Wasn’t Boris Johnson interested in sloping off and using public money to pay for the sexual services of Jennifer Arcuri? I don’t think that behaviour led to cleaner air for the population.
Quite a few accidents round round my way now, a moped rider got knocked off this morning and an ambulance came.
I'm against cutting down ULEZ cameras as you aren't going to beat the resources of a government.
As for cutting down traffic lights, they deserve GBH charges for anyone hurt in crashes as a consequence.
Absolute arseholes.
Have they not been able to install temporary lights to alleviate the situation?
No, in most cases they've put in new lights but they aren't switched on for some reason, so basically it's a load of 4 way crossings without any lights.
Must be 3 sets within walking distance of me right now, and a load more in the surrounding area.
Quite a few accidents round round my way now, a moped rider got knocked off this morning and an ambulance came.
I'm against cutting down ULEZ cameras as you aren't going to beat the resources of a government.
As for cutting down traffic lights, they deserve GBH charges for anyone hurt in crashes as a consequence.
Absolute arseholes.
Have they not been able to install temporary lights to alleviate the situation?
No, in most cases they've put in new lights but they aren't switched on for some reason, so basically it's a load of 4 way crossings without any lights.
Must be 3 sets within walking distance of me right now, and a load more in the surrounding area.
Quite a few accidents round round my way now, a moped rider got knocked off this morning and an ambulance came.
I'm against cutting down ULEZ cameras as you aren't going to beat the resources of a government.
As for cutting down traffic lights, they deserve GBH charges for anyone hurt in crashes as a consequence.
Absolute arseholes.
Have they not been able to install temporary lights to alleviate the situation?
No, in most cases they've put in new lights but they aren't switched on for some reason, so basically it's a load of 4 way crossings without any lights.
Must be 3 sets within walking distance of me right now, and a load more in the surrounding area.
That is a bit odd don’t you think?
Why not turned on?
No idea, maybe they think there's no point until they catch them as they'll just come and do it again? Not sure to be honest.
Just seen a news item about pavement parking. There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land. Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do. If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians. I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
Just seen a news item about pavement parking. There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land. Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do. If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians. I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
LOL!
Pavement parking has been illegal in London since 1974! Local authorities can make exemptions and often do - you'll will see areas around Charlton where the exemptions apply. And many local authorities do already penalise motorists who park on the pavement where they are not allowed to do so.
All that said, If it wasn't already illegal, Khan would no doubt introduce a ban so he could collect the fines. Got to pay for the £30 million he found down the back of another sofa to buy the tube drivers off from striking!
Just seen a news item about pavement parking. There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land. Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do. If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians. I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
If Greenwich council wardens issued tickets for all the illegal parking in the borough it might keep the council tax increase down
Just seen a news item about pavement parking. There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land. Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do. If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians. I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
If Greenwich council wardens issued tickets for all the illegal parking in the borough it might keep the council tax increase down
Last year Greenwich made a "profit" of about £7.4 million on their parking activities ie money raised in fines and charges less their costs.
Not bad work. And sure to go up with all the new parking restrictions around the ground!
Local authorities are skint, the money raised from parking barely touches the side of say adult social care, or funding SEND for kids at school, or any service to be honest. Don't park badly, simple, you won't get a ticket them
Local authorities are skint, the money raised from parking barely touches the side of say adult social care, or funding SEND for kids at school, or any service to be honest. Don't park badly, simple, you won't get a ticket them
Agree with the sentiment - its an easily avoided fee (ULEZ less so).
We are of course digressing from ULEZ here but I do think local authorities sometimes are not helping the local high street with relatively expensive short term parking that doesn't attract people to use the smaller / independent shops. That seems a balance not considered.
Local authorities are skint, the money raised from parking barely touches the side of say adult social care, or funding SEND for kids at school, or any service to be honest. Don't park badly, simple, you won't get a ticket them
Agree with the sentiment - its an easily avoided fee (ULEZ less so).
We are of course digressing from ULEZ here but I do think local authorities sometimes are not helping the local high street with relatively expensive short term parking that doesn't attract people to use the smaller / independent shops. That seems a balance not considered.
Very much agree. I think many people refuse to go to the high street because they know they will have to pay to park, as opposed to going to an out-of-town shopping centre with free parking and probably a better selection of shops.
