Genuine question as I'm not too clued up on FFP etc - by all accounts people like Wednesday, Ipswich etc are spending more, we've made.money on Burstow, Pope,.we've signed free transfers so far etc... how are we close to being in breach of them?
Their income will still be higher than ours I would guess. Not sure we can use Burstow money as it counts to last year and as people have said we might only get the Pope money in instalments. The rule is we can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages, I am also a bit surprised we are already at that limit as we’ve had bigger squads at L1 level previously and these have always been the rules apart from the year they brought in the salary cap
Makes absolutely no sense. How can we get rid of high earners like Watson, Gunter, Washington etc and replace them with half the Swindon team and be at the salary cap?
How did Wigan do it last season, wasn't Wyke on a reported 10k a week? Their income must be fairly low as well as they have a tiny fanbase. What about Ipswich signing a ton of players? How are Derby signing a squad of ageing championship players who you'd assume are all on decent money?
You get a parachute payment after relegation from the championship for at least 1 year so that might play a part. We’ve been here a while so won’t be getting them anymore. Ipswich have bigger crowds than we do and it’s not about transfer fees it’s to do with the wages they are paying. Derby again will have parachute payments and bigger crowds than us.
Watson, Gunter, Washington were all signed the season we had to operate under a salary cap so I doubt they were earning that much
Again, I’m surprised we are at the limit so hopefully it’s just a negotiation tactic but I’m just thinking of possible reasons why we might be
I thought the cap was lifted last season but I could be wrong.
Genuine question as I'm not too clued up on FFP etc - by all accounts people like Wednesday, Ipswich etc are spending more, we've made.money on Burstow, Pope,.we've signed free transfers so far etc... how are we close to being in breach of them?
Their income will still be higher than ours I would guess. Not sure we can use Burstow money as it counts to last year and as people have said we might only get the Pope money in instalments. The rule is we can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages, I am also a bit surprised we are already at that limit as we’ve had bigger squads at L1 level previously and these have always been the rules apart from the year they brought in the salary cap
Makes absolutely no sense. How can we get rid of high earners like Watson, Gunter, Washington etc and replace them with half the Swindon team and be at the salary cap?
How did Wigan do it last season, wasn't Wyke on a reported 10k a week? Their income must be fairly low as well as they have a tiny fanbase. What about Ipswich signing a ton of players? How are Derby signing a squad of ageing championship players who you'd assume are all on decent money?
You get a parachute payment after relegation from the championship for at least 1 year so that might play a part. We’ve been here a while so won’t be getting them anymore. Ipswich have bigger crowds than we do and it’s not about transfer fees it’s to do with the wages they are paying. Derby again will have parachute payments and bigger crowds than us.
Watson, Gunter, Washington were all signed the season we had to operate under a salary cap so I doubt they were earning that much
Again, I’m surprised we are at the limit so hopefully it’s just a negotiation tactic but I’m just thinking of possible reasons why we might be
I thought the cap was lifted last season but I could be wrong.
The salary cap was removed, however FFP and SCMP still exist and can lead to financial and point penalties if broken.
Having SCMP in place makes total sense to keep clubs within their means (as much as possible). Having it related to only wages also makes sense as these are what can drag a club under after an owner leaves. It does allow for owners to gift money (must not be a loan) so is not prohibitive if an owner wants to pump money in but it cannot be loaded up as debt against the club.
So it looks like maybe two players need to leave to allow fresh recruits to come in. A lot of people on here are very critical of Morgan and Gilbey, but I think I have another candidate at least equally deserving of being shown the exit door - Jaiyesimi. Never seems to have any impact, as witnessed by a pathetic three goals in 47 appearances. Is there anyone on here who rates him?
Hi!
Let's see how he does under Garner. He's been threatening and used the ball well in pre-season, albeit against Colchester and Welling. He's skilful, tenacious and strong, with an eye for a pass. People automatically assuming Kirk starts ahead of him are starting to annoy me a bit - DJ has at least been good quite a few times for us in the league
Having SCMP in place makes total sense to keep clubs within their means (as much as possible). Having it related to only wages also makes sense as these are what can drag a club under after an owner leaves. It does allow for owners to gift money (must not be a loan) so is not prohibitive if an owner wants to pump money in but it cannot be loaded up as debt against the club.
