I'd be interested to know whether he's just fed up being a reserve player for an average league one club or if he actually does really want to go back to Scotland.
I wonder how desperate to move north of the border he'd be if he'd done really well with us and a Championship club (say Norwich for example) had bought him and were paying him 15k a week.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
There’s such a thing as loyalty and it works both ways. We were happy to offer him the contract and we should be prepared to honour it. If something else can be sorted out that’s fine but I think your suggestion is frankly preposterous.
Take your point but still disagree.
He wants to go supposedly for family reasons so he can go back to Scotland with his family. Fair enough. We're doing him a favour to do this by allowing him to break his contract. Therefore there is no reason we should subsidise him over the next year.
You also talk about loyalty. What loyalty is he showing us by saying I don't want to stay for the last year of a contract that I freely entered into because I've decided I now want to move back to Scotland?
No wonder football finances are in such a mess when we allow a footballer to put his own preferences first and we subsidise them!
Where's he said that?
Why is it that when a circumstance changes with a player's performance for the negative, we demand he give his money back. But when it's for the positive, e.g. a youngster breaks through and does great, no one says the club should just voluntarily throw more money at him as part of the current deal?
Why didn't the club scout him better? Why did they offer him above market value? Why did they not realize they were signing a player who might want to be closer to home? Variations of this happened with DJ, Lavelle, Stockley, Kirk, and Aneke. At some point, the issue isn't the players themselves, it's the (now replaced) system that signed them.
The idea that subsidizing loans is what's broken about football finances is ridiculous.
If he wants to go back to Scotland so badly he takes a pay cut, fair enough. If not and he stays, he'll be expected to perform. But the way people treat him is so over the top at this point.
fairly sure he doesn’t want to be here but nobody else wants him so he’s sticking around for the money which he won’t get anywhere else
Swisdom, I really value you and your insights, and I make you right on the second part, but it was the first game of pre-season and he still had an assist!!!!!!!
Thst was the best opening friendly performance by a Charlton side for a number of years. Quick, slick passing and moving. And from what I could see he got dispossessed numerous time more than anyone else, and seemed to be operating at last season’s speed. Which wasn’t good enough then let alone now.
One of the more 'technically' gifted players in the squad....but I do question his commitment and desire....I think Jones will ship him out before the end of the transfer deadline unless he produces the pompey away performance week in week out....
He's in the same situation as he was when with Ipswich. Not good enough for the 1st team. Problem is, the footballing world does not seem to agree with his own assertion that he's one of the best in the league!
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He called himself one of the better players in the league. We need players to believe in themselves though so I don’t see it as an attitude problem if they put the effort in go with that.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
There’s such a thing as loyalty and it works both ways. We were happy to offer him the contract and we should be prepared to honour it. If something else can be sorted out that’s fine but I think your suggestion is frankly preposterous.
Take your point but still disagree.
He wants to go supposedly for family reasons so he can go back to Scotland with his family. Fair enough. We're doing him a favour to do this by allowing him to break his contract. Therefore there is no reason we should subsidise him over the next year.
You also talk about loyalty. What loyalty is he showing us by saying I don't want to stay for the last year of a contract that I freely entered into because I've decided I now want to move back to Scotland?
No wonder football finances are in such a mess when we allow a footballer to put his own preferences first and we subsidise them!
Do you mean if we can't get rid of him he stays down here in our youth team and we don't pay him?
Yup, if he is forced to stay down here we obviously have to pay his wages.
But lets say he's on £5k a week. That's £260,000 he will earn off us next year. If he goes back to Scotland, then from what I understand we will still be picking up about 80% of his wages, so £208,000. That means we save £52,000 by letting him go and subsidising his wages. A lot of money to me and you but I suspect not a massive amount to Charlton.
So from now until the end of the transfer window we should be playing hardball with him. If I was in charge of negotiations I'd say Scott, I fully understand you want to go home and be with your family. I respect that and we are not going to stand in your way and ask you to honour the last year of your contract if that is what you really want to do. But I'm afraid we are not prepared to subsidise you to do it. You can either sort yourself out a new contract back in Scotland or stay down here for another year during which time you won't play and will therefore make it more unlikely you will ever got a new offer from elsewhere. Entirely your choice.
And if he stays down here, financially we are not much worse off anyway.
As someone above says, it's then down to him - does he want the money or to be with his family. I wouldn't be surprised if a new 2 or 3 year contract offer from someone in Scotland won the day.
All very good in theory.
In practice that means an unhappy player around the place, not a positive influence on kids or first team, some of whom will be his mates.
Also other players might think "not a nice club this." Maybe a young player like Kanu or Small would think twice about extending their deals seeing how we treated Fraser.
All sides need to compromise, us, Fraser, his family, the club taking him on.
But bottom line is that there is a contract in place that has to honoured until the parties agree to change it, which I guess they will.
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He called himself one of the better players in the league. We need players to believe in themselves though so I don’t see it as an attitude problem if they put the effort in go with that.
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He called himself one of the better players in the league. We need players to believe in themselves though so I don’t see it as an attitude problem if they put the effort in go with that.
I’m sure May also talked about his improvement at Cheltenham partly coming from wanting to get on the pitch and be the best player out there.