Local authorities are skint, the money raised from parking barely touches the side of say adult social care, or funding SEND for kids at school, or any service to be honest. Don't park badly, simple, you won't get a ticket them
Agree with the sentiment - its an easily avoided fee (ULEZ less so).
We are of course digressing from ULEZ here but I do think local authorities sometimes are not helping the local high street with relatively expensive short term parking that doesn't attract people to use the smaller / independent shops. That seems a balance not considered.
Very much agree. I think many people refuse to go to the high street because they know they will have to pay to park, as opposed to going to an out-of-town shopping centre with free parking and probably a better selection of shops.
Been the case for the last 20 years at least, somewhere like Bluewater has obliterated high streets, free all day parking and all the decent shops. Local councils will give all the right platitudes about saving the high street but when it comes to actions like free parking if validated by a local purchase, they show they are not THAT interested in helping the high street
Bluewater depends on and encourages car use. Yet last time I was there it looked like it was dying on its arse, possibly because of the high prices there and the explosion of home deliveries in recent years. Then again Westfield in Stratford is pretty busy but has good public transport services. In terms of high streets it is a different problem. They might be helped by increased bus use and more people having those personal shopping trollies. More likely is they get reduced further, local supermarkets, betting shops and charity shops and fast food remaining. Possibly some non chain independent shops. There is a lot of opportunity to tackle the housing crisis in unused ex-shops in high streets. I certainly don’t believe car use should be banned, but nudge measures can help people look for alternatives. I live in zone 3 so I may not fully appreciate the problems of those who are more cut off.
Bluewater depends on and encourages car use. Yet last time I was there it looked like it was dying on its arse, possibly because of the high prices there and the explosion of home deliveries in recent years. Then again Westfield in Stratford is pretty busy but has good public transport services. In terms of high streets it is a different problem. They might be helped by increased bus use and more people having those personal shopping trollies. More likely is they get reduced further, local supermarkets, betting shops and charity shops and fast food remaining. Possibly some non chain independent shops. There is a lot of opportunity to tackle the housing crisis in unused ex-shops in high streets. I certainly don’t believe car use should be banned, but nudge measures can help people look for alternatives. I live in zone 3 so I may not fully appreciate the problems of those who are more cut off.
You have to pay to park in Westfield in Stratford.
Less than a third of van owners and less than half of car owners who applied for money from the Ultra Low Emission Zone (Ulez) scrappage fund have been successful, figures show. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68153619
Bluewater depends on and encourages car use. Yet last time I was there it looked like it was dying on its arse, possibly because of the high prices there and the explosion of home deliveries in recent years. Then again Westfield in Stratford is pretty busy but has good public transport services. In terms of high streets it is a different problem. They might be helped by increased bus use and more people having those personal shopping trollies. More likely is they get reduced further, local supermarkets, betting shops and charity shops and fast food remaining. Possibly some non chain independent shops. There is a lot of opportunity to tackle the housing crisis in unused ex-shops in high streets. I certainly don’t believe car use should be banned, but nudge measures can help people look for alternatives. I live in zone 3 so I may not fully appreciate the problems of those who are more cut off.
You have to pay to park in Westfield in Stratford.
I mentioned Westfield in Stratford because it doesn’t depend on car use. Whereas Bluewater does.
The ULEZ cameras at the Danson interchange have been cut down again, the second time since the beginning of December. I see there is a camera on Northdown rd in Welling, it’s been there awhile, probably because it’s off the beaten track.
Just seen a news item about pavement parking. There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land. Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do. If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians. I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
LOL!
Pavement parking has been illegal in London since 1974! Local authorities can make exemptions and often do - you'll will see areas around Charlton where the exemptions apply. And many local authorities do already penalise motorists who park on the pavement where they are not allowed to do so.
All that said, If it wasn't already illegal, Khan would no doubt introduce a ban so he could collect the fines. Got to pay for the £30 million he found down the back of another sofa to buy the tube drivers off from striking!
When I was at Thorntree, my mum was on the parents / governors association (or whatever its called) and organised a lot of the jumble sales and fates at the school (remember the cowbow reenactment shows?) . She was also one of the few members who called for, and succeeded in, getting those bollards in place on the pavement outside the school, much to a few of the locals dissatisfaction. Pretty sure they're still there now?
Post on the other ULEZ thread posted across to this one, not least because I'm amazed at how few people realise that Khan and his officials are working on intoducing a pay per mile charging scheme in London.
Does anyone know if the ulez cameras will be the same ones used for project detroit?