That makes more sense as to why teams like Wigan/Ipswich have spent big in the past then. If TS seriously wants us challenging for promotion then he needs to do the same. Can’t see anything better than mid-table at the moment unless we pull off Cullen/Bielik/Gallagher level loan signings which as we’ve seen the last couple of years is not easy to do
I'm scratching my head a little bit as to how we are seemingly at the salary cap limit?
it's impossible to say how close we are without seeing all the figures but we were, at the last telling, about 25% down on season ticket sales.
We don't know how the commercial income is looking but we've not been selling much in the shop (we got a lump sum from Hummel and then a small percentage on each sale so assume it is similar with Castore).
We have sold players but as explained some of that comes in instalments, not all up front. And some of that will have come in the accounts for the last financial year ending 30 June 2022 so would have balanced last years books.
We've moved on a lot of older players who may well have been on higher wages but we don't know how much we paid the new lot in comparison. We also signed a lot of younger players. Mostly cheaper I'd guess but still money.
And we can only spend 60% of income on players so if (big if) we got £2m for Pope upfront only £1.2m can be spent on players (yes, all the income goes in the same pot, it was just an example)
From the links posted above it seems clubs in league 1 and 2 (but not the premier league) can boost income via equity. Not sure if there is an upper limit but if theory TS could, if I read that correctly, fill any gaps by buying £1m, £5m or £50m of shares in CAFC.
Lots of good reasons he may not want to do that. A loan to the club is better business for him, he may not want to commit more money or it could be, as a few claim, he's skint ( I don't think he is BTW).
And every public statement by a manager and owner during a transfer window has multiple audiences.
One audience is us, the fans.
Another key audience is the players, agents and other clubs we are telling that "no, we're not going to pay the stupid amount of money you are asking, bring the wages/fees down and then we'll be able to do a deal."
Genuine question as I'm not too clued up on FFP etc - by all accounts people like Wednesday, Ipswich etc are spending more, we've made.money on Burstow, Pope,.we've signed free transfers so far etc... how are we close to being in breach of them?
Their income will still be higher than ours I would guess. Not sure we can use Burstow money as it counts to last year and as people have said we might only get the Pope money in instalments. The rule is we can spend 60% of our turnover on player wages, I am also a bit surprised we are already at that limit as we’ve had bigger squads at L1 level previously and these have always been the rules apart from the year they brought in the salary cap
Makes absolutely no sense. How can we get rid of high earners like Watson, Gunter, Washington etc and replace them with half the Swindon team and be at the salary cap?
How did Wigan do it last season, wasn't Wyke on a reported 10k a week? Their income must be fairly low as well as they have a tiny fanbase. What about Ipswich signing a ton of players? How are Derby signing a squad of ageing championship players who you'd assume are all on decent money?
You get a parachute payment after relegation from the championship for at least 1 year so that might play a part. We’ve been here a while so won’t be getting them anymore. Ipswich have bigger crowds than we do and it’s not about transfer fees it’s to do with the wages they are paying. Derby again will have parachute payments and bigger crowds than us.
Watson, Gunter, Washington were all signed the season we had to operate under a salary cap so I doubt they were earning that much
Again, I’m surprised we are at the limit so hopefully it’s just a negotiation tactic but I’m just thinking of possible reasons why we might be
Well you learn something new every day. Obviously the premier league ones are well documented but i genuinely didn't know that parachute payments from the championship to league one were even a thing.
As has been said Stockley needs centres to his head from the wing. Both CBT and Kirk can get down the wing but so far neither has supplied the right crosses which means we need a left footed speedy LB, that is not SS.
Kirk is not speedy, nor does he get down the left wing and I agree he can’t cross a ball. SS rarely gets given the ball when he over laps Kirk cuts in with the ball.
CBT at least has the pace and I think SS has a better crossing ability than maybe thought.
