certainly much more direct than MK Dons, but they weren’t what I would consider a long ball team by any stretch of the imagination.
All the balls that went into Smith in the two games I saw against them were played with quality, pace and usually into a channel he was moving into where he could control and bring other players into the game.
And usually that out ball was only played if they couldn’t move it though the thirds quickly on a turn over of play.
Long ball to me is usually when teams smash the ball high into the air for the striker to try and head it onto runners.
Quality long passes normally diagonal from Naby Sarr(yes, really on occasions) and demonstrated by the magic in his boots Trent Alexander-Arnold are nothing to do will pointless long straight hoof balls that go flying over a 6ft 4in strikers head.
That why I said crossing from an advanced positions not aimless long passes from the back by the likes of Famewo, Pearce etc in recent times.
It would be great to emulate the ball retention and scoring ability of Gus Poyet's Brighton team back in the 3rd tier when we couldn't get a kick or the attacking prowess of Eddie Howe's Bournemouth side when he played attacking football from League 2 right the way through to the Premier and the way he used Yann with passes to his feet was a master class in pass and move with the lighting quick Wilson as the main striker ahead of Yann to win the Championship.
At least 50% of Charlton fans wouldn't accept the transition and a possible 8th or 9th finish next season as yet another season in League 1 accrues.
Singing your not fit to wear the shirt is hindering bonding with the better player like Dobson, Clare and CBT.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Cue total melt down if it doesn't happen by Wednesday now.
I really wish I could cut ties with the addiction that is Charlton.
So many miserable old farts. It was the same in the Premier league and it was likely the same before. It seems it is just being a football fan.
No you don't have to be 'happy clappers' but Christ in the scheme of things it isn't so important that you need to let that negativity take over every fibre of your beings and spread it like an sti.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ? I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
I feel the same with Beale he could being though our young players effectively and with all that talent there is a unique opportunity at charlton. however, to take advantage of that will need sandgaard to allow beale the time and be patient.. not just TS but us fans too.
Singing you don't know what your doing after a dozen games next season as we have 67% possession in so many matches but win 3, lose 3 and draw 6 won't help.
Just checking for a friend but would we rather just miss out playing the MK Dons way, or get promoted playing similar to Rotherham ( Michael Smith and Stockley are similar) who were promoted and Wycombe who have a 50/50 chance of being promoted ?
IF/When Fraser gets fit the best way to get out of League 1 is to dovetail the two styles of ball retention but also sharp quick attacks with quality balls into the box from advanced positions so either Stockley/Aneke two of the best header of the ball can run on to. On the desk as well for our new attacking midfielder or new replacement for Washington to run on to.
Mix and match with relationships all over the field.
Tough gig at Cafc, Pompey, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, now Derby. All those teams have fans who believe their teams are "massive", Charlton Athletic fans as well as Wednesday and the rest of the above.
Rotherham are certainly much more direct than MK Dons, but they weren’t what I would consider a long ball team by any stretch of the imagination.
All the balls that went into Smith in the two games I saw against them were played with quality, pace and usually into a channel he was moving into where he could control and bring other players into the game.
And usually that out ball was only played if they couldn’t move it though the thirds quickly on a turn over of play.
Long ball to me is usually when teams smash the ball high into the air for the striker to try and head it onto runners.
Quality long passes normally diagonal from Naby Sarr(yes, really on occasions) and demonstrated by the magic in his boots Trent Alexander-Arnold are nothing to do will pointless long straight hoof balls that go flying over a 6ft 4in strikers head.
That why I said crossing from an advanced positions not aimless long passes from the back by the likes of Famewo, Pearce etc in recent times.
It would be great to emulate the ball retention and scoring ability of Gus Poyet's Brighton team back in the 3rd tier when we couldn't get a kick or the attacking prowess of Eddie Howe's Bournemouth side when he played attacking football from League 2 right the way through to the Premier and the way he used Yann with passes to his feet was a master class in pass and move with the lighting quick Wilson as the main striker ahead of Yann to win the Championship.
At least 50% of Charlton fans wouldn't accept the transition and a possible 8th or 9th finish next season as yet another season in League 1 accrues.