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
Sadiq Khan investing £150m in ‘secret’ technology that could deliver
pay-per-mile road charging
London
Mayor employing 157 staff on TfL scheme amid claims he is stepping up war on
motorists
Sadiq Khan is investing £150 million on a
“secret” technology project capable of charging motorists a pay-per-mile road
tax, The Telegraph can reveal.
The scheme, called
Project Detroit, was set up by Transport for London (TfL) to create a “more
sophisticated… new core technology platform for road-user charging”.
A series of
Freedom of Information (FoI) requests show 157 staff are now working solely on
the scheme, with some engineers being paid more than £100,000 a year.
In total £21
million has already been spent on the project, which started in 2021, but the
“platform has an estimated final cost of between £130 million to £150 million”.
But
Conservatives at City Hall claim Project Detroit, which is creating a single
“road user charging” platform for the congestion charge, Ultra Low Emission zone (Ulez) and Low
Emission Zone, could be used to introduce a charge based on the distance driven
in cars within London.
One FoI response
from TFL says: “The Detroit platform has the capability to be extended and we
will be looking to build the system flexibly so that other forms of charging
based on distance, vehicle type, etc could be catered for if a decision was
made in future to do so.”
In 2018, the
mayor’s Transport Strategy said an “integrated pay-per-mile charge could
replace pre-existing schemes”, such as the congestion charge.
However, the
furore over the expansion of Ulez and claims Labour is waging a “war on
motorists” saw the mayor recently insist he would not introduce a pay-per-mile
tax on cars in the capital.
Third term
Peter Fortune,
the Conservative London Assembly Member for Bexley and Bromley, insisted that
Project Detroit paves the way for pay-per-mile charging.
“Sadiq Khan can
deny it all he wants but it’s pretty clear he plans to introduce pay-per-mile
road-user charges for every motorist if he wins a third term,” he said.
“He has a history
of saying one thing and doing the opposite. Remember he told us he wouldn’t
expand Ulez, then did precisely that.
“Sadiq
Khan relies on road-user charges to plug the black hole in TfL finances.Motorists will pay TfL one billion in ULEZ and other road user charges this year
“As the number of
non-Ulez compliant vehicles inevitably falls, he’ll need to find new sources of
revenue. He recently confirmed plans to charge motorists at least £123 million
annually from 2025 for using the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels.
TfL income
“Pay-per-mile is
next in providing a steady source of income for TfL.
“He has confirmed
TfL is developing new technology to integrate Ulez, congestion and other
charges into a single payment. Charging motorists for each mile they drive
won’t be difficult once this technology is in place.”
The latest FoI
responses from TfL show how 41 of the 157 staff dedicated to the scheme are
permanent. Of those, three are Band 4 employees earning between £76,000 and
£111,800, a further 33 are in Band 3 paid between £58,300 and £85,8000, while
five are on Band 2 wages, earning between £51,000 and £75,700. Meanwhile, 89
are “third-party consultants”.
The number of
staff working on the scheme, begun in 2021, has increased from 97 in December
2022 to its current 157.
Ruled out
Mr Fortune added:
“I know the team includes experts working on a pay-per-mile road-user charging
scheme. It’s a very secretive project. I asked to visit the project team last
year. I’m still waiting for an invite. ”
Asked to release
“any correspondence sent to the mayor” regarding Project Detroit, TfL’s FoI
team replied: “We do not hold any correspondence sent to the mayor during the
requested period in which Project Detroit is referred to.”
A TfL spokesperson
said: “Any work carried out or staff hired as part of Project Detroit has been
in relation to TfL’s existing road-user charging schemes.
“This was part of
TfL’s wider work to bring in-house the currently outsourced system for which
the contract expires in 2026.
“Pay-per-mile
charging has been ruled out by the mayor and no such scheme is on the table or
being developed.”
By the way, ignore the bit about scheme having been ruled out. I spent a lifetime as a civil servant seeing such things (indeed sometimes writing them!) only for 6 months later seeing that conditions had now changed and although there were no plans at the time we said it, there are now because of those changed conditions!
Post on the other ULEZ thread posted across to this one, not least because I'm amazed at how few people realise that Khan and his officials are working on intoducing a pay per mile charging scheme in London.
Does anyone know if the ulez cameras will be the same ones used for project detroit?
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
You have been warned!