I'm scratching my head a little bit as to how we are seemingly at the salary cap limit?
it's impossible to say how close we are without seeing all the figures but we were, at the last telling, about 25% down on season ticket sales.
We don't know how the commercial income is looking but we've not been selling much in the shop (we got a lump sum from Hummel and then a small percentage on each sale so assume it is similar with Castore).
We have sold players but as explained some of that comes in instalments, not all up front. And some of that will have come in the accounts for the last financial year ending 30 June 2022 so would have balanced last years books.
We've moved on a lot of older players who may well have been on higher wages but we don't know how much we paid the new lot in comparison. We also signed a lot of younger players. Mostly cheaper I'd guess but still money.
And we can only spend 60% of income on players so if (big if) we got £2m for Pope upfront only £1.2m can be spent on players (yes, all the income goes in the same pot, it was just an example)
From the links posted above it seems clubs in league 1 and 2 (but not the premier league) can boost income via equity. Not sure if there is an upper limit but if theory TS could, if I read that correctly, fill any gaps by buying £1m, £5m or £50m of shares in CAFC.
Lots of good reasons he may not want to do that. A loan to the club is better business for him, he may not want to commit more money or it could be, as a few claim, he's skint ( I don't think he is BTW).
And every public statement by a manager and owner during a transfer window has multiple audiences.
One audience is us, the fans.
Another key audience is the players, agents and other clubs we are telling that "no, we're not going to pay the stupid amount of money you are asking, bring the wages/fees down and then we'll be able to do a deal."
Going to bang my drum again here and say don't forget the compensation payments made this summer for Jacko, Garner & Marshall, although I'm not sure if they have any relevance to this calculation.
I find it quite concerning when an interview focuses on a player being good in the dressing room and is buying into the system, especially our main striker, he looks a fish out of water to me, and learning on the job isn’t what is required. Hopefully they were trying to take the focus away from talking targets and not looking desperate for players. My optimism level has not gone up from this interview I’m afraid.😬
So it looks like maybe two players need to leave to allow fresh recruits to come in. A lot of people on here are very critical of Morgan and Gilbey, but I think I have another candidate at least equally deserving of being shown the exit door - Jaiyesimi. Never seems to have any impact, as witnessed by a pathetic three goals in 47 appearances. Is there anyone on here who rates him?
At a very basic level we're short a winger, so letting DJ go to bring another in wouldn't really solve our depth problem even if it was a trade up. The only area where we're a little over-stocked is central midfield so one from there will need to go if we want to rebalance the squad.
Can’t believe Garner is so thick to go into the season with just 2 experienced strikers, particularly with one almost permanently injured.
Its another season where it looks like we start with a massive weakness in an unbalanced squad, even before more injuries/ suspensions kick in.
Have you read the article that Cawley put out? - I'm sure he'd love to sign a Striker before Saturday
Why let Davidson go if we hadn’t replaced him, madness.
I feel pretty sure we will though, although it may take until the end of August.
Last season at Swindon in his system, Garner had Davidson as central striker and the very mobile Harry McKirdy playing as winger-cum-2nd striker. So far the squad lacks that type of player - and surely Garner will be looking to get that piece of the jigsaw?
Whether that's McKirdy himself, or a similar style player, I don't know - but needed all the same, whether permanent or young Prem loan. But the timing may have to take SMCP /FFP protocols into account.
No, they have views based on what they see which are often proved right. What you hear from the club and indeed the manager is not always the full picture and you are allowed to assess things from a distance. Especially on a forum.
I'm scratching my head a little bit as to how we are seemingly at the salary cap limit?
it's impossible to say how close we are without seeing all the figures but we were, at the last telling, about 25% down on season ticket sales.
We don't know how the commercial income is looking but we've not been selling much in the shop (we got a lump sum from Hummel and then a small percentage on each sale so assume it is similar with Castore).
We have sold players but as explained some of that comes in instalments, not all up front. And some of that will have come in the accounts for the last financial year ending 30 June 2022 so would have balanced last years books.
We've moved on a lot of older players who may well have been on higher wages but we don't know how much we paid the new lot in comparison. We also signed a lot of younger players. Mostly cheaper I'd guess but still money.