Singing your not fit to wear the shirt is hindering bonding with the better player like Dobson, Clare and CBT.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ? I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
He's not been there long enough to get that kind of pomp and ceremony.
Its not like he is a Jacko/Euell type figure who has been at the club for years in various roles and carries an affinity with the fanbase.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ? I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
He's not been there long enough to get that kind of pomp and ceremony.
Its not like he is a Jacko/Euell type figure who has been at the club for years in various roles and carries an affinity with the fanbase.
More with the players and staff, though I agree he hasn't been there long. Rangers would give him a bigger reception as I don't think they tore up his template even if Joe Aribo ended up further forward than he did under Stevie G after injuries to the two main strikers at Ibrox.
Highly paid individuals that in the main are not very good at their profession, some/ most can’t kick properly with both foot, run fast or head a ball properly.
Yet, we pay a fortune for the privilege to watch our beloved team.
Some of us get upset when a player or manager leaves, and then stress to the endth degree about who their replacements going to be, and whether they’ll be up to the job.
Think rationally for a minute, do you think that people who buy their paper clips from WH Smith care that the head honcho has upped sticks and gone to work for another stationary company for a few quid more, of course they don’t.
Nothings going to happen for a few weeks, relax , don’t get stressed even if nothings is announced on Monday, do something else instead.
Anyhow I’ve gone off on one (as per usual) this adds absolutely nothing to the debate, and I’m off to WH Smith Life.
Taylor like Jackson and Bowyer will chose the players or positions .. SG and his team does the rest … if you don’t believe that then listen to Curbs who said “ Jackson had two jobs recruitment and the team at Wimbledon he may be asked to do a lot more “
I feel the same with Beale he could being though our young players effectively and with all that talent there is a unique opportunity at charlton. however, to take advantage of that will need sandgaard to allow beale the time and be patient.. not just TS but us fans too.
Singing you don't know what your doing after a dozen games next season as we have 67% possession in so many matches but win 3, lose 3 and draw 6 won't help.
Just checking for a friend but would we rather just miss out playing the MK Dons way, or get promoted playing similar to Rotherham ( Michael Smith and Stockley are similar) who were promoted and Wycombe who have a 50/50 chance of being promoted ?
IF/When Fraser gets fit the best way to get out of League 1 is to dovetail the two styles of ball retention but also sharp quick attacks with quality balls into the box from advanced positions so either Stockley/Aneke two of the best header of the ball can run on to. On the desk as well for our new attacking midfielder or new replacement for Washington to run on to.
Mix and match with relationships all over the field.
Tough gig at Cafc, Pompey, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, now Derby. All those teams have fans who believe their teams are "massive", Charlton Athletic fans as well as Wednesday and the rest of the above.
Rotherham are certainly much more direct than MK Dons, but they weren’t what I would consider a long ball team by any stretch of the imagination.
All the balls that went into Smith in the two games I saw against them were played with quality, pace and usually into a channel he was moving into where he could control and bring other players into the game.
And usually that out ball was only played if they couldn’t move it though the thirds quickly on a turn over of play.
Long ball to me is usually when teams smash the ball high into the air for the striker to try and head it onto runners.
Quality long passes normally diagonal from Naby Sarr(yes, really on occasions) and demonstrated by the magic in his boots Trent Alexander-Arnold are nothing to do will pointless long straight hoof balls that go flying over a 6ft 4in strikers head.
That why I said crossing from an advanced positions not aimless long passes from the back by the likes of Famewo, Pearce etc in recent times.
It would be great to emulate the ball retention and scoring ability of Gus Poyet's Brighton team back in the 3rd tier when we couldn't get a kick or the attacking prowess of Eddie Howe's Bournemouth side when he played attacking football from League 2 right the way through to the Premier and the way he used Yann with passes to his feet was a master class in pass and move with the lighting quick Wilson as the main striker ahead of Yann to win the Championship.
At least 50% of Charlton fans wouldn't accept the transition and a possible 8th or 9th finish next season as yet another season in League 1 accrues.