You mention ULEZ being a Trojan Horse for road pricing. I asked on the other thread if when this road pricing malarkey comes in, will that mean polluting vehicles will be let back in as it were, treated like every other vehicle?
Post on the other ULEZ thread posted across to this one, not least because I'm amazed at how few people realise that Khan and his officials are working on intoducing a pay per mile charging scheme in London.
Does anyone know if the ulez cameras will be the same ones used for project detroit?
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
You have been warned!
You mention ULEZ being a Trojan Horse for road pricing. I asked on the other thread if when this road pricing malarkey comes in, will that mean polluting vehicles will be let back in as it were, treated like every other vehicle?
ULEZ was a trojan horse because you need a ring of cameras to introduce road pricing. TfL now have them.
As regards your question, polluting vehicles will continue to be able to be used if, as now, the owners pay ULEZ charge as currently happens. (Although see below)
But in addition they will also have to pay a pay per mile charge.
The research that is going on could lead to a highly sophisticated charging system. So, for example, anyone driving a non-compliant ULEZ vehicle or a SUV could be charged more per mile than someone driving a small electric car.
As I say, I accept road pricing is probably the long term solution to government revenue declining as cleaner vehicles become the norm (although zero emission vehicles will start to pay VED in 2025). But imposing this charges on top of existing Fuel Duty and VED charges doesn't seem fair to me.
Post on the other ULEZ thread posted across to this one, not least because I'm amazed at how few people realise that Khan and his officials are working on intoducing a pay per mile charging scheme in London.
Does anyone know if the ulez cameras will be the same ones used for project detroit?
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
You have been warned!
You mention ULEZ being a Trojan Horse for road pricing. I asked on the other thread if when this road pricing malarkey comes in, will that mean polluting vehicles will be let back in as it were, treated like every other vehicle?
ULEZ was a trojan horse because you need a ring of cameras to introduce road pricing. TfL now have them.
As regards your question, polluting vehicles will continue to be able to be used if, as now, the owners pay ULEZ charge as currently happens. (Although see below)
But in addition they will also have to pay a pay per mile charge.
The research that is going on could lead to a highly sophisticated charging system. So, for example, anyone driving a non-compliant ULEZ vehicle or a SUV could be charged more per mile than someone driving a small electric car.
As I say, I accept road pricing is probably the long term solution to government revenue declining as cleaner vehicles become the norm (although zero emission vehicles will start to pay VED in 2025). But imposing this charges on top of existing Fuel Duty and VED charges doesn't seem fair to me.
From your answer you seem to be saying the ULEZ scheme and Road pricing are two different things. I take your point about the camera infrastructure possibly having dual purposes. I thought however Road pricing will have to have more intensive coverage. For example I live inside the South Circular. If I get into my Ford Fiesta and drive to the big shopping complex at Charlton, and then drive home, are you suggesting there will be enough cameras to track me? I know all the back doubles.
Post on the other ULEZ thread posted across to this one, not least because I'm amazed at how few people realise that Khan and his officials are working on intoducing a pay per mile charging scheme in London.
Does anyone know if the ulez cameras will be the same ones used for project detroit?
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
You have been warned!
You mention ULEZ being a Trojan Horse for road pricing. I asked on the other thread if when this road pricing malarkey comes in, will that mean polluting vehicles will be let back in as it were, treated like every other vehicle?
ULEZ was a trojan horse because you need a ring of cameras to introduce road pricing. TfL now have them.
As regards your question, polluting vehicles will continue to be able to be used if, as now, the owners pay ULEZ charge as currently happens. (Although see below)
But in addition they will also have to pay a pay per mile charge.
The research that is going on could lead to a highly sophisticated charging system. So, for example, anyone driving a non-compliant ULEZ vehicle or a SUV could be charged more per mile than someone driving a small electric car.
As I say, I accept road pricing is probably the long term solution to government revenue declining as cleaner vehicles become the norm (although zero emission vehicles will start to pay VED in 2025). But imposing this charges on top of existing Fuel Duty and VED charges doesn't seem fair to me.
From your answer you seem to be saying the ULEZ scheme and Road pricing are two different things. I take your point about the camera infrastructure possibly having dual purposes. I thought however Road pricing will have to have more intensive coverage. For example I live inside the South Circular. If I get into my Ford Fiesta and drive to the big shopping complex at Charlton, and then drive home, are you suggesting there will be enough cameras to track me? I know all the back doubles.