In fairness to him, he did go on to score 9 goals during the 22/23 season after he said the above.
We’d be relatively happy with that return from Doc or Berry this season.
A good return on paper, but they had the luxury of Dobbo being an excellent defensive midfielder and probably playing too deep in L1. NJ realised this.
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He called himself one of the better players in the league. We need players to believe in themselves though so I don’t see it as an attitude problem if they put the effort in go with that.
I’m sure May also talked about his improvement at Cheltenham partly coming from wanting to get on the pitch and be the best player out there.
In fairness to him, he did go on to score 9 goals during the 22/23 season after he said the above.
We’d be relatively happy with that return from Doc or Berry this season.
Yeah although he’s never been the player we hoped, he still had a good season that year - but I think his weaknesses stop him from being a top player at this level.
Now I think he’s at the point his family and being back in Scotland is a higher priority (understandable, but not ideal for what we want to do this season) and he wouldn’t get back to that level with us.
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He called himself one of the better players in the league. We need players to believe in themselves though so I don’t see it as an attitude problem if they put the effort in go with that.
I’m sure May also talked about his improvement at Cheltenham partly coming from wanting to get on the pitch and be the best player out there.
In fairness to him, he did go on to score 9 goals during the 22/23 season after he said the above.
We’d be relatively happy with that return from Doc or Berry this season.
A good return on paper, but they had the luxury of Dobbo being an excellent defensive midfielder and probably playing too deep in L1. NJ realised this.
And the luxury of Leaburn, JRS and CBT/ TC making shed loads of space for him
He has never asserted he is one of the best in the league. Why do we always attach an attitude problem to a player just because they play poorly for us. Fraser’s problem is that for all the skill he has, he just not athletic enough which drags the state of play to a snails pace
He has. I'm certain there are also behind-the-scenes videos at the training ground where other players joke about how he considers himself better than the level. There's nothing wrong with self-confidence, and when he's on form he is one of the better players in the league.
It's interesting however, that any of us wouldn't really have Fraser down for his engine, but he seemed relatively unphased by the drill compared to the other players
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
If he’s not in the plans then Jones will have him loaned out even if it’s Charlton that foot 99% of the bill. No sense in having him around and a good loan until January could see him off the books permanently then. Not about punishing the player by no longer requiring his services. That’s just the life of a professional footballer. Pity that it’s worked out like this for both club and player. Hope he gets back to Scotland and resurrects his career.
He's always been a moments player, at best. He has had some good moments but they've always been too few and far between. The bigger issue is between those moments he can be (and often is) a passenger. We've needed him to be a player that can control games a bit more and he's never really been that for us. Less the Scottish Pirlo and more the League One Darren Ambrose.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
The point I'm making is he wants to go back, fine but he should do it by negotiating a new 2 or 3 year contract with a new club at the rate they want to pay him rather than expecting us to pick up the tab for a year for his contract here.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
Not sure why he went to Slovenia apart from reselling a fit player.
He has had more than half a year to sort a move, after being told he wasn't in our plans.
Seven weeks to TDD. Doubt any club will pay even 50% of his wages. Offer him a token sum to leave, or have him train on his own for a year. I assume his contract obliged him to do so at Sparrows Lane rather than in Scotland near his family.
Too many lazy players getting paid to freewheel (load).
I've not seen him play for us much......... and I know the wags out there will say none of us have but that aside, I do just wonder if with our new intensive training he'll get fitter and sharper........ enough to make a decent contribution to the squad if he does stick around?
Comments
I wonder how desperate to move north of the border he'd be if he'd done really well with us and a Championship club (say Norwich for example) had bought him and were paying him 15k a week.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/fraser-full-confidence-ahead-new-season
I’m sure May also talked about his improvement at Cheltenham partly coming from wanting to get on the pitch and be the best player out there.
In practice that means an unhappy player around the place, not a positive influence on kids or first team, some of whom will be his mates.
Also other players might think "not a nice club this." Maybe a young player like Kanu or Small would think twice about extending their deals seeing how we treated Fraser.
All sides need to compromise, us, Fraser, his family, the club taking him on.
But bottom line is that there is a contract in place that has to honoured until the parties agree to change it, which I guess they will.
We’d be relatively happy with that return from Doc or Berry this season.
Now I think he’s at the point his family and being back in Scotland is a higher priority (understandable, but not ideal for what we want to do this season) and he wouldn’t get back to that level with us.
It's all relative.
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/1810652531116183687?t=sxzvcniQGRnObYAlMRxfWw&s=19
I see the club are already going down the 'like a new signing route' or, trying to put him in the shop window 😉
I'd like to see him moved on personally
, as he's had more than a fair chance here.
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/1810655456810959066?t=oAhgoq1xVv5_OgY1UOCLbg&s=19
It's interesting however, that any of us wouldn't really have Fraser down for his engine, but he seemed relatively unphased by the drill compared to the other players
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
He has had more than half a year to sort a move, after being told he wasn't in our plans.
Seven weeks to TDD. Doubt any club will pay even 50% of his wages. Offer him a token sum to leave, or have him train on his own for a year. I assume his contract obliged him to do so at Sparrows Lane rather than in Scotland near his family.
Too many lazy players getting paid to freewheel (load).