And we can only spend 60% of income on players so if (big if) we got £2m for Pope upfront only £1.2m can be spent on players (yes, all the income goes in the same pot, it was just an example)
From the links posted above it seems clubs in league 1 and 2 (but not the premier league) can boost income via equity. Not sure if there is an upper limit but if theory TS could, if I read that correctly, fill any gaps by buying £1m, £5m or £50m of shares in CAFC.
Lots of good reasons he may not want to do that. A loan to the club is better business for him, he may not want to commit more money or it could be, as a few claim, he's skint ( I don't think he is BTW).
And every public statement by a manager and owner during a transfer window has multiple audiences.
One audience is us, the fans.
Another key audience is the players, agents and other clubs we are telling that "no, we're not going to pay the stupid amount of money you are asking, bring the wages/fees down and then we'll be able to do a deal."
Going to bang my drum again here and say don't forget the compensation payments made this summer for Jacko, Garner & Marshall, although I'm not sure if they have any relevance to this calculation.
Would there be any for Jackson? My understanding was he didn't hit the target that enabled his extension, so he was let go. I'd assumed the timing was because there was no compensation at that point.
I'm scratching my head a little bit as to how we are seemingly at the salary cap limit?
it's impossible to say how close we are without seeing all the figures but we were, at the last telling, about 25% down on season ticket sales.
We don't know how the commercial income is looking but we've not been selling much in the shop (we got a lump sum from Hummel and then a small percentage on each sale so assume it is similar with Castore).
We have sold players but as explained some of that comes in instalments, not all up front. And some of that will have come in the accounts for the last financial year ending 30 June 2022 so would have balanced last years books.
We've moved on a lot of older players who may well have been on higher wages but we don't know how much we paid the new lot in comparison. We also signed a lot of younger players. Mostly cheaper I'd guess but still money.
And we can only spend 60% of income on players so if (big if) we got £2m for Pope upfront only £1.2m can be spent on players (yes, all the income goes in the same pot, it was just an example)
From the links posted above it seems clubs in league 1 and 2 (but not the premier league) can boost income via equity. Not sure if there is an upper limit but if theory TS could, if I read that correctly, fill any gaps by buying £1m, £5m or £50m of shares in CAFC.
Lots of good reasons he may not want to do that. A loan to the club is better business for him, he may not want to commit more money or it could be, as a few claim, he's skint ( I don't think he is BTW).
And every public statement by a manager and owner during a transfer window has multiple audiences.
One audience is us, the fans.
Another key audience is the players, agents and other clubs we are telling that "no, we're not going to pay the stupid amount of money you are asking, bring the wages/fees down and then we'll be able to do a deal."
Going to bang my drum again here and say don't forget the compensation payments made this summer for Jacko, Garner & Marshall, although I'm not sure if they have any relevance to this calculation.
Would there be any for Jackson? My understanding was he didn't hit the target that enabled his extension, so he was let go. I'd assumed the timing was because there was no compensation at that point.
He had an 18 month contract, so yes, but the value reduced as we weren't top 8. At least, I think that's the case.
Chucks is an absolute shambles for our club the decision to bring him home was a shocker. How we are going into the season relying on this injury prone player says we are not going anywhere fast
So it looks like maybe two players need to leave to allow fresh recruits to come in. A lot of people on here are very critical of Morgan and Gilbey, but I think I have another candidate at least equally deserving of being shown the exit door - Jaiyesimi. Never seems to have any impact, as witnessed by a pathetic three goals in 47 appearances. Is there anyone on here who rates him?
Hi!
Let's see how he does under Garner. He's been threatening and used the ball well in pre-season, albeit against Colchester and Welling. He's skilful, tenacious and strong, with an eye for a pass. People automatically assuming Kirk starts ahead of him are starting to annoy me a bit - DJ has at least been good quite a few times for us in the league
A few times in 50 odd games sure. He's still young and worth keeping especially given we only have 3 wide players and will be playing with 2 wide players but even in pre-season Kirk has performed better than him in my opinion.