You won't be tracked purely by cameras for road pricing purposes. They are there, if you like, to enforce it.
You will actually also need to have some sort of "tracker" installed in your car. I'll be honest and say I don't know for certain what technology is under consideration but I do know that TfL were looking at having an app that you would have to install on your smart phone and turn on when you start driving. Anyone who didn't would, I assume, be caught by the cameras.
The technology for all this sounds futuristic but it's not actually as road pricing schemes already exist throughout the world.
Comments
I'm against cutting down ULEZ cameras as you aren't going to beat the resources of a government.
As for cutting down traffic lights, they deserve GBH charges for anyone hurt in crashes as a consequence.
Absolute arseholes.
Must be 3 sets within walking distance of me right now, and a load more in the surrounding area.
There was a woman with a help dog in Edinburgh who couldn’t get around, let alone people with buggy’s and prams, and there were photographs of such parking across the land.
Edinburgh bring in a £100 fine from today. Made me wonder if it is a cynical anti motorist exercise aimed at bringing in money, or the actual right thing to do.
If enforced fines were introduced in London many would frame it as a money grab by Sadiq Khan, and probably pay no heed to the struggling pedestrians.
I believe ULEZ is about a move towards cleaner air, not a revenue collecting exercise. As such cleaner air is the right thing to aim for.
Pavement parking has been illegal in London since 1974! Local authorities can make exemptions and often do - you'll will see areas around Charlton where the exemptions apply. And many local authorities do already penalise motorists who park on the pavement where they are not allowed to do so.
All that said, If it wasn't already illegal, Khan would no doubt introduce a ban so he could collect the fines. Got to pay for the £30 million he found down the back of another sofa to buy the tube drivers off from striking!
Not to raise money.
Not bad work. And sure to go up with all the new parking restrictions around the ground!
We are of course digressing from ULEZ here but I do think local authorities sometimes are not helping the local high street with relatively expensive short term parking that doesn't attract people to use the smaller / independent shops. That seems a balance not considered.
Yet last time I was there it looked like it was dying on its arse, possibly because of the high prices there and the explosion of home deliveries in recent years.
Then again Westfield in Stratford is pretty busy but has good public transport services.
In terms of high streets it is a different problem. They might be helped by increased bus use and more people having those personal shopping trollies.
More likely is they get reduced further, local supermarkets, betting shops and charity shops and fast food remaining. Possibly some non chain independent shops.
There is a lot of opportunity to tackle the housing crisis in unused ex-shops in high streets.
I certainly don’t believe car use should be banned, but nudge measures can help people look for alternatives.
I live in zone 3 so I may not fully appreciate the problems of those who are more cut off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68153619
... Police are looking for tree fellas.
Yes, that's my understanding.
This isn't the last ULEZ thread we were commenting on but on that one, I told you that ULEZ was the trojan house that Khan was using to introduce road pricing in London. A few people needless to say LOL but I knew for a fact a huge amount of work was going on in TFL on road pricing and the ULEZ cameras were the first step in the process.
There was a big article in the Telegraph recently confirming this work. Its called project Detroit as you say above.
Road pricing is probably the way road taxation will go as the amount of Fuel Duty collected by the government falls off a cliff over coming years. But most experts in the field argue that road pricing charges should be instead of the existing taxes.
But Khan can only make this pricing additional to existing taxation as he doesn't control national taxation.
So it's simple. If Khan is reelected, you will pay for every mile you drive in London if he has his way. And this will be additional to the existing VED and Fuel Duty you are already paying.
You have been warned!
Sadiq Khan investing £150m in ‘secret’ technology that could deliver pay-per-mile road charging
London Mayor employing 157 staff on TfL scheme amid claims he is stepping up war on motorists
Sadiq Khan is investing £150 million on a “secret” technology project capable of charging motorists a pay-per-mile road tax, The Telegraph can reveal.
The scheme, called Project Detroit, was set up by Transport for London (TfL) to create a “more sophisticated… new core technology platform for road-user charging”.
A series of Freedom of Information (FoI) requests show 157 staff are now working solely on the scheme, with some engineers being paid more than £100,000 a year.
In total £21 million has already been spent on the project, which started in 2021, but the “platform has an estimated final cost of between £130 million to £150 million”.
But Conservatives at City Hall claim Project Detroit, which is creating a single “road user charging” platform for the congestion charge, Ultra Low Emission zone (Ulez) and Low Emission Zone, could be used to introduce a charge based on the distance driven in cars within London.