Singing your not fit to wear the shirt is hindering bonding with the better player like Dobson, Clare and CBT.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
AND reading from the same book !
Yes indeed. Curbs may have been out of the daily grind of every day football for a long time but he made some interesting points about JJ. In the modern game Curbs would've been sacked when Super Clive and Pringle were injured and from memory Charlton lost 8 in a row and nearly 9.
It is still raw but I'm pleased that JJ didn't go back to being an assistant and has a chance to have a big input with his incoming players even if it's within a smaller budget of League 2 Wimbledon.
It's really annoying when posters on here keep refering to Charlton fan's as being entitled. Wanting and expecting better than shite football in league one is not being entitled. Accepting where we are is far worse in my opinion.
100%. As a club were punching well below our weight. I want to get back to at least punching level. For me that’s mid / top half championship. I don’t think that’s entitled at all.
The two things we have going for us is a Premier League stadium and decent gates. In terms of backroom quality and financial firepower, I’m not sure where we stand if I’m honest.
A few years back I worked out that our average league position (based on end of season league table positions) was top half of the Championship, which ties in with what you said. So historically, I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure it means we *should* be in that position, as what we’ve done in the past isn’t as important as how the club is run and managed right now.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
I think he would have done.
Not impossible but it was a poor squad and he didn’t impress at Huddersfield or Southend.
I still think Beale is a fantastic coach, but his as untried and tested as Jacko was.
Any experienced manager dropping down is doing it for a reason, if they’re that good why aren’t they managing at a higher level?
A young manager stepping up is just as big a gamble, maybe like Powell and Bowyer they’re at the right club at the right time and won’t be able to recreate the success they’ve had.
We could get a proven solid League 1 manager like Robinson but I’d rather gamble on Beale being a lot better.
I don't buy this good managers become bad bit at all. You have to look at the whole thing in the round. Why are managers successful in one job then fail in two. Probably because all things aren't equal.
There are 44 teams in the two divisions above us. Without looking I would guess that half, at least, have changed managers in the last 18 months. Did they all become bad managers? Admittedly some of them probably were never very good and just poor appointments but I suspect if you look at it most of them would have a lot of other considerations as well.
Such as the board sold their star striker in January, they had a relatively small budget, the CE was to busy getting an official noddle partner in North Korea to buy the striker they needed etc etc.
Managers like players can also improve or decline, so I don’t agree that good managers are always good managers and success is mainly down to the circumstances.
As balham said the issue is working out who are the genuinely good managers and who has only done well due to having circumstances in their favour.
I just don’t see bringing in someone who’s had a couple of promotions from this division as any more of a guarantee than taking a chance on say Taylor or Beale. Logically getting the experienced manager makes success more likely (hence TS appointing Adkins) but we know there are plenty of examples where it doesn’t work that way in reality.
But with some exceptions most managers fall into the decent bracket, don't they?
There are some who are exceptionally good or exceptionally bad but generally speaking. If you go through our managers since Curbishley, they have all ultimately failed. If you exclude the 2 who were totally unsuitable for the job and haven't had a similar job before or since, most of them have done about as well as you would expect, when you consider the circumstances haven't they?
The clear exception, in my opinion was Pardew in the championship.
If Powell came back now would you expect him to get 100+ points next season? I wouldn't. Is he a worse manager now.......
Most do yes which is why I’d rather gamble on Beale or similar than go for another Robinson or Adkins.
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
How many managers ever over achieve for more than a very short period of time though?
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
I’d rather we over achieved for a year or two than not achieve at all.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
No the original point was basically past performance, or lack of, doesn't really paint any sort of picture at all, without context.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
I reckon the reason for the delay is because the manager is still in post & their season hasn't finished.
So I'm going for Beale.
I dont think or understand why if anyone like Beale has accepted the job it would necessitate being kept quiet. I think both clubs would probably announce it saying he's joining us at end of season.
It's not a controversial appointment that will destabilise either club as if it were guardiola or klopp moving on somewhere with lots to play for.
I'd say outside of villa, rangers and charlton Beale isn't really big news in the football world and whilst I'll be delighted if he joins us and villa will lose an apparently excellent coach I can't see why it would be hushed up until villa complete their dead rubber this weekend.