Chucks is an absolute shambles for our club the decision to bring him home was a shocker. How we are going into the season relying on this injury prone player says we are not going anywhere fast
Chuks will be ideal for 30 minute cameos, especially with 5 subs now being allowed. The thing that a lot of us seem to feel is that we need at least one other striker who can play a whole game. FWIW I think we’ll sign a striker and an attacking forward/winger but we’ll have to make a couple of tough calls to balance the books. Ultimately I think we have to back Garner.
Chucks is an absolute shambles for our club the decision to bring him home was a shocker. How we are going into the season relying on this injury prone player says we are not going anywhere fast
It’s only a shambles if we don’t sign another striker. Aneke is very useful at this level. His last season in league 1 he scored 15 goals for us. Like we saw last season if you rely on him to start every game then he will break down, but the season before we managed his minutes so if we do that again he’ll easily be worth it
Another reason not to spend the Pope money on player wages is that this is not recurring income. If we spend the £1.2m (if it even is that this season) on wages this year, we'll still have to pay them next year with no guarantee of having the turnover to meet it, which would mean a firesale or breach of the regulations next year.
I do find our abundance of CMs a bit of a head scratcher but still trust we'll bring in some loans to supplement the attack and hopefully the full back positions.
Not a rumour but i wonder if Nathanael Ogbeta (Swansea left back) would be someone of interest to us, not in Swansea's plans so maybe a loan or a small fee would get him.
Comments
The salary cap was removed, however FFP and SCMP still exist and can lead to financial and point penalties if broken.
Let's see how he does under Garner. He's been threatening and used the ball well in pre-season, albeit against Colchester and Welling. He's skilful, tenacious and strong, with an eye for a pass. People automatically assuming Kirk starts ahead of him are starting to annoy me a bit - DJ has at least been good quite a few times for us in the league
JFC
Gilbey
DJ
Kirk
Craig McG
Any of the youngsters
We don't know how the commercial income is looking but we've not been selling much in the shop (we got a lump sum from Hummel and then a small percentage on each sale so assume it is similar with Castore).
We have sold players but as explained some of that comes in instalments, not all up front. And some of that will have come in the accounts for the last financial year ending 30 June 2022 so would have balanced last years books.
We've moved on a lot of older players who may well have been on higher wages but we don't know how much we paid the new lot in comparison. We also signed a lot of younger players. Mostly cheaper I'd guess but still money.
And we can only spend 60% of income on players so if (big if) we got £2m for Pope upfront only £1.2m can be spent on players (yes, all the income goes in the same pot, it was just an example)
From the links posted above it seems clubs in league 1 and 2 (but not the premier league) can boost income via equity. Not sure if there is an upper limit but if theory TS could, if I read that correctly, fill any gaps by buying £1m, £5m or £50m of shares in CAFC.
Lots of good reasons he may not want to do that. A loan to the club is better business for him, he may not want to commit more money or it could be, as a few claim, he's skint ( I don't think he is BTW).
And every public statement by a manager and owner during a transfer window has multiple audiences.
One audience is us, the fans.
Another key audience is the players, agents and other clubs we are telling that "no, we're not going to pay the stupid amount of money you are asking, bring the wages/fees down and then we'll be able to do a deal."
CBT at least has the pace and I think SS has a better crossing ability than maybe thought.
Last season at Swindon in his system, Garner had Davidson as central striker and the very mobile Harry McKirdy playing as winger-cum-2nd striker.
So far the squad lacks that type of player - and surely Garner will be looking to get that piece of the jigsaw?
Whether that's McKirdy himself, or a similar style player, I don't know - but needed all the same, whether permanent or young Prem loan.
But the timing may have to take SMCP /FFP protocols into account.
You only have to read this thread to know that!
A few times in 50 odd games sure. He's still young and worth keeping especially given we only have 3 wide players and will be playing with 2 wide players but even in pre-season Kirk has performed better than him in my opinion.
I do find our abundance of CMs a bit of a head scratcher but still trust we'll bring in some loans to supplement the attack and hopefully the full back positions.