One FoI response from TFL says: “The Detroit platform has the capability to be extended and we will be looking to build the system flexibly so that other forms of charging based on distance, vehicle type, etc could be catered for if a decision was made in future to do so.”
In 2018, the mayor’s Transport Strategy said an “integrated pay-per-mile charge could replace pre-existing schemes”, such as the congestion charge.
However, the furore over the expansion of Ulez and claims Labour is waging a “war on motorists” saw the mayor recently insist he would not introduce a pay-per-mile tax on cars in the capital.
Third term
Peter Fortune, the Conservative London Assembly Member for Bexley and Bromley, insisted that Project Detroit paves the way for pay-per-mile charging.
“Sadiq Khan can deny it all he wants but it’s pretty clear he plans to introduce pay-per-mile road-user charges for every motorist if he wins a third term,” he said.
“He has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite. Remember he told us he wouldn’t expand Ulez, then did precisely that.
“Sadiq Khan relies on road-user charges to plug the black hole in TfL finances.Motorists will pay TfL one billion in ULEZ and other road user charges this year
“As the number of non-Ulez compliant vehicles inevitably falls, he’ll need to find new sources of revenue. He recently confirmed plans to charge motorists at least £123 million annually from 2025 for using the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels.
TfL income
“Pay-per-mile is next in providing a steady source of income for TfL.
“He has confirmed TfL is developing new technology to integrate Ulez, congestion and other charges into a single payment. Charging motorists for each mile they drive won’t be difficult once this technology is in place.”
The latest FoI responses from TfL show how 41 of the 157 staff dedicated to the scheme are permanent. Of those, three are Band 4 employees earning between £76,000 and £111,800, a further 33 are in Band 3 paid between £58,300 and £85,8000, while five are on Band 2 wages, earning between £51,000 and £75,700. Meanwhile, 89 are “third-party consultants”.
The number of staff working on the scheme, begun in 2021, has increased from 97 in December 2022 to its current 157.
Ruled out
Mr Fortune added: “I know the team includes experts working on a pay-per-mile road-user charging scheme. It’s a very secretive project. I asked to visit the project team last year. I’m still waiting for an invite. ”
Asked to release “any correspondence sent to the mayor” regarding Project Detroit, TfL’s FoI team replied: “We do not hold any correspondence sent to the mayor during the requested period in which Project Detroit is referred to.”
A TfL spokesperson said: “Any work carried out or staff hired as part of Project Detroit has been in relation to TfL’s existing road-user charging schemes.
“This was part of TfL’s wider work to bring in-house the currently outsourced system for which the contract expires in 2026.
“Pay-per-mile charging has been ruled out by the mayor and no such scheme is on the table or being developed.”
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By the way, ignore the bit about scheme having been ruled out. I spent a lifetime as a civil servant seeing such things (indeed sometimes writing them!) only for 6 months later seeing that conditions had now changed and although there were no plans at the time we said it, there are now because of those changed conditions!I asked on the other thread if when this road pricing malarkey comes in, will that mean polluting vehicles will be let back in as it were, treated like every other vehicle?
As regards your question, polluting vehicles will continue to be able to be used if, as now, the owners pay ULEZ charge as currently happens. (Although see below)
But in addition they will also have to pay a pay per mile charge.
The research that is going on could lead to a highly sophisticated charging system. So, for example, anyone driving a non-compliant ULEZ vehicle or a SUV could be charged more per mile than someone driving a small electric car.
As I say, I accept road pricing is probably the long term solution to government revenue declining as cleaner vehicles become the norm (although zero emission vehicles will start to pay VED in 2025). But imposing this charges on top of existing Fuel Duty and VED charges doesn't seem fair to me.
I take your point about the camera infrastructure possibly having dual purposes.
I thought however Road pricing will have to have more intensive coverage.
For example I live inside the South Circular. If I get into my Ford Fiesta and drive to the big shopping complex at Charlton, and then drive home, are you suggesting there will be enough cameras to track me? I know all the back doubles.
You will actually also need to have some sort of "tracker" installed in your car. I'll be honest and say I don't know for certain what technology is under consideration but I do know that TfL were looking at having an app that you would have to install on your smart phone and turn on when you start driving. Anyone who didn't would, I assume, be caught by the cameras.
The technology for all this sounds futuristic but it's not actually as road pricing schemes already exist throughout the world.