Im going for Tuesday announcement ! Villa's last game Sunday. Travel to the Valley Monday for contract signing and press photo's. Announced Tuesday. (we can only hope )
Cue total melt down if it doesn't happen by Wednesday now.
Have I missed something but following this thread the only thing I've seen linking us with Beale is Gerrard being asked his thoughts on it and a few people posting what their Villa mates have said?
Comments
Agree on the points about our managers since Curbs. Who was the totally unsuitable one other than Fraeye? I’ve probably forgotten someone really obvious.
Powell is an example of your first point, he’ll do well if it all comes together but he’s not good enough to overachieve when the situation makes things a lot more difficult - I doubt he’d have kept that 15/16 squad in the Championship for example, very few managers would have done.
Every clubs success comes when everything comes together doesn't it?
Les Reed is the other one BTW.
Reposted and edited as "entitled" seemed to upset and I believe I made some salient points. Just my opinion but the new guy must be a strong character who can/ has sold his football template to the Sandgaard's. Everyone has to be on the same page.
Andy G, as Beale is the assistant coach at Villa but the guy according to Stevie G that is a master tactician, wouldn't Villa announced it so he can have a good send off or is Big Ronnie Dangerfield still crossing the T's and dotting the i on the contract and Tuesday will be the day as you say ?
I don't believe Beale would've applied again so olive branch from Thomas Sandgaard if it happens.
Its not like he is a Jacko/Euell type figure who has been at the club for years in various roles and carries an affinity with the fanbase.
More with the players and staff, though I agree he hasn't been there long. Rangers would give him a bigger reception as I don't think they tore up his template even if Joe Aribo ended up further forward than he did under Stevie G after injuries to the two main strikers at Ibrox.
Highly paid individuals that in the main are not very good at their profession, some/ most can’t kick properly with both foot, run fast or head a ball properly.
Yet, we pay a fortune for the privilege to watch our beloved team.
Think rationally for a minute, do you think that people who buy their paper clips from WH Smith care that the head honcho has upped sticks and gone to work for another stationary company for a few quid more, of course they don’t.
Nothings going to happen for a few weeks, relax , don’t get stressed even if nothings is announced on Monday, do something else instead.
Anyhow I’ve gone off on one (as per usual) this adds absolutely nothing to the debate, and I’m off to WH Smith Life.
chose the players or positions .. SG and his team does the rest … if you don’t believe that then listen to Curbs who said “ Jackson had two jobs recruitment and the team at Wimbledon he may be asked to do a lot more “
Yes indeed.
Curbs may have been out of the daily grind of every day football for a long time but he made some interesting points about JJ.
In the modern game Curbs would've been sacked when Super Clive and Pringle were injured and from memory Charlton lost 8 in a row and nearly 9.
It is still raw but I'm pleased that JJ didn't go back to being an assistant and has a chance to have a big input with his incoming players even if it's within a smaller budget of League 2 Wimbledon.
Not sure what you’re saying, is it that we should go for an experienced manager rather than Beale? That was the point originally made in the first comment in this set of quotes.
Of course, wasn’t thinking as far back as Reed.
As an example you can't compare Adkins's success at Southampton with his failed here and draw the conclusion he is "yesterday's man". Different players, different owners, different opponents, different staff.
You originally said that a manager who had been at a higher level would only come here because they couldn't get a job at a higher level because they aren't good enough any more, or words to that effect.
Dyche probably will end up getting a big championship job but is that because he isnt good enough, any more, to be a Premier League one?
I dont think or understand why if anyone like Beale has accepted the job it would necessitate being kept quiet. I think both clubs would probably announce it saying he's joining us at end of season.
It's not a controversial appointment that will destabilise either club as if it were guardiola or klopp moving on somewhere with lots to play for.
I'd say outside of villa, rangers and charlton Beale isn't really big news in the football world and whilst I'll be delighted if he joins us and villa will lose an apparently excellent coach I can't see why it would be hushed up until villa complete their dead rubber this weekend.